bury that's for another show. >> another show. and cable news. >> it will be handled by someone else. ari melber, buddy of eliot spitzer gets tonight's last word. thank you. >> thank you. >> up next, "hardball" with chris matthews. who was trying for help? trayvon martin or george zimmerman? let's play some "hardball." good evening. i'm michael smerconish in for chris matthews. leading off tonight, day 20 of the trayvon martin murder trial. it's the first full day for george zimmerman's defense team, which say they could rest their case as early as wednesday. zimmerman is pleading not guilty to second-degree murder charges, citing self-defense. well, today the defense team called witness after witness, including trayvon's father, tracy martin, in an attempt to counter last week's dramatic testimony from trayvon's mother, sybrina fulton.

she told the court it was absolutely her son's voice yelling for help in the background of a neighbor's 911 call, but mr. martin previously said that it wasn't his son's voice. it was key testimony. at the heart of the issue whether or not zimmerman acted, as he claims, in self-defense. since the prosecution rested its case on friday, the defense has already called about a dozen witnesses, including zimmerman's mother, who said late friday that it was her son's voice on that tape, and not trayvon's. some ten witnesses took the stand today, and more are on the way. let's get to msnbc's craig melvin for the latest from the florida courthouse. craig? >> reporter: michael, in the past few minutes, something major has happened here. a short time ago, in fact, just a few moments ago, judge nelson has decided to allow the toxicology report in. we expect that the state will offer a witness tomorrow to speak to the toxicology report. just to give you some background

here, dr. bao, shiping bao testified on friday that at some point he changed his mind, not about whether there was actually marijuana in his trayvon martin's system, but whether that marijuana would have an effect on trayvon martin. that happened on friday. again, we do know that there was some marijuana in martin's system. the question that was just raised with judge nelson was, you know, whether the level of marijuana in his system would impair his behavior. and, again, just moments ago, judge nelson deciding that she is going to allow that toxicology report to be admitted into evidence, saying that if she were not to do that, it would be an irreversible error. so, again, a major development here. we should note here, obviously, the jury was not in the courtroom for any of this. there is another hearing underway right now, and this hearing is related to an

animation that the defense hopes to use. the state is objecting to the use of this animation. this is an animation that would show how this confrontation went down. the state says there are a number of problems with the animation, but among them, that it artificially depicts lighting conditions, lighting conditions there in that condo complex, and it's also, quote, based completely on approximations made by various witnesses. some of those approximations were turned around or changed once those witnesses took the stand. so, again, jury not in the courtroom, but to one semi -important hearing, but with regards to the toxicology report, again, a very important hearing. because judge nelson earlier ruled that the toxicology report would not be admitted, would not be allowed into opening statements, but left the door open to the fact that it could be reviewed later on in the

case. that review just happened, and again, that will happen tomorrow. you mentioned tracy martin. tracy martin, obviously being the biggest witness of the day. he was solemn. he was collected as he testified that his son trayvon martin was his best friend. he also said that he could, with regards to whether it was his son's voice on the 911 call, so much has been made over whether tracy martin said "no," when he changed his mind. today on the stand, tracy martin said he told police that he couldn't tell. he didn't say that he said, "no," he said, "i couldn't tell." again, that was tracy martin, called, of course, called by the defense, not called by the state, michael. >> craig, thanks for a great report. we appreciate it. >> reporter: thank you. >> for more on the trial, we're joined by msnbc legal analyst, lisa bloom, alex ferrer, a former florida kirk it is court judge and myrna white, a former criminal defense attorney. i want to get in a moment to what went on with trayvon martin's father and his

testimony. but let's first talk about the toxicology, as we just heard from craig. lisa, i presume that this will be billed as a victory for the prosecution, because now that evidence comes in. wouldn't pot more instinctively maybe somebody seem more docile? >> right. >> intuitively, i think that makes trayvon martin seem less the aggressor. >> the defense has been fighting to get in, especially after the medical examiner changed his testimony last friday, it opened the door and they got to argue again. but isn't most people's common experience with marijuana that it makes you less aggressive, more relaxed. so i don't know, ultimately, if this is really going to help the defense at all. >> alex, are they misreading it? is the defense misreading this by wanting to get that into evidence? >> i don't think they're going to get it in, for the purpose of arguing that he got high, so he

