natalie has some responses. wages to $15. the strike is planned for next >> kevin said the flu. hardly a predictable strategy, thursday, august 29th. a former of ceo said raising the though. you can't simply stop when you hit your target. minimum wage would be bad for >> and next to fan of the dough business. >> the average restaurant in the united states makes 4.6% profit. bull did it. congratulations, eric. my friend jay reynolds he the labor cost is 30 plus stopped adding pounds when he percent. how you can raise the minimum made the kids finish their own wage almost double and expect to sustain that? i think obama care will drop 15% meals. "morning joe" starts right now. to 20% of small businesses off the face of the earth. if they do this minimum wage thing there will be another 15% to 20% that goes away. good morning. you can't afford it. thursday, august 22nd. >> companies make money. expand. i'm brian shactman alongside hire more people. so they want to make as much money as possible to do that. nicole wallace who has 2,000 if they increase wages it hurts twitter followers and joe is not here. >> why do you need more than profitability and maybe they don't expand. what's the philosophy how this that? >> i feel insecure. discussion goes on wall street? >> why does anybody need more >> you never say business owners than that? say yes we need to increase >> you want hundreds of minimum weak. that never happens. hard to hear a specific time and

thousands. also with us former adviser to say all right it must be true. it's interesting we last talked paul ryan dan senore. about walmart when they wouldn't raise wages in d.c. and costco and msnbc's steve kornacki. prize themselves having great relationships with their employees and it makes me >> automated things. wonder. in terms of profitability costco gets a much better multiple from the market than walmart. i would get these things like maybe it would help some of these companies if they had hair supply companies would better employee relations. automatically follow me. >> how would that issue have >> you have to explain this to me. >> terrible. played say in a campaign where >> all the hair salon companies the two sides fall? in the world can follow me. >> on the question of minimum >> ceo of metropolitan capital wage. >> or doubling it. >> it's one of the basic advi adviser. you're on twitter as well. >> i am. philosophical divide between the >> feeling a little fragile. parties. to the idea that companies never nicole got 2,000 in one day. say go ahead and raise it they say don't. do not raise minimum wage it >> this morning we have a will hurt the bottom line, it's firsthand look how the tragedy going to hurt our business. was averted in georgia the minimum wage has been raised how school shooting after a gunman snuck into the school armed with many times? identify never seen a study that

a semiautomatic weapon and 500 linked that. >> steve, is there any piece of information that could make you rounds of ammunition. oppose -- is there anything you could learn about how it could antoinette tuft, why she's being stifle -- is there anything that called a hero. could convince you to advocate >> let me talk to them and let's see if we can woke it out so you don't have to go away with them against. is there any economic condition in this country such as our for a long time. >> i'm already on probation. employment rate, our under >> no, it doesn't matter. employment rate that could make you say as much as i am purely i can let them know you haven't in favor of raising wages even i tried to harm me. am nervous about how fragile -- that doesn't make any difference. you didn't hit anybody. >> there's not a simple answer. let me ask you this, ma'am. i'm raising the basic argument he didn't hit anybody, he just like we said with u.p.s. and papa johns on the question of shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him so, health care, there's reason to they won't shoot him or anything skeptical of when a mcdonald's like that? ceo comes out and says oh, no he wants to give himself up, is that okay? don't raise minimum wage. he won't shoot him? we hear that from companies all the time. >> yes, ma'am. that's the way the system works. >> tell the officers don't come companies are going to speak for in shooting or anything and i'll their bottom line. buzz them in. >> you don't accept raising wages would wipe small >> okay. >> so hold on sit right there. businesses off the map? >> you can't raise to it any i'll buzz them in so you'll know level. there's a discussion about how

when they are coming, okay. much and when. the basic proposition we should okay. so just stay there calm. defer to the ceo of mcdonald's don't worry about it. oh, no it will hurt business. i'm gonna sit right here so theology see that you didn't try >> don't want to defend to harm me, okay. mcdonald's, but he's speaking it's gonna be all right sweetie. for a lot of people not just i just want you to know that i small business owners but people who understand the plight of love you. i'm proud of you. small business owners. that's a good thing that you've lot of them will get wiped off just given up. the map if they have to >> my first reaction what would implement obama care and raise i do in that situation. so glad to have people like that the wage. >> i don't have a number in in our schools. front of you or anything but i'm >> heroic. not arguing for indiscriminately alex confessed to trying to make raising the minimum wage. me cry. i listened to that. but companies saying oh, no -- to think of someone having the let's talk in five or ten years cool and then the love for someone in their darkest hour to see how many small businesses it's amazing. went under because of obama >> maybe it's a man versus woman. care. >> isn't it too late? how can i disarm that guy before >> i think what we're talking about right now is symptomatic he starts damage. >> it's to communicate such of something bigger and real. calm. how she says them. if you look in the 2009 the s&p i can only imagine the fear that's inside her. has doubled, more than doubled but to keep that fear at bay and since 2009. if you look at who those gains

keep talking to keep the guy have gone to, 50% of the gains have gone to to the top 1% most down. >> at the end she was so relieved and exhaled, oh, lord i wealthy in the country. if you look at 80% of the gains was so relieved. have gone to the top 5%. a lot of people at this table so since the financial crisis have kids that go school and you give your kids every day to 2008-2009 the really wealthy in these people and they get this country are doing criticism every day for what we are doing in our school system. fantastically, the quantitative >> like divine intervention. easing, but no growth agenda, i'm going to connect with this nothing to help small businesses person who i don't know at all grow and hire more and so you and find a way to be in his head have this situation where we're and see what will calm him down. stuck in washington where people who can speculate with cheap amazing. >> i probably would try to go money which is wall street are after him. doing just fine. they are making a ton of money. >> i know. it's an amazing thing. everyone else is not. i see nothing in the president's to think they people are in agenda in the last year or the these incredible position of next two years that says to me power on the other end of the there's a real growth agenda to phone. we have this sense that some expand the number of small phone it in and then there's businesses when it comes to the this rising to the occasion. mark, keep those in the market it's inspiring. >> cool. vibrant and strong, keep them one of those great moments. hiring people. at the end we have a discussion about raising the minimum wage just one month to go before the as though that's the anecdote to president's health care plan this -- >> it's not the cause.

begins and some businesses >> every single politician has remain skeet cal. talked about small business citing the affordable care act, until the cows come home. u.p.s. huge international company announced plans to 6% below 2007, median income is remove 15,000 spouses from its health care plan because of still below 2007 levels and we anticipated higher costs. spouses of u.p.s. employees who all know very few people in this do not work and, therefore, have world can have close to a middle no other health care options can income lifestyle after minimum remain on the company's plan. wage. it's one of those things where you don't know until you try. a spokesperson said the move will save the company about $60 i don't think they will double the minimum wage. take a look at that chart. million. steve, you know, the truth is some companies have done this in household median income is well the past anyway if there are below where it was in 2007 and other options. now we have house prices back on so is this something that's almost a political motive that the rise and you have interest people are making out of it or rates will go back up and people what do you take? can't afford houses and then >> i don't know if it's a political motive. inflation creeps in and you'll very possible here and other have trouble with the middle situations like this this is a very convenient excuse for a class. >> even wall street must company that's absorbing, when you look at the rise of health recognize that without a vibrant care costs -- every company that middle class to buy things -- provides health insurance for its employees has absorbed huge >> they don't care, because they will be out of the trade and on increases even before there was to the next one. such a thing as obama care. ults a zero sum game.

if you look at the specific fees >> don't know to say they don't cited by u.p.s. as a reason for care. i think they do care. dropping them they are a they might not care for the pittance compared to what the right reasons but they do care rise in health care has been. to have a strong middle class it raises the question to me does help the economy. just because the possibility, because they are saying it's it does help banks. because obama care, maybe it's it just flows through the an opportunity for the company economy. it does help. to save some money and pin it on you can say they might not have something controversial. >> we should consider that this sort of thing should have been anticipated and very easy to blame the companies but in fact the policy may be flawed. a lot of companies, large franchise companies saying that fil philantropic reasons. it's horrible. has to be stopped. their franchisees will most >> obama is working on it. likely once obama care kicks in >> still ahead the president reduce flows fewer hours because begins his bus tour to address of the health care costs. rising tuition costs. you would think when they were planning -- when they were that's an interesting planning for this they would conversation with arne duncan have anticipated these sorts of and cokie roberts will be here. things. there's this poll in july that and why republicans shoulder the "wall street journal" did, more like ike. the commission showed 47% of the american people is against obama "the national review" say why care at this point. conservatives got president support for obama care is down eisenhower wrong the first time. to 34%. and why a false claim on her then these stories come out.

you get the sense this whole fishing claim is making thing was not terribly well-planned for. you can think about those headlines in wyoming for liz cheney. numbers continue to go in this bill karins, a check on the direction. >> do you think that if some of forecast. >> something you've never seen these companies that have made before. these decisions before or during this comes from louisiana. the presidential campaign do you we've seen pictures of the after think that mitt romney and paul matthew sink holes. ryan would have had better luck watch these trees get swallowed communicating and making people by this sinkhole underneath this understand the dire consequences. >> absolutely. water. we had an abstract discussion it just keeps going. the trees on the left side don't about obama care during the move one inch and those trees, campaign. now we're watching what's the rest in peace. mess of obama care. why does the obama completely gone. administration putting in these incredible stuff there. delays and changes? growing sinkhole. they recognize that there's huge assumption paris, louisiana. problems. >> you defend it morrow bustly >> holy cow. than they do. >> let me show you our fire >> it's funny you mention mitt stats. there's at that report out romney or raise the point why yesterday we ran out of money didn't they plan for this. our federal budget has been all part of the planning is what used up to fight the wildfires mitt romney did in across the country. massachusetts. in massachusetts mitt romney what's interesting we actually haven't had that bad of a fire season compared to the last two created the blueprint that became obama care nationally. years. only burned half the acreage. employer coverage increased in i don't know who is making that massachusetts. what we have right now in terms fire budget. as far as the fires burning

of employers dumping employees from their coverage is more right now 51 uncontrolled wildfires, all across the west. anecdotal. we have stories like u.p.s. or 14 of those are burning in papa johns or olive garden. idaho. we're at the peak of our we have a few companies seeing wildfire season and they are busy out there and it continues an punt to blame this on obama to be hot and dry and that's where the drought is too out care. in massachusetts what the plan west. as far as temperatures, we hit 90 yesterday in new york city based on i want increased. and chicago. first time in a month. >> delays are good fodder. it's the middle of summer. >> these are big companies. companies like u.p.s., huge today another warm humid day, much of the country but we'll payroll. >> how much does this, has this deal with afternoon thunderstorms. been a trend anyway before obama we'll get airport delays today care and how much does it affect late this afternoon, hit or miss storms around new york airports, profitability for these companies? >> when i think about u.p.s. d.c., philadelphia and down they are the largest union there with our friends in employer, one of the largest and atlanta. looks pretty good for your you look at their competitor travel considering it's the middle of summer. which is fedex which is not. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. they are already a pretty big disadvantage. it's not surprising they would try to find any place to cut so i'm checking out the jetta. 34 hwy mpg. check. costs. >> i did a small documentary about u.p.s. and fedex and both pride themselves on what they do for their hourly workers and no-charge scheduled maintenance. check.

