right fighter challenged him in the right way. and now you know the rest of the story. gladwell's book is out october 1st. that does it for "the cycle". the david of msnbc, martin bashir, starts right now. >> you're right. i'm only 5'6 1/2". friday september 21st. welcome to the united states 2013 where government shutdowns are as american as apple pie. ♪ here they come yo >> the rookie revolt. >> if you're a comfort and love jesus and apple pie, you will vote to defund obamacare. >> will shut down the u.s. government -- >> do you remember charlie sheen when he was kind of going crazy? >> we had a victory today for the american people. >> i think we are winning and i'm not on any drugs. >> this is playing with fire. >> i want to commend house conservatives. >> obamacare is dead! ♪ i know you want it ♪ >> the bill, which has no chance of surviving.

>> many senate republicans have promised to leave no stone unturned. >> i will do everything possible -- >> filibuster? >> yes. >> once the republicans cannibalize each other. >> this is a question that should be directedo mr. john boehner. >> i want to commend speaker boehner. >> the house has listened to the american people. >> you don't have to threaten to blow the whole thing up just because you don't get your way. ♪ >> a funny thing happened on the way to the republicans' 42nd vote today to defund the affordable care act, something that any writer of a comic farce would have struggled to imagine. >> yes, speaker boehner being warmly applauded by his fellow republicans at their forum in

washington. his cynical decision to jump on the affordable care act bandwagon has sent mr. boehner's stock in the gop rising. and it is that decision which has given life to a new man many claim is speaker in name-only. >> the house has listened to the american people. now it's time for the united states senate to listen to them as well. >> now, there's an implicit dig there in that statement. not so much at democratic senators, but at one republican senator in particular. a legend in his own lunch time, the great and the terrible ted cruz. this latest defunding health care fight, which is tied to a bill that temporarily funds the government through to december is his baby in its entirety. and so with house republicans doing their dismal duty, they've now handed the responsibility back to their friend in the upper chamber. the only problem is that not

everyone is quite so confident about placing the nation's destiny in cruise control. >> hopefully it will be a major step in letting people know that ted cruz is a fraud and will no longer have any influence in the republican party. >> ted cruz and others like him have been writing checks with their mouth their votes can't cash. and, you know, i think now they have to put up or shut up. >> wow. what candor. how refreshing. this is not to say, of course, that mr. boehner can breathe easy for very long. after all, there are still many republicans besides mr. cruz who take the fight to defund the health care act as an article of faith. quite literally, in fact. >> it's amazing when elected officials hear from their constituents, sometimes they find jesus and do the right thing. >> as for the white house reaction to all of this, while touring a ford motor plant in liberty, missouri this afternoon, the president offered another polite but thorough analysis. >> they're focused on politics,

they're focused on trying to mess with me. they're not focused on you. >> for more on that reaction, let's go to nbc's kristen welker, traveling with the president today in missouri. kristen, the back drop for today's visit to a ford motor plant is a powerful symbol of that other big legislative achievement of 2009 for the president, the auto bailout. what's been the white house reaction, though, to today's vote, as well as the gop's civil war that's now brewing before us? >> hi there, martin. well, you're right. this was an economy-themed tour here in the outskirts of kansas city, missouri. but i can tell you, the president had a strong, succinct message for republicans. he said in his words, quote, do your job. the president's strategy right now is to sort of take his message about the economy on the

road, criticize republicans and let republicans duke it out amongst themselves. that is what is happening right now. in the wake of that vote in the republican-controlled house today, you had some conservative members, tea party members of the party saying this was the right move, but then a lot of those more establishment republicans criticizing members of their own party, saying this is a kamikaze mission. of course, the bill has absolutely no chance of passing through the democratically controlled senate. so democrats sort of letting republicans hang out there and take the blame for this, as frustration mounts all across the country about the possibility of a possible government shutdown which seems more and more likely each and every day. if that does happen, though, martin, of course there will be plenty of blame to go around for everyone, including the president. i can tell you, i spoke with folks here who attended the president's event. they just want washington to do their job and to get a budget passed. martin? >> they're not the only people,