became violent, because i think it kind of strains all credibility. however, in the opening statement and throughout the case, we've heard the tape being made of the call to the police where george zimmerman says, there's a strange guy, he's walking between the houses, he looks like he's high on drugs or something. and this tends to corroborate that he wasn't just making stuff up because he was watching a black male. he was actually reporting something that, lo and behold, he does seem to be high on something. in fact, they did argue that in the video from the 7-eleven or whatever, he seemed to be swaying a little bit, which is consistent again. >> myrna, isn't there a risk, though, for the defense, that there could be blowback if this is viewed as nothing but an effort to sully the man who is no longer here? >> absolutely. because the amount of marijuana in his system, we don't know how much was in the system, as it is, and was that enough, in his system, to make him act out? and i can agree with lisa, generally when people are taking marijuana, it is a docile, more mellow type of feel. not of aggression. >> and these are trace amounts, i want to emphasize. >> very small, very small. >> other big developments today. trayvon martin's father, tracy martin, was called to the stand and delivered a stunning piece of testimony. prior to martin taking stand, we heard from two detectives who said that they heard martin say that it wasn't his son's voice

screaming for help in the background of a neighbor's 911 call. their testimony echoed a police report, which said, quote, i asked mr. martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son. mr. martin clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded, no. here's the exchange when defense attorney mark o'mara asked tracy martin about that. >> do you recall officer serino asking you whether or not you could identify your son's voice? >> not those exact words, but something to that nature, yes. >> okay. do you recall the words, as best you can recall, that he used? >> as best as i recall, after he played the tape, he basically just said, do you recognize the voice? >> and what was your response? >> my response was, simply, i didn't tell him that i didn't know -- i didn't tell him, no, that wasn't trayvon. i kind of -- i think the chairs had wheels on them and i kind of

pushed away from the -- away from the table and just kind of shook my head and said, i can't tell. >> so your words were, "i can't tell"? >> something to that effect. but i never said, no, that wasn't my son's voice. >> i thought the attempt, lisa, at rehabilitation by the prosecution was pretty effective when essentially they brought out of the man that he didn't want to accept given the rawness of the emotions in the immediate aftermath, didn't want to accept at that juncture that his son had passed. >> this was totally unnecessary for the defense to put tracy martin on the stand. they already had two police officers saying that he denied it. this was not necessary at all. i think this is the second biggest blunder that the defense made, only after putting george zimmerman on hannity, saying that the killing of trayvon martin was god's plan. >> does it, myrna, all come down to a jury's determination of who they believe that voice is? whomever the voice is was not the aggressor, consequently it could sway the entire outcome of the case, or is that too dramatic? >> i think it's too dramatic. i think it's a number of issues,

in the jury's determination of who the aggressor was. they have witnesses that said, we saw the lighter man on the bottom, and another witness said that we saw the lighter man -- i mean, the darker man on the top. so i think it's not just -- and i think that the defenses is belaboring that point, and as lisa said, it's not necessary. i think it did more good for the prosecution, because it brought on an emotional tracy martin. and you know, after coming to the station, not knowing why he was coming, not to hear a recording, thinking maybe he was going to gather his son's things, he's very emotional. he's distraught. he's trying to come to grips with the terms that his son was just murdered. so i think that they're really just belaboring that point and that that's not going to be the deciding factor for the jury. >> alex, let me call on your experience as a former florida judge. some believe that there was overcharging in this case and that the prosecution is going to have difficulty in meeting its burden with regard to a second-degree murder charge. how difficult will it be for the prosecution, if they can't win second-degree, to nevertheless

get a manslaughter conviction? >> well, it's not difficult, really. the same argument was made in the casey anthony case, and i disagree with it as well. some say you overcharge and the jury ends up losing confidence in you, but they'll be instructed on the lesser. it's really easy for the prosecutor to get up there and say look, we've proven these elements. if for some reason you don't agree, we have certainly proven manslaughter. if they did something outrageous, charged something ridiculous, that's not even remotely supported by the evidence, then they lose total credibility and then it might hurt them. but this was a close call. >> the defense's day was built around testimony from zimmerman's friends and colleagues, who all say it's his voice screaming for help in the background of the 911 call. >> do you know who is voice that is in the background, screaming? >> yes, definitely. it's georgie. >> i thought it was george. >> and tell me why you think that? >> just the tone, the -- just the volume and the tone of what i was hearing. and it just sounded like george.

