thanks for disrupting your saturday afternoon. from cairo to a major decision on stop and frisk to the greatest defender of minority rights, we have a lot to talk about. >> are you in a safe place to talk to us? >> no! >> a day of rage as tens of thousands in egypt defy government forces. >> the security forces here with live ammunition. they are firing. >> we are fighting for principle. >> reporter: a snipe order a roof top calmly takes aim, firing into the crowd. >> the demonstrators doing nearly all the dying. >> the egyptian people. >> gunning down protesters. >> i think he's dead. >> head, neck, chest.

>> cycle of violence, the escalation needs to stop. >> nobody is safe! >> we begin today with an update on the events in egypt where the bloody stand-off between egyptian military and the muslim brotherhood continues. earlier today, egyptian security forces stormed the cairo mosque, arresting hundreds of muslim brotherhood supporters. military officials also announced they are considering banning the muslim brotherhood. it was previously banned in just a minute for decades during the reign of former president hosni mubarak. this comes amid suggestions that the military has intentionally provoked the muslim brotherhood to demonize them in the eyes of the egyptian people. in washington there are new questions being asked about the u.s. role in egypt and particularly the stand that

president obama has taken when it comes to the push for democracy in that country. let's bring in my guest. foreign correspondent in cairo, and the professor of international relations at the london school of economics and political science, and mark ginsburg is former u.s. ambassador to morocco as well as former white house middle east adviser to president carter. thank you so much for joining me, guys. so ayman, i want to start with you. thousands of muslim brotherhood members have been arrested in the past few days. hundreds have been killed. there was a kae arrest today that i want to start with. tell us why that is so important. >> well, it is important on two different fronts. particularly from the perspective of the egyptian government. mohamed al zawahiri is the brother of ayman al zawahiri, the leader of pakistan, or the global movement. certainly in gym within very specific circles, of this

islamic ideology, that particularly being of extremists, he is a very well respected figure. very much a popular figure among the circles, among the ideological followers of this movement. so since the beginning of this, if you will, military coup, as they have called it. mohamed al zawahiri has been very critical of what has happened here. many of the supporters of the military actions have attributed the rise of militancy. some of the attacks. some of the civil unrest that has happened in egypt, to him and to other leaders within the organization like him. particularly those of another extremist group here. extreme of the muslim brotherhood. he has been a support he of president mohamed morsi. he has called for continued and sustained protests. the government for some point now looking for him as they have been for other senior leaders of the muslim brotherhood and similar organizations. if he was arrested, as we understand, coming through a check point that the police had

set up. so there is a symbolic blow and a tactical blow to the arrest of mohamed al zawahiri. when he was arrested, most would be put in a police station. because of his significance and the concern, the security forces have over his followers, programs coming to the police station, they transferred him immediately to a high security maximum prison hear in cairo. >> you know, professor, there are reports today that suggest the egyptian military never really planned to work with the muslim brotherhood. in fact, may have scuttled u.s.-led talks which apparently were productiver in a a dale to keep the peace in cairo. is the egyptian military the issue here? >> well, i think really we simplify a great deal. if we say that this is a fight between the military security apparatus and the muslim brotherhood. it is on one level. remember, as a frequent visitor to egypt, i have never seen egypt as deeply polarized along ideological, social and

political lies. as it is today, it is more polarized than it was under mubarak. you have a significant number of egyptians. not just the military who fear the islamists. what you are really seeing on your television screen is not only a struggle for power. bits the future identity of the egyptian state. what kind of a state? how civil? how modern? how religious? both camps view it as existential. it is a layoff and death struggle. i would, a to you military would not have been able to do what it has done without having a significant segment of egyptian people who have been pressing the egyptian military to take action against the muslim brotherhood. is it a deeply polarized society and the military and security are acting on the behalf of a significant number of egyptians. >> so professor, to that point, who should the u.s. be dealing with? given that there are two very strong factions and two very strong sources of power.

