you're doing a great job, coach. well they're cominong bett than i anticipated. very pleased. who told you to take a break? [ male announcer ] want to win your own football fantasy? just tell us. then use your visa card for a chance to win it. thanks for disrupting your saturday afternoon. i'm karen finney. yes, speaker, senator cruz double dog dared you. he wants you to do it again but don't blink. ♪ >> less than two weeks -- millions of americans who have been locked out of the insurance market are finally going to be able to get quality health care. ♪ >> i want to commend house conservatives. >> how stupid is ted cruz?

>> i commend to speaker boehner. >> the american people don't want the government shut down and they don't want obama care. >> obama care is coming, folks! run for your lives. >> they're focused on trying to mess with me. >> don't run for your lives. that will make you healthier and that's what he wants. >> do your job. >> you know the republicans will be blamed for the shutdown. >> we are winning right now. >> extortion. >> extort. >>er extortion and blackmail. >> a cam ka zee mission. >> i will do anything necessary and anything possible. >> stuff he's saying there is wicked stupid. ♪ >> it seemed over the summer like a harebrain hair has now become a full-blown crisis on

capitol hill. spurred on by the gop's right wing, the house passed a continuing resolution to fund the government that defunds obama care. now, the bill moves on to the senate where the democrats are expected to remove the defunding provision and take health care away from tens of millions of americans and then right back to the house and we're exactly where we started. it's like a legislative groundhog day and the only way out is if john boehner convinces the caucus not to hold the government hostage to their one and only issue or finally gives up on the republican right flank and enlists nancy pelosi's help yet again to forge a bipartisan majority. boehner's got a week and change to do it before the federal government run out of money. and lest he forget it's his job, there's a constitutional lawyer in the white house to remind him. >> the most basic constitutional duty congress has is to pass a

budget. that's congress 101. if they don't pass a budget by september 30th, what's the date today? the 20th. all right. so if congress doesn't pass a budget in ten days, a week from monday, the government will shut down. the american people have worked too hard for too long digging out of a real crisis just to let politicians in washington cause another crisis. >> white house correspondent christin welker. we are told that the president actually talked to john boehner last night. what can you tell us about that call? >> reporter: that is right. president obama placed a call to house speaker boehner. not a lot accomplished in terms of moving the legislative fights forward, but president obama reiterated his stance that he's not going to negotiate over the debt limit. of course, that is the second of two fiscal fight that is are going on right now. president obama has long said

he's not going to negotiate over the debt limit ever since the debacle back in 2011. house speaker john boehner, republicans said they want any increase in the debt limit offset with an equal amount of cuts. they're also proposing a possible extension of president obama's health care law. of course, that's not something that the president is going to sign off on. so that is one legislative fight that's happening right now. the debt limit by the way, the nation will reach the debt limit in mid-october. the more imminent fiscal battle is the continuing resolution. what you just talked about, karen. of course, we are getting get cr and closer to a government shut do shutdown after the house voted for that bill on friday. it is dividing the republican party right now so incredibly politically perilous for them. democrats believe they have the upper hand. and as you point out, there's just no chance that's going to pass through the senate. the real problem is that

economists say these two-pronged battles, the budget and the debt ceiling, if congress doesn't figure out a way to solve the issues, it could have an overall impact on the larger economy. so that's the real concern and we are just nine days out from the government running out of funding. karen? >> well, maybe it is a positive step unlike in 2011 boehner took the president's call this time. i'm going to hope that's a positive sign. before i let you go, i want to switch gears here. we have a bit of breaking news. we understand that the white house is monitoring the events in kenya. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: right. we know that president obama has been updated on the situation in kenya. the state department releasing a statement condemning the violence in the strongest terms saying that they are in contact with local officials on the scene there nairobi and told state department that there are as many as ten attackers who waged that attack in nairobi. more than 20 people have been killed. as many as 50 people have been

