a good sunday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. the place for politics. here's what's happening right now. >> syria has become a powder keg for the region. >> assad needs to be removed. >> no-fly zone and other involvement may lead to the slipry slope that others talked about. >> questioning the strategy, fresh reaction to u.s. plans to arm syria's rebels. meanwhile, president obama travels tonight to the g-8 summit to talk about what's happening in syria. >> ultimately it's hard to see how nsa can be justified legally or morally. >> still in hiding, hundreds rally to support the man who revealed the u.s. surveillance program. news breaks that edward snowden may seek shelter in china.

will he spill secrets to beijing. plus, why now, 4-year-old mad elaine mccann was seen six years ago. scotland guard is preparing to launch an investigation into her disappearance for the first time. we'll get to all those stories in just a moment. but first, florida republican marco rubio part of the group of eight senators who drew up the new immigration bill told abc this morning legislation will probably have to change. >> i think it's an excellent starting point. i think 95%, 96% of the bill is in perfect shape and ready to go. this is how the legislative process is supposed to work. you offer an idea, and the input from these criticisms or observations come out. new ideas about how to make it better. of course, you can't ignore that. >> north korea today proposed high-level talks with the united states to, quote, secure peace

and stability in the region. a white house statement said talks are desirable, but, quote, we will judge north korea by its actions, and not its words, and look forward to seeing steps north korea is ready to abide by its commitments and obligations. president obama heading to belfast, ireland tonight, where he will meet with leaders of the g-8 summit. the president's decision to arm the syrian rebels will undoubtly top the agenda there. one topic the president hopes he can put in the trip to europe, the controversy over the federal government's phone and internet surveillance programs. let's get right to our sunday brain trust. ed o'keefe is the congressional reporter for the "washington post." matt welch, editor and chief at reason magazine. good sunday to all of you.

esther, let's start with you. americans have no need to worry about their privacy being come proo mized by the nsa surveillance plan, take a listen. >> it is absolutely overseen by the legislature, the judicial branch and executive branch, has lots of protections built in. you can see just the number of cases where we've actually stopped a plot. i think americans will come to a different conclusion that all the misleading rhetoric i've heard over the last few weeks. >> how convinced are you that the public's privacy is not being compromised? >> i think the trouble is, we have a situation right now where when it comes to the american public's confidence in congress, it's at an all-time low. the idea that they would necessarily buy politicians telling them they have nothing to fear, is not an argument they're going to accept. however, the polls show when it comes to national security issues, when that reasoning is invoked for any particular policy, it changes the way that the american public thinks about whatever that policy is.

i think it's kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other. but i don't think it will be enough to simply say, we don't have enough to worry about. not in this climate and not at this time. >> matt, one of the things that i found most interesting this morning from all the sunday shows, former vice president dick cheney saying if we had had this, 9/11 might not happen. do you buy that? >> no, not for a second. he's self-interested why 9/11 wouldn't happen. but it did happen on dick cheney and george bush's watch. dick cheney created our modern -- along with donald rumsfeld -- created the state, that barack obama has adopted since becoming president. of course he's going to support this. mike rogers' comments saying we have absolute oversight is absolute gor badge. the intelligence committee in congress are the only people who have any oversight over it.

the rest of congress doesn't. the fisa courts are a rubber stamp. wee are just finding out now why we do not live in a free country. >> matt, i want to play something else that dick cheney said this morning. this is dick cheney on fox this morning. he was asked whether snowden might be a spy. >> okay. >> i'm deeply suspicious obviously, because he went to china. that's not a place where you would ordinarily want to go if you're interested in freedom and liberty and so forth. it raises questions whether or not he had that kind of connection before he did this. >> now, i'm not sure, o'keefe, with whom this raises legitimate questions. but what do we know about edward snowden? what do we know about his motivations at this point? >> well, we know a lot has been written about him in the last week since he was revealed. i think the biggest piece of the puzzle at this point is how did he go from being a high school dropout, a guy who couldn't get a job at first, to working for