>> i recognized his voice. i've heard him speak many times. i have no doubt in my mind that's his voice. >> whose voice is it? >> george zimmerman's voice. >> there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's george zimmerman. and i wish to god i did not have that ability to understand that. >> lisa, given the totality of that testimony, is that why you believe it was unnecessary to call trayvon martin's father to the stand at the end of the day? >> no, i think because the two police officers had already said that trayvon martin's father had already said, it's not my son. i have in my mind mark o'mara's cross-examination of trayvon martin's mother, where he planted the idea that you have to hope that it's your loved one calling out, because the alternative is unacceptable. and that applies, i think, to all of these witnesses, who care very much about george zimmerman on one side, or care very much about trayvon martin on the other side. i'm not saying that they're lying. i mean, probably, some of them are right. some of them have to be right, it's one or the other. but those who are wrong are probably hoping in good faith.

>> and isn't one of the issues, alex, that none of those who testified were familiar with both voices. >> right. >> weaver got individuals who are familiar with one or the other, but they don't know both. >> not only that, more importantly, i don't think any of them are familiar with either voice in a panicked, screaming for your life mode. i think that they are friends, they want to believe, if they're right, they're probably right coincidentally, not because they ever heard their voice in a screaming for your life mode. so i really think that the jury could latch on to one or another. it's not going to be because of quantity. it's not because you presented seven and you presented two, so we'll go with seven. it's not going to be that. they might just wash and say, i don't think we know whose voice it is, but let's look at the other evidence. >> i fully recognize, it only matters what six women who are sitting in that courtroom are thinking of this case, but we're all paying very close attention. let me quickly ask each of you, as it stands today, how has the case gone in for the prosecution and the defense? myrna, you're first? >> i think for the prosecution, i think it's gone in well for

the prosecution. many people beg to differ and say that the prosecution's case is based primarily circumstantial and there is no reasonable doubt. but i think based on what they have, the information that they have, they put on the best case they possibly could. >> alex, do you agree with that? >> i am one of the people who would beg to differ. i think the prosecution's case is very weak, not because of circumstantial, i have no problem with circumstantial cases, but because every witness they called became a defense witness. they gave more for the defense on some cases than the prosecution got. i don't believe they've proven second-degree murder. i don't know they can prove manslaughter, because of the self-defense evidence that's in the record already, without the defense finishing, is very strong. >> by your analysis, should the defense have even put on a case? >> oh, yes, because if he gets convicted of manslaughter, it's 30 years maximum in state prison. i think they are right to put on a case. in fact, i think the m.e. that's going to be coming, vincent di maio is going to help the defense's east case tremendously as far as the lack of defense injuries on the knuckles of trayvon martin.

>> lisa bloom, where are we? >> i have watched almost every minute of this trial, i would say almost 99% of it. i have reviewed all of the evidence, sometimes multiple times. and i didn't come into this gunning for one side or the other. i thought the prosecution began slowly and many of the witnesses were turned for the defense. but i think that they have really picked up steam and they have established a lot of inconsistencies in george zimmerman's story. this is not a case where you can hold up one sound bite and say, see, he's guilty. it takes pulling the threads together. and a very strong closing argument. but, i've got to tell you, when george zimmerman said on that hannity interview, as i said, that it was god's plan, you know, that really is a sour note. when you look at the evidence, like the fact that the gun was holstered inside his waistband, behind him, the gun is black. the holster is black. it's a dark night. and supposedly, trayvon martin saw it and reached for it. which seems almost a physical impossibility to me. >> but they really haven't -- you know, you've noted that, and i think it's a great observation. they really haven't made note of that in the trial, at least thus far.