kristin. thank you for battling the disassembling of that event. thank you, kristen welker. let's get to our panel. angela wry, strategist with impact strategies. robert costa, editor for washington review and jonathan capehart, opinion writer for "washington post" and msnbc contributor. robert, if i can start with you, i couldn't help but think if republicans were willing to trash ted cruz on camera, what they're saying behind closed doors must be even more insulting. so pray tell, what are you hearing? >> martin, it's pretty bad, pretty vicious behind the scenes. >> how vicious is it? >> i'll tell you how vicious. some house members told me yet that it got so bad against senator cruz and the republican cloak room in the house that senator cruz was actually cursed by some house members in the cloak room. the distaste for senator cruz, especially his tactics on the cr, have really just made him a pariah within his own party. >> so you're saying, robert, he

went into a cloak room, confronted by some of his colleagues who used foul language to describe his behavior? >> well, senator cruz was not in the cloak room with them. but house members are talking behind the scenes very actively and with a lot of animation about senator cruz and they're being very negative. and it's spilling out into the public. and you're seeing a civil war, not only in public, but behind the scenes. and there's real anger. and the house feels that if it just puts the pressure on cruz now to get the votes in the senate, they're almost putting it back on his shoulders, making him be responsible. >> jonathan, on the opposite side of that, the political action committee founded by jim demint and his supporting ted cruz has just reported record fund-raising for august, $1.5 million raised for the senate conservatives' funds. so attempting to defund the affordable care act is actually fantastic business for these people. >> well, of course.

this is what the base wants. the base doesn't care that this isn't going to go anywhere. in fact, they don't believe that this isn't going to go anywhere. they actually believe that senator cruz can actually get the house bill passed through the senate when everyone in the reality-based community knows this isn't going to happen. so, of course, jim demint and other folks go out there and they rattle the tin cup to get contributions and people willingly give them money. >> does people think -- are they being duped? >> yes, they are being duped by it. but i have to say, again, they are -- they are -- complicit in their own duping. they are unwilling to understand the facts as they are, as we all see it. and so they're willing to throw away their money to a cause that's going to go nowhere. >> absolutely nowhere. angela, let me show you findings from a new poll. a whopping 27% believe shutting down the government to defund the nation's health care law is

good politics. 27%. how is that -- how is it that republicans say they're listening to the american people as john boehner said today, when the figures are as low as that? >> because they're listening to a select few, many of which are in their party, martin. >> but andrea, he just said we're listening to the american people. >> no, i understand that. and he is listening to some of the american people. a select minority. and what's really ironic here is the fact that they continue to push obamacare's horrible, obamacare is bad. but never followed up on the replace part of their repeal and replace strategy. so they're willing to defund obamacare, hoping this vote in the house will somehow go somewhere when senator reed has already said it's dead on arrival. furthermore, so are their constituents. their constituents don't have the health care they need. they continue to vote against their interests, because members of congress who have the best health care in the country are telling them to not -- to

support this, just because of who the president is and what he stands for. >> the ironies are immense, angela. robert, i was interested in reading a piece you had today, where senator rand paul, whose name is often mentioned, as you know, in the same sentence as that of ted cruz, just comes out and essentially tells you, no, none of this will work. he basically trashes his colleague. >> that's right. he took a barrel of cold water, martin and poured it on to have of this defunding effort within the republican party. senator paul was surprisingly candid in his interview. he said this has no shot of passing the senate. harry reid is going to take that language out to defund the obamacare law and he's going to snatch it out and just pass a clean continuing resolution to fund the government. senator paul knows that's the reality and i spoke to senator cruz himself two days ago and i'm pretty sure he knows that's the reality. he's not even whipping votes to try to pass his own defunding plan in the senate. they may do a talking filibuster next week, but it's not going to pass, not going to get through. >> okay.

john, how does that -- what robert has just said about his interview with rand paul shine with what rand paul has just said, which is they're winning. they're winning. the extreme fringe of the republican party is now winning. alla charlie sheen. >> maybe it's an inside/outside game being played. look, like i said before, we all know that this isn't going to happen. you've got rand paul and ted cruz, who are, as you said, rivals, potentially, for 2016. of course rand paul is going to say ted cruz is an adult buffoon and what he's doing is never going to happen. but he's speaking the truth. so i am -- i am less concerned about the intermeshing battles within the republican party than i am about the impact it will have on the country. >> on the nation. >> right now we're looking at the short-term problem of a government shutdown. if a continuing resolution isn't passed by october 1st. coming up, almost immediately after that -- >> 18th of october.

