thanks for disrupting your sunday afternoon. i'm karen finney. for president obama talks with russia prove promising. talks with speaker bane eer bo so much. >> this is not a cold war. this is not a contest between the united states and russia. >> could president obama win without a fight? >> this is stabilization by accident and maybe another case of obama good luck. >> we're definitely in a better position. >> a lot of ifs. is it going to work? >> i think it's going to work. >> we can't negotiate around the debt ceiling. >> they were dysfunctional before syria. they're dysfunctional now. >> using extortion and blackmail methods. >> the president is the individual who's talking about shutting down the government.

>> i'm well aware of the deadline. so are my colleagues. >> they can't lead their caucus to a deal. >> anything that is remotely associated with me, they feel obliged to oppose. >> in an interview that aired this morning, president obama talked about everything from syria to congress, the constitution and his assessment of our economy. five years after the financial crisis. the president sat down with abc's george stephanopoulos on friday before the breakthrough u.s./russian deal on syria's chemical weapons. of course, the president had some interesting things to say about his counterpart in moscow. >> i don't think that mr. putin has the same values that we do. and i think obviously by protecting mr. assad, he has a different attitude about the assad regime. but what i've also said to him directly is that we both have an interest in preventing chaos.

we both have an interest in preventing terrorism. the situation in syria right now is untenable. >> it remains to be seen whether those common interests will be enough to sustain a partnership between the two countries and two leaders with a notoriously strained relationship. the diplomatic two-step continues this week with secretary kerry meeting with u.s. allies in paris tomorrow. also tomorrow, the u.n. releases its report on the august 21st chemical attack that set everything in motion. it's expected to support what the obama administration has alleged all along. that assad was responsible for killing more than 1,000 of his own people. joining me now to discuss is democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. thank you so much, senator, for joining me. >> thanks, karen. good to be with you. >> senator, i'd like to start by getting your reaction to the deal that's been announced over the weekend. i know at one point you were sort of skeptical that a diplomatic solution had, perhaps, like a 50/50 shot of

actually being effective? >> yeah. i'm still skeptical. but this is certainly encouraging news when you consider if it's fully implemented and effectuated over a long period of time, months, really, that you would have the result being the removal of all chemical weapons from syria. something no one was even contemplating not only a week ago, but certainly months ago. the result could be good. could be the best, really, result. but here's the problem. it's very difficult to achieve this. there are major challenges. i think we're going to know frankly within days, maybe at this time next week, depending on what mr. assad does in terms of giving us an inventory of all the chemical weapons, the agents, the munitions, the research and production facilities, all of that detail for what the published reports say are 45 sites in about 1,000 tons of this. so it's a very difficult

assignment for the weapons inspectors. but the pressure and the responsibility now is on russia and the syrian regime. they have to deliver. we're going to know, i think, in a week whether or not they can deliver. >> senator, one of the things we noticed is it did not take long for some of your colleagues from the other side of the aisle to already criticize this deal. senator mccain this morning said it's a loser. that doesn't seem to help the process. as you say, we've got to at least, i think, give it a few days to see what happens and to see if assad and the russians start to meet their end of the bargain. it doesn't seem to be helpful to have that kind of criticism right out of the gate. >> i think what we're going to see, though, now that this is operative and it's moving, the next part of this, of course, will be to get a u.n. security council resolution and begin to do the work that our government has to do to make it move forward. but i think you're going to see much more of a consensus as we go down the road as it relates to this part of it.

the next part of this, as it relates to syria policy, now that this part is on a different track, is what do we do about the overall conflict. and i would -- i would argue that we're already there in terms of choosing a side. the question is are we going to support the opposition more robustly or not? i think that senator mccain has actually been -- been more constructive than some other republicans. >> that's true. >> it's interesting when you hear from some republicans who said last week that they were 100% against a strike. they wanted tip lo eed diplomac. now that diplomacy is under way the same republicans say it's not going to work. at least in the case of john mccain he's been constructive in trying to get everyone in the same room. even though he tends to be critical of the administration. >> i want to switch gears just a little bit. part of the calculation that the president talked about this morning as you were saying sort of in terms of the regional

