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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  September 20, 2013 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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something like that. that seats 60,000 people. >> what would cable tv do without "fargo" on friday? probably nothing. joel, good to have you with us tonight. thank you so much. that is "the ed show." "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. rev? >> yes, ed. thank you. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, republicans leap into the abyss. and they're trying to take the country down with them. americans have had enough. and so has the president. today president obama ripped house republicans for their reckless vote to shut down the government. if the health care law isn't defunded, they threatened to shut it down. >> they're not focused on you. they're focused on politics. they're focused on trying to mess with me. they're not focused on you.
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they're not focused on you. i mean, i don't mind them disagreeing with me. they don't like the affordable care act, would rather have people without insurance. i'm happy to have that debate with them. but don't threaten to blow the whole thing up just because you don't get your way. one republican governor called shutting the government down over the affordable care act the dumbest idea he had ever heard. i agree with him. >> yes. it's a dumb idea. and a sick one. more tea party few madness that would take away health care from millions of people. so congratulations, house republicans. you just voted to take away coverage for people with pre-existing conditions. [ booing ] >> congratulations. you just voted to make seniors
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pay millions more for prescription drugs. [ booing ] >> and a special shoutout to you, speaker boehner. it takes genuine political cowardice to let the tea party run this country into the ground. >> thank you. >> republicans are playing a dangerous, demented game. threatening to shut down the government and maybe even send the nation into default. in the name of killing health care law that will save lives. the bill that republicans pass today has no chance of passing the senate. none. zero. but time is running out. the government shuts down in ten days. this isn't a game. it's people's lives. joining me now is congressman jim moran, democrat from
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virginia. and dana milbank of "the washington post." thank you both for being here. >> sure. >> congressman, how do you explain what the house republicans did today? >> well, i think they're assuming that fox news and, you know, rush and his gang are going to explain this. because they live in their own eco-chamber. they are probably assuming, too, that none of their constituents are watching your show or ed's or whatever. and they're hoping they get away with this. i think they know that this is irresponsible, that it's not on the level. they know they can't repeal obama care. they know that they can't default on our debt ceiling. they know where this is headed, but they think they can get away with being irresponsible. so as to appease constituents who is misinformed largely in some cases simply ignorant or
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biased with regard to the president's agenda. and somehow we've got to find a majority of responsible minds in the house and senate to move forward. you know, this is the worst the congress has ever been. and this is a reflection of how bad it can get. just when you think it can't get worse, it does. and it did again today. >> you're right, congressman. and dana, a new poll shows little support for the gop's shutdown strategy. just 27% say they oppose the health law and support republican shutdown efforts. >> yeah. reverend, the only disagreement i would have with what the congressman just said is i think he may be giving the republicans too much credit there to suggest there is some cogent thought going on here. that there is some purpose to all this. because it does seem as if
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nobody's in charge here and they don't really have an end game. they don't really know where they're going with this. there's a dispute among republicans within the house, between republicans in the senate, and in the house contradicting each other. it's not just the shutdown. within weeks after that, they're also threatening to put the united states into default over this and other issues. i don't think it's so much a deliberate plan as is a primal screen. you have a lot of people in that party in safe republican district who is really don't like the president. and this is their way of protesting. >> congressman, we have not only seen the attacks on the president, but dana's right. they're fighting among themselves. we saw new attacks from house republicans who went after a fellow republican in the senate. ted cruz. watch this. >> hopefully it'll be a major step in letting people know that ted cruz is a fraud and he'll no
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longer have any influence in the republican party. i hope people know he's bad for the party. >> you should have been on the floor in the cloak room. there was so much anger and frustration. we've been abused by these guys for so long. i see people calling them out for the hypocrisy of these conservatives who know how to fight but will never get in the ring. >> congressman, this party seems to be in crisis internally. >> it does. and i can't take issue with dana. he's absolutely right. i look forward to reading his next column. when we walk in wednesday in the capitol, we're likely to see a sign that says due to circumstances beyond our control, the light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarily disconnected. i don't think they have any plan. i don't think they know where they're going. and maybe they'll figure it out over the next few days.
