today. >> good afternoon. i am joy reid in for martin bashir. it's tuesday, august 20th sore should i say a cruz day august 20th. >> socially requires that government becomes your god. >> my dad is very soft spoken. >> a young charismatic leader rose up. >> there is no more important regulatory reform that we can do. >> talking about hope and changing >> than to repeal every single word of obama care. >> a lot of republicans seem to believe if they can gum up the works and make this law fail, they'll somehow be sticking it to me. they'd just be sticking it to you. >> i don't think shutting down the government is a good idea. >> shutdowns are not a good move at all. >> go back to the original greek. politics had two parts. >> is he willgible to be president of the united states? >> he was in canada maybe not. >> he was definitely born in canada. >> you have to ask him that

question. >> antics meaninging blood sucking insects. >> ♪ >> and we open with a look at the hottest ticket in consecutive circles this month, the defund obama care summer tour. in a few hours, ted cruz whose canadian citizenship well get to in a minute will take the stage in dallas to explain why now is the time for a government shutdown if democrats won't help repeal president obama's signature health care law. >> obama care is at its most vulnerable it's ever been right now. there's bipartisan agreement it's not working. the wheels are coming off. the unions are jumping ship. >> defunding obama care is just as much his signature issue as the actual law is president obama. he's is so attendees probably

shouldn't expect the main act to stray too far from the hits that always produce the biggest applause. >> they say this is a fool's errand. you're tilting at windmills. if we can hold 41 republicans in the u.s. senate, or 218 republicans in the u.s. house, we can defund obama care. heritage action, the political branch of the same heritage foundation which invented the individual health care mandate in the 1990s and which is promoting the tour kicked things off last night in fayetteville, arkansas with seven more cities to go after dallas. unfortunately, the tour has already played with mishaps, chiefly not every republican thinks the fight to defund obama care is worth a government shutdown. take ron johnson from the swing state of wisconsin, for instance. heritage action ranked him its fifth most conservative senator and yet, he said last week that he opposes the effort. meanwhile, johnson's fellow

wisconsin and a possible 2016 hopeful for the republicans governor scott walker sounds ready to move past the latest defund obama care fight. >> do you make the point as senator jim demint says or do you stay away from shutdowns. >> i think shutdowns are not a good move at all. think most americans are center right and want limited government but they want a government that works. i don't hate government, i hate government that's too big and that doesn't work. so we need to show we can through reform make things work. >> let's get right to our panel. jared bernstein a senior fellow and dr. james peter, associate professor at he lie university, both msnbc contributors. welcome to both of you. jared, 40 votes be an counting to defund obama care in the house. why can't the republicans get on the same page with each other on whether or not they should go for repeal? >> because they can't. i mean, they cannot defund obama care.

they could make problems for obama care's implementation and it wouldn't be trivial. they're already creating problems like that at various state levels. what you need to understand here, it's slightly technical but it's important is that most of the funding for obama care just like medicare or social security or food stamps or medicare is on the mandatory side of the budget. that's the two the-thirds of the budget that is not the appropriations they appropriate every year. so since obama care is largely funded through mandatory part of the budget, you can't defund obama care. so point one, it's not going to happen. point two, and this i think is substantively in some ways more important, less technical, the president is exactly right in that clip that you played. i mean, what problem are we try stooflg here? because if it's the problem that health care costs are growing too quickly or too many people are uninsured, then obama care is the solution, not the problem. >> you no he what? i want to go to dr. james peterson this. ted cruz has become the poster

child both for repealing obama care and opposing immigration reform. i want to play a clip in which he tries to explain how both of them affect employment. >> if this bill is passed, it will increase african-american unemployment. if this bill is passed, it will increase youth unemployment. if this bill is passed, it will increase hispanic unemployment. >> so dr. peterson, you essentially have ted c cruz trying to answer jared's question by saying what obama care and immigration reform will hurt are black and brown people. >> yeah, i think republicans need it remove this page from their playbook which is trying to leverage their nonexistent outreach to communities of color and young people and poor people at a time where they're trying to be critical of this president. it sort of brands them more as hypocrites. today the kaiser family foundation released a report that shows that health care