>> i hope the operative word is "yet." >> three great analyses, thank you so much for being here. lisa bloom, alex ferrer and myrna white. coming up, what happened in the final moments of that asiana flight that happened in san francisco's airport. it's rare to hear experts talking about this so early, but the words on everyone's lips seem to be "pilot error." also, you can just imagine what eliot spitzer was thinking, hey, if anthony weiner can be a front-runner by running for mayor of new york city, why can't i run for something? so he is, for city comptroller, and joins us tonight here on "hardball." plus, dozens were killed in clashes in egypt today. our issue tonight, is the u.s. more interested in preserving democracy or in joining the side that's winning? and let me finish tonight with one more reason why people have had it up to here with government. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

the daughter of former vice president dick cheney may be about to trigger a republican civil war.

liz cheney wants to run for senate seat in wyoming currently held by fellow republican mike enzi. but enzi who is 69 years old says he has no plans to step aside, and many republicans in wyoming say that he has done nothing to warrant being tossed out. in fact, former wyoming senator alan simpson told "the new york times," quote, it's a disaster, a divisive, ugly situation, and all it does is open the door for democrats for 20 years. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." saturday's crash landing of asiana airlines flight 214 in san francisco left two dead and more than 80 injured. we just got this video shot from across san francisco bay showing the plane's chutes deploying and passengers escaping the flaming aircraft. let's watch. >> they're running out, dude. they're [ bleep ] running. >> oh, my god. what the [ bleep ] just happened? >> i told you, it just --

everybody's just running. >> this afternoon, ntsb chairwoman deborah hersman said investigators plan to interview the pilots tomorrow, and she had this to say about the current state of the investigation. >> they're now reviewing manuals in training. they're working to conduct 72-hour work rest histories. and those 72-hour histories are really looking at the pilot's flight and duty time, their rest opportunities, and the activities that have taken place in the days leading up to the crash. in our investigations, we're often looking for things that might affect human performance, like fatigue, like illnesses or medication, like health issues. and so, we will be looking at all of those things to see if there are any impacts on their ability to perform their jobs.

>> joining me now, pilot and aviation lawyer arthur walt. arthur, thanks for being here. i don't remember a case like this of such catastrophic consequences, where on the tip of everybody's tongue, even if they're not saying it, seem to be the words, "pilot error." at this early stage, is that your assessment? >> yes, there's no question about that. this airplane made an unstabilized approach to the airport under beautiful weather conditions. there was no reason for it not to have been stabilized. and what stabilized means is being at the proper speed, the proper descent rate, the airplane configured for landing. and this airplane, for most of that, wasn't any of those things. it was at the improper speed, slow at some point right before the crash. it was fast at other points. it was too high, it was too low, it was simply unstabilized. and a go-around should have been, in fact is mandated to be required in order to avoid an accident. >> put me in that cockpit and in lay terms, tell me on what equipment am i relying if i'm the captain that tells me where

to land the aircraft? >> all right. the pilot's looking outside, because this is a visual approach. he's looking at the runway, and he can see the touchdown zone of the runway. that's the part that we've all seen as passengers or pilots. that's the part where all the skid marks are, about 1,100 feet down the runway. now, that's the aiming point. that's where he wants to touch down. and he's got to adjust the air speed of the aircraft to be at what's called v-ref. so he's looking at the air speed indicator, he's set in the speed he's supposed to be flying, 137 knots, for that weight. and what he's doing is looking at his vertical speed and his glide path, so that the sight picture that he sees is going to put him down in the touchdown zone. >> so what's -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> what's happened in this airplane is he was all over the place. he was too high on that visual glide path, he was too low at some points, he was too fast, initially, and then he got slow.

now, when the airplane got slow, the first thing that should have happened is the man in the right seat, the first officer or -- i think he was also a captain should have said "captain, you're too slow." and if the captain didn't do something to change that condition, meaning applying power, then the first officer should have done it for him. that's called cockpit resource management, and he didn't do that. so the airplane got even slower. in fact, it got so slow that the stall warning horn went on, and then the stick shaker activated. the stick shaker is the airplane's yoke, shaking back and forth. and it's the last-ditch effort of the airplane, saying to the pilot, hey, you got me too slow and we're going to crash if you don't add power or get this airplane speeded up. and he didn't do that. >> this morning, ntsb chairman, deborah hersman said the pilot's lack of experience landing this plane at this airport was not out of the ordinary. >> it's not unusual for pilots to have a first landing coming into an airport.