army special forces, to going to the cia, to ending up in hawaii, and working for hamilton, and somehow getting his hands on this information. cheney isn't the only one who believes there might be more suspicious connection to china. lawmakers have asked the nsa, the fbi to look into that possibility. that perhaps he was connected to them. that perhaps he wasn't acting alone, or acting at the behest of the chinese government. there's no reason to believe yet that that is the case, but the question is out there considering the fact he went there. but he said he was concerned about this situation, he felt the american public deserved to know about it, and that's why he came forward. beyond that, his motivations aren't entirely clear. >> what were you about to say? >> can we get off this high school dropout thing for once? he was a highly paid systems administrator, described as being very talented at that work. you're going to get paid, okay? so this sort of like, he must be some kind of crazed loner out there.

enough with it. it's really not about him ultimately, it's about what he revealed. we'll figure it out in the wash what kind of human being he is. but know up until that moment, he's going to get trashed by everybody in government, and the establishment and media in washington. >> we should really be wary of this policy of deflection, the idea that the electors look at this. and the fact that this program exists and the different things it can be used for. there's a powerful piece in "the nation" this week by john nichols talking specifically about the way data mining is being used by politicians, as well as corporations in terms of transforming the democracy that we have. and interfering and impacting our campaigns, when it comes to elections. so the idea that it's all about snowden is really about the politics of deflection. we should not allow ourselves to be carried away by the personality. stay focused on the nsa and the program that was created and the way it's invading americans' lives. >> this program we've been

talking about this week, this is one of the few things that seems to have united washington, d.c., by and large. folks on both sides, john boehner said that he thought snowden was a traitor, nancy pelosi said she thinks snowden should be prosecuted. and o'keefe, why is it that congressional leaders are basically supporting this surveillance program by and large? >> because they have been led to believe by the nsa, by the obama administration, the bush administration previously that these programs have helped defeat, or thwart terrorist attacks that may have occurred. they see it as a necessary thing. certainly i think mostly, you know, certain democrats, certain republicans in congress -- >> one notable exception. >> among leaders who get regular briefings from the nsa and get some sense of how this works, i think matt's right, they don't know everything, but they are kept in the loop, that they've

been led to believe this program actually works and is being properly monitored not only by the executive branch, but by congress and these federal judges. i think part of the reason there was confusion in the beginning and there was anger about this is because lawmakers who don't sit on the intelligence committees, or lawmakers who aren't in leadership weren't fully aware of the scope of this project. and in many cases, had the opportunities to come forward and learn a little more about it. dianne feinstein was clear from the beginning that senators at least had been given opportunities to come forward and learn about it, and they didn't necessarily. and this week only 47 of them showed up at a briefing. the rest of them were on flights going home to their home states. they can only be so upset if they don't want to necessarily sit through and do their homework and learn more about it. >> stand by. you'll join us again in a few moments to talk about father's day and the changing face of the

american family as well. we'll be back with you in a few minutes. president obama's decision to arm syrian rebels, the other big story on this sunday, sparking a great deal of controversy. some lawmakers are questioning the strategy. they want the united states to do even more to help the rebels topple the regime of syrian president of bashar al assad. the president's decision to arm the rebels comes on the heels of key victories by the forces of syria's president, bashar al assad. a columnist writing in part, over the last several months vast military assistance from iran and hezbollah has accelerated the killing and shifd the military balance in assad's favor. how does the introduction of foreign forces change the nature of the conflict, or does it change it in any way, shape or form at all? >> well, you have troops of hezbollah, people that are very

experienced in guerrilla war, exercising their power there. and tipping the balance actually to where it's assad, not only them, we have iranians, iraqis that have been operating during the war for a long time in fallujah, and al sirria, and that's made a huge difference. we're realizing not only assad is winning, winning not only in damascus, but winning in a major city. if he managed to take hezbollah back, it's done for the free syrian army. for now, we try to arm the rebels with small weapons that made them not lose the war, but didn't make them win the war. also because we don't trust them. let's be honest, the people that are running the free syrian armies, they have one agenda, it's not a democratic agenda, it's about power and suni supremacy. who are helping the supremes are