and here's the kicker... 0% apr for 60 months. salaried workers. i empathize with what you say and who got it? this guy. but it's a hard decision for and who got it? this guy. them to go public with. the perception of u.p.s. is a and who got it? this guy. that's right... very employee friendly company. [ male announcer ] it's the car you won't stop talking about. ever. >> you hope they have a lot of company in this decision to take hurry in to the volkswagen best. thing. ever. event. spouses off. and get 0% apr for 60 months, now until september 3rd. >> do you think companies will follow suit? >> yes. they are a very big employer. that's the power of german engineering. if they can do it, why can't others sort of, you know, hide behind them and do it as well. >> steve, there's your trend. >> we have one example where this was implemented. obama care happened before. it happened with mitt romney in massachusetts. we didn't see this happen. to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mitt romney could have spoken it mother. mother! during the campaign because he traveling is easy with the venture card did it. because you can fly any airline anytime. >> first, we could spend a whole two words. show relitigating the double miles! similarities and differences this guy can act. between romney care and obama wanna play dodge rock? care. oh, you guys! >> hours. and with double miles you can actually use,

>> in the interest of ratings let's table that debate right you never miss the fun. beard growing contest and go! now. i would say that this thing is, ♪ i think u.p.s. is a really big i win! company. you cited papa johns and olive what's in your wallet? garden. papa johns is one of the companies i was citing. [ female announcer ] only aveeno daily moisturizing lotion >> they were big romney donors. has an active naturals oat formula >> these are big companies. that creates a moisture reserve so skin can replenish itself. we have huge payrolls. aveeno® huge problem with naturally beautiful results. implementation. the question you raise about whether or not this is bad for employee morale which is what u.p.s. and fedex of this world invest in a lot of brand equity in. it might be. this won't be debated and addressed with their employees in a vacuum. there's a big national discussion that will be happening over the next 18 months about how the implementation of this massive new government program that was passed by this president is working out. it's not like u.p.s. woke up one day and decided to stick it to its employees. there's a big discussion about a major program being put in place and it will be stifling to companies. >> we go from expenses which is

a major issue to wages and coalition group are calling for a nationwide strike of fast food workers. employees in eight cities are planning a walkout at fast food restaurants to increase hourly let's take a look at the morning papers.

"san diego union-tribune," mayor bob filner may be finally on its way out of office. >> thank god. >> seriously. >> it's an embarrassment. >> how many women does he have to molest. >> five weeks of accusations from as many as 18 women. the embattled san diego mayor has reached a settlement. the terms will not be made public until the city council votes on the proposal on friday. experts speculate filner will resign in exchange for the city council paying some of his legal fees and damages. >> why should the city have to pay for anything. this is like creepy. >> 18 is the number. how many women? looks like 18. >> why should the taxpayers of san diego pay for his -- >> leverage. >> we got former teen heartthrob david cassidy who faces a felony

dwi charge after an arrest in albany, new york. he was arrested by an officer by tom jones. this prompted cassidy to make a reference to what's new pussy cat. the officer didn't get the reference. >> he wasn't amused. >> tom jones. old school. cassidy is 62 years old. houston chronicle, white house says delaware attorney general beau biden is set to be released from the hospital. he has a mass in his brain. and he was popular guy with "morning joe" and, obviously that's a young guy. >> eerie because something similar happened to his father in 1988 he set out to run for president. he dropped out of the race. if he didn't dropout of the race he had an aneurysm. tv host dr. phil sparked

outrage on twitter for posing the question if a girl is drunk is it okay to have sex with her. the tweet was deleted but the backlash prompted a petition asking for an apology. a rep for the show said the tweet was to be a poll for an upcoming show not a statement and apologized. >> i think that's when big stars don't manage their twitter accounts and you have -- >> do you need to poll? >> that's what happened to any cole. >> it takes on a life of its own. >> twitter is bad news. >> i love how she says the twitter. >> i like how he r.s the box. >> you learn about the box. >> what is the bot. >> automated twitter handles. >> those hash tag thing in >> no. >> i don't even know how to write one. >> you get it, you get automatic followers. >> they will scan the twitter,

they will find key words in your bio that would make you interesting or relevant to their work. >> there's steve's followers. they are not people who are actually interested in what he has to say. steve's followers are consumers and pitching products. >> suppliers of like hair supply products. >> like the periodical. they think he runs a salon. >> get these -- >> you're kidding me. >> twitter isn't very smart. i did go on -- >> this is good stuff and i bought it. >> you bought some gel. brian needs some. >> i'm going anti-gel now. i got a new look. "wall street journal" -- there she is again. >> i never heard the phrase i'm going anti-gel. >> you should twitter that. can i do that. >> you work on twitter and i'll

work on the story. s.e.c. will require new rules to ceos to show the gap on pay. how you can do that? >> to disclose -- >> how can they control the pay gap between regular employees and ceo? >> well i think there's pressure already when you see some of these absolutely ridiculous pay packages that shareholders get to vote. they didn't used to get to vote on pay packages on the ceo and management. now they can. it makes awful headlines when you have a ceo that makes 500 times than your average employee. >> it's market force. it's peer pressure. it's the scrutiny of the spotlight. >> it's embarrassing for some of them. yeah. it works. >> joining us now on the political playbook, politico's editor-in-chief has a lead story.

titled the great democratic hope, the government shutdown. explain. >> right. what they are hoping for is that republicans will light themselves on fire and light the way to a democratic revival. democrats have a real rob. under current trends we're heading for a status queue election in 2014 with those mid-terms. usually presidential, the president's party, incumbent's party loses ground in the sixth year of a presidency and it looks like democrats will have a very hard time taking back the house under current trends. they don't have a lot of ability to control their own faith. what they are hoping for is a big gift wrapped president from republicans, conservative republicans who are willing to shut down the government in a showdown with president obama next month. >> it won't happen. john, as much as many of my friend on the other side want it it won't happen. there are a handful of senate republicans that are talking about doing this. but at the end of the day the house congressional leadership, republican leadership is totally

opposed to this. >> i think what's happening republicans are showing some spine with the most conservative elements of their own party saying this would be a terrible political strategy and willing to stand up against it. that's a change in the last few years where a lot of establishment republicans kept their mouth shut because they are afraid of the tea party. >> what superwiis up with the g of maine? >> he's been a free wheeling unfiltered guy and this may be finally catching up with him. because he keeps making offensive statements. he had another one the other day. republicans are really worried about heading into an election with this guy on the ticket. you poll his policies, like 60% we talked to one republican pollster, put his name against it and it goes down to like 40. >> in wyoming liz cheney is

trying to get the senate seat there. and she's run into a few speed bumps this one has to do with her fishing license. >> she went, a lot of good wyoming people do they like to fish. 72 days later went to apply for a fishing license. under wyoming law you got to be there for a year. the other day she paid a fine for making a false statement on her fishing license. big deal, obviously not. but a problem politically. she's running for the senate. in politics you're in a terrible position when people are laughing at you. this is kind of a funny thing and, you know, sometimes we get remembered for the most ridiculous things. i think this is one of those things liz cheney is worried about. >> a lot better than sexting. thank you, john harris. coming up next, yesterday we showed you a great catch from this guy outfielder, jason heyward and last night he almost

lost his career in a split second. we'll tell you how jason heyward is doing this morning and more in sports. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend? no. [ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ at&t mobile share for business. always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did my research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18

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what did she do wrong? she got injured and wanted to market her company. what are people doing on twitter all day. >> we'll get to that. let's go baseball first. blue jays and yankees, ichiro suzu suzuki, his hit is 4,000 in his professional car. ty cobb, pete rose reached that milestone. 2,772 in the little leagues. the rest from when he played in japan. he had a great bronx welcome. it's great. this guy is a classy honorable guy. i hope he gets his 3,000 in the u.s. the yanks beats the blue jays 4-2. this is the stuff that scares the daylights out of you. jason heyward drilled in the face by jonathon niese. broke his jaw. he needs surgery. he'll be out four to six weeks. the braves won the game 4-1. glad it's not worse. >> i think i'm taking my boys to

a mets game this weekend against the tigers. >> good seats are still available. talk to people in two years mets will be buried. >> haven't they been saying that for years. mets aren't a growth stock. by season tickets now. >> years from when? >> from now. >> that's the prediction. astros and rangers, another scary one. max at-bat for houston. that glances off the should ear little bit. got a bloody nose and he goes to the hospital for overnight observation. again, if they threw the ball 20 miles per hour you could get really hurt that's 90 miles per hour. then bottom nine game tied bases loaded elvis andrus sac fly to left center and the throw is just way, way off the mark. rangers get a walkoff 5-4 win. then 2013, tracking him through

the field and take his shirt off. >> i like how you mention your fantasy team. it's like an investor talking. >> if you knew my fantasy team you know i'm not talking too much. rays and orioles, chris davis, i don't have him on my fantasy team. 46 home runs. o's take a 4-2 lead. we go to the top of the ninth, two outs, runners on the corners, great way to end the game. kelly johnson trying to steal, matt weiner gets him out. rays lose, sox stay. nationals and cubs. this is not coordinated. that's a 57 mile-per-hour curveball. struck him out. still waiting for that thing to close. 57 is fast for me but that's small. let's go to the u.s. open story. former champion maria sharapova pulled out of the tournament. >> because she's injured.