players is iran. we learned this morning in the interview that he did with abc's george stephanopoulos that he's actually been in what he would call indirect contact with the leader of iran. we've got some sound on that. i want to hear from the president and then some different ideas from senator lindsey graham and john mccain. then we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i think the iranians, who we communicate with in indirect ways. >> have you reached out personally to the new president? >> i have. he's reached out to me. we haven't spoken directly. >> letters. >> yeah. >> use of force resolution allowing our country to use military force as a last resort to stop the iranian nuclear program to make sure they get a clear signal that all this debacle called syria doesn't mean we're confused about iran. >> so, senator, i want to get your take with regard to iran and the role that iran seems to be playing in this moving

forward. >> well, i think that's one of the reasons why i think we have to continue to make sure that the syrian regime and the iranian regime know that the credible use of force is still available to the president. i do think as much as there's been discord in voices on some of this, there's a -- i think a fairly strong, unanimous consensus that iran obtaining nuclear weapons capability is something we've got to work to prevent. and that's -- i think that's both democrat and republican in a broad based consensus. this syrian policy, i think, affects that ultimately. i would argue iran is a threat even without the nuclear capability they seek to obtain. if you look at some of the things that have played out in the last couple of years, either the iranian regime on their own or allied with hezbollah, they plot against us and we've got to be vigilant about their threat. >> senator, if i may, i'd like to switch gears and talk about

the financial crisis. we know that the president is going to give an address tomorrow from the rose garden. it's five years since the crash happened, if you will. as we learned last week, it appears, you know, banks are doing fine. they're strong. ceos are fine. their numbers are strong. we're seeing, you know, that 1% doing quite well. but it just has not made its way yet to the middle class in the way that i think a lot of people believe that it should. i know you supported stimulus in the beginning. i'm wondering what your thoughts are on what we need to do now to try to ensure that we speed up the recovery, if you will. >> it's a great question, karen. because i think in some ways it's been left unaddressed. i don't think either party has done enough to make the case that -- the question of jobs and the wage loss of the middle class is still the number one economic challenge we face. we've got to put more tools on

the table to jump start the economy. we had a payroll tax cut in 2011 and 2012. i thought we should have put that in place for a third year because of the jump starting jobs impact. without something like that operative and moving, i think we should try a hiring credit. so if you hire you get 10% tax credit. we should focus on the plight of the middle class. which even predated the downturn of '07, '08 and '09. it's made ever worse by the numbers that we're seeing today. we're getting job growth, but not at a fast enough clip. not enough momentum yet. >> all right. thank you so much for your time today, senator bob casey of pennsylvania. >> thanks, karen. at this hour we continue to watch the devastating storms that are sweeping colorado. the confirmed death toll there stands at four with another two people assumed dead. nearly 500 people unaccounted for. president obama who's already declared a state of emergency called governor don hickenlooper today to receive an update on

the situation and, of course, expressed his concern for the colorado citizens. please visit redcross.org to find out how you can help. msnbc will continue to bring the details of this historic flooding as they unfold. later in this hour, congressman john lewis on the 50th anniversary of the birmingham bombing. and what kind of reception is secretary kerry getting in israel today? that's coming up. >> we need a word for when you change your mind because obama has agreed with you. we came up with this word. it should be in the dictionary. blacktrack. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call.

[ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? car insurance companies say they'll save you by switching, you'd have, like, a ton of dollars. but how are they saving you those dollars? a lot of companies might answer "um" or "no comment." then there's esurance. born online, raised by technology and majors in efficiency. so whatever they save, you save. hassle, time, paperwork, hair-tearing out, and, yes, especially dollars. esurance. insurance for the modern world. now backed by allstate. click or call.