>> well, i may not, the reality is that the obama administration is in a terrible bind. a terrible bind because of america's vital interests that are basically engaged in egypt. remember, the u.s. military basically finds, it has a very, very strategic organic link with the egyptian military. on the other hand, american value, president obama has made it clear also involved. the use of excessive force, the killing of almost 800 civilians. injuries almost 5,000 people. i would argue that the obama administration must remain engaged with egypt. must be, must keep impressing on the egyptian military the need for constraint and also, play a mediation role. remember, karen, here, there is no neutral third force in egypt today. the society is deeply divide and you need an international force for mediation. i think the obama administration must renew its efforts to bridge the divide between two segments.

the muslim brotherhood and the secular leaning or position in egypt. >> ambassador ginsburg, to that point in material of the u.s. relationship with egypt, i want to listen to something the president had to say on thursday. >> we want egypt to succeed. we want a peaceful, democratic, prosperous egypt. that's our interest. but to achieve that, the egyptians are going to have to do the work. >> you know, ambassador, to the point that the professor was making, what role can the united states play at this point? >> well, i agree with the professor. i think he was right on the money on this. we have to understand, karen, the military has a choice here. it either can reverse to the way that it has ruled egypt in the past when hosni mubarak after all inherited the presidency when sadat was assassinated in 1981 and comes out of the

military. here we have the general who is now the very popular, at least in many segments of egyptian society, as the supreme commander. and yet at the same time, there is a whole cadre of political leaders in egypt that have become the facade, the face of the military provisional government. so the united states has to play the role that the professor said. which is to use the civilian leadership as a lever against the military. we have to understand. the general, senators graham and mccain packing. he publicly ridiculed president obama in the united states. there is no great love between what the general has done and his views of the administration and president obama. so we're going to have to find a way in which to use other levers of authority in egypt to rein him in. our values are at stake as much as our relationship is with

egypt. >> ambassador, i know you've been very critical of the administration. for sometime, i think most people thought that the money that we send to egypt, that that was our point of leverage with the military. as you point out, it is really not such a point of leverage anymore. what could the administration have done earlier in the process? >> i'm not going to say that the president had a great leverage here. after all, the u.s. popularity in egypt across every cross section of egyptian society is at low ebb. it is not as if we have any great leverage with the egyptian people. at the same time, i would have urged the administration to not merely suspend a military exercise which the egyptians probably would have suspended on their own already. and they've done in the past. we overexaggerate what we symbolically have done. we could have suspended and i'm not saying terminate. we could have suspended the aid that's in the pipeline right now. and more importantly, we could

have probably now dispatched secretary kerry to meet with the very political leadership that is necessary to be used at this time as a lever against the military. so we need to understand that there are things we could have done, at least for our own values. irrespective of what they may have meant at the time on the egyptian military's exercise of violence here against its own people. >> you know, i want to come back to you, ayman for a motel, and get a assess of what is happening on the streets with the egyptian people. is there a tipping point at which, this violence has gone on for days. it seems like it will continue for quite a while. where is the tipping point where in the people decide they don't want this violence anymore? >> well, as the professor was saying, this is an existential debate in egypt among various political groups. it is not about the military per

se as much as it is about those who subscribe to the ideology that he the military won't be allowed to take over egypt. which is as he said, a fascist religious dictatorship. ment in eyes of many egyptians, what was on the verge of happening during the term of president mohamed morsi in office. the concern among many, how will this play out? not so much because of the violence on the streets. because there is no political discourse in the country that can bring these two to the table. in the absence of that, that's where a lot of criticism has been leveled against the military in the sense that you now have with the way you've broken up the sit-in, with the fact that you're pursuing the leadership of the muslim brotherhood. you've eliminated the chance of any political discourse the to take place to allow for reconciliation, to calm nerves and perhaps to get an inclusive political process back spinning

in motion if debate in egypt has centered on two things. one, trying to leave the level have violence and tensions down. and trying to prop up the parties that can actually negotiate a long term reconciliation solution. there is a serious absence on both of those fronts it has egypt facing a level of uncertainty it hasn't faced in its modern history. >> thank you to ayman mohyeldin. should being stopped and frictioned be accepted as a rite of passage for young people of color? but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy