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but you're right, reverend al. and we've got this debt ceiling that is certainly as important right now as funding the government. and they don't have a plan for how to do so. >> you know, dana. when you look at what is effected if there is a government shutdown, we're talking about military pay, veterans benefits, unemployment benefits, new home and business loans. these are very serious things. it doesn't even impact the funding of the health care plan or obama care. but they're willing to sacrifice veterans, the unemployed, military personnel. i mean, this is nothing short of crazy. >> well, that's one of the ironies here is in fact they're going to hit all of these government programs. but obama care is going to continue on just as it did before. and in some ways, i think there are some on the left, my
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colleague at the post has made the case this could in fact strengthen obama care in the public eye because people will realize when there are the inevitable hiccups as they implement this, people are going to blame republicans because of all the things they've done to try to slow it from getting implemented in the first place. so again, we can dig and look under each rock and try to find a strategy here, but this isn't really about strategy. this is about protest. and as one congressman at the house republican said, the base has asked for this fight, we're going to give them this fight. >> but congressman, rush limbaugh, now, he's been responding to the fact that people like me have been saying this is the law. congress passed it. there was a huge debate about this in the presidential election. president won. the supreme court upheld it.
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here's how he responded to those of us that raised the point this is the law, we need to move forward. >> i can't wait. >> it's the law of the land, right? well, let's see. what else at one time was the law of the land? slavery. and there was even one time the supreme court upheld it. yeah, slavery used to be the law of the land. >> 30 million people will get health insurance, and he compares this to slavery being the law of the land. as tempted as i am, congressman, i'll let you respond. i won't even touch that one. >> no. i think that's just as well that you not. but you know, you have to wonder why they're getting so extreme, so far out on this. i think it's probably because they're so afraid it's going to work. that's why they're trying to stop it. they're deathly afraid that when it goes in, it's going to show that all of these scare tactics
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and so on, they were for naught. that it was in everyone's benefit. when it does become not just the law of the land but engrained in our culture that everyone is entitled to get decent health care. the children shouldn't suffer because their parents can't get affordable insurance, that they're going to realize this is what america is all about. and it's not what they want america to be all about. so, you know, we just have to get through this period. we had a similar period after medicare. you know, i think ultimately you're going to be proven wrong and rush will come up with another excuse for why he was so wrong. >> i'm out of time, but quickly, do you think congressman, there will be a shutdown or not? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. certainly not until november or december, then we have to fight obviously over the debt ceiling. and we're going to have even lower numbers as of january
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15th. i doubt it will happen as of october 1st. >> congressman jim moran and dana milbank, thank you both for your time tonight. have a great weekend. >> you too, reverend. coming up, we are witnessing something new. political arsonists trying to derail our government. so how will it end? and the tea party rallied around defeating obama care. so now what? i'll talk live to a tea party leader. and you don't want to miss this. plus more on president obama like you rarely see him. on the road and unloading on house republicans. what do you think of all of this? e-mail me. friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. good job!
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have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. this picture was the hit of the day with our facebook fans. taken yesterday during a wounded warrior event at the white house. president obama hand wrote an excuse note for 5-year-old alana who missed school to attend the event with her family. bet that impressed her teacher. kelvin says look at her standing there waiting all patiently. so cute. tina says love this president. anyone else would have had someone else do that. kevin says it's an unforgettable moment for this little girl and her family. you're probably right. want to see the photo for yourself? we posted it to our facebook page. you can find it by heading to facebook and searching "politicsnation."
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the affordable care act has been in the law for three and a half years. it was ruled in as constitutional. the guy who was running against me said he was going to repeal it. we won. >> yes. he did win. but we're watching a group of political extremists trying to up end the system that our country is built on. a party trying to derail our government.