injured, karen. the state department believes that some of those are americans and trying to confirm that and the identities of the people involved. we also know that the al qaeda linked group based out of somalia has tweeted essentially taking responsibility for this attack saying that it is in retaliation for kenyan military activity in somalia but we want to be clear that the state department has not confirmed that. they do, however, believe that this attack shows all of the signs of a terrorist incident so they continue to monitor the evolving and devastating situation out of kenya. karen? >> thanks so much, kristen. >> thank you. now the events in congress and joined by congresswoman barbara lee, democrat of california and luke messer, republican of indiana. i want to start with you, congressman messer, because essentially we're seeing from the house to the senate and we expect it comes right back to

the house, and we believe that the version that comes back to the house will not be obama care piece in it that you wanted, so what happens from there? >> well, listen. i think there's two things that you said in the introduction there that i would take a little bit of issue with. one is that the republican party is divided. we had over 230 votes for the resolution yesterday and 2 democrat votes. and secondly, we are not trying to shut down government. i mean, there is a third way here and that is for the president to compromise on his health care law. he's already signed seven bills that change obama care. he's delayed the employer mandate in recent months and reports that the exchanges aren't ready and if the president comes to the table, there's an opportunity to get this done. >> congressman, i feel like i actually think on the house side you're very much -- you're very much all on the same page. i think that where there does seem to be some discord is house and senate. i have seen some of your

colleagues. i have some sound from representative duffy on michael jackson who says he's not so happy with ted cruz and feeling like a punching bag. >> well, i think -- >> all summer long as the ads have been running, holding town halls and raising money, we have kept a lid on our anger in the house. as we were the punching bag and bullied by some of the senate conservatives. >> so, you know, i mean, that's where i think there's clearly discord between the house and the senate and seems like we're playing ping-pong here. >> well, i think the senate will now have their opportunity to lead. certainly, senator cruz and others asked for that opportunity. and then we'll are to respond in the coming days to what comes back from the senate. >> congresswoman lee, i mean, in effect, though, i take the point of congressman messer and disagree in effect by sending something over to the senate we know is not going to come back to the house in the same way, i mean, in effect, this is leading

to a showdown about shutting down the government and if not that perhaps this fight getting to the debt ceiling. but the thing that strikes me the most is we're talk about republicans wanting to repeal obama care which is actually already working. i have some statistics here. just looking at children covered, i mean, you have children 81.7% of children are covered in 2008. 87.2% in 2011. so essentially, what we are talking about when we talk about repealing obama care is taking that away from those children. >> you know, first of all, the affordable care act is the law of the land and the supreme court has upheld its constitutionality. what the republicans are doing really quite frankly holding the affordable care act ie holding the american people who need health care, hostage. we have also in addition to the children with preexisting

conditions who now have access to health care, over 3 million young people can stay on their parent's insurance plans until they're 26. we have over 105 million americans now who do not face lifetime benefits. we have people who really come october 1 will be able to enroll in affordable, accessible health care and so, karen, this is really a hostage taking effort of the republican extremists. this is what they have done over and orr and over again. they'll not pass legislation to create jobs. all they continue to do is to try to really unravel the affordable care act and once again hurt the majority of the american people who desperately need health insurance. >> on that point, congressman messer, we have numbers specifically looking at people in your district and there. you have 41,000 children in indiana 6th district with preexisting health conditions that can no longer be denied

coverage. 231,000 individuals have insurance and a lifetime limit on the coverage is no longer a problem. what do you say to those people in your district when you're talking about taking that away from them? >> well, listen. there's two provisions in the law. you guys focused on the two most popular. it's the preexisting conditions language and also the fact that young people can stay on their parent's health care plans until they're 26. those are both two good changes and i've supported legislation that would take a very similar approach to dealing with preexisting conditions. but there's also a lot of unmet promises with obama care. folks promised that rates would go down. they have gone up. >> that's not true, sir. at this point it appears -- >> depends on where you are in the country. >> it does and most of the studies suggest that costs will actually go down and i guess my question to you is, why not