costs are are not declining but not growing as quickly as they used to be. while they can't tie that directly to affordable health care, the fact that republicans said the costs would skyrocket has been proven not to be the case. so we just need to continue to look at the data. remember they're just playing politics in a way unfortunate for the american people. >> jared, we've been down this road before. when medicare first passed, you had a lot of the same hair on fire reactions to it, that would it bring on the advent of maxism. republicans seem to be going back to the future in terms of it arguing bad things that will happen they don't have data to support. >> it's a great point. let me amplify something james just said. if you compare the projections for medicare ab-medicaid spending to you to what they were a couple of years ago in 2010, they are down $900 billion over the next ten years. that's $900 billion less in the increase of health care spending of those two public programs and

exactly as he said, part of that is being associated with the implementation of the early stages of obama care. we can't be sure yet if those savings will stick, but they appear to be there from the get go. that's a very good sign. i think your point, joy, is exactly right of lots of famous politicians, ronald reagan for one, campaigned against medicare back in the mid 60s calling it creeping socialism. now it's a program that works very well, very efficient and much beloved by recipients. in this sense, i can almost understand the republicans' rationale in the following way where ted cruz is coming from. once obama care gets into place, i think it's going to work quite well. we have seen early signs of slower cost growth, particularly in these exchanges they're setting up. in many ways the best advertisement for obama care will be an implemented program that's actually helping people get access and affordability to health coverage. >> dr. james peterson, had you

ted cruz say we have to worry people will get addicted to obama care. he set it up as yet another program people will become addicted to on the public trough. >> yeah, it's absurd. they want to frame this as a taker's program. but access to health care is about human dignity. we live in a country that's simply too wealthy. we have too many resources for us to have this fight. what republicans want to do, there is a key day coming up in october where the obama administration has to make the case for young people to enter into the system. this makes the system flush when we have young healthy people involved who don't have the health care through other means. they want to try to disrupt that in any way possible. it's a calculated political move they're making here. like jared said this he can't defund it, but the american people need to look at the data. honestly, we need to keep pushing for single pair health care and push this program just like folk pushed social security and medicare to make it better for the american people, we need the affordable act to be

beneficial to the american people. >> i'm very much addicted to taking the kids to the doctor when they're sick. if they get hurt, that's a serious addiction i have. pretty much everybody else does too. >> i suffer from the same addiction too, jared, sadly. thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, while you were recessing, bluegrass edition, and why senator mitch mcconnell is now trolling his opponent. s' linked in profile? stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is claira. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪

for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. for my pain, i want my aleve. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands?

how nervous is senate minority leader mitch mcconnell about his 2014 primary

challenger matt bevin, nervous enough to spend money on an ad attacking mr. bevins' linksin page. >> newspapers say bevins was dishonest about his resume claiming he graduated from pl it. not true again. bevin never attended m.i.t. and m.i.t. has no record of bevin. >> if he's able to spend enough money and round up enough support to win his race, he'll face off against secretary of state alice lundergan grimes. let's hope she has her facebook and intran graham pages in order, too. i'm pleased to be joined by can i have john yarmuth, democrat from kentucky. thanks for being here. before i get to mitch mcconnell and how real the threat is to his re-election, there's been a lot of talk about new town hall eruptions over obama care. are you experiencing the same thing. >> not at all. what we're doing is actually getting a lot of people who are kind of confused about what they

need to be doing over the next few months stashting october 1, enrollment begins. people want to know how it affects them. they're more curious than angry. our governor steve bashir has done a phenomenal job of setting information networks and online opportunities access the system and get information. so we're running on our websites every day different kind of myth busters. there's a lot of misinformation out there. we're getting a very, very positive response because people right now, you know, they know it's right upon them. they want to make sure they're doing the right thing for themselves and their families and more interested in information. so they're not angry at all. they're just curious. >> down to mitch mcconnell now. he's getting some heat on the right from the tea party right. essentially saying he's a sellout, he is too much of a paul and that he hasn't taken the fight to obama or obama care. how real is that noise inside of his home state? >> oh, this is very real. first of all, we have a very,