they fly all around the world, there are a lot of different destinations. what you want to do is have a crew that's proficient in the aircraft and works together well. that you have good crew pairings, that's important. >> arthur walk, what's your assessment thus far of the experience issue? >> i think 43 hours, which the captain had, is not an unreasonably low amount of experience for the 777. remember, he had over 10,000 hours flying big airplanes, like 747s. that's not unusual. what i'm troubled by more than anything else is the lack of what i'll call cockpit resource management. why didn't the guy in the right seat say something sooner? why didn't he tell the captain, you're too slow. why didn't he say, you're below the glide path. why didn't he say, let's execute a go-around, in time to avoid a crash. he didn't. now, the captain, for whatever reason, maybe he was tired, maybe he was -- didn't have

enough time in the airplane, at least for his own comfort level. that's why you have a very experienced pilot in the right seat, 3,200 hours in the 777, who is supposed to say and do something. >> is it difficult, sometimes, final question for arthur walk, but is it difficult for that person in the second seat to speak up in a circumstance like this? >> one would hope not. pilots are trained that if the captain, even though you revere him and respect him, and he may be older and more experienced than you, do something wrong, first you tell him, and if he doesn't change what he's doing, then you take over the airplane. that's the way it goes. that's the safety procedures that are taught. and that's what should have happened here. >> arthur walk, thank you for your expertise. >> sure. up next, mitch mcconnell's off-key attack on his new senate opponent. and just a reminder, you can listen to my radio program every weekday morning at 9:00 eastern on sirius xm's channel 124. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. it seems that everybody's on social media these days. the latest edition, the tsa. the security agency best known for making you remove your shoes at the airport has joined instagram and is publishing photos of the items they confiscate at terminal checkpoints. the feed showcases a variety of deadly weapons and explosives, everything from loaded pistols, belt buckle knives to fireworks, grenades, brass knuckles, and even a vintage derringer and a bayonet. the initiative is intended to bring attention to the rise in deadly weapons that are being smuggled on to airplanes. the tsa reports a 30% rise in the number of guns seized in the first six months of 2013. senate minority leader mitch

mcconnell is also showing off his media chops with a viral campaign ad, ridiculing his new democratic opponent, kentucky secretary of state alison lundergan grimes. the ad released last week auto tunes grimes' own words to create this. >> what, what, what. what, what, what. alison lundergan grimes. alison lundergan grimes. >> a former consultant said the ad was childish. it certainly looks like mcconnell is sticking to his whack-a-mole strategy. we'll see how it plays out. finally, if you were in new york last week you may have been one of the 16,000 people who caught a special fourth of

july-themed exhibit at the new york public library. rare original copies of the declaration of independence and the bill of rights were on display together, side by side, for the first time. a declaration of independence draft, handwritten by thomas jefferson himself, was one of a few copies to include a condemnation of slavery, which was later removed. and to boot, the early copy of the bill of rights actually included 12 amendments. two did not pass, including a amendment that would have tied the number of seats in the house to the growing population. had it passed, there would be 6,000 members of congress today, rather than 435. talk about too many cooks in the kitchen. up next, it's the year of comeback and the end of the sex scandal. eliot spitzer is running again in new york and he joins us next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." new york governor eliot spitzer resigned from office in march of 2008 because of his relationship with a prostitute. today, we learned that spitzer is making an attempt for a second political act, announcing that he will run for new york

city comptroller. this year has seen former political stars sidelined from public life as a result of their own personal behavior and misjudgments launch campaigns for redemption and for public office once again. mark sanford, the disgraced former governor of south carolina, who left the state on taxpayer funds to travel to argentina to visit his mistress in 2009 recently won election to the house. former congressman anthony weiner left congress in 2011, after sexual pictures of him surfaced on twitter. after two years of elusiveness, weiner now finds himself neck in neck, if not leading the race for mayor of new york city. spitzer like weiner and sanford is gambling that voters will forgive him. and look beyond his previous misconduct five years after leaving public office. former governor and now candidate eliot spitzer joins me now. governor, does running now mean that resigning was unwarranted? >> no, i think what it means is that -- and when i resigned, i felt very deeply that i had violated the public trust. i needed to act in accordance