>> she has bursitis. she was a hockey player. she just numbled that bad boy up. >> baseball player takes illegal drugs. she's a woman she done do that. >> she being unfairly treated because she's a female. >> you sneer at the mention that she's injured. >> i'm not speaking for the majority. >> female athletes have less ridiculous than male athletes. >> sugar sharaprova -- >> marketers -- >> they are interested in sugar. >> like dominos.

>> dan has a 5 and a 4-year-old, he goes the world sugar on twitter. >> or they work for a presidential campaign. now you can't say -- >> if you remember one thing before we get off this bus. >> this is something i would do to my 5-year-old. you don't want to hand your beer for someone to hold to just anybody. especially in arizona. this ticket holder was booted from a game after security saw him hand his beer to his son. he said he was just taking a picture and wasn't allowing the 15-year-old to drink. >> it wasn't like he was 3. >> still if you hold it. 200 uncover officers in arizona and department of liquor license, they told him he could be arrested -- maximum penalty two years in jail. >> come on. arizona cardinals should be lucky anyone wants to go to their games. >> and drink their beer. >> $10 beer.

>> you don't want to spill it. it's a dollar an ounce. coming up, willie sits down with the stars of the new hit movie "the butler." talking about race and their roles in the film. >> they were amazing. >> up next "the washington post" has some harsh words for president obama following yesterday's horrific attacks in syria. "morning joe" will be right back. play close. good and close.

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hasn't seen since 1988 when saddam hussein gassed thousands of iraqi kurds. the scene on the ground shock. the images difficult to watch. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the story. >> reporter: the dead covered the floors of improviced clinics. no visible injuries, no blood. they appear to be sleeping. survivors were doused with water to wash off the chemicals rebels say killed so many. their symptoms, shortness of breath, dilated pupils and panic. this girl shouts "i'm alive, i'm still alive" as a man tries to calm her. her parents and sister did not survive. about a third of the dead are children rebels say. their bodies laid out in rows, killed as they slept in their homes. we spoke by skype to an opposition activist near the attacks. >> do we still have humans on earth that they can see how

assad is killing those innocent children just because they said we want freedom, we want our dignity back. >> reporter: these are some of the least graphic images from dozens of videos released by the syrian opposition and unverified by nbc news. many too disturbing to broadcast. >> that is disturbing, and horrible. >> reporter: we showed the footage to an in chemical weapons expert. >> they are cosimilar to chemic weapons attack. >> reporter: a barrage of surface to surface rockets filled with poison gas and fired on ten villages outside of damascus. the syrian government denies using chemical weapons. something president obama has warned against. >> that's a red line for us. and that there would be enormous consequences. >> reporter: washington never backed up that threat even after u.s. intelligence said in june

that syria had used chemical weapons. inaction that embold endthe syrian regime to go much further. what was never supposed to happen again seems to be happening again and again. >> that was nbc's richard engel reporting. russian officials accusing the rebels of staging the attack as a quote pre-planned provocation. however turkey is speaking up this morning saying quote all red lines have been crossed in syria. "the washington post" editorial board taking the president to task in syria in a piece titled "the u.s. should examine allegations of chemical attack in syria." quote two months later even the small supplies of weapons promised by the president have yet to be delivered. and the regime which has been battling to consolidate control over a strip of syria extending from damascus to the

mediterranean coast may have been emboldened. mr. assad logically could have concluded that he had little choice. even if chemical weapons use were escalated. mr. obama's hesitant and indecisive response to the massive carnage carried out by egypt's military backed regime last week only strengthened the picture of a president unwilling to act in the middle east. >> one year ago yesterday, which is eerie, the timing, one year ago the president said a, assad must go. b, that if assad regime used chemical weapons it would be the crossing of a red line a game changer. senior administration officials quote in the "the washington post" asked why do you use the game changer language. why do you use this red line language? he said in the post because it serves as a deterrent. if we make it clear that what would dramatical change our involvement, let's be clear what involvement means. involvement in response to use of chemical weapons is some kind of military force.

this official said it's a deterrent. if we say it's a game changer, the crossing of a red line it will prevent the use of chemical weapons. we're here now a year later. chemical weapons have been used. first used in small scale attacks. now it's escalating. the deterrence has been laughed out of damascus. it's not a deterrent. is assad weaker or stronger than he was one year ago when the president said assad must go? there's no doubt he's in a strong power signatures, he's emboldened, taking bigger and bigger risks because there's no consequences. >> dan, you know the ambassador, people have an impression these women are strong advocates for intervening particularly where there's great human horror and tragedy. what advice do you think they are giving him. what do the fights look like? >> if you read samantha power's book "a problem from hell" which

was written in 2002 which looks at five genocidal situations, in every situation she argues that when you have mass human catastrophe on any scale -- >> there's no doubt that's where we are in syria. >> exactly. there's only one way to stop it with some kind of intervention and usually intervention with force and that america must lead that intervention. in fact the sbhernl system will not move unless america leads. >> it goes back to 2008 when obama said i'll repair our image overseas and change their philosophy and that happened but in action in foreign policy it's gone too far the other way. now he feels he can't do anything or they will hate us again. >> we talk about 2002. a lot has changed since 2002. think of it this way. i am horrified and everybody out there watching this is horrified by these reports and by the

videos we're seeing coming out of syria. this looks like this could be the worst chemical attack by a leader against his own population since saddam hussein in 1988. if you remember the run up to the invasion of iraq in 2003, there was lost of references to 1980 attack. a man who gassed his own people. a lot of people in this country were moved by that rightly so because that's horrible thing de. look at the consequences of the u.s. intervention, look at the consequences in the last ten years. i think attitudes in this country -- >> i just want to say i agree with you. there's war fatigue in this country rightly so. which is why, first of all what we need to do in syria is different what we did in iraq. what you need is a commander-in-chief who is going to the american people and actually explain to them we have strategic interests here, moral

interests here and we have the capacity to do something. if he just says public opinion is against us we can't do anything that's where president leads. this president is choosing not to talk about it. how often has he had a real conversation with the american people about syria, the human catastrophe and the national security. >> would you concede because there is a grave potential in the case of syria for united states to start out and -- >> why does he say you can't cross this line? >> that's a whole other question. i'm not here -- i'm here to speck up -- >> call his bluff. huge implication for america's position in the world. >> let's not use that as a pretense to say we have to do something. people in this country say wait a minute. whatever you think -- >> it's the same in egypt. now there's no clear choice of what to do and we lost any real focus as to how to approach it. that's the biggest problem. your point is extremely well

taken but it's a more difficult position because there's no clear path to any side. >> right. i agree. >> we have to move on. i would like to talk about syria quite a bit more. maybe we'll get a chance to revisit it. still ahead secretary of education arne duncan will explain what the white house is doing for the skyrocketing cost of higher education. >> and nixon tapes revealed from the watergate years. we'll play the audio. the last four hours... have seen one child fail... to get to the air sickness bag in time. another left his shoes on the plane. his shoes. and a third just simply doesn't want to be here. until now. until right... booking now. planet earth's #1 accommodation site. booking.com

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while we were at commercial break besides arguing over syria, something very special happened many, many years ago at emerson hospital in concord, massachusetts. steve kornacki was born. he wasn't around to tweet it out. we wish -- >> happy birthday. >> nothing more i would rather do on my birthday to come in at 4:00 a.m. >> 26 years old. >> full head of hair. >> get him some salon product. >> he's a real salon product consumer. >> coming up next cokie robs joins the conversation. "morning joe" brewed by starbucks coming right up.

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welcome back to "morning joe." brian shactman here alongside nicole d. wallace. steve kornacki, the birthday boy and karen fineman joining us from washington. abc news political commentator cokie roberts. good morning. >> good morning. happy birthday to steve. i have shoes older than he is.

>> do you still wear them? >> of course. >> this morning we actually, this is a fascinating follow up to the georgia school shooting. we have a firsthand listen at how a tragedy was averted in georgia after a gunman snuck into the school armed with a semiautomatic weapon and 500 rounds of ammunition. newly released 911 calls from the bookkeeper, antoinette tuft shows why she's being called a hero today. >> he said he should have just went to the mental hospital instead of doing this, because he's not on his medication. >> okay. >> do you want me to try -- i can help you. you want me to talk to them? you want me to talk to them? okay. let me talk to them and see if we can work it out so that you don't have to go away with them for a long time. no it does matter. i can let them know that you have not tried to harm me or do

anything with me or anything if you want to. that doesn't make any difference, you didn't hurt anybody. let me ask you this, ma'am. he didn't hit anybody he just shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him so, they won't shoot him or anything like that? he wants to give himself up, is that okay? they won't shoot him? he just wants to go to the hospital. okay. she said -- hold on one moment. she said hold on and she's going talk to the police officer and i'll go out there with you. okay. >> he's put the weapon down. >> yeah. >> hold on. he's putting everything down. he's going to get on the floor. tell them to hold on a minute. let him get everything together. he's getting it all together. okay. tell me when you're ready and i'll tell them when to come on in. we're not going to hate you. it's a good thing you're giving up. we're not going to hate you. >> ma'am, you're doing a great job. >> so let's do it before the

helicopters and stuff come. sheaid that's fine. take all your weapons off. she said you don't have no more weapons. okay. you on the ground now with his hand behind the back. tell officers don't come and shooting or anything so they can come on in and i'll buzz them in. >> okay. hold on. sit right there. i'll buzz them in so you know when they are coming. okay. okay. so just stay there calm don't worry about it. i'm gonna sit right here so theology see that you didn't try to harm me. okay. it's gonna be all right sweetie. i just want you to know that i love you though and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing that you've justify given up and done worry about it. we all go through something in life. you stay right there. you fine. he said do you want him to go out there with his hands up or do you want him to stay right here? >> stay right where he is. >> okay, she says stay right

there where you are. he wants to know can he get his water right quick. yes. guess what, michael, my last name is hill. my mom was a hill. what are you waiting for. what's taking them so long to come on? she says she's getting to them now. they are coming. they are coming. so just hold on, michael. go ahead and lay down. go ahead and lay down. okay. you just got your phone. okay that's fine. tell them to come on. come on. okay, he's just got his phone. that's all he got is his phone. >> do not move. >> it's just him. it's just him. hello? let me tell you something, baby,