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that's the violent vision that mayor bloomberg, bill o'riley have after this week's ruling against the ruling of stop and frisk. a return to the bad old days of the cult classic, the warriors. yesterday bloomberg took the first process toward appealing that ruling which said the city's policy violates the constitution. supporters of stop and frisk say any limits would reverse two decades of falling crime in new york. >> new york city when it didn't have this had one of the highest murder rates in the country. now it is the lowest. >> if this decision were to stand, it would turn those precedents on their head and make our city, and in fact the whole country, a more dangerous place. >> now we're going to adopt the practices of the losers. and we're going to return to the 1970s and the 1980s. >> it was unbelievable violence

and chaos. >> if murder rates over the last 11 years had been the same as the previous 11 years, more than 7300 people who are alive today would be dead. >> once crime starts to spill out, and then there is no policing, as it was back then. >> yes, people should be very aware, if in fact the judge is wrong, people will die as a result of his decision. >> they're creating a false choice between a policy of indirect racial profiling as the judge put it, and just total chaos. and although way new york practices stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional, the fact remains law enforcement officers around the country still have very broad powers that can perpetuate racial profiling. some police departments have actually developed innovative strategies to combat gun violence, gangs and the gun trade. it is about engaging communities, rather than alienating them. joining me now, nicholas, one of the plaintiffs in the class action suit against stop and

frisk. and devin and kimberly, co-authors of an op ed in the new york time this week entitled racial profiling lives on. thank you for joining me. i want to start with you and ask you to talk about, unfortunately, you've had more than one experience being stopped and frisks. in this city. >> well, for one, one instance when i was stopped and frisks, i was stopped and frisked on my 18th birthday. i had been celebrating. i had been at my sister's house. i had my cousins as well with me. out of nowhere, squad cars come up and they come with their guns drawn and we get on the ground. instances like this that happen several hundred times in the city. a troubling thing that young men growing up in the city are subjected to this. and they grow up thinking this is a normal thing. >> one of the things you wrote about was, you talk about, that, i was very struck by this. this has become a rite of

passage. i thought it was interesting because earlier this week you had police commissioner ray kelly saying that people should accept this basically as, this is just part of urban life. your thoughts on that? >> well, certainly, it is not. you have 700,000 stops in 2011. this is stop and frisk is almost used as a form of social conditioning for young black and latino males, for them to feel intimidated. people are living their daily lives. they're doing what everyone else in the city does. and they are criminalized. it shouldn't happen. >> devin and kim, you wrote an op ed in the new york time pointing out that despite the ruling, police do have very broad powers granted by the supreme court. can you take us through the actions that are still permissible? >> sure. one way to think about what might still be permissible is to ask a question about about

nicholas. let's say that tomorrow afternoon, nicholas is standing on the street corner in new york city. the police have no reason to think that he has done anything wrong. they can approach him. ask him what he is doing. where is he going? where has he been? can i see your i.d.? none of this implicates the fourth amendment because the supreme court would rule that this is not a seizure. let's say that nicholas, upon seeing the police, based on his prior experiences decides to run away. the police have no reason to think he's done anything wrong. they can chase him, continue to chase him because the supreme court would rule that that too does not implicate the fourth amendment. one more example might be helpful here. let's say that nicholas is driving down the road. alongside him is a white male them both commit a traffic infraction and the police explicitly say let's stop nicholas because he's black and pause he might have drugs on him. the supreme court would rule that that stop is absolutely constitutional because the police have probable cause to think that he committed a traffic infraction even though