very articulate impressive tea party candidate who is taking it to him. i mean, this is kind of the definition of political quick stand sand. mitch mcconnell no matter what he does, he keeps sinking. he alienates one side or the other. he is smart enough to know that for instance, you can't defund obama care. i i listened to your last segment. he knows you can't risk shutting the government down over health care law. that's his position as a responsible governor. but every time he talks like that, the tea party is down his throat saying you're a traitor to us. this is why he is in such a difficult spot, and those of us who are supporting alison lundergan grimes are enjoying the schadenfreude because he is in a very, very difficult spot. >> you literally had his campaign manager jesse benton saying he had to hold his nose to work for mcconnell. he was a rand paul guy.

there we see him a picture holding his nose to deal with mcconnell. the need for mitch mcconnell to key opt the rand paul faction. has he really coopted them or are they leveraging him to help rand become president? >> well, i think a lot of them are trying to leverage him. they understand they have him in this kind of spot. the idea he would be publicly u milliated by his campaign manager and the best he can do is put up that picture pointing to jesse benton holding his nose, that would never happen to mitch mcconnell in prior years. jesse benten would have been gone in five minutes. he knows he can't rick alienating the tea party because this primary challenge is very, very real. there was a surveil usa poll that indicated at that time, there were 340e7b8% of republicans in kentucky definitely were going to vote for mitch mblg consequently for re-election. that's a horrible spot for the

incumbent to be in. he knows he's in a difficult spot with his republican base. he knows all the energy is on the side of alison lundergan grimes in the general. he's got to do everything he can to make sure his base doesn't desert him. that's the dilemma he's in as the minority leader of the senate trying to do a responsible thing and hold the republicans in line there to keep them from doing something suicidal for the party and yet not jeopardizing his own stature in kentucky. the threat to him here is real. >> i'm going to let you play political proo prognosticator. does mcconnell survive that primary? >> i think he survives is the primary. he has tons of money. he'll spends whatever he needs to spends. he already has roughly $10 million in the bank. ultimately, and ultimately he'll prevail, but again, he's going to pay such a huge price to come through that primary. it's going to severely weaken him in the general election. and if you want me to prognosticate, i'm convinced he's going to lose next year.

that will be a great thing for kentucky and the country. >> thank you very much, congressman yarmuth. >> thanks, joy. >> appreciate it. still ahead, a live report on the developing situation in cairo and late area, the powerful stand your ground psa that has everyone talking. >> are you following us? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> okay. [ dad ] so i walked into that dealer's office and you know what i walked out with? [ slurps ] [ dad ] a new passat. [ dad ] 0% apr. 60 months. done and done. [ dad ] in that driveway, is a german-engineered piece of awesome. that i got for 0% apr. good one, dad. thank you, dalton. [ male announcer ] it's the car you won't stop talking about. ever. hurry in to the volkswagen best. thing. ever. event. and get 0% apr for 60 months, now until september 3rd. that's the power of german engineering.

because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies.

if you qualify, your rates won't go up due to your first accident. because making mistakes is only human, and so are we. we also offer new car replacement, so if you total your new car, we'll give you the money for a new one. call liberty mutual insurance at... and ask us all about our auto features, like guaranteed repairs, where if you get into an accident and use one of our certified repair shops, the repairs are guaranteed for life. so call... to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? "stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one...

and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too. here's our new house... daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. help keep teeth clean and breath play close.fresh and close. with beneful healthy smile snacks. with soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture ...it's dental that tastes so good new beneful healthy smile food and snacks be. >> this afternoon, president obama is meeting with top national security officials to determine whether to cut, part or all of the u.s.'s annual military aid to egypt. this comes as the military-controlled government has been targeting senior leadership of the opposition muslim brotherhood most provocatively with the arrest of the group's spiritual leader. muhammad baddy. we will go to cairo and foreign correspondent richard engel.