all your important legal matters in just minutes. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

the ongoing conflict in

syria has enormous -- the fact of weapon of mass destruction having been used. against the people of their own state. these are crimes against humanity. they cannot be tolerated and they are a threat to the capacity of the global community to be able to live by standards of rules of law. >> that was secretary of state john kerry speaking today in jerusalem after meeting with israeli president benjamin netanyahu. it's part of the administration's diplomatic push to make the proposed disposal of syria's chemical weapons a reality. while kerry heads to paris where he'll meet tomorrow with foreign ministers from france, the uk and saudi arabia, reports of ongoing violence inside syria raised questions about the assad regime's willingness to cooperate with the international community. joining me now to discuss the reaction in the region, nbc's m

ayman mo ha deen. we hear on the one sense the rebels from their perspective, this doesn't really solve their problem. they're not particularly pleased with it. many are skeptical of assad. many sort of regular syrians. because in the past they believe, you know, he's been a liar. they've heard this before. they don't necessarily think things -- >> reporter: -- come out and said this was a victory to avert a war. it was a major breakthrough for peace in the region, if you will. more importantly for the united states in the sense that it has backed down from what they

describe as a possible aggression against the syrian people. nonetheless, there are those here across the region, particularly the syrian opposition, who are really set back by all of the developments of the last two weeks. about a possible military strike that could have weakened the regime. now this agreement that in some ways almost kind of puts president bashar al assad in power for at least the next year. that is at least what one opposition syrian described it to me. he said that by having this agreement that effectively allows the syrian government to dismantle its chemical weapons by the middle of next year, you've almost locked the syrian government into this international agreement or international frame work that'll even make it more difficult to have calls for the president to step down or to have regime change. nonetheless, the syrian opposition is calling on not only the ban of chemical weapons by the syrian reyeem, but more importantly for the international community to impose a no fly zone in the northern part of the country and to also ban the use of ballistic

missiles and weapons that are being used by the syrian regime against the opposition and the syrian rebels. they are looking at this as an opportunity. they're trying to spin it in their favor by saying this is a first step. it's a good step because it does at least prevent the use of chemical weapons. but it must be expanded to include other types of weapons that the regime is using against its own people. >> ayman, to that point we heard reports today that the russians, while we're moving forward on removing chemical weapons, may actually be rearming or bringing in more conventional weapons to the assad regime. to the point the rebels are making, that really doesn't go to solving the underlying problem. it takes out one kind of weaponry but replaces it with yet another. >> reporter: well, yeah. that has been one of the criticisms of the way the u.s. has handled this. or at least some of the arguing points against the u.s. and

international community. yes, they were very concerned about the use of chemical weapons, that 1,400 people by u.s. estimates were killed in that chemical weapons attack back on august 21st. by the overwhelming majority, the 100,000-plus people that have been killed over the course of the last two years have been killed by conventional weapons. and there's not enough being done to stop the use of these conventional weapons. part of that is because you have countries like russia who are standing by the syrian regime, still supplies it with arms. more importantly, you also have some of the regional countries and players here including hezbollah and lebanon sending fighters, sending weapons as well as iran who have also come out and publicly stated that they are supporting the regime. given the fact that you have an influx of weapons coming into syria from all sides, really, including the saudis and qatarries helping the rebels, you can understand why people are concerned the developments of this past week are not enough to stop the violence. >> steve, to you. there's obviously been quite a bit of criticism, not surprisingly, of the president.

one point that was made was that actually president obama, this may be, you know, a genius sort of move in that you now have a situation where putin owns this process. and whether it, you know, fails or moves forward, he will really -- has really put himself out there on the international stage. and that that actually, while some see that as a negative to obama, it actually could end up being a positive. >> look, this is showing a very mature president. he may be a lucky mature president who's just fine with another world leader getting a bit of spotlight, being allowed to strut his stuff. therefore being accountable. we can't have a world where the united states and russia are permanently divided on all things. there are too many major challenges out there in the international system that are going to require cooperation and collaboration between russia and the united states. in this particular case, as unlikely as it is, vladimir putin is the one. it has given president obama, i think, a very big potential win if this syria deal on chemical

weapons really comes through. when you look at the region, you know, i think everything that ayman said is absolutely right. you may end up with the opposition in syria basically routed by the regime. you know, israel doesn't really want to see islamic radicals running syria. you may have a weaker, degraded syria still holding in place in the region largely like it looks today. >> steve, i mean, you know, let's talk about what happens next. you've obviously had a number of different conversations with, you know, folks on all sides of this. obviously secretary kerry is trying to get support from our allies. we've got the u.n. meeting beginning this week here in new york. what will it take to ensure that this process keeps moving forward and also how are we going to be able to verify? there's been a lot of conversation about this trust but verify. but i haven't heard much in the way of details in terms of how