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last night i had had a tea party congressman on my show. i want everyone to watch this. >> what people don't understand, congressman, is how we pass laws the supreme court upholds and you guys come in and say we're not going to fund it and if money comes in we're going to oppose. we thought we lived in a democracy. >> just a reminder, this isn't a democracy. it's a republic. >> this is not a democracy. this a republic. this is a democratically elected republic. for a man to run for office and be elected on the principles of democracy to tell us something, maybe he was really saying something that strikes at the problem of how they see government. joining me now is melissa harris-perry. melissa, i mean, can you believe this? they can't admit this is a
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democracy? >> yes. at this point, you know, if you'd asked me two years ago if you asked me could i believe it? i'd say no, it's shocking. but at this point, yes. it is astounding we are not in a policy debate. not even an ideological discussion anywhere. we're dealing with the existential crisis to the nation about what we want it to be. that will always include disagreement. of course people are going to disagree. of course we're going to have multiple parties and perspectives and viewpoints. but the fact is we have to have some way of making a decision. the way we make a decision is free and fair and regular elections. and then actually governing, not shutting the system down. >> a couple weeks ago at the apollo, i said you were my tutor. i wanted you to come in. because maybe i'm missing something. but have we ever seen this before? i mean, this is almost like a
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political coup. >> we have seen this before. and we saw it in the late 1850s heading up to 1860. the last time we saw this, this level of dysfunction, this level of unwillingness to implement the laws of the land, it led to the civil war. now, i don't think we're on the brink of a civil war. i want to be really clear. but the kind of behavior that we are seeing here where a set of states and individual congress persons have such ideological disagreements with the fundamental laws of the nation that they are willing to literally secede from those laws, not be part of them. yes we've seen it before and it nearly destroyed us. >> and to really question the decisions of government, judicial supreme court, the congress both houses, and the election last year. none of it means nothing to them. >> and only selectively. right? this is what's key. it's not as though they're making a claim that they don't believe anything the supreme court says. for example, on citizens united, the tea party is perfectly happy
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to take that ruling. but the fact that that same supreme court with the similar majority makes the decision around the affordable care act and they're unwilling to abide by it is evidence that this is fundamentally about their unwillingness to submit to the realities of a national government that through free and fair representatives made a law. >> including them. and it's not just the budget. they seem so have a similar strategy when it comes to the debt ceiling. look at this. 35% of republicans believe not raising the debt ceiling would cause serious harm to the economy but want to do it anyway. even if it would cause widespread economic harm. they know it's bad, and they still want to do it. >> yeah. but this is in part the complete campaign of misinformation that the republican party has been
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extremely good at on two major issues. the economy and obama care or the affordable care act. on the debt ceiling, the reason that so many people are willing to basically suggest doing something that's not even in their own interests is because they don't know what the debt ceiling is despite us spending years talking about it now on television, folks still think the debt ceiling is basically like our credit card. so they say just like i wouldn't in bad economic times ask to raise my credit ceiling -- but that's not what this is. exactly. >> now, in this whole fight which we're seeing which really is questioning government. personal dislike for a number of reasons for this president. >> i am still enough of a political scientist to believe when they say congressmen -- you have to go back and ask why is
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it this congress person believes baifing in this way will get them re-elected. part of it may be personal, but the fact is they believe that these actions will be supported by their home districts. and that is because of the 2010 gerrymandering and redistricting. meaning they're running in very narrow districts. >> melissa harris-perry, thanks for your time this evening. be sure to catch her weekends at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. coming up, president obama goes after this republican house. wait until you hear him unload on them today. ♪ nascar is ab.out excitement but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. hp's technology helps us turn millions of tweets,
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republicans, you want a fight? you got it. while the gop was in cracking up in washington today, president obama was on the road letting them have it. >> they're not focused on you. they're focused on politics. they're focused on trying to mess with me. they're not focused on you. they're not focused on you. >> they're not focused on you because if they were, they wouldn't threaten to shut down the government or refuse to pay the bills they racked up. >> the american people have worked too hard for too long digging out of a real crisis just to let politicians in
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washington cause another crisis. this is the united states of america, we're not some banana republic. this isn't a dead beat nation. we don't run out on our tab. >> and the president wasn't done. >> they wake up, maybe pack a lunch for their kids, kiss them good-bye, go to work, live up to the responsibilities, do their jobs, pay their bills. shouldn't you expect the same thing from people in washington? >> just do your job. it isn't complicated. the president's doing his. will republicans do theirs? joining me now are maria teresa kumar. thanks for being here tonight.
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the with president went after republicans today telling them do your job. where's this going? >> the president is right when he said he won the election. it's clear the majority of the country is behind him if not all the way on obama care which is an unfolding process as medicare was. and certainly on this issue of jobs, the debt ceiling, not shutting down the government. that is a really unpopular position the republicans have boxed themselves into now. i think the president has to push this home and make sure everybody understands what is really happening here. you know, the last time they threatened to shut down -- to not pay the debts that the country has to refuse to raise the debt ceiling, the effect on unemployment was very bad for a few months. the mere threat if they went through with this, if they shut the government down and refused to pay the debt, we're going had to have a real effect on economic growth. i think the president and the democrats have to make sure everybody understands where this
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came from. >> i think maria, this is the real problem. just the threat and the ripple effects about having a shutdown has serious consequences to the american public. >> that's the reason why the president is going directly to the american public. he's talking to them saying look we're here doing the job you want. we just need to make sure we're responsible to have job creation, have access to health care, and the republicans are trying to shut down. this is where boehner is having such a hard time. he remembers that the last time that the gop basically tried to shut down government, they lost massively during the midterm elections under clinton. they're being held hostage right now by a small faction of the republican party, the tea party that's doing exactly what they promised they were going to do when they were elected. that is basically make government unfunction that l.