if you can start by the telling us the reaction to the arrest of the muslim brotherhood leader there in egypt. >> the rest of the muslim brotherhood leadership is now underground. they haven't had the ability to come out and give a public reaction. supporters have been using the internet and posting is messages on facebook and twitter denouncing this. the muslim brotherhood says a campaign is underway and they are actually correct in saying this to arrest not just baddei but many top leaders. they are planning to hold demonstrations. they keep talking about dem mobstrations but because the group has gone underground, the egyptian military has deployed on the streets. so far they haven't been able to mast numbers to hold the kind of street actions that they've been planning to. >> and richard, with this just extraordinary news of the potential to release former dictator hosni mubarak, who is paying a bigger public relations price right now at least on the streets there in cairo?

is it the government for the sort of crackdown and how har it has been or the muslim brotherhood still paying the bigger price with ordinary egyptians? >> there is a pendulum that swings in politics. i think right now, the pendulum is swinging in the military's favor. there was that bloody crackdown condemned by many egyp jpions and human rights groups. the death toll still somewhat unclear, probably more or less 1,000 people killed in just the space of several days. but the reaction among many people at least here in cairo has been to defend the military which might sound surprising but people were very unhappy with the muslim brotherhood. there has been an intense propaganda campaign on egyptian media 24 hours a day describing the muslim brotherhood as terrorists, describing them as saboteurs putting images of muslim brotherhood members who are in these demonstrations is carrying weapons, using weapons. so at least right now, the

pendulum seems to have shifted in the military's favor in terms of arresting the spiritual guide, that's not the kind of action that egyptians will be upset about. that's a direct action against the muslim brotherhood. >> if you talk for a moment about this prospect of mubarak being released. would he be safe in cairo? where would he go? is this something that is imminent? >> it's hard to foe if it's imminent. we spoke to his lawyer today at length. and he says that it should be imminent. he hopes it's going to be imminent. there is a court decision tomorrow that could decide to release him. he has been president mubarak has been in jail for about 2 1/2 years since he was overthrown. 2011. he's faced many different charges, almost all of them have been acquittals. he's been found not guilty in one case, however, he was found guilty of not protecting protesters who were killed by his security forces.

but he won an appeal. so he's now facing the same charges but in a different trial. so he could be released according to the lawyer, while he continues to face these judicial proceedings. effectively they're asking for him to be set out on bail or released while the legal proceedings against him continue. it's also political decision. this is not just a court decision. we should not assume that all of the judiciary in this country is operating independently from the rest of the events that are going on in this country. it would also be a statement from the military-backed government that times have changed. it wants to move on. and it wants to perhaps help some of its old friends. >> all right. extraordinary developments. richard engel, thank you. all right. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. but first, the undefeated 1972 miami dolphins honored today at the white house, 41 years later. so why now, mr. president? >> i know that some people may be asking why we're doing this

after all these years. and my answer is simple. i wanted to be the young guy up here for once. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.

there's a new way to fight litter box odor. [ woman ] hop on over! introducing tidy cats with glade tough odor solutions. two trusted names, one amazing product.

(announcer) at scottrade, our clto make their money do more.re (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars... plus, their live webinars. i use daily market commentary to improve my strategy. and my local scottrade office guides my learning every step of the way.

because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade... ranked "highest in customer loyalty for brokerage and investment companies." from ted cruz to william shatner, here are today's top lines. i'm not going to get into the legal debate. >> hey there, we hope you're doing well. >> ted cruz of texas is dealing with questions about his birthplace. >> i guess not all birther controversies are created equal. >> his berth certificate which shows he was born in alberta, canada. >> is that a weed on there or what? >> ted cruz wants everybody to know. >> i was born in canada. >> he's not canadian. >> my mother is a uz citizen. so i'm a citizen by birth. >> the canadians. they walk among us. >> ted cruz. >> william shatner, michael j. fox. monty hall. >> is he willgible to be president of the united states? >> he was born in canada, perhaps not.