spend the time working with democrats to make -- to improve the bill? we knew like with social security, there would need to be improvements made to the bill. why not do that instead of, again, taking this care away from people in your own district? >> well, listen. again, there have been a lot of unmet promises and in indiana rates are going up. you talk to people losing hours on their job. they're losing their job because of obama care, as well. and there's outrage where i live and folks that want us to stand up against this law. now, i'll tell you. i supported repealing obama care and defunding and delaying obama care. the president did that in major ways already and supported common sense fixes, as well. i supported moving from a 30-hour to a 40-hour full-time equivalent so people don't lose their job or lose hours on the job. i'm willing to do whatever we can to protect people from the failings in this law. >> congresswoman lee, i want to

switch gears and a question to you. one of the other crowning achievements we saw this week with the gop was the vote about snap. taking away snap provisions for children. the argument that we have heard time and again is waste, fraud and abuse. and yet, we're talking about $40 million which is going to have a massive impact on very -- on families. yet, if we're looking for places where there are waste, fraud and abuse, how about iraq and afghanistan? or how about canceled weapons programs? what is the obsession with focusing on taking away these programs that we know are effective and actually helping people get out of poverty rather than saying, hey, let's look for waste, fraud and abuse in other places? >> karen, there's a systematic assault on the most vulnerable in our country. there's a systematic attack on the poor and the working poor. when you lock at the fact that the snap program really is a safety net, first of all, people

still have not found jobs. we have not created enough jobs. the economy is slowly recovering. it's mean spirited to say to people that they're not eligible to eat. i mean, come on. we have here in our own country, values say we're going to protect and support the least of these. it's a very mean spirited approach. it's going to take approximately 26 meals off of the table for a family of 4. this terrible cut could in my own state affect 346,000 people. it is wrong. i personally have been on food stamps, unfortunately, during a period of my life when i needed help. majority of people want to work and like myself they want to have a decent job so they can take care of their kids and live the american dream. snap helps people do that and so this was very mean and as i said on the floor, many people on the other side who voted for this,

they -- there are people of faith and go to church on sunday and they plray and on thursday they moved to take food from the hungry people. >> thank you, congress wam barbara lee and congressman luke messer. next, is it the republican party or the tea party? whatever it is, it's got even bill o'reilly mad. that's coming up. >> what you're trying to do, the tea party is trying to do, is impossible. so do you not know that? the senate is not going to go along. even if the house were to vote to defund obama care which it will not. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function.

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and while we have victory today for the american people, frankly, we also had a victory for common sense. our message to the united states senate is real simple. the american people don't want the government shutdown and they don't want obama care. >> well, that was speaker john boehner celebrating yesterday as he dumped the defund obama care push our economy over a cliff football right in to ted cruz's lap. just where you think cruz would want it, especially after the summer fund raising to stand up and win the argument and not to blink when it comes to defunding obama care. well, now it's his time to stand up. the only dilemma is reality. the reality that the darling of

the tea party can't deliver and every republican living in the real world is about to blink. joining me to talk about the republican efforts to defund the affordable care act is chair of the tea party express aim cramer, an opinion writer for "the washington post" jonathan capehart. thank you both for joining me. >> thank you, karen. >> thanks for having me. >> amy, i want to start with you. i think the concern i think a lot of us have is, you know, when we talk about the accomplishments of obama care, the people who are already covered, talking about taking something away from people and shutting the government down to make that point, i mean, is that really a good strategy for your politics? >> karen, we're not talking about shutting the government down. you and the democrats are talking about shutting the government down. and we want people to have access to health care. there are free market solutions. as a matter of fact, the republican study committee just came out with a plan this week to replace obama care. it's -- we passed a cr to fund