identify never been so scared in all the days of my life. >> but you did great. >> oh, jesus. >> you did great. >> oh, god. okay. i'm fine. >> we never heard the end of that. >> so moving. >> cokie, she did not let on for a second that she was in the least bit nervous. >> she was incredible. i mean, god would all of us be able to have that kind of presence of mind to just talk him down, talk him down, talk him down. identify with him. we all go through bad things. my name is hill too. i mean this is remarkable. she's bound to have been just scared to death and worried about all those children. and still she managed to get

that done. >> cokie, you've seen a lot of these stories about human -- unlikely heroes. i wonder what do you think it is? do you think it's some core of faith? what do you think has happened in this woman's life that made her so easily tap into her human compassion for this very troubled young man? >> well, obviously, i know nothing about her. but i suspect that there is a faith there that makes a huge difference and she was calling on that. that's pretty clear at the end. but she's also in a school where she's around children all the time. she's probably a mother, maybe a grandmother. and so, you know, she's had to deal with people in distress and she's done it unbelievable well. >> you know what's funny -- >> i'm so impressed. >> when i was growing up if somebody had a knife it was like an outrage. incredible thing. obviously the motive, weaponry has changed in these schools and

we talk about how life can end with just an inch of a finger. yet humanity creeps in still. i mean, this young man is still going away for a long, long time but she used psychology to tap into his sense of humanity and it worked. she's a bookkeeper. he's a troubled young guy. >> she's a lot more than a bookkeeper. she's some sort of magic healer or a woman who speaks to children as cokie said or she's someone important and special to that community i'm sure. >> all right. there's just over one month to go before the president's health care plan officially begins and a lot of businesses we've talked about a lot are skeptical about the cost. they site the affordable care act. u.p.s. just came out and announced they are removing 15,000 spouses from their health care plan because of anticipated higher costs. spouses of u.p.s. employees who do not work and, therefore, have no other health care options can remain on the company's plan.

a spokesperson says it will save the company $60 million. that's not a ton of money in the overall bottom line of u.p.s. >> right. yes. although margins are thin. you have to find your way wherever you can. i'm sure not an easy choice for them politically. costs are just rising. they got to address it somewhere. >> cokie we talked about how companies will do whatever they can to leverage themselves for profit when is they can. so the debate is whether this is a preemptive move so they can find a way to make more money or is this a real concern for corporations? >> well, i don't know u.p.s.'s own situation. there's a lot of people just regular doctor offices that you go to today and they say we don't know what to do. we sort of had everything in place getting ready for obama care and now we don't know whether it will happen or not. there's a lot of confusion out there. the biggest problem isn't the health care bill, the biggest

problem is the cost of health care. and so we've seen such escalating costs and that's what businesses have been dealing with for years now. for years health care has cost more in a car than steel. so it's something that every business has to deal with and the biggest concern is that they will drop people all together. and just saywell head on into those exchanges and that's something that the administration has to really be worried about. >> i think one of the things here that concerns me, just looking at in terms of going forward in terms of the implementation of the affordable health care act it's still being litigated politically. we should, i think -- >> it's a law. >> be in the implementation phase. okay we have this. we still have republicans in the house repealing it every other week. governors fighting the implementation. >> and the white house delaying it. >> this is -- >> not like ready to go.

>> that's what i mean by until pleamentation. >> white house created more confusion. >> it's a big country. >> hold on. >> let steve finish his point. >> when you look at how big government programs are implemented, when you look at medicare in the past, the medicare prescription drug plan in the past it's not implemented as it was written. the employer mandate delayed by a year. there's something to that. it's not that huge. but my point is we need to look at going forward because this is still being litigated politically and still political controversial it gives cover to companies by dumping people off of their health care to say this huge boondoggle obama care is forcing us to do this. in massachusetts when they implemented basically the same law, same health care law under mitt romney this didn't happen.

a difference between massachusetts and nationally is that when the law was enacted in massachusetts when mitt romney signed it and ted kennedy was on the stage with it it gave a bipartisan seal to this and both parties were committed to implementing health care reform. >> you think just regular people who watch that this thing was marketed to the american public, signed, passed and employers now we'll give them a suspension they don't have to -- do you think people say like is this fair? why is the administration saying some people have to comply, some don't. come back to our earlier discussion about the divide in the country. >> cokie, can you save us from ourselves? >> i do think that there's a lot of confusion about it. but i think one of the hopes of the administration, and it is to some degree coming true, is that people who are being affected by the law will like it a lot better by the time it is fully

implemented and we're already seeing that with the parents of 26-year-olds like steve and, you know, that those young people are still covered by their parents and people like that. they love the fact, the single most popular aspect of this law is that insurance companies have to spend 80% of the money on health care and not on other things and people are actually, some getting checks back. so, the hope of the administration is that more and more of those aspects of it, pre-existing conditions have to be covered. will go into effect by the time the full law sim plea menned so people will have a more positive reaction to it. >> what i want to know is what's the end result in terms of

pronisticating. can republicans derail this completely? >> no. democratic senate was re-elected. republicans hold one house. they do not have the capacity to actually shut down a signature accomplishment, a law that was passed by the president of the united states. that said, there are incremental things, incremental steps republicans can take in opposition to delay its implementation and it helps when the president himself is delaying parts of the implementation. republicans can say look this thing is complicated and messy. let's implement a -- delay the implementation of a big chunk of it. >> isn't that the republican agenda? we talk a lot about ted cruz and people that want to defund it. lot of republicans want to improve it. they want to improve health care reform. >> some of the things that cokie said -- >> time-out. then the question is why haven't they suggested --

>> repeal or replace. we heard repeal. i still haven't seen replace. >> this is where newt gingrich's lecture to the republican national committee is relevant. he basically said you just can't keep saying no we don't like it. you have to have something else. of course the something else is very hard. there's a reason this is a very complicated law because health care is a really complicated issue, and until we hear something else from the republicans they just sound like children stomping their feet and saying no, no, no, which is very unattractive. >> fascinating to see when a republican is back in the presidency whether they will just let it go since it's no long ear contentious issue with a sitting democratic president or do something about it whether it's 2016, 2020 or 2024. we want to move on to syria. claims of a massive chemical attack, the likes we haven't seen since 1988.

richard engel joins us with the latest. richard, i guess are we trying now to independently confirm that this happened or the assumptions we can basically accept them? >> reporter: yes and no, and no again. we are trying to independently confirm but we are hearing cairo, journalists are not allowed access to these affected areas. in fact, u.n. inspectors who are in syria right now and who were there just a few miles away from where these alleged incidents took place just on the outskirts of damascus are also not allowed to visit these sites. the u.n. teams are holed up at the four seasons hotel in damascus. i think it's about four miles away from the closest site where rebels say chemical weapons were used. u.n. teams are trying, negotiating with their syrian handlers to get access and to be allowed to visit and take soil

samples and interview people to do their work. so far that has been unsuccessful. what we've been relying on are dozens of videos that have been posted by the rebels, posted by the members of the opposition. we've spoken to dock, to we've spoken to activists. they all paint or describe a fairly similar story that yesterday before sunrise around 2:00 in the morning a barrage of surface to surface missiles was launched they claimed by the syrian government and those rockets were tipped with a chemical agent that caused hundreds perhaps well over a thousand people to die when these surface to surface missiles exploded near residential buildings in an area that had been and still more or less is held by rebel forces. >> richard, this is nicole wallace. you had a piece on the website about four weeks ago about how in the region in which you live and that you cover there's a sense that the white house careens from one crisis to

another. is there any hope that even if this is -- if there's open question about whether this happened, which i'm not sure how there can be, is there any hope this will engage the white house finally? >> reporter: the hope is still there among the syrian rebels but it is a very faint hope. they feel that washington's policy to syria is to let the syrians die. to allow the two sides to kill each other and that hopefully the problem will just go away by destroying itself. that's hat the syrian rebels think that washington's positio is to just contain the problem, ignore it, and allow all the bad actors there, the rebels, the militant groups, the assad forces, hezbollah, al qaeda, to just kill each other and the problem will go away. unfortunately the problem will not go away. the more death, the more chaos that continue, the more refugees

that spill out of the country the more this becomes a global problem. not necessarily that the united states has to adopt this problem, or to send in troops and i don't think anyone thinks that would be a good idea but to have an engaged strategy for this problem instead of just watching it from afar and hoping it goes away. this attack, if its proved will be one of those incidents that can't be ignored. in june, the u.s. intelligence said that small amounts of chemical weapons had been used by the syrian regime. and then after that a decision was taken by the white house to provide limited lethal means to the syrian rebels. but then they never followed through. they didn't follow through on threats or followed through on arming the rebels. that one was brushed under the carpet. this will be very hard to ignore this one. >> cokie, with richard's point there that it's difficult to ignore this one, if you look

back at the president's speech back in 2009 where he talked about a new beginning, how our whole position and image in the middle east would change and i would argue it has. >> for the worse. >> and so is there a moment like there's an inflection point where the administration says enough. we have held off for long enough. this is becoming unsustainable or are they sort of on auto pilot saying look this president wasn't elected to get america involved in new wars in the middle east, his job was to get us out of wars in the middle east and last thing he's going to do is launch something new no matter how horrific the images are. >> every president is elected to is to protect the citizens of this country. what's happening in syria now we're providing a breeding ground for attacks against this country. i do think the government appears to be just taunting us at this point.

and if the united states does not actively engaging a way that the people of syria see the united states as a friend and a savior in some sense then i think we're setting up a situation there and in egypt where we could have decades to come of anti-american feelings that are very, very harmful to this country. >> richard, real quick before we let you go. you're obviously in egypt. there's talk that mubarak may be out of prison. just update us on anything going on with that issue. >> reporter: yeah. two quick points before i get to mubarek. the way it's seen in syria about anti-americanism or the american perspective, one syrian rebel described to it me like this. we understand the united states doesn't want to fight in our war. this is our problem. we need to liberate ourselves. but if the united states has a bucket of water or has a bucket of sand and our house is on fire

and united states doesn't use that bucket of water or doesn't use a bucket of sand then they are in part responsible that they have a responsibility as a world power to do something. also, if after threatening action, if chemical weapons were used and then it's proved that chemical weapons are used and the united states doesn't do anything, that could be a very bad precedent where the united states is sending to other leaders that it's somehow okay to use these weapons of mass destruction to suppress their own people. here in egypt, we are waiting for former president mubarek to be released from prison and that could happen at any hour. he's expected to be transferred to a military hospital to start his house arrest. >> richard, thank you very much. >> still, was dwight d. eisenhower the greatest republican president? kevin williamson from national review joins us why to explain why conservatives got ike all wrong. up next secretary of education

arne duncan lays out the president's plan to tackle college tuition costs. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if she keeps serving up sneezes... [ sneezing ] she may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec®. powerful allergy relief for adults and kids six years and older. zyrtec®. love the air. and kids six years and older. i don'without goingcisions to angie's list first.