>> ted cruz was asked about it. he produced his birth certificate. the president dragged his feet for years. >> i'm not sure where he was born. it's not. >> he was definitely born in canada. >> no doubt about it. >> all right. why doesn't president just produce his birth certificate. >> he spent a lot of the lot of his youth in indonesia. >> his early years were in hawaii smoking something. >> you think it was all racial. >> i'm shocked to find that gambling is going on in here. >> your wings, sir. >> thank you very much. >> if people now question ted cruz's birth certificate, is that racial? >> i'm not going to get into the legal debate. >> i don't know what the heck you're talking about. >> i'll let other people worry about the legal. >> number one, he's an intellectual and he went to harvard. >> i'm the product of christian education. >> god's dead. satan lives. there's no heaven. >> amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me that once was lost but now am

found. >> whether at the time cruz is is now or ever has been a canadian citizen. >> you are a dual citizen and are eligible to run for president, yes? >> i am not going to get into the legal debate. >> let's get right to our panel. joining us, michael eric dyson of georgetown university, and dana milbank, political columnist for the "washington post." professor, i want to read a statement that ted cruz sent to the dallas morning news, sent out today. said the dallas morning news said i may technically have dual citizenship. assuming that is true, sure, i would renounce any canadien citizenship. nothing against canada, but i'm an american by birth. as a u.s. senator, i believe i should only be an american. professor michael eric jackson, have we officially entered the age of birther irony? >> ironic to be sure. first of all, are you really reading the dallas newspaper to determine your citizenship? that alone is worthy of some

deconstruction. but what's interesting here is that is the ironies never cease to amaze me here. and the bitter hypocrisy of the right. now why don't we have a controversy here? because canada is not as nefarious as being born in kenya, the dark continent? so the reality is that you know, if it was good enough for the goose, it's good enough for the gander. if it's good enough for the donkey, it's good enough for the elephant. so i think here that the republicans are going to have to confront their own hypocrisy. again, of course, i'm sure president obama is smirking to himself or laughing lightly whether he he's not making ticking jabs at the miami dolphins suggesting that the controversy needs to be broadly and democratly applied. >> just to double-check though as a constitutional law expert, ted cruz is technically a canadian and american, right? >>, of course. >> just checking >> he's got dual citizenship, of

course. we acknowledge that. facts don't matter here. it's the per spepgs. the reality is we knew that barack obama, president barack obama was a citizen of the united states of america, but those fakes didn't -- that fact didn't seem to bother any on the right to going into conniptions about his own os tenable nonamericanness. we ought to have a little bit of fun here with our, you know, tongue in cheek analysis of mr. cruz's dual citizenship. >> i think canada just struck back, professor. i want to go to dana milbank. we saw how exercise and over the top a lot of people on the right got about barack obama's where he was born and demanding to see the birth srth. for the sake of consistency, should we now look for the tea party and others to go after ted cruz in the same way. >> no, i think the left now needs to go after ted cruz. i am demanding to see this albert at that time birth certificate with the raised seal. i want to know that ted cruz is

not from the yukon territory. i'm not satisfied he's renouncing his canadian citizenship. i want him to refouns his loyalty to the queen because canada is part of the commonwealth. of course, you're not seeing an equivalent response on the left now because they -- at least there's some consistency there. they thought the original obama birther thing was silly. this is silly, too. if ted cruz by some miracle gets elected president, well, a court can decide what a natural born citizen is. now, on the right, you can expect a few diehards to raise questions, particularly those fueled by rivals such as rand mule are looking for some advantage in the 20816 primaries but i think by and large they'll say look, this guy is one of our own. they'll fall in line behind him and move along. >> professor dyson, dana makes a really good point. because you already have some people in the ted cruz camp accusing allies of rand paul of

