. diving into trouble. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this. deadbeat. a person who tries to evade paying debts. that's the webster's new world college dictionary definition. the question before the u.s. congress is whether america itself decides to be a deadbeat country. does the united states of america wish to state now on the record it will no longer accept responsibility for paying the military salaries of the service

people? will not pay for the fighter planes we buy, the cost of housing and treating disabled veterans. will we let the word go fort that this country will not pay bills to which it is legally bound. is the wealthiest land in the world ready to turn itself into a deadbeat. worse yet, get branded as such on world markets. a republican from indiana, and a pennsylvania democrat. i'd like to hear first of all let's go to republicans in the house led by speaker john boehner. they put on a show after passing a continuing resolution killing obama care in its crib. it's a bill that has zero chance of becoming law and every chance of shutting down the u.s. government. >> the american people don't want the government shut down and they don't want obama care. the house has listened to the american people. now it's time for the united states senate to listen to them

as well. thank you. there's also high drama on the house floor as democrats pleaded with republicans to abandon their kamikaze mission to dee fund the affordable care act. >> what is brought to the floor today is without a doubt, without a doubt a measure designed to shut down government. it could have no other intent. its purpose is clear. >> it is a blatant act of hostage taking. the republican c.r. also lays the groundwork for default on our debt, an unthinkable act. >> hours later, president obama himself delivered a fiery campai campaign-style speech taking aim at those in congress. >> we failed to increase the debt limit, we would send our economy into a tailspin.

that's a quote by the way, what i just said. you know who said it? the republican speaker of the house john boehner. you don't have to threaten to blow it up because you don't get your way. if washington works in the same way that you and americans all across the country do every single day, the economy will be stronger, not just a year from now or five years from now or ten years from now, but 20 and 30 and 50 years from now and as long as i have the privilege of serving you as your president, that's what i'm going to be focused on. >> you heard the president mention in that clip, this mess falls squarely they say on the shoulders of house speaker john boehner. he managed to pass a continuing resolution. the senate is going to send it back to him next week without the kill obama care language it has now. if ted cruz the senator from texas holds good on his promise to do anything necessary and possible to defund obama care, he could drag out the congress until the 29th of september

leaving speaker boehner a day before government shutdown. congressman, let me ask you about this word deadbeat. do you accept my definition of deadbeat, someone who won't pay your bills? >> chris, are you talking to me? >> congressman messer. >> i think it's important that you pay your bills. what i reject is just the premise of the last two minutes, chris. listen, we passed a bill today that will fund government and would protect the american people from obama care. the people that are talking about shutting down president are you, the president and nancy pelosi. >> let's get the press in here. the government has to pay its bills. you have a continuing resolution because you haven't passed the appropriations because among other reasons, ted cruz insisted that the two budget committees never meet in conference this year. there never was a chance to pass bills or resolutions. that's a fact on the record, sir. that's not an argument. my question is list all the programs you've seen -- that

you've tried to kill on a continuing resolution on budget deadline. the end of the year deadline. give me the other ones besides obama care congress has ever tried to kill using the continuing resolution. just list them for me. >> listen, the -- owe. >> no. listen to me. what time in the history of this country has the congress tried to kill a bill signed passed by the congress and both houses. legally signed into law by the president, then killed by a continuing resolution. you act like this is the normal thing. to hold hostages. >> i mean, chris, you have a president who will negotiate with vladimir putin but won't negotiate with the house republican congress. >> you can give the speeches. i can only ask a question. >> we have both the cr and the continuing resolution to solve here. you know that many of the provisions of obama care are not popular even among democrats. lcio came out against this yesterday. the president's support on this bill is crumbling.

that's why we see this vitt reol on the left. >> is the affordable care act a law of the land? >> what is the law of the land -- >> is it a law of the land? >> it was ork straptchestrated implemented. the start is in a few days and it becomes effective in january. >> your position is the united states cannot pay its bills after october 1st unless you kill the affordable care act. that's yodeal. >> my position is to fund government and protect people from obama care. we can do that if the president comes to the table. >> let's go to congressman fatah of philadelphia. congressman, i think the congressman in his own way said the deal is, unless you can kill obama care as it's called now, there will be no goflt after october 1st. that's the deal.