the government and to allow the president to continue his deficit spending. we just want to delay and defund obama care for a year. >> a couple things to remind you of. the dpafact we're having a continuing resolution because the house won't talk -- >> of course. >> but i do disagree with you in terms of the conversation about shutting down the government. i have something i want to play and then talk about it on the other side. >> there are a great many republicans who are haunted by the ghost of shutdowns past. it is received wisdom in washington that the 1995 government shutdown was a terrible loss for republicans and we should never go there again. i don't believe the evidence supports that conclusion. >> i would rather shut the government down and not advocating for that but rather shut the golt dovernment down t

america. >> i mean, so, amy, how can you say that the conservatives, republicans, aren't talking about shutting down the government and just two members republican members talking about exactly doing that? >> well, i'm sure that they were answering questions about it. i have never heard anybody advocate to go out and shut the government down. we passed a cr that is going to fund the government. if the government is shut down, it's because harry reid and president obama want to shut the government down. no one's talking about the fact that months ago president obama and harry reid both said they would shut down the government if we didn't roll back the sequester. my guess is if we're not having this conversation about defunding obama care, we would be having a conversation about shutting the government down because they want to roll back the cuts of the sequester. >> again, i would remind you part of the reason we're in this problem, cantor walked away from a deal. boehner walked away from a deal.

>> the reality is -- that's the reality -- >> that's the reality. >> no, the reality is -- >> we're fighting over shutting the government down over a continuing resolution and frankly this not good for our economy in and of itself. >> the united states senate under reid's leadership didn't pass a budget for four years. >> and now they passed one and the house won't meet with them. but now they have -- >> let's talk about the 40-plus democrats that voted with the republicans to delay the individual and employee mandate for a year and getting the senate what does harry reid do? tables it. if he would bring it to the floor for a debate and a vote, we might not be having this conversation about denunding the obama care. >> i want to get jonathan in here. actually, the senate did pass a budget and waiting for the house to agree to a conference committee to sit down and hash this down. >> first time in four years. >> you have been writing about various exhibits in gop lunacy as you -- >> i might go through the

alphabet. >> as you have been talking about it and one comment stood out to me. ted yoho speaking to "the new york times" said, quote, it only takes one with passion. look at rosa parks, martin luther king, people with passion that speak up. they'll have people follow them because they believe the same way and smart leadership listens to that. now, i'm sorry. how is shutting down the government over taking health care from people anything like rosa parks saying -- >> exactly. >> -- as a black woman i'm tired of sitting in the back of the bus. >> that's why i have a problem with the congressman from florida. rosa parks trying to advance rights for african-americans. standing up to communist oppression in poland trying to get workers the right to unionize and have -- you know, protections from the government. and from employers in poland.

martin luther king, we know what he was about and pushing for. but what the conservative members in the house are pushing to defund or replace -- repeal obama care, they're taking something away from people. insurance from young people 26 years or younger on their parent's health insurance, discounted drug that is seniors are able to get as a result of obama care and they're taking away the possibility of people affording health care. premiums in new york will go down 50% as a result of the affordable care act. >> and learning about what happens across the country, actually. >> there's no comparison of parks, king and yoho and the folks on capitol hill trying to get rid of obama care. >> very quickly, amy -- >> yeah. i was just going to say, jonathan said the key word. insurance. on october 1st, just because you have access to obama care or the affordable care act, you have

insurance. that doesn't mean you have health care. and doctors and patients medical association did a poll and there's a problem with access to health care. doctors are retiring. doctors are getting out of business. and just because you have that paper does not mean you have access. they did a poll what was the number one thing to give people better access? less government. >> actually -- >> 70% of doctors say that. >> we have to leave it there. we know that there are polls showing a majority of americans don't want to see obama care repealed and access to health care is where we have to start. thank you to amy cramer and jonathan capehart. >> thank you, karen. >> thank you. next, breaking the stigma of mental health issues in america. former congressman patrick kennedy joins us when we come back. ♪