chicagoi shiites. so what we're witnessing is a sectarian war and now we're involved in that war, and that war will become, if we become engaged, our war. so we need to be aware that the blowback from that war will be worse than the iraqi war. >> senator lindsey graham this morning criticized the obama administration on the policy. >> our policies are not working. ak-47s will not neutralize the advantage that assad has over the rebels. we need to do more. we need to create a no-fly zone to neutralize the assad air power. >> no-fly zone is not going to happen in syria. i think we all know that. what are our options? diplomatically, militarily? >> well, lindsey graham also said that the end game of that is to get rid of assad. if that's the end game, we lost the war. because this war will continue whether assad will live or not

live. this war will outlive him and carry on. as i said before, it's about power. so we need to push both sides, we need to negotiate with russians and chinese, and force them to put the syrians on the table, with a free syrian army, and find a way to share power like lebanon, where the prime minister is always suni, the president is always christian, and the president of the parliament is shiite. that is the only way out. because there's no alternatives. but what we are doing, and the hard-core part of our foreign policy is becoming mill tarrized. so we deploy everything and we left everything, only to a military option. and that in the end won't work. it didn't work in afghanistan, it did not work in iraq, and it will not work in syria. we need to understand that we need to get everybody at the table and give them something. both sides are fighting for

their lives. if one side will win, the other side will be slaughtered and the other side will win, the shiites will be slaughtered. coming up, round two, should military sex assault cases continue to be handled within the ranks. the senate said yes this week. but that fight seems far from over. also, some surprising security at the g-8 summit. wait until you hear the measures secret service is taking to protect. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d to support strong bones. and the brand most recommended by... my doctor. my gynecologist. my pharmacist. citracal. citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. doctors trust citracal. to accept less and less in the name of style and sophistication. but to us, less isn't more. more is more. abundant space, available leading-edge technology,

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the new york senator promises to revive her measure to take military sexual assault cases out of the chain of command in the coming months. last week her plan was stopped in its tracks by members of her own party. including michigan senator carl

levin. the plan was voted down in committee 17-0. yesterday on this show, one of our brain trusts, a rape ser vifr herself, had this message for senator levin. >> senator, why have you taken the side of the rapists? there is plenty of evidence that shows that the status quo is unacceptable and victims are revictimized by a process that sweeps their rapes under the rug. >> msnbc contributor, also a former marine as well. you really aren't a former marine. once a marine, always a marine. >> semper fi. >> good to see you. your general reaction to that vote in committee. >> i think it was actually the most disappointing thing that i had ever seen. in the dark of the night senator charles levin, joined by others, pulled out the idea that we would strip away the right of commanding officers to have judicial discretion to set aside

verdicts, to decide if there's going to be an investigation at all, decide if that woman is going to get the appropriate support that she needs after, or that man, after they've been raped as a military soldier. so i think there are real issues with this. i had even more issues with senator clair mccaskill who joined senator levin in this. i just have to say i'm sorely disappointed by it all. >> i want to play for our viewers senator levin's explanation, if you will, from that committee hearing on wednesday. take a listen. >> i do not support removing the authority of commanders to prosecute sexual assault cases, and putting that decision in the hands of military lawyers outside of the chain of command. as the personnel subcommittee provision would do. i believe that doing so would weaken our response to sexual assault, and actually make it less likely that sexual assaults

would be prosecuted. >> goldy, explain to me, explain to our viewers as well, why is it so important for the military to keep this inside the chain of command? >> well, first of all, this is something that came up out of the revolutionary war when commanders did not have judges or other military police, or other people around who could help him or her -- well, him at the time, discipline their forces. so they did need absolute control. if one has one more stripe than you, you have to do exactly what they say, if it is a lawful order. that means more in terms of troop readiness. at the end of the day, we now have courts, we now have military lawyers. we have expanded military police force and investigators. we have the resources that we need. actually, this provision said that any law that was not exclusively a military law, and that was servable by one or more years in civilian jail should be removed from civilian command.

you can't get more deplorable than the current rate of prosecution and conviction and punishment than there is now in terms of military sexual assault. you can't get any worse than that. i don't understand what senator carl levin is talking about when he says moving it outside of the chain of command could damage the track record we already have. we have no track record here. >> marine and msnbc contributor, goldy, always good to see you. >> thanks for having me. up next, face to face with a 50,000-pound wild animal. >> it went through my mind, yeah, i might not be able to do it dpagain. i did it. it was incredible. >> that's the florida teenager who took into the gulf and took a ride on a whale shark. right, a whale shark. how the shark could have actually been hurt. all business purchases.