>> two things that we need to make clear. one is the president of the united states, barack obama, has never spent one dollar or added one dollar to the debt that the congress did not direct that he spend through an appropriation bill. so the question now is, are we gointo pay your bills. this is debt authorized by the congress we need to pay and we need to do it before we run up to our credit limit. tworks you don't pass anything in our government. you learn this in high school and middle school if you go to a good one, you have to pass something out of the house and the senate and the president has to sign it for it to be law. republicans have killed obama care 40-plus times. it's not dead, which is why there are going through this last bit of activity here. because on october 1, americans are going to learn something. in many cases for less than $100 a month, you can get a quality health insurance program with a private company that will protect you and your family and

the republicans, as they fought against social security and medicare, as they seem to be against things that would help the public, tax cuts for the rich. they're going through this, but the president is not going to equivocate one inch. not going to compromise one iota and we'll have the fight if we need to have it. how much do we need to hurt our own economy for the republicans to learn that they lost the last presidential election. >> thanks for coming on the show by the way. this is going to be heated argument not just here. let me ask about next week. the senate is expected because it's a democrat led senate. it's not going to include elimination of obama care in the resolution. that will come back to the house of representatives sometime next week. hopefully in time for the leadership to do something for speaker boehner. what do you want speaker boehner to do if he's confronted with the fact that the senate did not go along with the house? >> it's hard to deal with the hypotheticals of what could happen next week, chris. we want to keep government open

and our goal is rid the american people of obama care. it gives us multiple opportunities to bring this policy forward. the president has already signed seven bills that changed obama care. he's delayed the employer mandate. >> i'm trying to get -- >> it can be delayed. >> let me ask you your bargaining position. speak speaker boehner alluded to the fact he won't hold hostage. we'll put together cuts object throw in keystone pipeline or a couple of other things that the republicans would like to see done as resolution. fair enough, by the way. this time around, you take another shot at it during the fight over the debt ceiling in a couple of weeks. but this time around get spending cuts and perhaps president keystone. would you go along with a deal like that? >> yeah, potentially. but it requires the president to

come to the table and agree. >> i understand. are you at the table? are you waiting at the table? >> sure. we have big issues as a country. we have a failing economy. we have a budget out of control and we have chal inlenges with obama care. >> it's not all take it or leave it about killing obama care? >> i believe that's the right policy. we have two opportunities to do it. i think frankly that the president, when the american people make it clear over the next several weeks, he will step forward and at least delay this law. listen, this president is known for drawing lines he doesn't keep. i think there's a potential he won't keep this one. >> do you ever gamble privately? >> i really don't -- i really don't like gambling. >> at the frack or anything. i'm available if you want to call me afterwards. i'm ready. the president won't give up on anything. what do you think of the odds if you want to give bookie advice to somebody here. what are the odds that the president of the united states will give up on the one sure thing that will get him in the

history books, affordable health to people waiting in the emergency room right now. >> there's not a person in the country except for bheem are drinking this tea party tea who believes the president is going to walk away from obama care. it's not going to happen. >> thank you for coming on late in the friday afternoon. congressman luke messer and chuck fatah of pennsylvania. at the time cruz may well be the gift that keeps on giving for liberals, progressives. he's ig nignited a civil war -- can't do for them. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories. [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective... so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much

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welcome back to "hardball" where the frustration and anger against ted cruz by many republicans today continued. cruz spent the last few months, of course, pushing republicans

to use the threat of a government shutdown as leverage to defund the affordable care act. on the eve of house republicans doing that, cruz essentially admitted there was very little hope in the u.s. senate to pass a defunding bill. instead, he tossed the hot potato to the house saying it was up to house republicans, republicans in the house that surprisingly weren't happy with that. here's representative peter king today calling cruz a fraud. strong word. let watch. >> we have to do. it's a step in the right direction and hopefully a major step in letting people know that ted cruz is a fraud and no longer have any influence in the republican party. these voters definitely a signal to make more realistic and practical approaches, we can't be going off on these false missions. the issues are too important, too serious. they require conservative solutions, not headline hunting schemes. >> u.s. congressman blake farn

thald is a congressman from texas. i've never seen anybody in the street in front of the cameras calling another member much their caucus a fraud, going to lose influence with the party. pretty strong stuff from some republicans in the northeast and the midwest. is this a texas thing, cruz, that he's that far out? how is your view of where he fits in the party? >> listen, they'd better not mess with texas. nobody thought ted cruz could win against david dewhurst who is so far ahead early on, thought to be unbeatable. cruz pulled it off in one election to the u.s. senate. ted asked for the opportunity to take this up in the senate. we gave it to him. i wouldn't be surprised if he delivers. i certainly hope he does. >> let's get the reality here. i know you like him, you're a loyal texan from the lonestar state. is it the lonestar state on this one? it takes 41 votes in the senate to basically stop a measure from getting to a vote. does he have 41 votes do that,

not just for obama care ee limb nation, whatever that's about, but to stop this continuing resolution from financing the government? can he do that? >> listen, we picked up two democrat votes in the house of representatives today. we can hope ted can get a few over in the senate. listen, the american public has turned on obama care and we've got senators up for reelection on the democrat side who would be well to listen to their constituents in the american people. >> so why do you think so many republicans up in the northeast midwest are calling him no good. these are personal statements by people like peter king. what's it about? sniemtd a couple might be running against him for president too. >> the president, is he ultimately running for president. i've said he is. do you agree? >> i wouldn't be surprised. >> stick to the point, congressman. i said i believe he's eligible. he had an american mother. i believe you're a natural born citizen. do you agree with that? >> we've had this discussion about president obama. so i -- >> i'm talking about cruz.