with my view that accountability means something, so i resigned. there were some people who said try to hang on, try to stay in office. i said no. i must resign. i've spent five years teaching, had some tv shows that are interesting. i have written. i have run our family business. have a book coming out next week that is a discussion of many of the market principles that drove what i did when i was attorney general. so five years later, i think i can ask forgiveness. i can say to the public, look at the entirety of my record as attorney general, as a prosecutor, as governor. i have erred, i have acknowledged it, i have sinned, i make no denial of that. i am asking for an opportunity to come back and serve, which is what i love to do. >> how long have you known that you would get into this race? and i ask because my suspicion is you looked at anthony weiner and said what the hell? this guy is about to run and be elected mayor of new york city. eliot spitzer can be the comptroller. >> i see why everyone is presuming this. i've only known for 48 hours ago, when i said to myself, i actually do want to do this. i have done many things over the past five years and over the past number of months as well. this past weekend, i said, do i

want to do this? i made a final decision, and i spoke with members of my family. the book i've written is now complete. it's coming out next week. i said, this is a moment to seek public office. >> will we see your wife on the campaign trail? >> yes. >> she's in? >> yes. >> family's committed to this? >> yes. >> would a spitzer victory mark the end of the sex scandal, as we know it? and i'm asking, really, have we become too intrusive into our elected officials and candidates' private lives? >> look, i'm not sure i'm the right person to ask because i have a perspective of it that is so tailored to what i have been through. and i might separate those questions. have we become too intrusive, have we lost all sense of privacy? yes, i think that's a larger issue than we as a society need to confront, to what candidates are subjected to. i think maybe there's an important conversation there. is it the end of the sex scandal? no. am i in any way condoning what i did? absolutely not. and so, i think those issues move in tandem and have an interesting relationship. but, certainly, the former is a conversation. >> is compartmentalization a

part of what goes on? in other words, too often do we ascribe to one's behavior in private life what goes on in their private life? i ask you, mindful of the fact that governor schwarzenegger never had any ethical improprieties as his tenure as governor, yet we know what happened, vis-a-vis, the maid and so forth. maybe we should be looking at that case as instructive of the fact that there is a big line between how one comports themselves privately and how one comports themselves publicly. >> i think what you're saying reflects what a significant percentage of the public feels. and i say having spoken to many people about this. some who say yes, as you just articulated, private life is private life. and as i go into this campaign, i'm saying to people, look, i've acknowledged the problems of my private life, but now i want to talk about the public. some say, yes, there's a private dimension here and a public dimension. others say, and i understand their perspective, one informs the other. one speaks to the coherence of one's values and therefore, you can't separate them quite that neatly. i think, as a society, we're a bit schizophrenic on this. i think other nations do clearly

have that divide. >> do they have the right idea? >> again, i think i'm the worst person to speak to it. i think we need to have that conversation. again, i've suffered the consequences, rightly so, of a public looking at both. >> i always said, i may as well tell you this face to face. i always said on air that your wife should have thrown your clothes out the window into central park, but that should not have impacted your ability to perform as governor. so what business, is it really of ours? >> i like hearing that, but i'm not the one to embrace it. and say aha, you're right and you're wrong. i acknowledge what i did. i paid a price. at this moment i'm saying five years later, maybe with the public's permission i could come back. >> one more question, among a long list of those that you are just sick and tired of answering. >> yeah. >> should prostitution be illegal? >> again, i'm not the right person. i think that -- no, certain

parts -- when i was governor, i was proud of the fact that we passed much tougher human trafficking laws. and i think the problem is that prostitution is, in fact, integrally related with other parts of criminal activity that is fundamentally wrong, dangerous, violative, on any dimension. if people are saying, look, two people consensually having sex and there's money, when you define it that benignly, it sounds somewhat like smoking dope and people say aha, decriminalize it. but it is integrally related with other aspects of criminal behavior, so i'm not sure i'm ready to go this. >> does redemption require that you run for comptroller? you were the governor of this great state, as opposed to running for mayor or some other office? >> no -- >> given your credentials and your pedigree, it almost seems this is a spot beneath spitzer's record? >> i love the job i'm running for. the comptroller. >> why? >> because you have a say in so many fundamental decisions about control of the pensions, which is important for insuring that they're there for those who earned them, but corporate governance shares because shareholder voices are not being heard, institutional