we will actually be able to verify that the syrians are making good on the deal that's been cut. >> everyone should be skeptical. but the key element is that john kerry and sergey lavrov agreed that those inspectors and those responsible for dealing with a chemical weapons inside syria will have chapter 7 authority which means the threat of use of force behind them. the reason i think barack obama kicked this into the congress was that he felt that there wasn't a lot of, you know, instruments out there endorsing or legit mating the move he was going to make. if there's an agreement in the u.n. security council of chapter 7 authority behind it and if the syrians begin to wriggle or slip away or not cooperate, it's very easy to see without congressional authorization president obama taking immediate military action because he will have in hand what he didn't have before. which is a u.n. security council resolution authorizing use of force. i think that's a very big game changer in this equation. >> all right.

thank you to ayman mohyeldin and steve clemmons. next, the president tells speaker boehner to stand up to his party's fringe. that's coming up. >> if that president is in a situation in which each time the united states is called upon to pay its bills, the other party can simply sit there and say, well, we're not going to pay the bills unless you give us what we want, that changes the constitutional structure of this government entirely. is this the bacon and cheese diet?

this is the creamy chicken corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups. i don't miss out... you sat out most of our game yesterday! asthma doesn't affect my job... you were out sick last week.

my asthma doesn't bother my family... you coughed all through our date night! i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all. what did you say? how about - every day? coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. so, i'm working on a cistern intake valve, and the guy hands me a locknut wrench. no way! i'm like, what is this, a drainpipe slipknot? wherever your business takes you, you can save money with progressive commercial auto. [ sighs ] [ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today. especially today, as people are looking for more low, and no calorie options. that's why on vending machines,

we're making it easy for people to know how many calories are in their favorite beverages, before they choose. and we're offering more low calorie options, including over 70 in our innovative coca-cola free-style dispensers. working with our beverage industry and restaurant partners, we're helping provide choices that make sense for everyone. because when people come together, good things happen. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. when it comes to budgets, we've never had a situation in which a party said that, you know, unless we get our way 100%, then we're going to let the united states default. >> that was the president on offense this morning trying to

get ahead of what will be another week occupied by, you guessed it, a manufactured republican crisis. their effort to shut down the government. he'll make his case tomorrow, as he marks the fifth anniversary of the financial crisis. on wednesday he'll deliver remarks to the business round table. all that as republican house leaders, if you can call them that, try to rein in their tea party friends. something they failed at this week when speaker john boehner and majority leader eric cantor tried to convince them to pass a spending bill. that left obama care intact. it was texas senator ted cruz who called that plan chicanery. congressman jason chaffets called it hocus pocus. joining me now is associate editor of the "the hill" amy stoddard. msnbc contributor james peterson. thanks to you both. >> thanks, karen. >> i want to start with you.

it strikes me we've had syria kind of playing itself out. last week we did see the beginnings, again, of the drama that we were really expecting to kick off is fall. that is obviously this question about the debt ceiling and shutting down the government. it strikes me that the president is trying to go on offense and get ahead of what he knows, i think, and what we all can see is going to be another kind of messy week, messy messaging from the republicans this week on capitol hill. but do you think it's going to work? >> well, i mean, it's one thing for president obama to say this wasn't the way it used to be and it's not the way it should be. all this political polarization can bring the greatest nation on earth to the brink of default and hold global markets, you know, in its palm while these fights continue to the 11th hour. and threaten our, you know, credit ratings and everything like that. but the truth is things have changed. and it's -- it's a good goal that he wants to go back to the