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monday's washington navy yard massacre. as we have learned more about the shooter, the image of a young mind suffering from mental illness is taking shape. and when the conversation again turns to gun violence, startling misperceptions of mental health in america are being revealed. according to a recent gallup poll, americans believe mental health is more of a culprit in gun violence than access to guns themselves. even a study showed that a majority of mentally ill patients are not violent. ironically in what could be a moment for a very real conversation about the need to increase access to mental health care services and the stigmas with it, some use the issue to talk gun safety but try to stay on the nra's good side and not surprisingly many of these same people are doing everything they can to defund the affordable care act which would do more to provide access to mental health care services in america than ever before. according to a 2010 government

study, about 40% of the 11.4 million adults with serious mental illness went untreated. the top two reasons were inability to afford mental health care and the stigma of admitting psychiatric illness and seeking help. by recognizing that mental health and addiction should be treated like any other illness, we could begin to remove the stigma and the shame but some in the media, they aren't in for that conversation. >> allen said, we need to decrease the stigma around mental illness. the opposite is true. certain forms -- not depression or ptsd but paranoid schizophren schizophrenia, we need to make it clear this could be dangerous. >> i think you're -- >> joining me now is someone when's worked extensively on destigmatizing mental illness, congressman patrick kennedy. thank you so much for joining me. >> thank you, karen. thank you for helping to bring

some clarity to the real facts about these issues. i really appreciate it. >> you know, i found that comment by tucker carlson so very disturbing because, again, it moves us in the exactly wrong direction and i know one of the things that you have talked about, i have read what you have written, that even bringing the issue from a legislative perspective to the floor was in some bways -- there was a stigm just with doing that. you think about the stigma if you need help of coming forward. >> well, i'm sure tucker's family as all of our families and my own included were not exempt from brain illness. we all have a brain and just like other organs in our body, that brain doesn't always work the way we hopefully want it to and treat it any other organ of the body and as you started off your program, health care reform

now covers mental health and addiction services, so these tragedies like we're talking about now could be prevented if instead of having the correction system deal with people with serious mental illness, we have the health care system work with people with mental illness. i went to a convention, the cook county jail in chicago. if you walk through those prisons and saw people shouting at themselves and on the floor on their face, you would think we were in 17th century england. this is an abomination in this country. people with a physical illness are being treated like animals. and when people are so disgraceful in their comments like tucker, you just pointed out, it just dehumanizes people and him. because all of us will have family members who suffer from a

brain related illness, whether it's their parent with alzheimer's, their child with addiction, their brother or sister with ms and it's -- well, what do they look like? they look like they're different. they're acting strange. they're acting -- but we give those words crazy, psycho, nuts. those are terribly pejorative words. it's assumed they're character issues opposed to chemistry issues. >> well, i was just going to say, i know that you are consultant for the american psychiatric association and there are a series of psas that are being done to try to help not only decleese the stigreaset we're talking about chemistry and not character. you think about the number of people who if those people would have had access to treatment, perhaps they may not have been

in the cook county jail in the first place. >> so, karen, you know, when it comes to cancer, we don't wait until stage iv cancer to treat you but we do with mental illness. we don't treat mental illness. we wait. everybody, they're like in a crisis condition before we even begin to treat them. that's too late. karen, we wouldn't wait for you to have stage iv cancer to treat you. if you had diabetes, we wouldn't wait to amputate the legs and went blind from diabetes. but in mental illness, we wait as a nation until you become seriously mentally ill before we do anything and what do we do? we lock you up. that's our only solution. i think we need to do more to provide early intervention and intervention. we know that works and why we're talking about all of this other stuff like putting people on lists when what we really need to do to prevent the traffic

dis, okay, then let's treat people so the tragedies are prevented. >> certainly, the affordable care act is a very important step in the right direction, congressman. thank you so much for your time today. >> thank you, karen. we'll be back but in the meantime, you can always disrupt the conversation with us on facebook or tweet us. don't go anywhere. we have a lot more ahead. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.