>> yes, is the dead ceiling. and they're also trying to tie lifting the nation's borrowing limit to defunding obamacare. and i'm telling you right now, i make this prediction, and i'm not happy about it. the government is going to shut down, and i hope i'm wrong. >> i disagree, martin. >> oh, you do? it's not going to happen? >> you know why? i think speaker boehner right now is going through the motions, throwing a bone to the right with his vote today to try to say this is never going to pass. let's go through the motions and then let's come back and do a plan b. >> how -- >> angela. >> how many bones is he going to throw? >> 42 votes later. i mean, somebody really believes that this is a winning strategy, as martin just said, because they continue to do it. i hope that the republican party, even though i don't agree with a lot of their tactics, is not that crazy to continue to waste the time of all of the people that continue to elect them. i hope they think that this is going to work. >> angela, jonathan, mr. costa,

you're in philadelphia for your twin brother's wedding tomorrow. congratulations to him. and to the happy couple. thank you all so much. >> thank you, martin. i appreciate that. coming up, we welcome both sides of the gun debate. but first, yesterday we found good reason to praise kentucky's junior senator. today we find ample reason to take it all back, #andall. does anybody remember charlie sheen when he was kind of going crazy last year? ♪ this is for you. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

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what conversations have you had with him about running for president? >> essentially none. you look at where he's

traveling, which states he's going to, i would think it's on his mind. but actually, i haven't any personal conversations with him. >> that was former texas congressman and presidential candidate, ron paul, telling our "morning joe" colleagues that he never speaks to his son rand about a possible presidential run. it's a claim that mr. paul senior regularly makes. but we're not entirely convinced by his denials, particularly when you consider that kentucky senator rand paul spoke with such 2016 aplomb last night, before an audience of the liberty political action conference. the same liberty political action conference where ron paul will be the headline act this evening. complete with $250 a person private reception, with the senior paul following along now complete. according to the schedule of events with premium open bar and heavy appetizers. one of the conference sponsors

is rand pack, one-stop shopping for your fantasies. and if we're ready to believe this claim of noncommunication, it almost begs the question, why wouldn't you do the fatherly thing and offer all that was good and wise from your former presidential attempts? because we know that young rand, well, he's feeling the tiger blood. or is it elephant blood? in his veins. >> does anybody remember charlie sheen when he was going kind of crazy last year? and he was going around, jumping around saying, winning, winning, we're winning. i kind of feel like that. i think we are winning. and i'm not on any drugs. >> well, maybe it is time we began drug testing for congress. coming up, going full-blown kamikaze, what's a house democrat to do but sit back and enjoy the view? ♪

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most people would assume that the chief whip of the house republicans would be a good mathematician, and an excellent counter of votes. and so with that in mind, just listen to how california's kevin mccarthy described today's vote to defund the affordable care act. a vote which, i might add, attracted a grand total of two, yes one, two democrats, to a united gop front. >> today when we acted, it wasn't just a group of republicans, but it was a bipartisan vote. let me state that again, because i want to make sure you write it correctly. it was a bipartisan vote. because we're americans. >> joining us now is democratic

congressman joe crowley of new york. good afternoon, sir. >> great to be with you, martin, once again. >> mr. crowley, if that's what mr. mccarthy calls a bipartisan vote, do you think he also believes that the "national enquirer" has just taken a photograph of elvis landing on the moon? >> well, i could tell you something, martin. i've seen bipartisanship here in washington in the past. this is no example of bipartisanship. you can't say that two people joining in on a republican bill is representative of bipartisanship whatsoever. what we're looking for, martin, is solutions to the problems of this country. and the bill that they passed today is not a solution. it, once again, gives the opportunity for the american people to see just what the republican party stands for. they are about taking away health care from americans. they are about really attacking s.n.a.p. program.

>> well, sir, as you're saying that, en route to today's volt, as you know, which is en ti ich tended to deny better health care to americans, republicans also decided to stick it to the poor by slashing the food stamp program. and the great thing about the vote yesterday is that they will deprive 4 million people of assistance. which according to the census bureau is exactly the same number as those who have managed to stay just above poverty, because of food stamps. i mean, it's getting harder not to conclude that this is a party poisoned by an ideology that believes every poor person, every disabled person, every person in need, is feckless, lazy, fraudulent, and deserves to starve. >> all those children, martin. all the children that need to make sure that they have enough food in their bellies, nutritious food, so when they go to school, they can learn.