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>> joe, is this personal? you've seen personal attacks on presidents first hand. same thing they're doing today. refusing to negotiate. you covered this closely with the clintons. is this personal? >> i think it's personal. they've ginned up a look of the president as a demonic figure. there are people in the pea party that believe all sorts of crazy things about president obama. i don't think the president has done anything to merit this kind of personal an misfrom them or their base. but they do treat it personally. after awhile the president has to take the hint and say yes they're trying to mess with me which he said today. i think that's right. to say make it clear that what they're doing is not about policy, not about what happened last time. just look at the bar the graph that shows what happened to
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employment and growth the last time they played this game. if they looked at that, they would know not to do this. >> if you look at what joe conason raises, when you look at the political price they paid in the '90s when you have newt gingrich saying don't do this, what happened before. only serious personal analysises would leave them to doing what doesn't politically make sense. >> you're absolutely right. that's one of the things former speaker pelosi said today that they're making this incredibly personal. and that just gives you pause in saying what are they in for? are they in for trying to roll up their sleeves and get the job done for the american people or are they making this so personal every american has to pay their consequences for level of maturity? >> talking about pelosi, joe,
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she said today when questioned about whether or not they could lose the elections, the republicans. she says we can win back the house. i'll know a little bit better in a couple of more months. if republicans force a shutdown, could it help democrats take the house back. >> i think that's one of the only things in the gerrymandered congress that could help the democrats. it's an uphill climb, everyone agrees with that. if people understand what happened here. if people understand their republican congressman or congresswoman put this ideological hatred of the president above the people in nose districts. if they know that, then there are probably 20 districts you have a marginal seat and it could swing the other way.
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>> in less than two weeks, millions of americans who have been locked out of the insurance market are finally going to be able to get quality health care. the american auto industry has come roaring back. when the middle class does better, we all do better. shareholders do better, ceos do better, workers do better. everybody does better. >> saving the auto industry, health care, getting fairer taxes. i mean, these are very real accomplishments, maria. how do the republicans counter this kind of record? >> well, i think this is one of the reasons why the president is going around the country because he in the beginning while he was having these accomplishments had a difficult time claiming them. so the more you get into the local areas and talking about it person to person, they can hear what he's had to say not
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necessarily from the media but from him themselves. and he's going into districts where the republicans are vulnerable. what the republicans need to do is put their head down saying we can't be the obstructionist party. we need to get something done if we want a shot at maintaining the house come 2014. >> the threats of a republican shutdown, they just seem so tone deaf. you know, people are struggling. congressman phil gingrey complaining and i'm quoting him now, i'm stuck here making $172,000 a year. i mean, how does he continue. >> if he's that worried about his income -- >> he's worth $3 million by the way. >> and he's not interested in public service as demonstrated in his career. he can leave. he can go and then come back and
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lobby for whatever set of corporations, whatever they want to sell or buy on the hill including his fellow members. but, you know, this is the district. they're struggling. the median income in that district in georgia is not high. so it's really tone deaf for him to sit around complaining. and by the way, what he was complaining about was he's trying to stop people who work for him on the hill from getting a better deal on health insurance. so even his own staff he doesn't care about. that is really striking. >> but isn't that their undoing, maria, at the end of the day they really are not connected to the struggles and the accompanying fears of the average american while they're talking all of this based on their own rage against the president. >> the fact that this congressman said he couldn't make it on $172,000 a year just basically shows that all
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politics is local and he doesn't get his constituency who's making literally closer to $50,000 a year on average. and that just talks about how disconnected they are to their own local constituency and they're not providing the services and providing the leadership they needed in order to make sure these people are getting jobs, make sure they're getting quality education. and more importantly they're getting out of the rut that most of middle america is in. wall street is roaring doing a fantastic job. but unfortunately the rest of the country hasn't caught up to that. >> joe, how does this play out? you wrote, studied, was up close during the '90s with clinton. how does this play out? what do you predict in terms of a shutdown, in terms of the debt ceiling? >> well, i think in the end the republicans will blink. i think speaker boehner will blink. they've made it clear they don't want to go all the way down this road. but they're captive to a minority certainly in the country that's driving this now. the other factor here is -- the