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college and universities have to do their part by working to keep costs down. recently i spoke with a group of college presidents who have done just that. some schools redesign courses to help students finish more quickly. some use better technology. the point is it's possible. so let me put colleges and universities on notice. if you can't stop tuition from going up, the funding you get from taxpayers will go down. now we might see some of that come to fruition. that was president obama in sis 2012 state of the union address threatening to withhold funding from colleges who fail to keep tuition down.

here with us now from the white house secretary of education arne duncan with more details on president obama's mission to take tuition costs head on. thank you for coming on the program. first, specifically, tell us what the president is proposing? >> first let me just say every where i go whether to the grocery store, dry cleaners, every airplane i'm on you have hard-working middle class coming up and saying college is too expensive for them. it's just for the rich folks. the president sees a real problem with that. what he's trying to do are a couple of things. first make sure college is affordable, folks won't be burdened with debt at the back end. young people have access. make sure they have good jobs and pursue jobs at the back end. he wants us over time travel the country he and alisten to rank universities and see who is doing a good job of making sure young people have a chance to go to school. that they are actually graduating, not just getting through the front door. making sure at the back end they

are not burdened with debt. families want that security. >> anything specific you can share with us because that in terms of sentiment is spot on but what about policy? >> what we'll start to do, we'll take some time to put it together but rank universities, understand who is doing a good job and who is not and start to move financial aid, move resources towards those universities that are serious about this mission. right now we put out about $150 billion in grants and loans each year. but it's all on inputs, on the front end, not on the back end. we have so many universities trying to do the right thing. we have states starting to invest more. we want to incentivize the good actors and say those that aren't serious about containing costs you have to change your behavior. >> that's sticking to it the colleges if they don't do the job. we look at the statistics since the early '80s private tuition three times, public tuition four times what it was.

cokie, it seems again the federal government can only do so much. that seems incremental. we need fundamental. >> this is about shared responsibility. we need to don't invest. going college is the best investment we can make. we can't do it by ourselves. states have to reinvest and then universities have to do a better job of both containing costs and building cultures not just around access but completion. >> secretary duncan, so much of college cost is really not manageable. you're talking primarily about salaries, talking about human cost, and then you have thing like energy costs which have been very high in recent years. so that, you know, and then the colleges that are trying very hard to provide scholarships for students who can't go there at all so you combine those things and it's really hard to see the places where they can hold down cost in a way that is going to

be effective and then if they lose federal funding then that makes it harder for the students who are there. >> actually disagree and there are many universities showing great innovation in tough economic times. you see universities going to three year degrees rather than four. you see universities doing dual enrollment programs so juniors and seniors in high school are taking college courses for college credit. they are usingling to drive down costs and increase passing rates. so there's a tremendous amount of nifinnovation. none of this is easy but it's happening in the real world. we want to see this become the norm rather than the exception and, again, i think hard-working american families deserve and need the chance to go to college but can't be saddled with massive debt on the back end. it's not fair. >> secretary duncan, let me ask you something. where then does the burden of student debt go. how do you allocate between

universities, students themselves and the government. >> this is all about shared responsibility. we have to don't invest but we can't do it by ourselves. states have to continue the invest in higher education. universities have to do a better job of containing costs and making sure more young people of middle class and low-income have access. provide much greater transparency so young people and families can make great choice. we have 7,000 institutions of higher education. we have the best system of higher education in the world. we want young people to have much better information so they can make their best choice to pursue their dreams. >> i've covered a lot of this stuff. we have four profit companies publicly traded that take government money and don't hold their students accountable. they get the money and students can go off into the wasteland and not graduate. we have private institutions run like businesses. student loan business being run for profit. so it's just frustrating as an american to see this happen when

there's so many things going on that are so obviously wrong. i want steve to comment. >> i'll speak up for the generation of i think college graduates. they graduate and hit with hey i owe $80,000 in loans or $80,000 in debt. secretary duncan, there's a pilot program right now in the state of oregon and basically says we'll defer the cost of tuition. you won't pay tuition up front when you're in college. you'll go to college, not pay anything, get your diploma and then payback a fixed share of your income over 20 or 25 years. maybe 2% or 3% something like that. what do you make of that idea? >> those kind of models are very interesting. what oregon is doing is based upon the australia model. my wife is australian. every day she says we should look at that model. we'll follow that very closely. for young people now with debt out there we have a program called pay as you earn that caps

your monthly payments at 10% of your income. we have about 1.5, 1.6 million people benefiting from that now. many more could benefit and do a much better job of marketing that program. making sure folks know what the resources are today, what the options are. situations like oregon are very interesting. we'll follow that closely. >> secretary duncan, i wish we had more time. a very important topic to everyone watching. arne duncan, thank you very much for your time. coming up next newly released audiotapes of richard knicks n days. and a site on a military beach in russia. >> people in bathing suits. >> that's crazy. >> we're right back. it's back to school time and we're talking with diane about the walmart low price guarantee, backed by ad match. you got your list? let's go! look at that price!

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i think i'll characterize this as something you won't see in the hamptons. this is from russia. a navy hover craft. sun bathers landing on a packed beach during a military exercise. this is amateur footage. shows the vehicle powering

towards the shore that's packed with quite a few people. a spokesperson said the russian defense ministry told a local newspaper docking at the beach is a normal event. >> you might see that at the hamptons next year. >> donny deutsch pulls in, like east hampton. >> he like vlad will have his shirt on. >> donnie is begging someone to ask him to take his shirt off. >> we thought we were steering down a topless donnie. didn't happen. >> is that why i'm here in his place. designee knew you would keep your clothes on your birthday. >> so far. >> tough to take a left turn to president nixon. but i will. >> from a topless donnie to nixon. the nixon library releasing tapes from the height of the watergate scandal.

pete williams has more on the recordings in clueding from a supporter who one day would become president. >> reporter: in the spring of 1973 richard nixon is a president under siege facing daily revelations about his administration's role in the water beat the scandal. >> this office is a sacred trust. >> reporter: after the speech and apparently after a few drinks nixon talks with his friend halderman by phone. >> it's a tough thing, bob for you and for john, the rest but [ bleep ] damn it this watergate thing again. >> reporter: california's governor round reagan phones in to offer support. . it you to know you're in our prayers. >> each of us has a different religion, you know. god damn it we have to build peace in the world. how did you ever marry such a pretty girl. my god. >> i'm lucky.

>> reporter: a few days earlier nixon tells his spokesman he had no role in the scandal. >> let me say we can have confidence though that the president wasn't involved. >> reporter: in mid-may the pressure builds as a senate committee begins watergate hearings. in the oval office the nixon maximum accents of committee southerners. >> now what does this mean, mr. halderman? >> nixon is caught in the web he created. and half of him knows that he broke the law, abused his power and the other half of him is the defense lawyer trying to deny it. >> reporter: but the tapes capture the richard nixon who built a bridge to china. >> we've got to get along with them. or it's no problem for the next 10 years xx years. >> reporter: the tape ends july 12th when the system is publicly

revealed. richard nixon holds on for 13 mont months more. >> cokie, what are we learning? >> we learn something more every time the tapes are released. we're seeing both sides of richard nixon. really insightful, intelligent side where he's thinking about china and the world and then just mean spirited and criminal side, frankly, where he is trying to cover up from watergate and it's just remarkable that we can keep hearing these tapes and learning new thing. here we are 40 years later. i think it will keep happening. this is a huge traunch of tapes that have come out and a lot of things we learn for the better and a lot of thing we learn for the worse. >> i look forward to whenever we get the latest batch of nixon tapes. we're coming up on these 40th

anniversaries we're hearing in term of the unraveling of his anniversary. just how quickly it happened in the sense in november of 1972 this guy wins a record shattering share of the vote, gets 49 states and then six months later the presidency is under siege and i always think back from the seat i'm from, massachusetts, the only state in the country in 1972 that voted against richard nixon. we told you so. >> still ahead on "morning joe," cuba gooding jr. talking about race and their experience on the new hit movie "the butler." they sit down with willie geist. more on "morning joe" later. right now, 7 years of music is being streamed.

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of the greatest republican presidents, but would he survive in today's republican party? "the national review's" kevin williamson here to discuss his cover story on why modern day conservatives should be more like ike. "morning joe" will be right back. ealer's office and you know what i walked out with? [ slurps ] [ dad ] a new passat. [ dad ] 0% apr. 60 months. done and done. [ dad ] in that driveway, is a german-engineered piece of awesome. that i got for 0% apr. good one, dad. thank you, dalton. [ male announcer ] it's the car you won't stop talking about. ever. hurry in to the volkswagen best. thing. ever. event. and get 0% apr for 60 months, now until september 3rd. that's the power of german engineering.