and they can learn and graduate, martin. and be prepared for the job market in this country, in this world. they're denying them that opportunity. and in essence, martin, what they're doing, they are putting that on the back burner, and we will pay for that later in our lives. and in their lives, as well. >> mr. crowley, are all the people who rely on food stamps in your constituency, are they useless, free loaders who want to live their entire lives on welfare? >> certainly not. you know, martin, in new york city, it's tough to get by on what is considered the median wage. in my district, it's no different. in queens and parts of the bronx. people are struggling to make ends meet. and, you know what? food stamps, they're not great. they don't go a long way. but they do help make those ends meet for many families who are struggling today. and, again, it just once again shows the difference in the values, the vision of this country. the votes that took place today

and yesterday are not symbolic of the vision that i had of this country growing up. and i think for americans today. it's not the vision of the country they know and love. >> and yet these political match nations are bringing us perilously close yet again to a government shutdown. are your friends on the other side of the aisle, are they happy they're threatening to make this country resemble the democratic republic of congo, where government doesn't function? is that the international reputation that they seek for a nation they say they love so much? >> unfortunately, martin, i think for some of them, that is the case. i'm tired of saying i feel sorry for john boehner, that he's not able to get more discipline within his own caucus. to some degree, i'm pitying john and the role he has to play within that caucus. the reality is that many of them are in favor of shutting down this government. i think it it would be shameful if that were allowed to happen. because, martin, we're talking about putting aside the shutdown

in government. we're talking about the checks that go out to social security recipient won't go out. we're saying we're going to issue ious to our men and women serving overseas to protect our interests in our country. we're saying to veterans, forget about going in for -- >> no, they say they love the troops, they say they're patriots about the military. where is it? where is the patriotism? >> and martin, what they're willing to do is to subject this country to a shutdown. and in essence, what they're saying in reality, we don't care about you. my hope is that we avoid that at all cost. even some within their own party, paul ryan, newt gingrich, the "wall street journal" has counselled them not to hold hostage the affordable care act and shut down the government. in essence, they're going to try to kill one of those hostages. and we say don't kill either of them. let this move forward, pass a continuing resolution, keep government running and keep talking to find solutions to the problem our country is facing. >> congressman joe crowley, thank you, sir, for joining us.

>> thank you, martin. coming up from the washington navy yard to the streets of chicago. this week we're reminded once again we are indeed one nation under the gun. so what next? we'll welcome two passionately divided voices, just ahead. ♪ my customers can shop around. but it doesn't usually work that way with health care. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can make better health decisions. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. [ male announcer ] some things are designed to draw crowds. others are designed to leave them behind. ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. the all-new 2014 lexus is. nascar is ab.out excitement but tracking all the action and hearing everything

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i'm not angry. i'm not yellin'. nobody's tackling anybody! we got absolutely... i don't think this was such a good idea. i'm on it. if we can't secure the quarterback center exchange... you're doing a great job, coach. well they're coming along better than i anticipated. very pleased. who told you to take a break? [ male announcer ] want to win your own football fantasy? just tell us. then use your visa card for a chance to win it. the gun problem in america has been encapsulated in a single week. on monday morning, the country was shocked by the latest mass shooting. a mentally disturbed man with a legally purchased gun, enters a naval facility one mile from the nation's capitol and takes 12 lives, as well as his own, wounding many others along the way. and now the workweek ends with yet another senseless tragedy. this one in chicago. the nation's unofficial capital of gun violence. and this one wounding 13, one of

which was a 3-year-old boy. this comes just three weeks after a particularly violent labor day weekend in chicago, claimed the lives of eight and left more than 20 others injured. are legal guns an issue in this country? yes. are illegal guns an issue? yes. so what then is the common denominator? here to have that debate is larry pratt, executive director of gun owners of america. welcome, sir. and julian epstein. jewelian, if i might begin with you, we hear talk of mental health, video games, violent movies, television. all of these suggested as contributing factors to gun violence. but aren't we really avoiding the one underlying issue, that there are simply too many guns, and they're too easily obtained by those who wish to use them for malicious purposes? >> there really just isn't very much of a debate anymore about whether guns make you safer or

whether guns make us more dangerous. the data are overwhelming. guns make us more dangerous, they don't make us safer. we have 33 gun murders a day. that's the equivalent of a jumbo jet airliner going down every single week. we have the highest gun murder rate in the industrialized world by a factor of 20-fold. in states that have more permissive gun laws, the gun violence rate is double. in homes that have guns, the likelihood that a gun will be used against the gun owner or family member is 22 times higher than it will be used in an act of self defense, according to the kellerman study, which has never been rebutted. a gun inside the home means a woman is eight times more likely to be killed with it in a domestic violence dispute, according to a study done by the american journal of public health. never rebutted. guns did not make us safer in the aurora mass murder situation. did not make people safer at the navy yard, despite the fact that it was an armed embankment with guns. it did not make the folks at ft. hood safer, despite the fact it was also an armed embankment