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other thing that worries republicans is if you ask any economist, they'll tell you the economy is going to be better in 2014. who's going to get the credit for that or who will get the blame if it's not? that's what's really going on here. >> so if the economy's better or worse, the credit or the fault will be -- >> to who? that's the question of the midterms. >> that's what's going to determine the midterms. maria, how do you think it plays out? >> i think that's absolutely right. one of the biggest issues the republican party has right now is they're eating their blueberry pie, to quote you re rend. they have basically claimed with the economic policies that the president was going to put in place four years ago weren't going to work. in fact not only are they working but you have middle america all of a sudden saying i actually see getting my job back, see keeping my home. if all of a sudden they do go toe to toe with the president and there is a government shutdown, that is almost -- we lose that economic gain. then all of a sudden the
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republicans will have to pay a price come the midterms. >> all right. joe conason from the national memo.com and maria teresa kumar, thank you both for your time. remember how the tea party movement was going to move obama? how'd that work out? that's next. (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the
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today's republican vote to defund obama care was a clear sign of that the tea party now dominates the republican party. how did the tea party gain such a big influence within one of the national parties? and what do they hope to gain by shutting down the government? joining me now is amy kremer president of the tea party express. once a flight attendant with delta airlines. she got interested in politics and has been called the most influential person in the tea party movement. amy, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. i'm excited to be here. >> now, the house voted today to stop funding the government unless obama care is defunded. is that a good thing in your mind? >> well, i look at it
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differently. the house voted today to fund the government completely but also to defund obama care to delay obama care because it's not ready for primetime. it's a law that was passed three years ago and it's not ready for primetime. and so why do we want to subject americans to something that is not ready? it's like buying a car -- paying for a car you're going to get in 2015. you're not going to do that. so it's not ready. let's delay it and let's see how we have that discussion, how things play out. and that's what we want to do. and i think that's what many americans want to do. >> but the congress, both houses passed the law. the united states supreme court upheld the law. you had an election last year where the president opponent ran against the law and there were any number of rallies you guys had all over the country. and you lost. it's the law. don't you believe when a law is made and when you lose
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elections, lose supreme court cases, that you have to thereby go by the decisions that you subjected yourself to? that if you had won, the other side would have had to subject themselves to? >> well, you know what? je, it is the law, but that doesn't mean it can't be overturned. and let me make a statement here. >> you're not overturning here. you're defunding. you're not overturning. >> wait, wait, wait. no, but the thing is everybody's saying it's the law. laws are overturned all the time. i'm not saying we're trying to overturn it all the time. >> you went to the supreme court to overturn it and lost. >> let me finish. let me finish. i didn't go to the supreme court, but you have a bill that was passed today in the house with bipartisan support. bipartisan support. democrats and republicans voted for that bill today and it passed overwhelmingly. obama care, when it was passed into law three years ago, it did not have one republican vote. furthermore, it didn't -- they didn't pass it through the
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normal process. they had to use a parliamentary trick to get it passed. so in -- since august of 2009, abc has done 16 polls and not one time has obama care been above 50%. >> amy -- >> the american people don't want this -- >> amy, they went to the supreme court and the supreme court did not find -- wait a minute. they did not find any trick. they said it was constitutional. they went to the american public. and the republican candidate ran on all of that, and he was defeated. and defeated by a large margin. you can't defund it -- >> i'm not going to -- >> just a second. i let you finish. you can't defund it without the senate voting. you only had two democrats vote today with the house that if you call that bipartisan, i call it two democrats. but -- >> it was still democrats.
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>> republican congressman tom cole said the futility of trying to get rid of the health care law, it's awfully hard to repeal obama care when a guy named obama is the president of the united states. senator ted cruz, he says that even he doesn't believe they can pass the senate. harry reid will no doubt try to strip the defund language from the continuing resolution, and right now he's likely to have the votes to do so. so are they wrong? do you see some path to victory that fellow republicans don't see? >> actually, what i see is that if the american people rise up enough and put enough pressure on them and if they true -- these senators truly represent the people in nar states, yes, yes it can be defunded. a month ago no one thought the leadership in the house would bring it to the floor. and i praised the leadership in the house for listening to the american people and standing up and bringing it to the floor.