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lebron james is certainly the greatest player in the world right now. one of the greatest players of all-time. i think by the time his career is over, that will be evident to all. i expect him to win. i predicted they would win this series in six games. i stick by that prediction. they'll win tonight in san antonio and wrap up the series in miami. >> you're serious. biased florida senator playing prognosticator this morning. here's one from the -- another wacky weird thing somebody said putin did. russian president vladimir putin has been accused of, get this, stealing a super bowl ring from new england patriots owner robert craft. craft told told attendees he showed putin the ring, then he

tries it on and puts it in his pocket and strolls out with the kgb. putin contends the ring is a gift and it's safely tucked away from the kremlin library. if you think putin's story is peculiar, listen to this one. do you know that cat? he'll soon be on buzz feed. he's running for mayor of halapa mexico. they put morris the cat up with the slogan of halapa without rex. by rex, they mean politicians. they say a cat is just as good as their corrupt politicians. if he wins, he claims to do what other politicians do, sleep and do nothing. they are doing a whole lot more in another ireland as they prepare for the g-8 summit. the secret service is going the extra mile to make sure president obama is safe. they're going in tractors.

secret service will try to blend in with the locals by posing as farmers. locals say it won't be hard to recognize them, though, because their tractors are new and shiny. new deflts in developments in the search for mad elaine mccann. why it's taken six years. we'll go overseas for that. the george zimmerman trial back hearing, the first week ended with nearly 100 jurors being dismissed. how tough will it be to find an impartial panel. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever.

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i'm going to dream about that steak. i'm going to dream about that tiramisu. what a night, huh? but, um, can the test drive be over now? head back to the dealership? oh, yeah. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. [ wife ] sorry. [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com today. firefighters out west are still fighting colorado's most destructive wildfire ever. so far, it's burned almost 15,000 acres. destroyed nearly 500 homes and forced tens of thousands to evacuate. right now, a little more half that fire has been contained. i'm craig melvin. good sunday morning to you.

other top stories making news this afternoon. a story we continue to watch closely, in omaha, nebraska, three people, including a gunman, were killed in a shooting spree there yesterday. police killed the gunman. two other victims are critically injured. investigators are looking into a motive at this particular point. we'll update you on this story as we learn more. overseas, violent clashes in turkey this weekend. tensions escalated last night when they drove protesters out of the park firing tear gas into the crowds there. meanwhile today the turkish prime minister is holding his own mass rallies with supporters. nelson man del a is making, quote, sustained improvement. that word from the south african president. the 93-year-old has been in the hospital a little more than a week now. he's recovering from a lung infection. and take a look at this, folks. a florida teenager goes for a wild ride this week on a shark. that's 19-year-old chris craze.

he was fishing in the gulf of mexico when a giant whale shark comes up to his boat. chris dives in, grabs the shark's fin and goes for a ride. not surprisingly, marine biologists discourage shark riding. they say people can get injured. but sharks can, too. apparently human contact can be quite harmful to the shark's skins. we're pleased to report that neither chris nor the shark were hurt. the big story out of hollywood today, kim kardashian and kanye west welcomed a baby girl this weekend. the baby arrived early. 16 years from now, when there's that inevitable beef between blue ivy and spawn of kanye, i'm betting the bank of blue. for the record. good news for alex cobb, check that out. cobb was taken off the field last night when he was hit in the head with a baseball. he spent the night in the hospital. about you a spoken said cobb's tests came back normal.