with guns. the data are just overwhelming. guns make us a lot more dangerous and a violent society. they do not make us a safer society. >> mr. pratt, why do you think america proudly boasts the worst level of gun violence in the industrialized world? >> well, we don't, as a matter of fact. and -- >> we don't? >> no, we don't. actually, violent crime overall is much greater in your home country than it is here. >> i'm talking about -- sorry, sir. forgive me, sir. we're talking about -- we're -- sorry, sir. just to be clear, because i understand the point you're making. what i'm talking about is murder using firearms. >> all right. let's talk about murder in fairfax county. the rate there per 100,000 is 1 per 100,000. over here in washington, d.c., where i am nervously sitting right now, it's 17 1/2 per 100,000, and that's primarily because it's substantially a

gun-free zone. you can't have a gun at the navy yard, because you can't take it out of your dwelling. you can't have one at a military installation anyway, because of since george bush the 1st was in office, he said no guns at any military installation in our country. so among the things we heard in the introduction from my opponent, that was something that was a real whopper. >> yeah, but the thing is, it's so interesting that i give all of this data, the data about how we compare to other countries on gun violence, the data as to how we compare in states with more permissive laws than less permissive laws, the data on how much more likely you are to be killed if you have a gun in your home rather than use as self defense. and larry does the same thing he does every time he comes on television which is he says in these tiny little pockets that have more restrictive gun laws, you may have a higher incidence of gun violence. this is a nonsense argument, this is a weasel argument. it's particularly a weasel argument, because it ignores the fact thatter when a society that is awash in guns, that guns,

even if you have a more restrictive place, guns can be trafficked into that restrictive place. totally ignores the point. couple other statistics. a university of pennsylvania study, never rebutted, if you carry a gun, you're four times more likely to be killed. fact of the matter is, guns are used in a -- guns are used in self defense in about 2% of homicides. 250 a year. >> okay. >> we have 11,000 gun homicides every year. so the fact of the matter is that guns are used in approximate self defense, in a homicide situation, and 2% of these situations. so the aggregate data are overwhelming that guns are making us more dangerous. and larry comes back with this weasel argument. >> mr. pratt -- mr. pratt -- >> many more times in self defense. but we don't -- we don't have to kill people. >> mr. pratt? >> just to show a gun. >> i wonder if i could ask you -- i understand for a man who is very frightened of where you are sitting you seem

relatively confident so allow me to continue. two days after the massacre of children at sandy hook elementary school -- >> do you have any remorse for those that were killed in your gun-free zone? do you have any remorse for the parents and the family? >> mr. pratt? >> the suffering and grief they're going through? i've never heard any of that come from you folks. >> you haven't? oh, really. okay, mr. pratt, i'll refer you to the work on this broadcast in a moment after the broadcast. but can i just continue? you wrote an article after the sandy hook massacre in which you, and i'm quoting you, in addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of congress and the connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in connecticut and most other states. >> indeed. >> so mr. pratt, please allow me to ask you a question. so although -- >> i thought that's what you were doing. >> although the survivors of mass shootings often describe scenes of chaos and confusion, is it your considered opinion that we need more guns and more

shots fired in these situations? >> you know, all but one of the mass murders in our country have occurred in a gun-free zone. >> so i ask you the question again. please answer the question. >> let me answer, would you? i really appreciate that. when an attempted mass murder took off in a mall in clackamust oregon, two people were killed. running to the shots was a man with a concealed firearm, who being seen by the murderer, the murderer put the gun to his head and killed himself. that's what should happen in these schools and other places. where folks like you won't let us protect ourselves of the. >> one moment mr. pratt. so just so i understand your position. are you saying that in an aurora movie situation, in pitch-black darkness, we need more guns. in a place -- in a place like times square, where even trained law enforcement end up being

inaccurate and let other innocent bystanders, we need more guns. so are you saying that people on the basketball court in chicago last night, more of them should have been armed? >> evidently, the murderer in clackamas didn't get the message, but he did get it from the guy that stopped him. when the good guy with the gun got there, it was game over. it's laws that you support that keep that from happening. and all of the mass murders -- wait a minute, i'm giving an answer. that have occurred in the last 20 years in our country have been in the zones you're arguing for. >> you're wrong about that, larry. in the last 56 mass murders, only 13 of them occurred in what we call gun-free zones. 46 -- 43 of them occurred in areas where guns are -- >> you're giving an example of the new math. that's just not correct. >> point one. point two is that there were guns in the ft. hood situation -- >> no, there weren't. the security police had to get there. none of the soldiers had guns.