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happily i can say that war

has been avoided. steady progress towards our ultimate goal has been made. but so much remains to be done. so in this my last good night to you as your president, i thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and in peace. i trust in that view, in that circus, you find some things worthy. >> that was president dwight eisenhower delivering his farewell address from the oval office in 1961. we're us from "the national review" kevin williamson. kevin makes his case for why conservatives should take another look at ike. he writes eisenhower may have called himself a progressive but his bedrock priorities a strong military, balanced budgets and limited government are classical conservatism. under eisenhower republicans could communicate to americans a sense of being on their side, s their side. the answer would have been a

nearly unanimous yes. it is unthinkable a man of eisenhower's personal stature would become a republican presidential nominee in the near future simply because there are few, if any, men of his stature available. kevin, it's a great piece. >> thank you. >> give us a sense of the context of how eisenhower was viewed and how he was viewed in office and after he left. >> he was the most popular figure in american life. not just in politics but the most respected figure in the united states of america. he had approval ratings coming in and going out that were just unheard of, 70%, something like that. ice be hour comes into office at a really interesting time where he's really the first president of the post war era and everything is on the table. what kind of government are we going to have domestically. when it's permissible to use nuclear weapons. eisenhower has all these things

dumped in his laugh. the great thing, he does it all making it sort of look easy. people thought he was playing golf all the time when, in fact, he was solving some of the hardest problems any president's been faced with. >> republicans were hard on him. >> yes, some were. >> national review said we prefer ike when he ran for re-election. why were they so hard on him? and what parallels do you see to how hard we are on each other today? >> there's some similar issues. a lot of conservatives in the 1950s wanted ike to take a harder line on foreign policy. they wanted involvement like things in vietnam. they also wanted tax cuts. ike was faced with a really tough situation where he wanted to balance the budget. he thought there probably needed to be tax cuts. people in congress of course were lobbying hard for them. he thought it was more important

to have a balanced budget and also to get the inflation out of the economy. conservatives, when they finally got their war and their tax cuts, they had to wait for john kennedy to get those. >> echoing what nicolle and brian have said, great piece. talk about the 1952 republican primary it as you said, there was taft running, who was mr. republican, been a senator through the '40s and '50s. opposed our early involvement in world war ii. was concerned the cold war was creating all these powers that the u.s. government -- the executive branch was becoming too powerful. and opposed harry truman's policy of containment. he was in the respects a rand or ron paul figure in that primary. how did ice be hour wage the debate against taft in that primary? >> in a sense, he didn't have to. he was dwight eisenhower. no one was going to say anything to hip about foreign policy.

he hadn't really had much of a contest if you look at how things came out in that convention. they were right about a lot of things. they were right about sort of creating that big administrative state. eisenhower with his famous speech on the military industrial complex. that doesn't mean they're right in their general policy prescriptions that we should have stayed out of world war ii and the rest. in the same sense, people who were right about expansion of federal government through things like desegregation and issues related to civil rights had a point in the sense that those powers created were going to be used for other things as well. doesn't mean you should sit back and let segregation endure. but you've got some intelligent useful insites on both sides the debate. eisenhower's standing in the country was such that he was able to steam roll over the opposition. >> cokie roberts. >> i actually remember dwight eisenhower unlike the rest of you children. >> steve does.

>> my father actually was atly stevenson's southern states campaign manager. eisenhower was very much the enemy in my childhood. although he was never the enemy the way there are enemies now in washington. that is just a different world. in those pictures you just showed, you saw say rayburn, the longtime democratic speaker of the house, sitting next to him. my father worked very closely on the federal highway bill. huge change in the country which he said we needed for national defense. and that's where we started getting interstate highways. he worked with democrats all the time. when i went to cover the 50th anniversary of normandy, having grown up with, you know, the campaigns, my family and the campaigns against eisenhower, and i went to normandy and i thought, why did anybody bother to run against him? it was such a clear -- he was such a clear hero. a hero who took such

responsibility. the letter that he wrote before the invasion. saying, you know, if anything goes wrong, it's on me. taking just complete charge of the situation and a willingness to be the responsible party. and that's what he brought into his presidency. that is something we really haven't seen very much of since then. >> the thing is, i think eisenhower is an underrated president, absolutely. what i'm curious about is how much the republican party himself has changed from his day. >> there couldn't be a reagan -- >> the modern republican party was built on two forces. one was the taft wing we talked about that felt robbed by eisenhower at the convention in 1952. and the other leg of the barry goldwater campaign in 1964 was the solid democratic south which was a product of reconstruction after the civil war, which hated the republicans because of

reconstruction, turned into a republican bastion because of civil rights. if you look at the taft wing -- i'm not looking at eisenhower's party anymore. >> they started leaving the republican party in the 1930s as a result of the new deal. 1964 and civil rights comes around, that alignment had taken place a generation ago -- >> no, no -- >> no, 1946, the democrats had the majority of the african-american vote. no presidential republican candidates won the black vote since hoover. absolutely unsupportable by the evidence. >> '64, the goldwater -- >> '64 is the critical year. realignment wouldn't have happened if not for the 1930s -- >> -- got 87% in mississippi -- >> and eisenhower got a stronger share of the southern vote. >> we could talk about it off

camera. listen, "the national review" cover story, "why like ike." thank you very much. cokie, thank you, have a great weekend. tomorrow, david axelrod will be here on set and we'll talk to reverend al sharpton and martin luther king iii ahead of the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. ahead this morning, the official director of the consumer financial protection bureau. it's official, richard cordray in his first television interview since his confirmation. the incredible 911 call from that school shooting outside of atlanta. how a level headed school employee may have single-handedly prevented tragedy. when we come back. the secret is out. hydration is in.

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good morning, everybody. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. brian schachtman here with the lovely nicolle wallace. tragedy was averted in georgia, the school shooting, after a gunman snuck into the school. new release 911 calls from the school's bookkeeper show why she's being called a hero. >> let me talk to them and let's see if we can work it out so you don't have to go away with them for a long time. no, it does matter. i can let them know that you have not tried to harm me or do

anything with me or anything, that you want -- but that doesn't make any difference. you didn't hurt anybody. okay. let me ask you this, ma'am. he didn't hit anybody. he just shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him, if i walk out there with him, so they won't shoot him or anything like that? he wants to give himself up. is that okay? they won't show shoot him? >> yes, ma'am. >> he's on the hands now with his hands behind his back. i'll buzz them in. >> okay. >> so hold on, just sit right there. i'm going to buzz them in so you'll know when they're coming, okay? okay. so just stay there calm. don't worry about it. i'm going to sit right here so they're going to see you're not harming me, okay? okay. >> okay. >> it's going to be all right, i just want you to know that i love you though, okay, and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing you're giving up. don't worry about it. we all go through something in

life. >> my first reaction is what would i do in that situation. my second one, so glad to have people like that in our schools. >> she's heroic. alex confessed to trying to make me cry every morning this week. i listen to that and to think of someone having the cool and then the love for someone in their darkest hour is just amazing. >> i would think, how would -- maybe it's a man versus woman. i would be, how can i disarm that guy before he does damage. >> and to communicate such calm to him. he's picking up not just on the words but how she says them. i can only imagine the fear that's probably inside her. but to be able to keep that fear at bay and calm the guy down is amazing. >> she was just so relieved. she exhaled. she's like, oh, lord, i was so relieved. a lot of people at this table have kids that go to school and you give your kids up every day to these people and they get such criticism every day for what we're doing in our school system and then we have these people putting their lives on the line. >> it's almost like divine

intervention. she finds a way to connect with this person. find a way to be in his head and see what will calm him down. it's amazing. >> i probably would have tried to go after him. >> i know, it's an amazing thing. to just think these people -- these incredible positions of power on the other end of the phone. and how they use that power in some you think -- we have this sense that some phone it in. and there's this rising to the occasion. it's inspiring. >> one of those great moments. just over one month to go before the president's health care plan officially begins. some businesses remain skeptical about the cost of obama care. and doing some things about it. citing the affordable care act, u.p.s., huge international company. removed 15,000 spouses from its health care plan. spouses of u.p.s. employees who do not work and therefore have no other health care options can remain on the company's plan. a spokesperson said the move

will save the company about $60 million. steve, the truth is, some companies have done this in the past anyway. if there are other options, they make your pursue it. is this something that's almost a political motive? what do you take? >> i don't even know if it's a political motive. it's very possible here and in other situations like this, this is a very convenient excuse for a company. already absorbing -- look at the rise of health care costs. every company that provides health insurance for its employees has absorbed huge increases every year. even before there was such a thing as obama care. if you look at the specific fees being cited here. the reason for dropping them because of obama care. they're a pittance compared to what the rise in health care cost until very recently has been. just because the possibility -- just because they're saying this is because of obama care, maybe it's an opportunity for the company to save a little money. we have to consider that possibility. >> we should also consider that this sort of thing should have

been anticipated. it's very easy to blame the companies. the policy may be flawed. saying their franchisees. will most likely once obama care kicks in will reduce employees to fewer hours because of health care costs. you would thing if they were planning for this, they would have anticipated this. there's a poll in july "the wall street journal" did, the commission, that showed that something like 47% of the american public is against obama care at this point. you get the sense this whole thing was not terribly well planned for. you can think about those numbers continuing to go in that direction. >> can i just ask, do you think if some of these companies have made these decisions before or during the presidential campaign, do you think that mitt romney and paul ryan would have had better luck communicating and making people understand the dire consequences?