cobb himself tweeted. can't thank everyone enough for the prayers. the only way for me to make it out of there okay. look forward to getting back out there. overseas now, london scotland yard is preparing to launch an official official investigation into the disappearance of madelayne mccain six years after she went missing in portugal. mandy, what's the latest? >> well, british police are hoping to follow up on major leads, from a case review that uncovered 20 possible suspects and dozens of new clues. after six years of anguish, wondering and waiting for news of their little girl, there's fresh hope for kate and jerry mccann. nbc news has learned that funding for a full investigation has been approved to allow british detectives to pursue new leads in the madelaine case.

they examined all the evidence. >> the metropolitan police have actually been looking into the portuguese investigation for a number of years now. and have come up with some leads, some suspects they don't think were investigated properly. >> reporter: mad elaine disappeared in 2007 on a family holiday to portugal. she went missing from the holiday apartment, while her parents ate at a nearby restaurant. despite a desperate search, an intense media coverage, there were few clues on where she was or who had taken her. madelaine would be 10 years old now. they were encouraged by the news of three american women missing for a decade but found alive in cleveland. scotland yard has yet to confirm the latest investigation into the case. but says it will be making an announcement soon. >> the british police, will they

be working in conjunction with the officials in portugal as well? >> yes. in fact, getting the portuguese police on site is going to be key for this new investigation to go ahead. the majority of the detective work really has to take place in portugal. technically, the british police would be working outside their jurisdiction. so without the help of the portuguese police, this new investigation could be pointless. >> all right. mandy clark from our bureau in london. mandy, thank you. back here, the george zimmerman murder trial. starting tomorrow. week two of jury selection begins. george zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of trayvon martin. he's pled not guilty, claiming self-defense this week. at least 26 more jurors will be questioned for the first time tomorrow. and then tuesday, they hope to proceed with round two. the ultimate goal, six jurors, four alternates. last week several potential jurors were questioned about

what they've learned about the case from the media. karen desoto, and again, we should note that george zimmerman has sued nbc universal, the parent company of this network for defamation. the company strongly denies his allegation. karen, let's start with you. here we are, last week, 200 people brought in throughout the week. 87 folks were dismissed. how hard is it going to be to whittle this -- to whittle these folks down with strong opinions? >> this is the questions before the questioning. so you have this preliminary questioning, and it's not hard to whittle. usually most jurors i've found are pretty honest and they'll tell you right out of the hop whether they have strong opinions. of course, those who are feigning strong opinions get off the case. but in this case many want to sit on the jury. so you have to be careful about that as well. >> i want to listen to this and

talk about it on the other side. >> the opinion that you formed, what was it? >> that george zimmerman should go home. >> in other words, you believe he's innocent? >> i do. >> you have not formed an opinion this time whether he's -- in terms of the guilt or innocence of mr. zimmerman, is that correct? >> um -- for my belief? >> yes, sir. >> nobody can take nobody's life. >> so how unusual are statements like those? >> not unusual at all. especially in a case with a lot of publicity, people read the paper, they watch television and have opinions. they've accepted some facts, maybe not all the facts. it's not uncommon for people to come to a conclusion without the benefit of what's going to be heard in open court. this is very common. what i'm happy about is these people are honest. they should not be on the jury if they've already pre-judged the case. it's helpful actually to the system. >> mark o'meara talked about the

dismissed juror friday. take a listen. >> the worst thing that can happen to us is that a juror has the predisposition, and they don't tell us about it. if you think about it, you know, that may have happened with one of the jurors who didn't quite make it through the system. but tried to. a juror like that, what we call a stealth juror, is unbelievably dangerous. not only to the case, but it's really devastating to the system. >> in this particular case, how real is the possibility that a stealth juror might be seated? >> very real. the more media hype, obviously there's going to be more people vying to try to get in there. especially people who are residents in the area. it's very, very dangerous because you could go through an entire case and it only takes one juror to hang it. >> how do you identify the stealth juror? >> it's very difficult to do that. you have to have a gut feeling. but number one, they may want to be famous, and maybe at the end