days when this didn't happen. after 2011 july and we -- we're at right at the brink passing that deal on august 2nd, that then created a supercommittee that then failed that then brought the sequester that people are still trying to block, it really is -- things are different now. now what we thought was going to happen was that the republican leaders would find a way to pass a really quick, short-term spending bill that would get us till december. because the receipts were looking so good coming into the government, because of the sequester and the tax hike of january 1, that we were going to not have this fight till december. now the administration has warned congressional leaders that this is actually happening in mid-october. all the sudden they have five legislative days to figure it out. you are right, john boehner has no idea how he's going to get through this. i don't think that president obama really can say we're not going to negotiate. if you look at public opinion polls, the majority of americans don't want to raise the debt ceiling. they do believe in a formula of commensurate spending cuts with, you know, with the same ratio as

the increase in the debt ceiling. that part is where republicans believe that they have the public will on their side. the defund obama care and shut the government down, you know, if we don't is not going to work. republicans in leadership will tell you it's not going to work. that's what they're fighting with conservatives about now. the debt ceiling thing is not something president obama can actually believe that he can walk away from simply because default is too frightening. >> to that point, james, i think the president, he's also got a couple of other things on his mind. we saw the reports last week that indicate as the president has talked about, the recovery is not reaching enough of american citizens. and the middle class and working people. right? it's the 1% is doing fine. the banks are doing fine. >> that's right. >> we saw some poll numbers that suggest that his support on his handling of the economy is actually waning. but i think when -- then when you are up against a republican caucus that says delay obama care, which we also know majority of americans don't

necessarily favor that, how can he possibly give away his most valuable negotiating chip which is to say i'm not going to negotiate with you over the, you know, raising of the debt ceiling, more the shutting down of the government because it's not the way it's ever been done before? that's not the way we do things. >> yeah. i mean, and it's -- maybe it makes sense in some sort of political back room where people are afraid of being out flanked by tea party challengers. but in the real world, no. this kind of playing politics with the debt ceiling doesn't make sense. i don't really trust the polls. i know we use polls a lot here. you've got to be careful with polls. they can be worded in certain ways that folk may not really understand exactly what the debt ceiling means and what the debt ceiling battle actually means. because it's really about paying our bills. it's not about necessarily increased spending. when you look across this economy, when you take a look at the fact that out of those 7.5 million jobs that the president's touting this

morning, you know, about 1 million of those jobs are manufacturing and auto. but a lot of those jobs are part-time jobs. a lot of those jobs are, like, fast food jobs. what's missing from this recovery is the kind of infrastructure spending, the kind of robust government support of important infrastructure and rebuilding of america that's been a part of every recovery in the history of this country. that's what's missing here. that's really where we need to continue to push this fight. the debt ceiling to me is kind of a distraction from what the real challenges are around this economy. i hope that the president will continue to push the envelope with republicans and with members of congress so we can actually get to the real work of making sure that we're creating jobs in this economy. not just on the private side, but also on the public side. >> guys, i also thought, we've got some sound from the president earlier today in this interview that he did where he was talking about the tea party. i do think that it was wise of him to -- i don't think most people understand what really happens when the debt ceiling

goes up or down. they get what government shutdown means to them in their lives. i thought from the president's perspective trying to sort of reframe this and simplify this conversation in terms of how unprecedented it is, how this is not the way the constitution is supposed to work, that's something i think ordinary americans, everybody can kind of understand what that means. let's take a listen to the president and i want to get your reaction. >> the problem we have is we have a faction of the republican party in the house of representatives in particular that view compromise as a dirty word. and anything that is even remotely associated with me, they feel obliged to oppose. >> quickly i want to get both of your response. a.b., what do you have? you have members -- republican members of the house saying what we really need is a 42nd vote against obama care. >> wait. karen, there's a difference between a vote to -- what republican leadership wants is to ask in exchange for a -- the

administration has given a year delay to businesses for the employer mandate. >> the business community asked for that. >> well, they're arguing that americans should not be forced on january 1 to go to an exchange and find, you know, health care that may no longer be provided by their employer. they might find it's actually more expensive than what they had before with higher deductibles and less coverage. that's actually something that many americans are anxious about. it's why obama care is only looking at 39% approval in the polls. that's the corner of the leadership thinks they really would have the president in. they know the defund movement which is different than delay is unrealistic. it wouldn't work. and that a majority of americans put in polls don't want it to be defunded or entirely repealed. >> also i think -- you know, this was a clever shift. they've gone from, again, shutdown, which i think the republicans recognized they would have taken a big hit on