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but i want to say something here. everybody is -- >> wait, wait. let me ask you something on that. you said if they listen to their constituents. the majority of the u.s. senate is democratic and they were elected by their constituents in their state. can you tell me one democrat that you think will vote with you on this in the senate? just name one. >> well, i can tell you that several that should be voting with us and that's mark -- >> no that will vote for it. >> there are several that should be voting. they're in red states. they're conservative states. and their people, i've been in those states and they don't want obama care. mark begich, kay hagen, there are a number of them -- >> do you have any indication that any of them will vote with you on this? >> i haven't talked to any of them. i haven't heard from any of them, but i know that now the fight goes to the senate. and i'm sure there's going to be
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a volley back and forth. we're happy to have that discussion. we had no input when this law was even crafted. it was crafted behind closed doors and shoved down our throats. that's not the way this democracy, this republic is supposed to work. these people in washington work for all of us. the most important thing people should be concerned about, the president says we don't care about the middle class? there's nothing further from the truth. he's concerned about special interests and then his magical powers, he exempts congress. well, it's what's good for thee but not for me? why is it the middle class average americans are going to be the one to pay for this. >> they're going to pay for it in the shutdown. you're exactly right. >> i never heard anybody advocate for a shutdown. >> military people will pay for it. let me ask you something. >> no. >> you were quoted as saying i just don't believe he loves america the way we do. what do you mean by that and who
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is "we" in the "we do"? >> i mean, look. i'm not going to go back and debate this with you. >> we're not debating. i asked you a question about a quote of yours. >> -- and i just said the president said that he fundamentally wants to change america. what i'm here to discuss is -- >> that doesn't mean he doesn't love america. >> well, you know what? i don't know. maybe he does. maybe he doesn't. but what is important is that he represents the american people not just democrats, but republicans too. and all of these members in washington, they are elected officials. they work for us. and they should not exempt themselves from this. if we're going to have to, you know, go through this, they should as well. but i think we need to have a conversation about this. i don't see what the problem is with delaying it for a year. it's not ready for primetime. what's the problem for delaying it for a year -- >> if the senate does not vote along with this, that is the majority of the u.s. senate
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which is required in order to defund it. then why would you then say we should shut the governmentdown if you believe that's how the vote goes. >> i have never said to shut down the government. >> i'll ask it another way. then if the senate does not go along -- if the senate does not vote to take the funds or delay obama care, do you then support that we should therefore go forward and fund obama care and everything else that's on the budget? >> well, i mean, we're going to have to see what they bring to the table. like i said, i'm sure it's going to go back and forth. but i've never advocated -- but wait. i've never advocated for a government shutdown. at least now the discussion has started. no one's talking about the fact that weeks -- months ago before this debate even started that the president and harry reid were talking about shutting down the government if the sequester
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was not rolled back. we have compromised. we sent a bill that totally funds the government and actually continues the president's deficit spending but we want to delay to fund obama care until 2015. >> i'm going to try one more time. if the senate votes that they will not support what was just passed in the house, are you saying therefore since you lost the vote and since they work for the american people and they voted based on as you say democratic republic, therefore you lost the vote and therefo they should go forward and pay the government's bills including the affordable care act? >> what i am saying is that we have started this discussion. i do not advocate for shutting the government down. >> so we should pay it. if you lose the vote, you are not for shutting it down. >> further more, let me say this. furthermore, the house of representatives is our most
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direct form of representation in washington. that's why the -- >> oh. so the senate doesn't -- so the senate vote therefore would not be direct if it goes against you? >> no, the house controls the pursestrings. that's why this bill has originated in the house. it's the law. >> but according to the law and this way this country runs, you have to have the senate and the house, amy. thanks for coming on. i've got to go. thank you. we'll be right back. >> the question is why does harry reid and president obama -- with more technology, to get you into, and out of, tight spots. and more space so that you always have your favorite stuff. and just for good measure, an incredibly efficient 40 mpg highway. so that when you're doing more, you're spending less. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more. ♪
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finally tonight, the horrific shooting last night in chicago. 13 people were shot in what police say was a gang-related incident at a basketball court on the south side. the victims included ten adults, two teenagers, and a 3-year-old boy. that child denote howard was the most seriously injured. suffering a gun shot wound to the head. his relatives were devastated. >> i guess they say he's going to be okay. he's doing better. that's my man with this master plan. that's what grandma gave him. strong man. three years old, strong survivor. but it need to stop. it need to stop. >> it needs to stop.

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