shareholders are passive. if we want corporate governance reform, it will come by ownership, being heard. ownership trumps regulation, as i've written in many places. you have a role as comptroller. you have a role to audit the city not just were the paper clips delivered, but are the policies working? what we're paying for, are we getting back? and i've been ag governor, huge areas there of opportunity. when i was ag, i redefined the office. i want to go that. >> you have thick skin, but you can imagine if you're successful and anthony weiner is successful, this will be late-night fodder for the next decade. >> i've been late-night fodder. thank goodness for the remote button. yeah, change the channel. i've got the skin as thick as a rhinoceros. but sometimes even an arrow pokes through. look, that's politics. harry truman, can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. >> so today you were out on the campaign trail for the first day in at least five years. >> yes, that's correct. >> how was it? what happened? >> it was mayhem. there was one moment i was at union square gathering petitions

and they called ate donut. i was surrounded by more members of the media than i have literally ever seen in one place. it was a circle -- it must have been 150 cameras, reporters. i don't know why they're so interested. you know, there are not many questions i haven't answered in the past couple of years. and i didn't say anything terribly exciting or new today. maybe i shouldn't say that. but there i was. >> are executives on wall street today opening their checkbooks to write checks in opposition to eliot spitzer? have those issues tamed at all? that hostility still exists? >> i don't want to characterize their views, but i'll tell you, a direct quotation, opening of the book is a quotation of a lawyer speaking to me saying, be careful, we have powerful friends. that's what he said to me, to discourage me from filing one of the most important cases that we filed. i'm not going to tell you on air what i said. it violates some rules. we filed the case the next day. they have powerful friends, they are powerful. they disliked what i said. there is still a lot of animus there. i've seen it as recently as a coupe of weeks ago when a senior

executive came up to me and went crazy. >> any difficulty you'll have in obtaining the number of signatures you need to obtain in such a short period of time. if you just made this decision, my understanding is you need several thousand. it's a city of millions, but finding those who are registered to vote in this town is not an easy process by thursday. >> we're going to do it. we're confident. i'm going to struggle. walking the one block over here, one block, a couple of people came up. i whipped out a petition and got them to sign it. we're going to do it. it's going to be hard, because i don't have the institutions behind me right now, but i think we'll be able to do it. >> if you should win this position, i know you won't answer me, i'm going to ask it anyway. if you should become the comptroller, is eliot spitzer's real goal to become the mayor of new york city? >> no, i'll answer that. the answer is no. the answer is no. the real goal is to win this office and perform as well as i can. when i ran for ag, i said, i want to do that job as well as i can. that's always been my view. i don't worry about what's down the road. i focus on what's ahead. >> i find it difficult to believe, that the end of the career path is to be the comptroller of new york city. >> you know, i'm 54. i have a loot of years left. i don't know where things go. as i've said, i've seen peaks and valleys. peaks are more fun, you learn

more in the valleys, hope i climb back to a couple of peaks. >> thank you, eliot spitzer. >> thank you, sir. up next, does the u.s. want to be on the side of democracy or on the side that's winning in egypt? this is "hardball," the place for politics. she knows you like no one else. and you wouldn't have it any other way. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing,

stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. texas governor rick perry won't seek re-election next year. perry is the longest-serving governor in texas history, and he told supporters today that he plans to retire. now, of course, at 63, perry could try again for the presidency, but he'll have some big hurdles.

last time around, he famously said, oops, during a debate, in which he couldn't remember three federal agencies he wanted to eliminate if elected. we'll be right back.

it was a bloody day in egypt after clashes left at least 51 people dead. islamist supporters of mohamed morsi fought egyptian soldiers this morning. there are fears violence could get much worse. the muslim brotherhood called on egyptians to rise up against the army. this leaves the united states in an increasingly ugly and difficult decision. the white house has refrained from calling president morsi's ouster a coup. if the administration did conclude that, it would mean cutting off more than $1.5 billion in aid to the egyptian government. today white house press secretary jay carney said the administration is still reviewing whether morsi's ouster should be labeled a coup but warned cutting off aid right

away would not be in the best interest of the united states. nbc's first read noted we can expect the obama administration to take a more hands-on approach to what happened next in egypt than it did 2 1/2 years ago when mubarak was ousted. but how much influence does the u.s. really have? howard fineman is editorial director of the "huffington post" and msnbc political analyst. joel ruben is former egypt desk officer at the state department. mr. ruben, you're the perfect person to ask about this coup question and significance of the lack of funding if all of a sudden it gets cut. how should this play itself out? >> well, michael, right now there's still chaos on the streets in cairo. there's blood on the streets, quite literally, and what we need to make sure is that this powder keg doesn't have a match lit to it and we need to not wade into a situation where cutting aid precipitously right now is that match. so there is an assessment under way. we have a chance, now, to engage the egyptians across the whole swath of political actors there and really push for where the