it is based on race and even though it is a pretext stop. >> what strikes me about that as well, we do have some rights when we are stopped. but yet, you know, there is this perception, and obviously nicholas can speak to this probably better than i. in doing so, you may actually escalate the situation. >> well, absolutely. and i think one of the things that was so disturbing about what the judge found was that many of these stops, particularly those that involved african-americans, and latinos, commence to coercion. and many of those individuals were eventually let go. most of them were. so basically, what that is telling us is that there is the law on the books. the constitutional law. then there is the law on the street. what really happens, what people day to day know is really the condition of their life. and what we thought was just so remarkable about mayor

bloomberg's response to it was that he was completely in, apoplectic about a judge finally applying the law on the books to the prerogative of officers on the street. that just gives us a sense of how far out of bounds the new york police department actually was. >> right. and actually to that point, i was shocked to read in your piece that under a 1975 supreme court ruling, if someone just looks mexican, that that is grounds to challenge their immigration status which has huge implications. you know, devin, the counter argument says, of course, without stop and frisk, crime will skyrocket. but according to the nyclu, violent crime declined in more cities that don't rely on stop and frisk abuses. >> that's absolutely right. to say that the stop and frisk practice, and the way the new york police department engages in it is responsible for crime

decline simply flies in the face of empirical evidence. there are lots of other cities that do not engage in this practice who have also experienced crime decline. and it is important to recognize that the stop and frisk doctrine as the court announced it, already struck the right balance. typically probable cause is the gold standard for seizures. and in 1968 that court said let's give police officers more leeway. let's allow them to stop on reasonable suspicion and now the police are saying we want more. we want to stop people without any suspicion at all. >> one of the things that you pointed out, it really erodes the trust that should exist between people and communities. >> certainly does. it creates a large amount of distrust and hostility. and this is unaddressed hostility has been happening for so long. and i think whenever you have like a court ruling like this,

we've had this court ruling and for it to be acknowledged on this level is extremely relieving for the community, a step in the right direction. of course there are tweak that's need to be worked out. as a community we can hold the police accountable for the actions. it has to come from both parties. >> it is ironic, kimberly that when ray kelly served under giuliani. he was seen as the champion of community policing. now more and more broader powers and there is this breakdown in the relationship between police and communities. and ironically, back in 2000, kelly actually even agreed. he said, quote, a large reservoir of good will was under construction when i left the police department in 1994. it was called community policing but it was quickly abandoned for tough sounding rhetoric and dubious stop and frisk tactics

that sowed of mistrust. my final question to you is essentially, what kinds of measures, clearly, ray kelly is somebody who understands community policing. understands the idea that if you engage the communicate, you build trust rather than create this tension and hostility. so what are the steps that can be taken? in addition to the legal steps to alleviate this? it has to be clear standards against which these race-based nonsuspicion based stops are completely regulated. one of the things the judge found was this wasn't just a case of bad apples. this was from the highest rank that's this is the kind of prophylactic policing we want to engage in which is pretty much a straight admission that there is a constitutional problem.

i think the admission was that there has to be accountability structures inside the police department and also outside the plarl. statistics are one thing. we need to be able to make sure that the right incentives are in place. the sunlight that comes to the police department is something that has something to follow it up with. namely, accountability. so community policing as a general matter is a good idea. but it can be used in very different ways. what we need to make sure of, is that there are institutional feet purchases are set in place to make sure that people know what the constitutional standard is. that there are some real consequences for their failure to abide by it. >> kimberly crenshaw, devon, nicholas, thank you so much for joining me. ahead, reince and the gang were it happen as the republican national committee met this week in boston. make it that had a. that's coming up. ♪ turn around