only the mps who weren't present. >> in ft. hood, there was lots of armed security. >> my goodness, i don't know what world you're living on, but the ft. hood in texas didn't have any guns on the base except for the mps. >> except for the mps. hold on just a second. >> that's not -- no defense. >> hold on, mr. pratt. >> in aurora, the police were there within 16 seconds. the idea that you think that guns make -- that all -- the answer to the gun violence problem is more guns is belied by all the deata. and you didn't respond to any of the points i made about the excessive gun murder rate in this country compared to other countries, the excessive risk increase if you have a gun inside your home. your entire argument is such an intellectually dishonest argument, where you say that there are a couple of examples where you have restrictive laws, and you have high incidences of gun murder rates in those tiny little pockets of areas. and therefore, that must show

the gun laws are not working. and that is a ridiculous argument. >> you'julian epstein and larry pratt of gun owners of america, we must continue this debate. we will. we would love to have you both back. but thank you both for the moment. and, of course, this debate will continue, certainly, throughout the weekend when the nra's wayne lapierre joins david gregory this sunday on "meet the press." coming up, it's a winners and losers edition of top lines. ♪ [ male announcer ] wildlife rescue workers open up a lot of dawn --

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protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. and launch your dreams. i had pain in my abdomen... it just wouldn't go away.thing. i was spotting, but i had already gone through menopause. these symptoms may be nothing... but they could be early warning signs of a gynecologic cancer, such as cervical, ovarian, or uterine cancer. feeling bloated for no reason. that's what i remember. seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge. in a week clouded by gun violence, political posturing and economic uncertainty, it could be easy to overlook a truly inspiring story. nina, a native of new york and inspiring doctor, no less, was crowned miss america earlier this week, a remarkable achievement, enhanced further as

the first indian-american to achieve such an honor. i took a moment myself to congratulate miss america earlier today and explained why a small group of backwards-minded americans will never spoil her accomplishment. we will discuss that misplaced backlash in a special edition of "top lines" just ahead. [ male announcer ] campbell's homestyle. mmm! this is delicious katie. it's not bad for canned soup, right? pfft! [ laughs ] you nearly had us there. canned soup. [ male announcer ] they just might think it's homemade. try campbell's homestyle soup. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... [ man ] hey, brad, want to trade the all-day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve.

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from general custer to general disarray, here are today's "top lines". don't be stupid. >> how stupid is ted cruz? >> are you stupid or something? >> because the stuff he is saying there is wicked-stupid. >> stupid is as stupid does, sir. >> i will do everything necessary and anything possible to defund obamacare.

>> i have a 2 year-old, and sometimes when he's on his scooter, he wants to cross the street, even when the light is red. >> i want to commend house conservatives. >> when republicans run into the street, despite the fact there is a flashing red light -- ♪ against the law ♪ it was against the law >> they're going to get hit by the cars and killed. this is stupid politically. >> are you stupid, or what? >> this is stupid at a policy level. >> shutdowns are bad. shutdowns are not worth it. >> the law is a train wreck. >> this law is not worth causing a shutdown over. >> we have voted to repeal obamacare 30 to 40 times. but this is when it really counts. >> ted cruz went around the country, he got everybody worked up, all the far right folks. >> we as house republicans should stop letting ted cruz set our agenda for us. >> ted cruz and others like him have been writing checks with their mouth that their votes can't cash. >> can't be kamikaze. >> everyone knows custer died at

little big horn. but this presupposes -- >> does everybody remember charlie sheen when he was kind of going crazy last year? >> nice velocity. >> sounded like it. >> jumping around saying "winning, winning, we're winning." >> better teach this kid some control before he kills somebody. >> i kind of feel like that. i think we are winning. and i'm not on any drugs. >> let's get right to our panel now, joining us is msnbc contributor, goldie taylor and my colleague, co host of "the cycle." >> did he completely misunderstand what happened with charlie sheen, we were laughing at him and he was out of his mind? does he completely misunderstand what happened? >> quite possibly. for the audience who don't know much about ted cruz, are you able to explain how he has risen to such magnificent status? >> yes, i am. but you have to come first into the conservative bubble, right? where obama is evil, he's not truly american, he doesn't have