revolution went 30 minutes ago which was to try to be inclusive and create a democratic path that's sustainable and the egyptians control. >> yesterday john mccain did something that so far few in washington seem to be willing to do. officially, at least, and that's call what happened in egypt a coup. >> it was a coup, and it was the second time in 2 1/2 years that we have seen the military step in. it's a strong indicator of the lack of american leadership and influence since we urged the military not to do that, and reluctantly i believe that we have to suspend aid until such time as there is a new constitution and a free and fair election. >> howard fineman, are we on the side of democracy or not? >> well, that's a good question. i think we are in theory, and perhaps in the long run we are, in fact, in egypt if the democratic -- the people who

support democracy truly support democracy in egypt can get together to take power peacefully. but senator mccain is right. i don't think there's any doubt that in real functional terms this was a military coup. what's happening is that president obama's foreign policy in that region, which he enunciated in 2009 in the same city of cairo, is now running up against reality in cairo. and his support for the democratic ideals as he spoke of them in 2009 are being tested on the streets right now. talking to white house, one white house official, they're not going any farther than they went today for now. carney, jay carney's statement was as far as they're going to go at this point. >> joel, i see that some protesters, there, see america as being too close to the muslim brotherhood.

>> well, it's an irony of sorts, michael, because the united states is going to be blamed regardless, frankly, of the situation. we have to get used to that. context matters here. we have to remember that nearly 22 million egyptians, more than a quarter of their population, signed a petition for mohamed morsi to leave power. and the military stepped in now. it's not to condone what the military did, but they saw an internal situation devolving quickly, and they made a decision. we don't have control over that, and our role in this is to make sure that they are getting back immediately to what it is they called for the other evening which is a democratic process. clearly the egyptian people are looking for more than what they got over the past year. and frankly, they're looking for more than what the military gave them in the prior year. >> gentlemen -- >> it's really our responsibility to be engaged. >> i wish we had more time. thank you, howard fineman. as always. thank you, joel rubin. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back after this.

let me finish tonight with this. this was a busy news weekend especially for a holiday. much of it tragic. the horrible airline crash in san francisco, the violent and unsettled situation in egypt. the shooting of 67 people over the extended weekend in chicago, alone. and yet when i read the sunday "washington post" online, i noted the most popular item was a column written by robert mccartney about the latest caper of a man who bills himself as the phantom planter. henry doctor is his name. he's a 52-year-old green thumb good samaritan who for the last

three decades has been surreptitiously planting flowers on four continents in an effort to beautify public spaces. he views his work as performance art. never has he encountered a problem, that is until he planted 11,000 morning glories, cardinal flours and vines at a metro station in the nation's capital. his plan was they would bloom in 167 otherwise baron flower box in colors red, white and blue from august until october. metro wasn't happy. doctor was threatened with arrest, fines and imprisonment if he dared to weed, water or otherwise tend to his work along the top stretch of the dupont circle station. the stated concern, safety. according to mccartney's coverage, metro worried that doctor could hurt himself if he fell, given the steep incline of where he had planted. but doctor wasn't arrested. instead, metro employees pulled out all the flowers, claiming they did so in anticipation of repairs to paver blocks. the flower boxes now sit empty.

where the flowers once were, a healthy debate now grows. many are incredulous of metro's justify case and angry at the transportation network, which is habitually broke and lacking in resources, could suddenly move so expeditiously to uproot a good thing. one blogging supporter of the phantom planter advised him, try bamboo next time. others say, not is so fast, the phantom planter trespassed and put flowers where he had no business gardening. one, for example, wrote, he planted one plant that is evasive, one that dies when it gets cold and one that needs lots of watering. i don't blame metro for ripping them out. what if someone hurt themselves trying to water the lovely things? that last part was typical of many comments in the end that blamed lawyers for this garden-gate. actually i think most lawyers could have solved this by having mr. doctor sign a simple liability waiver to tend to his crop.