>> absolutely. because we had an abstract discussion during the campaign. now we're actually watching what i think is the mess of obama care. why does the obama administration put in all these delays? they recognize there are huge problems. >> it's funny you mentioned mitt romney. why didn't they plan for this? looking at what mitt romney did in massachusetts, because in massachusetts, mitt romney created the blueprint that became obama care nationally. one of the things they learned on implementation in massachusetts was employer coverage increased. all these issues -- what we have in terms of employers dumping employees from their coverage is more anecdotal than it is a trend. we have stories but i don't know we have a trend. i think we have a few companies seeing an opportunity to blame this on obama care and taking it. in massachusetts what they planned -- >> the delays are obviously good fodder for -- >> and these are big companies.

you're talking about -- companies like u.p.s., you're talking about a huge payroll. >> how much has this been a trend before obama care? >> when i think about u.p.s., i think they are, if not the largest union employer, one of the largest union employers. you look at their competitor, which is not. you think, wow, they're already at a big disadvantage. it's not surprising they would try to find any incremental place to cut cost that they could. >> i did a small documentary on u.p.s. they pride themselves on what they do with their salary and hourly workers, college tuition, all this stuff. i really empathize with what you say. i think it might have been a hard decision to go public with. the perception of u.p.s. as a company is employee friendly. >> so they got to hope they get a lot of company in this decision to take spouses off. >> you think companies will follow suit? >> i do.

they're a very big employer. if they can do it, why can't others sort of, you know, hide behind them and do it as well? >> steve, there's your trend. >> we have one example where this is implemented. because of governor romney in massachusetts. we have not seen this -- i love that we're relitigating -- >> mitt romney could have spoken to it -- >> because he did it. >> i would say two things. we can spend the whole show reliving the sip larts alarts s reliving the sip larts imilarit differences. let's table that for now. in the interest of ratings, let's table that debate. simply will say that this thing is -- i think u.p.s. is a really big company. you cited papa john's and olive garden. papa john's is one of the companies in terms of the franchisees -- >> these are big companies -- >> we have huge payrolls, we have a huge problem with

implementation. your concern, the question you raise about whether or not this is bad for employee morale, which is what u.p.s. and fedexes of the world invest a lot of brand equity in, it might be, but this is not going to be debated and addressed with their employees in a vacuum. there's a big national discussion about how the implementation of this massive new government program passed by the president in the first two years of his presidency is working out. it's not just like u.p.s. woke up one day and decided to stick it to its employee. about a major program that's being put in place. it's going to be stifling to companies and promoting a lot of unpredictability. >> we go from expenses to wages. coalition groups are calling for a nationwide strike of fast food workers. employees in eight cities are planning a walkout of their jobs at mcdonald's, burger king, wendy's and kfc. to increase hourly wages to $15. however, a former ceo of

mcdonald's says raging the minimum wage, this is going to be fascinating conversation, would be bad for business. >> the average restaurant makes 4.6% profit. the labor cost is 30 plus percent. how can you raise the minimum wage almost double and expect to sustain that? i think obama care's going to draw up 15% of small businesses off the face of the earth. if they did this minimum wage thing, it would be another 15% that will go away. you can't afford it. >> karen, companies make money, they expand, they hire more people, right, so they want to make as much money as possible to do that. if they increase wages, it hurts profitability and maybe they don't expand. what's the philosophy? >> you never hear the business owners saying we have to increase minimum wage. that never happens. it's hard to hear a specific time and then say, all right, it must be true. we last talked about walmart,

when they wouldn't raise wages in washington, d.c. i think of costco which prides itself on having great relationships with their employees. it makes me wonder in terms of profitability, costco gets a much better -- if they had a little better employee relations. >> i guess the question is how would that issue have played, say, hypothetically in a campaign. where the two sides fall. >> on the question of minimum wage? >> yeah, or doubling it -- >> that's the basic -- one of the basic divides. there are examples. there are republicans who have spoken out in the past. i think the idea that companies never say raise it. they always say no, do not raise it. it's going to hurt our business. it has been raised how many times? i've never seen a study that links that to how -- >> steve, is there any piece of information that could make you oppose -- is there anything you

could learn about how it could stifle -- is there anything that could convince you -- >> -- oh, raise it to $40 -- >> is there any economic condition in this country, such as our employment rate, our underemployment rate, that could make you say as much as i am purely in favor of always raising wages, even i am nervous about the economic -- how fragile our -- >> look, i don't think there's a sip pell answer. i'm just raising the basic argument. like we said with u.p.s. on the question of health care. i think there's reason to be skeptical of when a mcdonald's ceo says, it's going to ruin 20% of small businesses. that's the way the system works. they're going to use all the pressure -- >> -- raising wages would wipe small businesses off the map? >> you can't just raise it to any level.

the ceo of mcdonald's -- >> i don't want to defend mcdonald's but i think he's speaking for a lot of people. the fact is, a lot of them will get wiped out if they have to implement obama care and raise the wage. >> sure, i don't have a number but i'm not arguing for indiscriminately raising it. let's talk in five years and see how many small businesses went under because of obama care -- >> i think what we're talking about right now is sim pa matic of something bigger and real. the s&p has something like doubled. more than doubled since '09. if you look at who those gains have gone to, 50% have gone to the top 1% most wealthy in the

country. if you look at 80%, have gone to the top 5%. so since the financial crisis 2008, 2009, the really wealthy in this country are doing just fantastically. the zero, the quantitative easing. have been this incredible. there's been no growth agenda. so there's been nothing to help small businesses grow and hire more. and so you have this situation where you're stuck in washington where people who can speculate with cheap money, which is wall street, are doing just fine. they're making a ton of money. everyone else is not. i see nothing in the president's agenda in the last year or the next two years that says there's a real growth agenda to expand the number of small businesses. to keep those in the market vibrant and strong. to keep them hiring people. the fact at the end, we're having a discussion about raising the minimum wage as though that's the anecdote -- >> either single politician have

talked about it. median income is still below 2007 levels. we know very few people in this world can have close to a middle class lifestyle at minimum wage. it's one of those things where you don't know till you try. it is well below 2007. you're going to have the lower middle class -- >> even wall street must recognize without a vibrant middle class to buy things -- >> nicolle, they don't -- to be honest, they don't care, because they'll be out of the trade and on to the next one. it is a zero sum game, i'm sorry. >> i don't know if you can say they don't care. they might not care for the

right reasons but they do care to have a strong middle class. does help the economy. which, you know, further down the line that does help wall street. it does help banks. it just flows through the economy. it does help. you could say they might have, you know, not philanthropic reasons why they want a middle class to be vibrant. >> they want then to buy things. >> bottom line, very sip pemple >> it's got to be stopped. >> well, obama's working on it. >> still haahead, willie sits dn with two of the stars from "the butler." open up about their experiences with the film and with race. after two years in nomination limbo, richard cordray takes over the consumer financial protection bureau. we'll talk to him next. first, a check on the forecast. >> tough life on that willie geist. let me talk about this forecast and show you something that you haven't seen before. i can promise you that. this is a sinkhole from

louisiana. this is amazing. this is not special effects. those trees are disappearing in front your eyes. literally just sinking into the ground. and they get swallowed hole. look at the water rushing into the hole. it's like going into a grinder. like you just chop the trees down. incredible stuff. that sinkhole's been going on for a long time. it's like 25 acres wide. as far as the forecast goes and weather concerns, the fire season, we're at the peak of it. we have 51 uncontained fires all in the west. we have 14 in idaho alone. that's the big one they've been fighting there, the bear creek fire. as far as ache rreage burned, w only about 3 1/2, so well below the last two years. if you're traveling, thunderstorms from iowa into chicago this morning. in chicago, 45-minute delays. the rest of the country should be okay today. it's pretty summer like.

we leave you a shot of st. louis. it looks like one of the hottest weeks is yet to come. next week, look for the middle of the country to feel like the peak of summer. we're here at the university of colorado with master griller and pro-tailgater, matt connor who's secretly serving steaks from walmart. it's a steak over! dude, it's so good. it's juicy. it's nice and tender. only one in five steaks is good enough to be called walmart choice premium steak. all these steaks are from walmart. oh my gosh! top ten most tender steaks i've had.

i'm going to start buying meat at walmart. walmart's prices are so low you could have steak at every game. it's 100% satisfaction guaranteed. try it.

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you're looking live at washington, d.c. where the memorial is still -- i think it's going to be a couple years before they finish it. but it still looks okay with the scaffolding around there.

bradley manning, he gets sbsed to 35 years for leaking classified information. announced this morning his intention to change from a man to a woman. this is no joke. manning released this statement today. quote, as i transition into this next phase of my life, i want everyone to know the real me. i am chelsea manning. i am a female. given the way that i feel and have felt since childhood, i want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. an army judge sentenced the 25-year-old to 35 years in prison. he probably is eligible in about seven or eight. he was found guilty on five counts of espionage. five federal counts theft. i don't know what to say. >> obviously troubled person. >> he self-identified as gay in the military. now he's coming out. whether this means -- you talked about how there was a court case that the state needs to support

this kind of transition. >> only in america would they do that. >> i don't know what he's seeking here -- >> it's just an unbelievable story. you wouldn't believe it unless it happened. richard cordray, now officially the director of the consumer financial protection bureau. richard joins us now from capitol hill. mr. cordray, thank you for coming on. at the actual institution you're now leading, they must be happy to have their head down, right? >> i think they are. i know i am. persistence pays off. >> let's get to work then. i mean, they talk so much about the mortgage business, we know all the problems going on, so is that the first area of your focus? can you take us through? how are you going to start? >> mortgage has been our top

priority so far. i've been in this position since january of 2012. we've been working to reshape the mortgage market. we know the broken mortgage market caused the financial crisis and led to the meltdown in this country that hurt so many people, millions of people, both in jobs and houses and in retirement savings. we've been refashioning that market to make it safer and easier for consumers to access. >> what is it that are the major problem in that aye rerena? what are the biggest issues now? some people assume we have the crisis and we changed some things and it should be better. >> i think it is going to be better. and frankly, the mortgage market, housing market, is improved significantly over the last couple of years. it's been something that's been leading our economy forward. there were tremendously irresponsible practices. some of what we've done is root those out to prevent those from

happening again. people tell us all over the country that access to credit is very tight right now. we need to make sure we're supporting the housing market. i think our rules have done that. and provided certainty for lenders to know how they can go forward. yesterday, we brought out a report and there continue to be problems with mortgage servicers. bad payment processes. sloppy processes. they continue to frankly mess up the servicing in many, many cases, that hurts consumers and forces them to pay more and often lose their homes. >> i got a question about educating the home purchaser. we had a real lack of information by the home purchasers. is that going to be part of your mandate?

>> it is. there's blame that lays on both sides of that transaction. they often trust the person across the table who they see as an expert. financial education's an important part of our work. we do a poor job in this country at educating young people who go out in the world and are expected to know how to make these decisions. it's also important how to make those decisions more accessible to consumers. we have our know before you owe project that's intended to simplify some of the mortgages. so they make good judgments they will be happy living with not just for six months or a year but for 5, 10, 20, 30 years. >> there are many reasons why you're in this job right now, but one of them is because elizabeth warren couldn't be. republicans weren't going to confirm her. i guess i'm curious, have you

spoken to her? what has she told you? >> i speak to her periodically. she's a friend of mine. i worked with her. she recruited me to the bureau. she's now in the senate. that's a different role. my job is not a political role. i'm running a federal law enforcement agency. an agency that regulates banks and nonbanks. my job is to look out for consumers in this country. i'm going to do that job. i'm glad to be in it now for a considerable period of time. that's going to be our focus. >> hey, richard. if you look at the big banks, many of which you're dealing with, compared to where they were in 2008, 2009, the big banks are in many cases as leveraged as they were. they're certainly less, you know, at least opaque as they were back then. so when you look at dealing with these big institutions, what has actually really changed as you go about the work you're doing? big institutions. a lot of opaqueness.