of the case, they want to make a movie, et cetera, et cetera. >> we found out the jury is also going to be sequestered during the trial. how is that going to affect the trial potentially? how is that also going to potentially affect the jurors? >> it's painful for jurors to have to be sequestered, away from your family and put in a position where you're not getting any information. it's really kind of disconcerting for them. also, you're more likely in a situation like that to lose jurors, because obviously some of them may not be able to take it. they'll miss their families. they may have health issues. so they may drop, which is very difficult, because if you run out of jurors, you can have a mistrial. >> you could have jurors with young children, jurors with elderly parents who can't be away from home for more than two or three weeks. >> were you surprised at all to find out they were going to sequester this particular jury? >> no. because obviously with the hype, and there's so much emotion in this case, obviously you would almost have to sequester them. >> on friday, jay, one juror who

was dismissed earlier in the week, was escorted out. he was given a citation for trespassing as well. i'm sure you know this. this particular juror posted a message on social media saying in part, quote, in sanford, and i can tell you this, justice is coming. how much of a concern is courtroom security in sanford, florida? >> very much so. before the jury selection, the threat is on the prosecution team, the defense team. the security is very intense. that's another rein for sequestration. the jurors can be easily watched while they're hearing the testimony and deliberating as opposed to all of those people going home every night and the sheriff's office having to worry about their safety. >> what kind of things are they going to be asked about in round two? >> anything i'm allowed to ask. it's so unusual, craig, a lot of the times when we pick juries, we're not allowed to ask a lot of questions at all. the fact that you're allowed to

voir dire them on anything you want, you start asking them, you know, personal but not so personal, whether you could figure out whether they're conservative or liberal, what newspapers do you read, what shows do you watch? what's your occupation? you know, married. things that would glean, or you'll be able to get a better sense of whether they're conservative and liberal and what their political views are. >> we'll be seeing lots of you over the next few months. thank you for your insight. >> thank you. same-sex marriage became legal in california five years ago. the new law was expected to create an economic boom, until later that year. it's today's flashback. i want to make things more secure.

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one month after the state supreme court struck down the ban on same-sex mortgage. at county courthouses across california, lines formed. along with the celebrations, there's concern in the gay community. a proposal that would amend the state constitution and ban gay marriage is on the november ballot. >> we believe that redefining marriage to include same-sex couples undermines the essence of what marriage is. >> reporter: there were scattered protests across california. two county clerk's offices announced they would no longer hold civil ceremonies and most couples like mark and darren will return to states that don't recognize their new status. >> whether texas recognizes it or not, it's still absolutely real. and legitimate and valid. >> reporter: it's being called the new summer of love in california. while debating some old taboos about who can say "i do." chris jansing, nbc news, los angeles. so that was five years ago today. at the same time, same-sex

couples celebrated their progress toward equality. there were those protest groups. they got their way months later in the form of prop 8, an amendment to the california state constitution that limits marriage to a man and a woman. but then that was challenged. and today we are, of course, waiting for the supreme court's decision on prop 8's constitutionality, which is expected by the end of the month, but could come as early as tomorrow. we are also waiting on another decision that relates to same-sex couples. the defensive marriage act that defines marriage between a man and a woman, and prevents same-sex marriages from receiving the same federal benefits as heterosexual marriages. those decisions could change our very definition of family in this country. some of this is very definitions are causing debate when it comes to race, sexual orientation, and even who's taking care of the kids. up next, the look at future american families on this

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the most powerful thing a person can do is say no. the most powerful moments of social resistance we've seen that have given birth to the greatest progress we've seen, are people who somehow, whether it's rosa parks in the bus, or striking worker on a picket line, people who have somehow found this inner courage and peace to be able to look power in the eye and say no, and when that courage is shown, everything afterwards changes.