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i think there is no great he shall defender, truly, of minority rights, you include minorities to be the color of your skin or the color of your ideology, than myself. >> the greatest defender of minority rights and his fellow party members descended on boston this week for the republican national committee's annual summer meeting. what was the theme? making it happen. showcasing the ongoing effort by the rnc to engage with different communities across the country to help grow and expand the gop. and here we go again. yet another event where chairman reince priebus got to talk about talking to minorities. but this time, he wants to use these new things called apps on your smartphones to do the talking. the grand finale of the meeting, a unanimous vote on a resolution to not partner or sanction any 2016 gop primary debates health

by cnn or nbc because of those hillary clinton programs that actually don't even have air dates yet. one thing the resolution fail to mention, the rnc actually has no power over debates. so go ahead. keep up the good work. i'm going to bring in my guests today. msnbc contributor and former governor ed rendell and visiting professor of journalism, thank you to you both. >> good to be here. >> so governor, as a former party chairman, that you know reince really has no power here. potentially he could raise some money online with the stunt. but really what it suggests is that this was really the only thing co-get his party to agree on. reportedly, like this was the most, you know, attended raucous session of the meeting. >> yeah. and it is pretty that a athleticic when you think about it. the autopsy that they released earlier this year. the rhetoric that this is, we're going to expand our base. well, by taking nbc and cnn work

the very respected networks, out of the debate process, if you could do that, how are you expanding the base? and worse still, both those networks hispanic affiliates which are also covered by this resolution. there will be no debates carried on those hispanic affiliates. it is ludicrous. that and the party's affiliation, that's a great way to expand your vote with hispanic voters. this is silliness and they don't get it. you can have all the nice sounding rhetoric. all the apps in the world. if your policies don't reflect something that is conducive to making people in different interest groups or different ethnic groups look at what you're doing in a favorable way, it doesn't matter how many apps you have. >> that's exactly right. >> reince ruled out his autopsy of the party back in march. let's remind folks of the findings. the republican party needs to stop talking to itself. we have become expert in how to provide ideological

reinforcement to like minded people but we have lost the ability to be persuasive with or welcoming to those who do not agree with us on every issue. and yet, cynthia, with everything they are doing, including floating the idea of having rush limbaugh and sean hannity moderate the debates, they continue with this that rather than accepting change in america, they are catering to that very small dwindling base and figuring out ways to keep everybody else out. >> well, you know, despite those very thoughtful autopsies, which were right about what the republican party needs to do. it is a party largely of aging white voters. clearly, they can't depend on that base if they want to win presidential elections. but there are a lot of aging white voters in their base who don't want to let anybody else in. when reince talked about at the rnc convention over the weekend.

when he tried to talk about expanding the base beyond aging white voters. he got very tepid applause. what are other republicans trying to do across the country, trying to restrict voting rights. across the country they're trying to keep blacks and latinos from voting. and alabama, in texas, in north carolina, they're also trying to restrict reproductive rights. trying very, very hard basically to outlaw abortion for any reason at all. that doesn't exactly woo women to the party. so it doesn't matter what those post mortems have said. the base seems insistent on having a smaller and smaller tent. >> and you know, governor, switching gears a little bit here. the fight that we're seeing play itself out within the republican

base is this idea about whether or not to shut down the government over obamacare. and we know that will be a big showdown this fall. grover norquist told al hunt on bloomberg that he thinks obama will cave and delay obamacare to avoid a shutdown. as both sides in the gop fight over the shutdown, they're basically digging in. which seems to me that it really underscores more of a narrative of incompetence, and that even with their own pollsters have said, what they pointed out yesterday, shutting down the government is the one way that republicans can turn obamacare from a political advantage to a political disadvantage in 2014. >> right. and let me say this. i think right now, without the government shutdown, it is likely that republican there's retain the house because ref districting in 2014. if they shut down the government because they want to repeal obamacare, i think you've seen polls. i know you have them yourself. that show even republican voters

don't want to absolutely throw out obamacare. and they certainly don't want to shut down the government because of it. if they do that, then i think they're doing the one thing that can cause them to lose control of the house. >> other sort of new strategy we've heard. the right wing is trying the use the delay of the employer mandate. we know the business community requested to attack president obama's character by calling him lawless and of course, invoking nixon which they just can't wait to do that. but constitutional scholars have said the executive branch is perfectly within its lawful discretion. why do we keep hearing about nixon? >> well, you know, it is funny, karen, as you know, president obama's constitutional lawyer. if in fact republicans were so sure of what the executive branch is doing is unconstitutional, somebody would have filed a lawsuit. the executive branch has a lot of leeway to decide what the rules will be in implementing a