that. to a message that outilizes the debt ceiling which more people don't fully understand. they've gone from defund to delay. it still has that feeling of desperation that, you know, once we hit october 1st and the program really comes online, the more people in the system, the more it's working, the more president obama gets credit and it feels like that is the one thing the republicans feel like they cannot have happen. we unfortunately are to leave it there. i want to thank a.b. stoddard and james pettersson. >> thanks, karen. next, 50 years after racing to the scene of the birmingham church bombing, congressman john lewis joins us live to reflect on the impact of the loss of four innocent children. and what impact that had on the movement. hat the reason we're always stopping is because i have to go to the bathroom. and when we're sitting in traffic, i worry i'll have an accident. be right back. so today, i'm finally going to talk to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms.

[ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or cannot empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz can cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness, and decreased sweating. do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks until you know how toviaz affects you. the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. [ susan ] today, i'm visiting my son without visiting every single bathroom. [ female announcer ] today, talk to your doctor about toviaz.

in birmingham today, church bells rang at the 16th street baptist church at 10:22 a.m. central time, marking the moment 50 years ago when four young girls were killed in a racist bombing.

september 15th, 1963, was a sunday just like today. the girls were in the basement preparing for youth service. 11-year-old denise mcnear had just asked 14-year-old addy may collins to help her tie her belt when a box of dynamite went off under the church steps, blowing a hole in the church's rear wall and destroying all but one of the stained glass windows. it was the fourth bombing in birmingham in four weeks. it was meant to send a message. birmingham city schools had been integrated by national guards men just a few days earlier. only a week before the church bombing, governor george wallace said "new york times" in the alabama could stop integration with a few, quote, first class funerals, unquote. the governor tried to walk that back after the bombing by adding to the reward for the killers. martin luther king told him in a telegram that, quote, the blood of four little children is on your hands. your irresponsible and misguided actions have created in birmingham and alabama the atmosphere that has induced continued violence and now

murder. y justice came slowly with the last bomber not being convicted until 2002. these murders were part of a nexus of events that pushed civil rights movement forward. martin luther king had delivered his "i have a dream" speech less than three weeks earlier. me medger evers has been murdered just that previous june. poll taxes were outlawed. the civil rights act was signed in 1964. congressman john lewis was in birmingham that day in 1963 as the head of the student nonviolent coordinating committee. he returned there this week after he and the congressional black caucus awarded the girls the congressional medal of honor. he joins me now. congressman lewis, it's an honor to have you with me. >> thank you very much, karen. thank you for having me. to hear you make the statement, it just reminded me of what happened in birmingham 50 years ago. and it's still hard to believe

that it did happen. but it did happen. >> you know, congressman, can you -- for those who don't know, talk a little bit about the significance of the 16th street baptist church. it was a very intentional target of those bombings. >> the 16th street baptist church was the meeting place. it was where many of the mass meetings were held during the spring of 1963. and many of the young people, especially the students, would gather at 16th street baptist church along with the adults. and lead the church in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion. to march the steps through a park to make it downtown. and it was in the park across the street from the church that they used the dogs, the fire hoses, on little children and women. the power of the fire hoses was so strong, it would knock bark

off of the trees. it would literally pick up people and drop them. it was -- it was unreal. unbelievable. it was just a vicious act on the part of the commissioner of public safety, eugene connor. >> congressman, i know you've share sd so many of your experiences from that period. it's my understanding you arrived in birmingham a short period of time after the bombing. i wonder if you could tell us kind of what your thoughts were when you arrived and the experiences that you had in the days that followed. >> well, i arrived there only about four hours after the bombing. and stood across the street, directly from the church. and i met my friend and my colleague from the student nonviolent coordinating committee, julian bond. and we just stood there. not saying a word.