being the ones fomenting the neobirth irism because the two of them potentially could be jackying for president in 2016ively. >> absolutely right. i mean, it's a tempest in a teapot, so to speak or at least a tea party. the reality is that again, the reason as mr. milbank has indicated the left has not gone after this is because we try to operate by principles of fairness, decency and justice and the reality is if we were going to be just, how far, we'd have to push this birth irism a little bit more. but the fact is it's only of concern to those, you know, on the right and their squabbles trying to figure out who can outbirth the other, to can unbirth the other, to can dual citizenship the other guy because dual citizenship implication is i'm more pure than you are. you are divided in your allegiance but mine is unified

and singular. >> what's fascinating it's not clear which thing is more of a risk. it's either that the right looks hypocritical because they don't care as much where he was born as they claim barack obama not being born in the united states or whether or not this notion of him being less american sort of bricks the xenophobic part of their base. which of those twos things is more likely to be a threat to the gop right now in the. >> i think what's going on is at the time cruz is laughing about the whole thing because the whole notion everybody's talking about his eligibility to be president means people are accepting it's plausible he's a presidential candidate, this guy who has been in the senate for all of half a year and has done all kinds you have crazy things since he's arrived here. i think he's delighted to have this sort of thing going on right now. now, look, it does -- this is an interesting thing because he's one of the few latinos who is

prominent in the republican party. now he's a cuban. so that's a little bit different. but look, if they are rallying around ted cruz right now, perhaps they can -- the republicans can say that they have shown some generosity of spirit in being more welcoming to their party. but i think that's really a minor issue here. >> if there's going to be a canadian president, my vote is for william shatner. i want to thank you both, michael eric dyson and dana milbank. >> coming up, beau has a new friend but is there a shady side of sunny? my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen.

i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. and magood and close.s dream a reality. discover the new way to help keep teeth clean and breath fresh. new beneful healthy smile food and snacks. he'll love the crunch of the healthy smile kibbles. you'll love how they help clean. with soft, meaty centers, and teeth cleaning texture healthy smile snacks help keep a shine on his smile. it's dental that tastes so good. new beneful healthy smile food and snacks. that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you.

so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients... plus, there are no networks, and you'll never need a referral to see a specialist. join the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp... and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide.

with beautiful and durable. old and worn out let's head to the one place with the flooring we want, the know-how we need, and low prices that won't trample our budget. then let's do some simple placing, locking... and admiring. a better-looking floor is just a few steps away. and... they're affordable steps. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. saratoga hickory laminate is a special buy. just 99 cents a square foot. by tweet, by tumbler and by blog, the news broke from the white house in a firestorm.

sunny, a female 1-year-old portuguese waterdog has officially joined bo and the first family. is this some sort of canine can nard, a diversion from all the storm clouds the gop insists are hanging over the white house or perhaps the president knowing full well the machinations of his foes is just following 0 the age old political maxim, if you want a friend in washington, get a dog or in this case, two. coming up, we'll switch gears. the powerful and chilling psa that could reenergize the debate over stand your ground. stay with us. [ male announcer ] what do you get when you take 100% whole grain brown rice and wheat and bake it with real sweet potato or savory red bean? a new line of triscuit crackers with a delicious taste and a crispier crunch. brown rice triscuit. a new take on an old favorite.

just over one week till the 50th anniversary of the marm on washington. in many ways, we're a long way from dr. king's dream of judging fellow human beings based on the content of their character made clear in the story of trayvon

martin, judges and pursued without his pursuer knowing the first thing about him. the organization coalition to stop gun violence has releases a powerful psa targeting the controversial stand your ground laws that are often blamed for situations like the one trayvon martin found himself in. take a look. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> who's saying they shot who? >> a guy is saying is he shot a person. oh, my god. >> an officer is there. he has someone at gunpoint. they're going to handle the situation from here. >> oh. oh, my god. it's a young boy. my god. i've just seen somebody killed. >> and for more, i'm joined by msnbc contributor goldie taylor