policy. and that's all the obama administration is doing. in the long run, there will be obamacare. and in the long run, people will like it. that's actually what they are afraid of. people, you know, kaiser released a study last week that showed that about half of the people are going to get subsidies that will lower their premiums. people are going to like that a lot. and newt gingrich who now seem the voice of reason on the republican side, that tells you a lot. is saying if republicans will fight this, they ought to have something that they propose as a substitute for obamacare but they have nothing. >> let's hope they keep listening to the voices of newt gingrich and others. thank you both. coming up, once you're groping a great grandma, it really is time to go. the saga of san diego mayor bob

filner and his refusal to resign coming up. >> bob filner, best known for his work as the san diego mayor, as well as his role opposite michael keaton in 1999's batman. now, that might seem like a cruel joke about someone's appearance. in my defense [ bleep ] this guy. in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. so you want to drive moredream safely? of smart.. stop eating. take deep breaths. avoid bad weather. [ whispers ] get eight hours. ♪ [ shouts over music ] turn it down! and, of course, talk to farmers.

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prosecuted, stripped of their positions. court-martialed, fired, dishonorably discharged, period. it's not acceptable. >> that was president obama in may talking about the epidemic of sexual assault in the military. zero tolerance and the need for greater accountability. while that should be the appropriate response from our commander-in-chief, defense lawyers have perverted the

president's words to argue that they are having an unlawful influence on current sexual assault cases. in fact, in a number of cases, this argument resulted in charges of assault being dropped. several military judges have said the president's words have amounted to an unlawful command influence. that's right. the commander-in-chief tainted the jury pool in effect. so this month, the defense secretary chuck hagel had to issue a memo to senior leaders ordering that while they can publicly condemn sexual assault and other behaviors, judicial decisions must be based on fact and independent judgment. now, he also announced an internal plan designed to address the estimated 26,000 cases of unwanted sexual contact that were reported just last year. the plan includes legal representation for victim, signing jag officers to hearing and establishing greater oversight over the prosecution of the crime. as secretary hagel fends off

outside critics who say they cannot be handled within the military chain of command, internally he is trying the reforce idea that publicly condemning sexual assault can't be used as a defense against charges. meanwhile on capitol hill, a showdown is expected later this fall between two factions of lawmaker on. one side, led by missouri senator claire mccass kell would preserve it. and her colleague wants to take the prosecution outside the chain of command. and shouldn't that be where we go? let's take any unlawful command influence out of the equation. so that justice can finally be done. much more "disrupt" ahead. on the meantime, find us on facebook and tweet us. when you realize you need to switch to verizon, it's a reality check. i had my reality check when i'd be sitting there with my friends who had their verizon phones and i'd be sitting there like "mine's still loading!" i couldn't get email. i couldn't stream movies. i couldn't upload any of our music.

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bob filner have gun. women have been coming for accusing him. the latest was a 67-year-old, a great grandmother who volunteered at the san diego city hall. take a look. >> on the day that mayor filner grabbed me and kissed me, i was so surprised. i went home and cried. i just felt so sad. on the day that mayor filner came by my desk and asked me if i thought i could go eight hours in one night, i was shocked that he would say that to me. mayor filner, i am a mother, a grandmother, and a great grand mother. i have three sons, four grandsons, and two great grandsons. as our mayor, you should be but are not a role model for any of them. >> we've got much more on this story including the efforts underway to recall filner coming up next.

for more than a month, one

woman after the next has accused mayor filner of groping them. the lady you just saw is a 67-year-old great grandmother. starting tomorrow, recall organizers have just 39 days to gather more than 100,000 signatures. then come the possible legal challenges and all the heart aches of an organization campaign. in the meantime, the mayor has returned from treatment and says he'll be back at work on monday. as for the recall effort, he has responded with a note through, i kid you not, the law firm of payne and fears. filner didn't address the charges but merely emphasized that moving ahead saying, now is not the time to go backwards. meanwhile, calls for his resignation have come from all nine members of the city council. 70% of the voters and even the local hooters. joining me now, laura fink, the form he campaign manager who was the second woman last month to speak publicly about her experience with him.