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i'm filling in for officer owens. she used double miles from her capital one venture card to take an early vacation. buckle up. let's go do cop stuff. [ siren chirps ] license and venture card, ma'am. was i going too fast? oh, you'd be going twice as fast if you had double miles. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one venture card. freeze! don't touch the face! can i drive? absolutely not. what's in your wallet? ♪ i'm just a bill yes i'm only a bill ♪ ♪ and if they vote for me on capitol hill ♪ ♪ well then i'm off to the white house ♪ ♪ where i'll wait in a line ♪ with a lot of other bills for the president to sign ♪ ♪ and if he signs me then i'll be a law ♪ ted cruz and some pals could use a refresher house. the cr stands zero chance of

being a reality. unlike obama care which is, in fact, already a law. now, over in tea party lala land that message is just not getting through and putting the cruz crew in direct opposition of bob corker tweeting this warning to the party complete with a dig at the junior colleague. actually, twitter was the battlefield of choice as house republicans attacked senators cruz and lee to the point where it's hard to tell when's fighting on what side anymore. so with the clock ticking down and no sign of a unified gop strategy, the obama care hostage crisis is now a mayor crisis for the republican party. with that, let's bring in brian walsh, former spokesman for the republican senatorial committee and strategist chris kofinis. brian, you -- i really respected what you wrote. this idea of eating the young and the amount of money spent by outside groups like heritage

against what, you know, good -- who i think you would consider good, loyal republicans, i guess isn't there a concern when as you've got this going on, i mean, this does not send a message to the american people in terms of competent republican leadership when you have this kind of fighting going on. >> it's certainly concerns folks like myself. i mean, republicans have a great opportunity to win back the senate next year. democrats are on defense in red states across the country. we should be focusing on them, the folks that passed the very unpopular law and not fighting amongst ourselves. >> to that point, chris, so we have seen -- we did hear in the house, they were talking about going after some of the red state democrats. we know -- i know the dccc started a program to go after some vulnerable house republicans to try to see if it's at all possible to cobble together that bipartisan group that could get something done in the house. i mean, what are democrats doing

while we're sort of watching this mess go back and forth? >> i think we're sitting there watching a car accident develop. to be frank, there's not much democrats i think can do until, you know, speaker boehner decides, you know, what he's going to do if the senate bill, whatever comes out of the senate, comes back to him. is he going to open the vote? and then count on democrats. well, that's going to be i think a tough thing for him to do and a tough thing for democrats to do depending on what that legislation is. so right now you have a lot of chaos that's basically being perpetrated by the republicans and it's because they've got this civil war that they have been fighting now for -- been going on for four-plus years it feels like. >> to that point, brian, is what's happening -- i mean, hey, the democratic party is a big time party. we have had our like growing pains. i feel your pain. i really do. is the problem here -- are we talking about essentially a split between sort of this sort of traditional republicans and

the new republicans or the tea party? i mean, is it just there's too many camps that can't get along? >> the good news is seeing more conservative voices speak out against the really bad strategy to hold the government hostage over obama care. "the wall street journal" editorial board this week spoke out for it. the manchester union leader this week, a conservative editorial board, also spoke out. it's not just an establishment versus conservative fight. you are starting to see more conservatives be the voice of reason here. in talking about this bad strategy. >> i don't know, chris. the voice of reason? last comment to you. >> i mean, i think until the republican party figures out what party it is, you're going to continue to have these serious divisions and conflicts and that's fine if it's all kept within the party. what it now is is actually threatening the country, the economy, the direction of the country in terms of not only health care but other key

issues. but, you know, i think at some point the republicans have got to, you know, suffer the consequences and that's why, you know, unfortunately, no one wishes for a shutdown. >> sure. >> might be a shutdown to make them wake up to how catastrophic the ideas are. >> thank you, brian and chris. and we'll be right back. >> first american of indian descent ever to win the crown and said she is happy the pageant organization has embraced diversity. >> yes! the miss america pageant embraced diversity. it is a beautiful mosaic of women sized 0 to nearly 2. [ insects chirping ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] experience new febreze sleep serenity and let the soothing scent of moonlit lavender