america's best interests at heart. and pretty much everything that government does is evil, and we have to be able to shrink government down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub before everything will be right. once we're into that mind-set and listen to rush limbaugh and watch o'reilly and believe that sort of stuff -- now you can understand. here's somebody who is a true believer, who is leading the fight, right, against obamacare. he is a -- he is fighting until the end. he's not going to wave the white flag. he's not going to give up like other folks. he will fight, bare knuckles, to defund obamacare, no matter what, even if it damages the nation, because it should. because we should stop this train wreck of a law that will ruin america forever. now, partly that could be because obamacare could be a huge success, and that would ruin the republican conservative narrative that big government cannot solve our problems. but put that aside, we must stop this before it's too late, before it becomes part of the fabric of america! >> okay, calm down for five minutes. goldy, senator rand paul of

kentucky insists his party is like charlie sheen, insists they're winning. for people on the outside, they seem to be defeating themselves, don't they? >> you know, they're really no closer to defunding or repealing the affordable care act than they were a year ago. two years ago, really. you know, and so this is really just political theater sorry their constituents back home see they had a vote, they put up a fight against this obamacare kind of bill. you know -- >> but we've already had 41 votes. >> 45 is -- 45 times is the charge. >> this time -- this time they're going to do it! you know. and so no, they don't really have a chance. but, you know, that's not the real problem here. the real problem here is that they're going to shut down government over this. they're going to cost americans 1 million jobs by shutting down this government. and that's a very real issue. and that means something to the 1 million people who provide for their families with that paycheck, those people who eat with that money, who turn their

lights on with that money, who pay their rent and mortgages with that money. and so they're impacting real people's lives with political theater. and that's irresponsible. >> goldy is absolutely right in that where theater is so important in that, what they're doing, what cruz is doing is creating this theater, whereby he gets this media attention, where he seems like the leader against big government, creating fund-raising opportunities for himself and others like mike lee, who are down with him. that theater, even though it's damaging the country, that theater is so valuable for them. if you're in that conservative bubble. >> goldy -- how do you explain -- how do you explain the fact that the self-same people who talk about patriotism, who talk about the greatness of america, are willing to see 38,000 fbi agents furloughed, who are willing to see the very security of the nation undermined, who are willing to see troops, and you

were once a marine, troops like you, not receive pay for serving this nation, and risking your life in places like afghanistan. how is that patriotism? >> you know, it really isn't. this is about dogma. this is about a very rigid ideology oh. this is about taking that flag all the way over the line. this is about their own constituents. this is about re-election. this isn't about serving the country, this isn't about the troops, this isn't about those 1 million people. this is about re-election. >> the secret is that obama care is mandatory spending, not discretionary spending. if you shut down the government, implementation still continues. >> indeed it does. goldly taylor and toray, thank you so much. we'll be back in a moment. so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much as any other brand? neutrogena®. recommended by dermatologists 2 times more

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only duke ellington, alongside the john coal train, playing i'm in a sentimental mood. 50 years ago this week, duke ellington did something extraordinary. something that may have been missed as the nation marked the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. on the 19th of september, 1963, the duke arrived in afghanistan, and was met by will yack brewer. he was there to play a concert in kabul, sponsored by the u.s. state department, against the backdrop of the cold war. it was a form of diplomatic jazz, promoting the good things of america to nations far and wide. tickets were free, and around 5,000 people made their way to a sports stadium to hear one of the finest musicians to ever play the piano. some years later, the duke reflected on that historic performance. this kind of music, he said, was very little-known to them. but they loved the style.

when the trumpets and the sacks phones came out and did their solos, people were awed. not so much by the sound, but by the performance. but 50 years later, we are in awe of a musician who chose to promote a nation which at that point would not even allow him to vote. he chose to serve a country which had abridged his own civil rights and had discriminated against him. he chose to work for good, even if it took him to the other side of the world. as we reflect on that concert 50 years ago this week, we can only conclude that while duke ellington was a great musician, he was also a great man and a great, great servant of this country. thank you so much for watching. coming up now, is "the ed show" with ed schultz.