>> we have big banks that compete with other banks around the world. we have thousands of smaller banks that support local communities across this country. we're very mindful that's the strength of the american system. it's something we want to preserve. we want to make sure as we write rules that affect, say, the mortgage market, that we're mindful of the fact that they have different burdens. it's been a strength of our town to have the local banks supporting local business, supporting local consumers. they understand the markets. so that's quite important. as to the big banks, one of our jobs, one of our very important jobs, is to oversee these large institutions. and to make sure they're turning their face towards the consumer. that they're complying with the

law. that's very important. we've had a lot of discussions with them. we're examining the banks. that behavior is changing. >> i'd just like to see if any industry, whether it's cable, phone, mortgage. we all have these line item fees in there that we never question. i'd like to know if any of them are questionable. we just pay them without even looking. i hope you get on that one as well. richard cordray, congratulations. thanks for coming on "morning joe." >> my pleasure. >> all right. coming u, cuba gooding jr. and lenny crakravitz. from the new hit movie "the butler."

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i'm going to show you some clips, this is what they call a trailer, kind of a preview, of "lee daniels' the butler." i hope you enjoy this. watch. >> critics and audiences are raving about "lee daniels' the butler." starring forest whitaker as cecil gaines. >> i'm cecil gaines. i'm the new butler.

>> james marsden as john f. kennedy. robin williams as dwight eisenhower. >> did you ever complete school, cecil? >> and jackie chan as bill clinton. "lee daniels' the butler" in theaters now. >> i think it's a little more intense than -- >> too much laughing. >> did you cry? because you've been crying all week. >> yeah, so in "the butler" i started crying in the middle and just didn't stop. a lot of crying. >> i have to admit, i did not realize, robin williams plays eisenhower? i just saw that now. wow, interesting. >> all the presidents are really good. >> debuted at number one in the box office. a bit of a surprise. thanks in part to the star-studded cast. recently willie sat down with co-stars len ni kravitz and cuba gooding jr. >> yes, there's a story about family there, but how important do you think it is for people to see this, to understand that

country? >> it's so funny, i travel a lot overseas. i remember when president obama was inaugurated, i was in france, and these guys came up to me and say, how is this possible, black man president of such a racist nation? you don't know our history. you don't know that this was a national progression of things. the sacrifices that not only reverend dr. martin luther king made and died for and, you know, jfk fought to instill in during his administration equality for all americans, black and white. there were strides being made in colleges of kids getting educations and learning about and being a positive contribution to society. and what's interesting about this film, willie, is that, you know, there have been iffilms i the past that dealt with the

civil rights movement but they might have taken a definitive stance or opinion like malcolm x. this one sits back and explores the period. it comes at one point from a passive position of a butler who's, you know, accessible and invisible in the room and showing the examples and the elegance that black men can be. then it also explores the black panther party and that aggressive by any means necessary movement. i think it's these two trains of thought that really polarized americans and african-americans specifically. but yet was all encompassing in this time period. >> how much do you think it's generational, getting rid of racism, that it's not so easy as electing one president or saying i listen to hip-hop or -- which so many people do now --

>> it's time. it has to be felted out. >> people don't want to wait for time. >> time is what it takes to accomplish anything. you have a lot of people who have still being taught by their folks. they're taught to be racist. they're taught to hate. these are not things that we have in us naturally. >> in light of all that, back to your characters in the movie -- >> yeah, back to the movie. >> i could go on all day about this. how do your characters change in their views of race and their views of white people and their views of white presidents over the course of the film? >> our characters, you don't really get to see so much how they change. because it is about, you know, cecil. and, you know, we're his friends and we're there and you see how we're, you know, with him and with the presidents throughout

the movie. >> he's pretty frgregarious. i think what's great about our characters and the relationship between the butlers, is it is an example of what i spoke earlier. these men, they attacked racism by example. an elegance, you know, a presence, appearance. they showed that they could be nonthreatening. and that black men can be part of the solution and not the problem. the scene when you're showing the diner and the sit-ins and the spit on the kids. and you show the butler serving them. so you're seeing these two things where you have this radical physical attacking and nonresponse. but yet showing love and then you have the butlers serving.

again, showing they can be accessible to whites. i think these two forms of attack, made up the whole civil rights movement, as we -- as you see these people grow at one point, without giving away too much of the movie, you see these two ideologies meld. specifically the relationship with cecil gaines and his son. who's coming from a militant background. you see the two ideas connect. and they inform each other. they both enrich and enlighten each other. then they change their viewpoints on what's the best, you know, because there is no right or wrong way to eradicate racism. but the best way to stomp out ignorance, which is one of the basic, you know, foundations of racism, is to educate, you know, and there's no right or wrong way to inform people.

the fact we're talking this is the healing process. >> i don't think cuba's been that good since "jerry maguire." >> oprah and forest are phenomenal. i thought cuba gooding jr. stole the movie. i thought he is amazing. >> in theaters now. up next, employment figures for the past week out. trouble for retailer abercrombie & fitch. can they rebound as of course the teenagers going school shopping. a little bit later, the woman who put her life on the line to talk down an alleged school shooter. we'll play more of the riveting 911 calls to hear how she did it.

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unemployment numbers tick up a bit but futures indicate we might end the losing streak in the dow. ways going on? >> we had a small rebound last week but the downward trend is still on track here. the average number of new claims is at its lowest since november 2008. we're talking about a five-year slow here. further evidence of the pace of firing has continued to decline. we're looking for a pickup in hiring. >> i spent six years at cnbc. it seemed like every summer it indicated back to school sales would be weak, then we'd get a little bit of a surprise that they're better than expected. abercrombie, their comps were bad. is this something we can read into? >> futures indicate abercrombie

shares will open -- a lot of problems with abercrombie's model or maybe fashion, but he's saying the weakness isn't entirely clear. also happening he said youth spending has diverted to other categories. a couple of trends here more broadly. we know the younger population isn't working as much as they used to and doesn't have the income they used to. we also know that income they do have, they're probably spending on electronic devices. >> right, it could be mommy and daddy aren't giving them as much money as they used to as well. >> right. >> interesting to see how the retailers will report. coming up next, the incredible 911 audio from that georgia school scare. >> it's going to be all right, sweetheart, i just want you to know i love you though, okay, and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing you're giving up. don't worry about it. we all go through something in life. >> just an amazing job by one woman. you can hear it.

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we've talked about this a lot this morning, what happened in georgia. it's something you really have to listen to.

a tragedy was diverted when a deranged gunman snuck into a school. the school's bookkeeper, antoinette touantoine ette tuff, talk about tough. >> he said he should have went to the mental hospital instead of doing this because he's not on his medication. >> okay. >> do you want me to try -- i can help you -- you want me to -- you want to talk to them? want me to talk to then and try to -- okay. let me talk to then and let's see if we can work it out so you don't have to go away with them for a long time. no, it does matter. i can let them know that you have not tried to harm me or do anything with me or anything. if you want to. but that doesn't make any difference. you didn't hit anybody. let me ask you this, ma'am. he didn't hit anybody. he just shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him, so

they won't shoot him or anything like that, they wants to give himself up, is that okay, they won't shoot hip him? >> yes, ma'am. >> he wants to go to the hospital. >> okay. >> she said hang on. she's going to talk to the police officer and i'll go out there with you. put it all up there, okay. >> he put the weapon down? >> yes. hold on before you come. he's putting everything down. he's going to get on the floor. tell them to hold on a minute. he's getting it all together. tell me when you're ready and i'll tell them to come on in. we're not going to hate you, baby. it's a good thing that you are giving up. we were not going to hate you. >> ma'am, you're doing a great job. >> so let's do it before the helicopters and stuff like that come. she said that's fine. take all your weapons off. he said he don't have no more weapons. >> okay. >> okay. he on the ground now with his hands behind his back.

tell the officers don't come in shooting or anything. they can come on in. i'll buzz them in. >> okay. >> so hold on. just sit right there. i'll buzz them in. you'll know what he they're coming, okay. okay. just stay there calm. don't worry about it. okay. it's going to be all right, sweetheart. i just want you to know i love you throw, okay, and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing you're giving up, don't worry about it. all go through something in life. you stay right there. you're fine. he said, do you want him to go out there with his hands up or stay here? >> stay right where he is. >> okay. she said stay right there where you are. he wants to know, can he get some of his water right quick. >> yes, michael. you said michael, right? guess what, michael? my last name is hill too. my mom was a hill.

he said what are you waiting for - -- >> okay, one moment. >> she said they're coming. they're come. just hold on, michael. go ahead and lay down. go ahead and lay down. don't put your -- okay. you just got your phone? okay. that's fine. tell them to come on. come on. okay. he just got his phone. that's all he got is a phone. it's just him. okay. it's just him. hello. i'll tell you something, baby, i'm so scared. scared for my life. >> you did great. >> ooh, jesus. >> you did great. >> oh, god.

>> she's my hero. >> yeah, i mean, listen, 90% of what we do is pretty cynical. >> 99. >> come up next, what if anything did we learn. [ male announcer ] come to the lexus golden opportunity sales event and choose from one of five lexus hybrids that's right for you, including the lexus es and ct hybrids. ♪ this is the pursuit of perfection. ♪ with master griller and sity pro-tailgater, matt connor who's secretly serving steaks from walmart. it's a steak over! dude, it's so good. it's juicy. it's nice and tender. only one in five steaks is good enough to be called walmart choice premium steak.

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all right, what if anything did we learn. >> it's possible to come on the show be a conservative and not be under siege. it's like an amazingly new "morning joe." >> with joe not here. >> it's an amazing thing. >> karen. >> i learned that education plan was just ridiculously nothing. it's just made out of air. i don't know what it is. >> steve. >> i don't know if you pay a price for missing "morning joe" because apparently my favorite character from my favorite show, hank from "breaking bad" was on the other day and i'm kicking myself. >> i learned we