all right. good sunday to you. we are back with the brain trust, esther down in d.c. for us congressional reporter for us for the washington post and editor in chief at "reason magazine", before we get into the father's day stuff, i want to pick up on the nsa surveillance plan. i feel like i cut you off. matt you were saying something about snowden and perhaps the mainstream's treatment of snowden as well. >> i think there's been, not everyone in the mainstream media of course, but i think there has been a concerted overfocus on him, motivations of him, discussions of, you know, my god, i got a ged instead after normal high school diploma. and part of that, i think, is washington closing ranks a little bit and especially when you consider the way that leaks normally happen.

they normally happen, leaked from a government, to the press, to make the government look good. this happens all the time. we don't talk about prosecuting people for treason or espionage or other things associated with that. he leaked something very important. we are having a conversation that is very overdue, and i'm thankful that he did. >> esther, we were talking about congress and the idea that members of congress are on the stick here and engaging in oversight. do you think that's happening by and large? >> clearly not. feinstein said, i didn't know enough about -- >> how does that happen? >> i think that's part of the importance of the conversation. the fact that congress is not in the loop means they can never argue we should not be concerned. we should not be fearful that this is not something that invades our privacy because they don't understand what it is happening. and part of their role is around oversight. and checking of those bodies. so the idea that we, the public,

should not be on the one hand expect to be informed and for me, it is not so much about who snowden is or isn't, but about to what extent did the government hide, seeks to hide, continues to hide and what does this mean for us as a democracy moving forward? >> this is a conversation that will continue. but i want to pivot. today is father's day and what a better day to look at changing role. there is a new poll that asks, what are the most important things a father should provide. 58% said morals and values. emotional support, 52%.

and 47% discipline and 41% say income. >> this speaks to the fact that you know, there is an eagerness to have fathers in familyes. there's been great discussion about the fact that, you know, the institution of father hood has taken a few hits. there is some hope that president obama might discuss it more as he comes into office and he held an event at the white house where he once again tal d talkedtalked about the importance of fathers. he mentioned the fact that his father wasn't around and he is trying to be a good one himself. it is interesting what society thinks right now. >> the traditional value is changing. same sex parents, multiracial, no longer a rarity in this family. there is this cheerios commercial we talked about a few times on this broadcast. running on national television. it showes a multiracial family.

a great deal of backlash, unfortunately, on-line. is it just a matter of time before we see commercials like this featuring same-sex couples like this in the country? >> i think the point about family is that there's always a gap between where the court lives and the kind of decisions that affect what is happening within the public versus the speed at which the public catches up to reality of that. that cheerios commercial for me, is in a way, a national conversation about how we feel about race. because the thing that is so interesting, this is cheerios in 2013. you go back to a loving family in virginia, that instituted the supreme court decision, that prohibited the interval dags of interracial marriage. that's what the american family looks like today.

same-sex marriage. that is what the american family looks like today. so, there is always this distance between elements of public opinion and how we are moving as society and the way the courts deal with that. so when he think about a family, there would have been a time 50 years ago, there would have been a check on the table and shift to emotional and moral support is a generation shift and becomes much more important to recognizing how people are shaped. >> before we get out of here, we want to throw pictures up. matt walsh, let me start with you and tell me about this guy, who is that guy? my taught me about baseball, didn't teach me about drinking beer. chose aerospace engineer.

hell of a guy. >> tell us about this guy quickly. >> that's jim o'keefe. a guy who always made me look good. helping me on my wedding day. good guy. my biggest fan. one of my best friends. watches loyally. though i know he is not watching right now because he is hanging out with my sisters in new york. >> tell me about this fellow. who is this guy? >> i'm a little emotional. >> that ain't my daddy. >> oh -- >> here we go. >> that is my daddy. >> that is quincy. god rest his soul. my pops was always in a three-piece suit. he would go to a corner store in three-piece suit. he taught me you didn't have to

abandon swagger for us issust n. >> thank you dad. happy father's day to you. >> karen finney standing by. disrupt up next. inst the wind. inst the wind. uphill. every day. we make money on saddles and tubes. but not on bikes. my margins are thinner than these tires. anything that gives me some breathing room makes a difference. membership helps make the most of your cashflow. i'm nelson gutierrez of strictly bicycles and my money works as hard as i do. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

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