and back with us political analyst michael eric dyson. goldie your reaction. your quick reaction to the spot? >> i was disappointed. i this i that for those of us who certainly support and agree with the idea that gun laws in this country ought to be reformed and that we ought to take a very hard look at the so-called stand your ground loss around the country and the vet very work that people like alec are doing to push this kind of legislation that it ought to be roed back while i agree with the position, this kind of depiction, this kind of interpretation of the sets of events that evening i think go over the line. i say that as someone who has run an advertising and public relations agency. someone who spent a brand market on behalf of global brands that this is a bridge much, much too far. >> you know, i want to go

michael. do you disagree with goldie. >> no, but i tell you, this is conceptual and visual reparations for me. in the courtroom, there was a one side presented and it was a mock-up and delivery of the prosecution's belief about what happened from george zimmerman's perspective to trayvon martin that night. why not have in what roland bark calls the republic of the image a counter narrative presented visually that puts forth the argument not only is trayvon martin vulnerable to the vicious and arbitrary will of a particularly private citizen, but the way in which the bodies have added up. it's not just trayvon but the name tags taped to those other victims of both police and i think citizen violence is a very poignant and powerful representation of an argument that has to be made. since goldie taylor has worked with npr, we know that visual articulation is a poignant one that gets to the heart of the matter. i believe it's a very powerful

piece. >> and goldie, i'm wondering whether or not what you feel went too far was just that end shot which is just so arresting of seeing all the bodies where you expect the ending which is trayvon martin's body laying on the ground but you see all the bodies adding up. i felt like what they were trying to do is to show laws like this that open the door to using deadly force because you're supported by law, they do cause an escalation in violence because it takes away that sort of fear that if i use my gun, i might go to jail. did you get that from the spot at all? >> no, actually get that part of the spot. you have multiple bodies laid out as victims of gunshot wounds, i think at the end of the day, you've got to be cognizant who the person who is receiving the message is. if you're looking to grow your tent, to grow your base and audience of people who are receptive to these messages, you have to give them messages they

can embrace. this is the kind of psa people would turn away from. >> i want to play or at least read you the response to the psa from george zimmerman's defense attorney. he again said stand your ground didn't figure directly into the zimmerman trial. the two jurors who are spoken out have both cited the law. it did alter the way the jury instructions were written in the case. a lot of people do believe that these laws do encourage shoot first or shoot to kill in these cases. i want to play michael eric dyson a little bit of sound of president obama talking about that very thing and get your response. >> i know there's been commentary about the fact that the stand your ground laws in florida were not used as a defense in the case. on the other hand, if we're sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms, even if there's a way for them

to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we'd like to see? >> and michael eric dyson, ohio right now is contemplating a law that would allow people not to have a duty to retreat. these loss are being added to, not being repealed. >> it's the mathematics of addiction, not sub traction. the reality is look, this psa is an act of art, it's an act of visual and rhetorical warfare against the very invisibility and inaudability of those people even though we feel we heard trayvon martin's voice, his voice is muted. and obscured by the onslaught of the right wing media machinery as well as those who stand up in this case for george zimmerman. i think again the president was making a poignant point here to suggest that look, these laws have encouraged people to have bravado and a wild west mentality as opposed to saying look, i have a duty to backup

when i think my life is at stake here and run for cover so to speak and not stand there and try to either gun somebody down or to stand my ground in a way that ends up multiplying victims and their vulnerabilities. i think the point of the bodies is to suggest this is not an isolated incident. this time after time has been proved to be linked and i think the official and poetic linking of these bodies to trayvon martin is a powerful one that delivers something that times legal arguments themselves can't make. >> ugh know, goldie, one of the other linkages in the hey tron martin case that was jarring was the sense that african-americans have fought back against racial profiling for a very long time. this case seemed to take what police can do in profiling somebody and then using deadly force because they say the person was a threat and transferring that authority on to a civilian. so you now have in new york this big stop and frisk case where the police lost that case, a judge ruled it was racial