it was just hard for us to believe what had happened. but we made a decision. those of us in the movement. not just the student nonviolent coordinating committee members. not just the young people, the young activists. to intensify our efforts, to go into selma, alabama. to go deeper into the state of mississippi and fight for the right to vote. we had attended the funerals of the four little girls. and we've heard dr. king deliver the wruljy. we had to act. we had to move. we could not let the bombing of the church that took the lives of these four little girls stop a nonviolent movement for the right to vote and to end discrimination and segregation throughout the south. >> one of the things you have done that i think is really incredible to bring this story of the movement to a younger generation, because there's

obvious so many lessons, particularly the lesson of nonviolence and what it means to really live in a nonviolent way to this younger generation. particularly as we're at a time when we're still fighting for jobs. we're still fighting poverty. so many of the issues. so the graphic novel, many people may not know. but you are publishing a series of graphic novels. the first one "march" was out earlier this year. you actually went to comic-con. i understand you meant lou ferigno, the hulk, while you were there. sounds incredibly fun. the second one i understand comes out in the fall. talk about why you wanted to do these graphic novels. >> well, i wanted to do this book, a graphic novel called "march," book one. and there will be a book two. then a book three. to try to dramatize it with the illustrator nate powell. this gifted artist.

make it real. make it come alive. and with the help of my co-writ co-writer, it's a beautiful book. it's doing very, very well. a lot of young people, a lot of students, high school teachers, college history professors are reading it. they're telling their students to read it. to get people to understand and saying to another generation, you, too, can get involved in bringing about change. and saying to people, don't be afraid. use the way of peace. the way of love. the way of nonviolence. >> congressman lewis, thank you so very much for joining us today. >> thank you. coming up next, a 501-c-6? a new class of weapons and the money raised for campaign cash. how the coke brothers refuse to take defeat sitting down. that's coming up. ♪

no two people have the same financial goals. pnc investments works with you to understand yours and helps plan for your retirement. talk to a pnc investments financial advisor today. ♪

you feel...squeezed. congested. beat down. crushed. as if the weight of the world is resting on your face. but sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief. so you feel free. liberated. released. decongested. open for business. [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] powerful sinus relief from the #1 pharmacist recommended brand. sudafed. open up. ♪ we go, go, we don't have to go solo ♪ ♪ fire, fire, you can take me higher ♪ ♪ take me to the mountains, start a revolution ♪ ♪ hold my hand, we can make, we can make a contribution ♪ ♪ brand-new season, keep it in motion ♪ ♪ 'cause the rhyme is the reason ♪ ♪ break through, man, it doesn't matter who you're talking to ♪ [ male announcer ] completely redesigned for whatever you love to do. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more. ♪

so you've heard of 527s, 501-c3s and c4s. ways for super rich to fund cash to campaigns to keep their involvements secret. thanks to the coke brothers we're learning of the 501-c6. earlier this week politico broke news about the billionaire koch brothers and their super secret conservative group which pumped hundred of millions of dollars into the 2012 election cycle. how did they do it without anyone noticing? the 501-c6. according to politico the group freedom partners and its president mark short serve as an outlet for the ideas and funds of the mysterious koch brothers cutting checks as large as $63 million to groups promoting conservative causes. according to an irs document to be filed shortly. here's what we know about freedom partners. there are roughly 200 donors each paying at least $100,000 in

annual dues. it raised $256 million after its creation in 2011. and made grants of $236 million during the last election cycle. so where's all that money going? well, here's a list of the various groups that have been identified as receiving money from freedom partners. among them, the nra and americans for prosperity. what do the billionaire brothers have to say for themselves? according to to a statement on kochfacts.com freedom partners a nonprofit, nonpartisan business league that promotes the benefits of free markets and a free society. okay. joining me now to discuss the various layers of secrecy, "washington post" political columnist dana milbank and salon.com's katie mcdonough. dana, i want to start with you. we've talked many times about the campaign cash wars. i didn't really even know what a 501-c6 was. right? we have a definition from the irs. but basically that definition, i

think, boils down to another way to write a big check to a group that can then give money to a cause you care about. or campaign. >> yeah. i guess you could sort of think of it as the bernie madoff for the political world. yeah. it's just a way of higher price admission. this is a hedge fund equivalent so they can get in yet another way. the only thing i don't quite understand here is why it's necessary. there's really -- you know, the flood gates are completely open for all kinds of corporate activity. okay. here's one more way that they can do it. they're not one step ahead of the sheriff here. they're a mile ahead. >> well -- >> the whole thing has become the wild west. >> they have, what, given to 501-c 3s and 4s. let's get in a six to round out the numbers. >> by the time they can figure out this is a scam they'll be on to the c7. >> it's my understanding companies can actually write off direct contributions to the group as a business expense.