stick to the point, congressman. cruz. >> he's as eligible as obama is. >> what does that mean? >> obama is president, ted cruz can be president. >> what do you mean? explain terms. this is serious business, congressman. you're chuckling about this. >> absolutely. >> is he eligible to be president or not. you're touting the guy saying he can run for president. is he eligible? you brought it up, i didn't. >> i'm gichg you a yes answer. >> even with that crazy theory of donald trump is true, he'd still be he will jbl by that standard. >> we're talking about ted cruz. obama -- >> can't you project an inch mentally? just an inch. >> i'm telling you that president obama is the president. if he's eligible to be president, then cruz is. >> you brought this up. >> what better answer that i can give you than yes. >> was he legitimate like the president? >> that was determined before i got here. >> when does congress get to

determine whether the president meets the standards of being a natural born citizen. it's going to be a vote in congress between now and 2016 when -- >> when the congress accepts the electoral votes. that's when it would have been timely to raise. >> what would you have done? >> listen -- >> why are you afraid of this? >> i'm not afraid of it at all. >> is he a natural born citizen? >> i have said ted cruz is as eligible to be president as -- >> this is the problem with your party. it's so far in the wacko bird. what's wrong with saying barack obama is a natural born citizen and eligible for president. >> i'm saying president obama is president. what else is there to say than that? we're nitpicking over words here. >> you were playing a game, once again, of trying to somehow make him not quite the president. he got into the office, you're admitting that. but he doesn't it legitimatelyh did he?

just say he did. >> he's president. he's president. >> what more is there to say? >> can you repeat after me. he was edlegitimately elected president. >> president obama was elected president. >> the people elected him. >> he's a natural born citizen. >> i didn't make that judgment when he was brought in. >> everybody watching knows what you're doing. you're dodge balling. let me ask you about the united states government. what's your view about the continued resolution, funding the government beyond october 1st. do you want that to happen or not? >> absolutely. we voted to fund everything but obama care. of course we want to keep funding the government. >> the law of the land. >> and we're -- congress, gets who gets to change the law of the land. congress. >> you're not changing it. you're simply defunding it. >> no. we're changing the law that grants the money to obama care. >> okay. let me ask you the same question i put to the others. >> the constitution gave us the power of the purse. we're exercising it.

>> that's right. the congress passed by 218 votes obama care. it was also passed by the senate with 60 votes. it was a filibuster proof. it's the law of the land. my question to you is, list the other laws that congress has vitiated using the continuing resolution or the debt -- what other laws or programs has congress killed in the way you're trying to kill obama care. list one other case in history you've done it. just once. >> again, we can do it. we have the power of the purse. just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. i think the constitution is pretty clear that the house of representatives gets to decide where the money is spent. we send the bill to the senate. it comes back. >> congressman, you're saying that. it's true by definition. the question is, don't come back and then say this is a fight you didn't start. don't say the president started this fight by insisting on obama care being funded e didn't start the fight. ted cruz and others started it. why don't we use the cr -- >> i'm against obama care. i want it to go away. >> blake fair an thold of texas.

it was the heated discussion which is going on in congress. i haven't called anybody a fraud by the way. up next, your chance to play "hardball." i'll answer your twitter questions. i don't like that word twitter. it's serious questions. but this is "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." it's time for your special segment. let's play "hardball" where you the audience get to turn the tables on me and ask me anything on twitter. let's get started with a question from tim rogers of texarkana. a real texan again. he asks, so are we doomed to this gridlock forever because the gerrymandering in the states? here's the problem sir. a lot of minorities and liberals live in big city. in places like philadelphia or san francisco. 90% votes. a lot of votes of liberals don't count as much as they should it's the way the geography works. tack on the gerrymandering.

my state in pennsylvania where i grew up, 100,000 more votes were cast for democratic candidates for congress statewide than for republicans. how many republican congress people are there, 13. how many democrats, 5. even though the democrats got an overall total much higher than the republicans in terms of total votes as they were distributed cd a cd. the republicans come out ahead. that's gerrymandering. the next question from kenneth hopes. a veteran from she tech, wisconsin. he asks, "what political benefit is there for the gop to shut down the government and deny health care and stop feeding the poor?" i think they're playing to their base. about 20% in the country who are really, really angry at obama. they don't like him, hate him. they hate big government. they hate gun control, hate it all. they're in a really upset, angry mood. they are patriotic people, but they are really angry. i think this games manship and

brinkmannship is playing to them. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. up next, your business with jj ram berg. eed a new recipe. hmmm. let us consult the scroll of infinite deliciousness. ♪ oh! perfect. [ wisest kid ] campbell's has the recipes kids love. like easy chicken and cheese enchiladas. so good! can i keep this? you already have it at campbellskitchen.com. nice. [ blows ] [ gong ] m'm! m'm! good!