profiling. but you now have ray kelly, the nypd chief potentially in line to be the next homeland security director. ben jealous was on this network saying that president obama would get the living pushback from civil rights groups if he tried to nominate ray kelly. can you imagine in then environment ray kelly actually being nominated for homeland security chief? i certainly pray not. i pray there are people around this president and the president himself who is maybe rethinking the notion of putting someone like ray kelly into such an esteemed position where he would be responsible for our collective homeland security when the black and brown men of men and boys of new york city cannot trust trust ray kelly with their collective security. i think that in itself, there are deep problems with the idea that kelly would advance so far. ray kelly himself a few decades ago stood against this very idea of racial profiling. the very ideal today he seems to want to back up and push along.

i think that is something to be disappointed about if it should ever come. and i believe with that certain communities would be right to push back against this is administration if they made such appointment. i don't believe by any means this is a perfect administration although i certainly believe in many of the things that the obama administration has been able to push forward and the kinds of fights they are waging. this would not be one of them for me. >> all right. thanks so much, goldie taylor and michael eric dyson. >> thank you. >> we will be right back to clear the air. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w...

...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. iand we're talkingl time with maria about the walmart low price guarantee. you got your list? let's go. if you find a lower advertised price they'll match it at the register. really... yeah, in a "jif". you ready? what?! that's the walmart low price guarantee backed by ad match. bring in receipts from your local stores and see for yourself. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

glass on floors. daily chores. for the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal.

it kills germs so you heal four days faster. neosporin. use with band-aid brand bandages. congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment. \s. it's time now to clear the air. yesterday, during his press conference about a major gun seizure, new york mayor michael bloomberg said this. >> if i had a son and that son

was stopped, i would have some real questions about it. >> but then he added this. >> i actually thought that bill thompson said it right. bill thompson said he didn't like abstop and frisk but he had a son and he wanted to make sure the kid didn't get killed. >> bill de blasio who is very likely to be stopped and fricked in new york city has said is he opposed racial profiling though it's not clear that even he would completely end the practice. as someone living in new york and who does have son who's statistics show will be prime targets for stop and frisk, this is a matter of urgency. at the end of the day, the justification that bloomberg and ray kelly use ford stop and frisk is not about statistics because sticks are not on their side. three separate university studies failed to find any correlation between stop and frisk and the huge drop. violent in new york. in fact, it's just as likely that gentrification of some of

new york's toughest neighborhoods or the economic boom during the clinton years or the aiming out of notorious gangs or time and circumstances brought crime down as much or more than the random moou humiliation of young black and brown men. the success rate for finding a wep or drugs in stop and frisk is just in 147 stops for african-americans, one in 99 for hispanics and one in 20 for whites. and with more than 685,000 mostly black and brown people stopped in 2012, only around 3400 guns were taken off the street. meanwhile, the number of gun homicides in 2011 was virtually the same as the year bloomberg took office, 2002 when just over 97,000 people were stopped and fricked. it seems we have a math problem. what mayor bloomberg is left with and what will be part of his legacy is this notion that to their way of thinking, black and brown people are simply more criminal than white people. so they will should accept the

idea of being stopped and fricked for the greater good of new york. in fact, nirnt communities should welcome what he calls the inconvenience of being treated like a criminal by the ncmd because they're also more likely to be the victims of violent crime. yet, we don't stop and frisk young white men entering is public buildings or schools or theaters in response to the statisticing that young white men are the most likely to be mass shooters. mayor bloomberg, you've done admirable work advocating gun control. i love your idea of letter grades on restaurants. it's genius. and new york is indeed a safe city because of smart policies on guns. but three-quarters of the drop in violent crime in the city took place before stop and frisk and before you, including during the era of community policing an era partly led by ray kelly, your police commissioner. it is possible to be aggressive on gun control to, have a smart stepped up police presence in high crime neighborhoods and to protect and serve all new yorkers without treating some