a lot easier than they can a 501-c4. perhaps that's part of the pitch of getting people to give money. katie, one of the things that strikes me is the way there's really these layers of secrecy. they give to one group that then gives to another group. whereas, for example, you've heard david koch, i believe it is, said he's not really so interested in the social issues. at the same time, if you look at where the money goes, a lot of their money has gone to organizations that fight choice. the anti-abortion movement. you specifically wrote this week about texas and their involvement in that movement. >> so it's two-fold. in texas, you had specifically the legislation itself was model legislation from americans united for life. it wasn't something that lautenberg came up with her own. it was a d.c. based advocacy group called americans united for life. that model legislation sent out across the country. that's what hb-2 is. americans united for life is a

grantee of a group called a center to protect life. it's a layering of layering of layering. koch money is all over the place when it comes to anti-choice politicians and anti-choice groups in the united states. >> dana, quickly before we go, the other thing we've seen is that with these groups, they've also been able to get involved more easily in state issues. i mean, we saw the koches very involved -- not talking about the phone call. involved in wisconsin and very much involved in the movement there with scott walker against the labor movement there. >> yeah. it's yet another vehicle to get into every nook and cranny that -- that they have not been able to exploit before. you think of grants in terms of somebody's curing cancer. somebody's developing underprivileged communities. no. these grants are going for very fundamental political pups unrp under the guise of some

humanitarian benefit. >> i think the term, dana, is social -- i don't know. social welfare organization. >> that's exactly what it is. >> somebody's welfare. >> they do like welfare, the coo koch brothers. >> they just didn't know it. stay with us. much more ahead. ♪ you make me, make me, make me go crazy ♪ ♪ you make me, make me, make me go crazy. ♪ not double-talk. if you have the nerve to believe that in a puzzling financial world, clarity is king. [ man ] if you believe nothing beats a sit-down for knowing where you stand. [ male announcer ] join the nearly 7 million investors who think like you do: face time and think time make a difference. join us. [ male announcer ] for 90 years, it's how edward jones has made sense of investing.

[ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. some are giant. some not so giant. when managing your weight, bigger is always better. ♪ ho ho ho ♪ green giant ♪ ho ho ho ♪ don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom! don't tell mom. okay. don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom? yeah. the best stories you'll ever tell start with, don't tell." don't tell dad. start yours in the new santa fe. from hyundai.

that does it for me. find us on facebook and tweet us @msnbcdisrupt and share your thoughts. as we close we're wrapping up a week that was largely dominated by the debate about more strongly pursuing a diplomatic solution while delays any u.s. military reaction in the response to chemical weapons use in syria. this played out against the backdrop of the 12th anniversary at the 9/11 remarks. two years ago at the ten-year mark we took a hard look at the chris risks and costs that can come with using the military option.

stay tuned for an encore presentation of their report. day of destruction. decade of war. [ female announcer ] who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours.

your husband left his cell phone on. and you're not necessarily proud of that. but tonight, he made the pizza. ...with johnsonville italian sausage. the premium cuts of pork and perfect blend of herbs and spices

gave every bite even more flavor. and everyone loved it. and you're definitely proud of that. johnsonville. served with pride since 1945. and struggle to sleep comfortably together, now there's a solution. sleep number dual temp, the revolutionary temperature-balancing layer with active air technology that works on any mattress brand, including yours. whether you sleep hot or cool, sleep number dual temp allows each of you to select your ideal temperature. and it's only at one of our 425 sleep number stores nationwide. sleep number. comfort individualized. no two people have the same financial goals. pnc investments works with you to understand yours