and michael, politics editor at the san diego union tribune. thanks to you both. laura, i want to start with you. the mayor's support seem to be crumbling. nancy pelosi tweeted, quote, mayor filner is out of rehab. he should be out of the mayor's office. he should not subject san diegans to the pain and expense of a recall. you've had senators finestein and box that have asked him to leave. the recall has not always been so smooth. how is it at this point? >> it is a challenging threshold to reach. i think we have probably the heist threshold of any california city to recall a city official. that's what we're up against. the clock is our enemy. that's around 4,000 signatures a day, if my math is correct there. and that's an extraordinary thing. as political strategist i can tell that you you're going to need a lot of boots on the ground get to that done and to get those signatures verified. so it will take a herculean effort. i'm hopeful that the groundswell

of desire to have him removed from office might be able to overcome that. >> and to that point, are there the boots on the ground that you're talking about at this point? >> you know, i am not intimately involved with that particular campaign. i know that they have said that there are, that they have over 1,000 volunteers. and that they are kind of putting the pieces together to get this done and they're sprinting to do it. so i support that effort 100%. >> michael, what happens if the recall fails? he is also being investigated on unrelated charges for his spending on a trip to paris and for putting a pair of housing projects on administrative hold until the developers contributed money to other city projects. >> well, it is clear that shame is not going to convince him to step down. if the recall fails weerlg have to see, he is being investigated on the local, state and federal front on the various things you mentioned. the sexual harassment and the lurid behavior has really garnered the attention.

i think we'll have to see if those investigations bear fruit. if they do, that's where you'll see a negotiated settlement and way to get him out of office. the only chit he has is his mayoral office so he won't give that up until they really have something on him and he can get the best deal he can get. >> it strikes me that, we've heard this. it has been going on quite sometime. i guess my question to you, how is it possible that this is kind of stayed underground for so long? >> well, you know, bob filner has been a politician in this town for 30 years. he was in congress for 20 years. he had a reputation of, you know, approaching politics with a sledge hammer. very aggressive. sometimes a bully. and that has all been well record. tough on staff. we knew that. he had a reputation, it might sound old-fashioned, a womanizer. the sam having really surfaced, various meetd organizations including ours tried to look

into that during the campaign and it was just hard to get people to come forward to nail that down. there were rumors but as you know, we're not in the business of just reporting on rammers. so it was hard. there was a lot of suspicion within the democratic party. and i think we've already seen outsiders of the party accused of covering up for him. everybody regrets that it hadn't come up. but when you're dealing with sexual harassment, it is a very sensitive thing for the victims but also for the media to try to smoke that out if people are not coming forward. because we're very reluck daniel to do thing anonymously. >> and final question. you did come forward. and i guess my question to you, now that you've seen how many other women have come forward. are you surprised by the number of women who have come forward? or is this behavior that you pretty much, you know, expected while you were working for him. >> you know, it is hard. i'm not surprised but i don't know any of the women that have come forward and i was unaware of their experiences. i knew that he exhibited

challenging behavior and sexually harassing behavior but it was always, when i would have conversations with women it would be what does this count as? and they were not often worked for him but in positions that were beholen to him. in some sense you're in isolation. i think we're making a judgment now because we see 16, 17 women lined up, standing shoulder to shoulder and telling their stories and it is much easier to discern that way than it is when you are one person by yourself who is, who may hear a story here or there but does not necessarily know how pervasive it was. so in that sense, i was surprised. >> laura, thank you so much. and thank you for coming forward. thank you for your time. i think this case reminds us how important it is that we make sure we support victims who come forward so that women and men, when appropriate, know they'll be believed. >> absolutely. >> that does it for me. thanks for joining us. don't go anywhere. the ed show is coming up next. do the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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