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forget 2016. what if i told you there was a critical election happening in just two months. that's when virginia voters determine their next governor. republican ken the kuch ku cuccinelli or terry mcauliffe? mcauliffe with a 18-point lead of women are on full display. in 2012, abortion care was the top voting issue for women making up a little more than

half of the elect rat in virginia and nationally. virginia one of 25 states to enact 42 anti-choice measures in 2012. and these were laws that included mandating ultra sounds, defunding planned parenthood and other service providers and creating regulations aimed at forcing clinics to close rather than providing an improved care. in addition to these measures, the doctors that perform this legal procedure have become targets of a kind of domestic terrorism with threats, intimidation and violence. in one instance, 21 horses were burned alive when a family's stable was torched. the murder of dr. george teller in 2009 remains one of the most notable acts of violence. a family planning doctor in wichita, kansas, performing late-term abortions, he was shot to death as he attended church. a new documentary "after tiller" opening friday takes a very personal look in to the lives of the four remaining doctors that

perform late-term abortions and the very real threats they face four years of dr. tiller's death and the film directly challenges the myth that the procedures are ever, ever entered into lightly. as the following clip shows, for both patient and doctor, these are agonizing, painful decisions based on medical necessity. >> obviously, if the baby didn't get part of his brain, what outcome of that can possibly be good and ours has been guilt because it's guilt no matter which way you go. guilt if you do what we're doing or bring him in to this world and he doesn't have any quality of life. >> joining me now, lana wilson and martha shane who produced and directed the film. thank you so much. >> thank you for having us. >> this is an incredible film and you humanize the doctors and what they go through. talk about why they wanted to be a part of this project.

>> well, the doctors' voices left out of the debate for a long time. the abortion debate in mainstream media been the two warring camps screaming at each other and the polarizing abstract arguments that have very little to do with the real situations of the doctors and the patients who they help. so the doctors thought this would first of all be a way to get the patient's stories out there and only way to really understand why third trimester abortion is practiced and they thought, you know, we need to put a human face on the work because otherwise there's no chance of anyone getting why we're doing this. >> martha, i read there was a quote. they thought if more americans meet them and hear where they're coming from and disagreed with the work they did, they at least might not want to kill them. these doctors face not just threats as i mentioned but threats to their lives. >> yeah. absolutely. and, you know, it's interesting. as we got to know the doctors, we discovered they're not all of one political persuasion.

dr. card is a registered republican. dr. tiller was a very religious man. these aren't all just one type of person but what unites them is incredible dedication to their patients who are in the most desperate situations imaginable. >> let's talk about that for a minute in terms of the patient's circumstances because the other thing i think you capture really well is this idea that -- this is a very tough decision for a woman to be able to make with her doctor and i think it makes the point of why it's so important this stays, the ability for women to have this option. talk about that, lana. >> absolutely. the cases are planned pregnancies and very much wanted baby and something goes wrong late in the pregnancy. very tragic fetal anomaly and mourning the loss of a child and making a parenting decision, really. other cases are young women who didn't have access to comprehensive age-appropriate sex education so they might not realize they're pregnant, might not know about birth control, might be terrified to tell their

parents because their so young. there are rape victims who are in denial and also certain portion of women couldn't raise money for an abortion and travel far from the home and deplays them. >> martha, this is an agonizing decision for the doctors, as well who make the decisions with their patients. >> yeah. i mean, i think what was amazing for us is seeing how the doctors have these incredibly nuanced, complex views of their own work and so you actually see, you know, we focused on the doctors themselves and within them you see the whole abortion debate refle reflected. so i think that really makes the appeal to people on both sides of the issue. >> it is really -- i should note i'm a board member of pro-choice america and humanizes a hard issue. thank you. >> thank you. >> lana wilson and martha shane. see the film. that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. don't forget to share your thoughts. find us on facebook and tweet

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