>> yeah, tough stuff, syria, budget negotiations, republicans, and the impulse to have a quick judgment right away. the man in the ostrich boots, ted cruz. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with ted cruz. he reminds me of a pair, actually, of movie characters. one is the cowboy played by slim pickens who rides the first bomb in the nuclear war in "dr. strangelove." [ yelling ]

>> the second character the senator in the ostrich boots reminds me of is frightening in a different way. perhaps in this case it's a matter of down right ignorance. ted cruz brags incessantly about the schools he attended. princeton, harvard law. yet i think there's a gap in his education. he seems not to know the history of demagogues. i think of hewey long who said it will be called antifascism. but i think of joe mccarthy. he reminds me of the smear, the smirk of contempt for all around him. the hostility toward those whose attention he is trying to attract. he gets it already. people pay attention when you walk around with the explosives strapped to your chest.

the only question is who or what has the nerve, the person or party, to put this princeton cowboy in his place? wouldn't it be great if it were a real patriot like john mccain? mr. moran, i haven't seen anybody like this since the movies of the old edward r. morrow days. he sneers like the guy and he seems to have the same contempt for american institutions like deadlines, debts, anything like paying for the government or respecting your colleagues. your thoughts? >> he's a demagogue, chris. and like a lot of demagogues, he's also a phony. you know, he talks of -- he purports to be representing the lower middle class workforce, and yet here's a guy when he was studying at harvard, he'd only study with the graduates from harvard, yale, or princeton.

not from penn or brown or dartmouth. this guy is an arrogant elitist who's doing his best to manipulate a large swath of the country who doesn't know any better. i think they're pretty -- they're going to get onto him pretty fast and realize what a phony he is. and the fact he's leading them in a direction that's so contrary to their own best interests. >> john, i'm trying to figure out where this is taking him. everybody's entitled to free speech in this country. it's a great job being in the senate. it's an impressive job. he's using it a certain way. he's not a legislator. he's not trying to pass bills. he's not trying to really change government the way it's formulated and carried out. what is he actually trying to do? can you figure it? >> well, i think he's trying to disrupt the political system. and he's pretty clever about it. i think he's been able to use a lot of different techniques, social media really disrupt -- attack other republicans.

republicans are not necessarily popular with their base. he's very clever at drawing attention to himself. i think he's got some elements of demagoguery. but also stumbled onto the fact that obama care is extraordinary unpopular. but in many ways, he's don quixote. because he knows he can't successfully get president obama to repeal his own law. so he's almost tilting after windmills. but he's doing it on purpose. he wants people to know he has a plan to ultimately become a leader of a faction and then use that leadership to end a very unpopular program in the republican base. i think he's disruptive and many ways clever. but i can understand why you don't like him very much. >> well, i can imagine with don. what kind of a dream is that? mr. moran, your thought. >> that bothers me. don quixote was my hero.

this guy is not generalist and not an idealist. john, we're such good friends, but i'm really disappointed that you used don as an example of what cruz is doing. >> i didn't mean to offend you, but i think in many ways he's picking fights that he knows he can't win. and he's doing it for strategic reasons. i think the reason is because you want to be able to point to something and you want to make enemies out of people that aren't popular. so i think it's been clever. >> i think you've deconstructed my poorly there. he is a problem for our republic. cruz's pipe dream of a strategy to get the senate to go along with his plans to defund the affordable care act is falling apart. he tried to pass the continuing resolution by a voice vote. that failed.

he tried to convince harry reid to adopt the 60-vote threshold to pass any amendments like the one to strip out the obama care language itself. he failed that too. he's looking to block from being considered on the senate floor. that failed big time. and he's trying to persuade leaders to block a vote that would pave the way for a final vote on the very legislation he supports. guess what. that's failed too. mitch mcconnell, the republican whip john cornyn, and orrin hatch have all called cruz's bluff. in statements over the last 24 hours, they've issued rebukes of cruz's strategy. and it tries to keep the government from shutting down, of course. john feehery, i don't know what your game is here. are you for or against this guy? you're saying there's something wrong with me and not liking the way the guy is doing his business.

is this a clipping of me to go on your way to him? who are you after? >> i'm trying to give analysis. i think he's clever. you need to fight obama care. i think in many ways he's raised obama care up as an issue. but i think his short-term strategy is obviously failing. we were never going to defund obama care through the -- >> okay. let's go back to where i'm at on this guy. i watched this guy's debut. i know first impressions don't tell you everything, but they tell you a hell of a lot. i watched him in the hearings for chuck hagel who is a patriot. he fought for his country unlike a lot of us. he fought in vietnam for real, just like john mccain did. for real. not chicken hawks here. real soldiers who fought and suffered for it. and he accused him in his joe mccarthy fashion of taking money from the north koreans. he said he could have taken the money from the saudis. all this loose talk that even

lindsey graham came out and said out of bounds. that's why i call him mccarthy. not just because he looks like the guy. he acts like him. he has contempt for the american political system. he's not a member of any political party i can tell. he got elected, fair enough. but his behavior has been totally and utterly destructive. you said he's been educational, i disagree. i don't know a single thing about obama care because of him. and you haven't learned a single thing about obama care. congressman, he does not teach. you teach. other people teach. ed shultz teaches. a lot of people on the network teach. i have never learned a thing and neither have you john feehery, from ted cruz. he doesn't teach. he is a demagogue. your thoughts, mr. moran? >> obviously he has no interest in teaching. in fact, i think he benefits from his base being ignorant of the facts, frankly. that's why i think he's running for president. he has no future in the senate. his colleagues don't like him,

don't trust him. so he's going nowhere. he's never going to get a piece of legislation passed after these kind of antics. but i think he's got a greater ambition. he's a very ambitious guy. we have to be very careful of him, treat him seriously. but we're certainly not going to learn anything from him. >> what is he -- i'm not getting two facial. people have their own secondary characteristics. but his way of introducing everything is to sneer. he sneers at people and sneers at the tv camera. what is he sneering at? what is he looking down as nose at, john? can you tell what it is? what is he condescending to all the time? his fellows, his colleagues, us? who's below him? >> obviously he's got a high opinion of his own intellect. usually when you go into the senate, you want to spend a bit of time learning the procedures, learning the people if you want get stuff done. obviously he didn't come to get deals done, he wants to disrupt

the political party. he doesn't have any kind of allegiance to the republican party. he spends a lot of time bashing his fellow republicans. so in many ways, i think he's very disruptive. that could be a good thing. >> what's his role model? is it sarah palin who took the oath of office up in alaska -- i don't care if she took the oath of office but it should to her -- then walked off the job? she took french leave from the only big job she had? is that what he's going to do? being a vagabond, a troubadour to the right? >> i think he's far brighter than sarah palin. i think his role model is his father. i don't think he has a senatorial role model. i think he believes passionately what he believes in. i think he believes in himself. that's what's guiding him towards where he's going. >> you're letting him off here. what does he believe that you don't? what does he believe you don't believe? you're letting him off the hook here as an idealist.

i don't think that's true. >> what i believe is in the republican party. and i don't think he believes in the republican party. i believe in trying to work through the legislative process. i don't think he necessarily believes in that. i don't necessarily believe in ted cruz, but i do think he's been a very disruptive and interesting figure in the political scene. >> you know, i think, mr. moran, i think about the thing he's holding and i use the reference about strapping dynamite to yourself. he's offering a real threat to our american political system. he is threatening to the extent he's able to do it -- we don't think he's going to pull it off -- but he's threatening to stop the u.s. government in its tracks until he gets what he wants. the destruction of the president's landmark bill. he then wants to stop the government from paying its bills, wants them to default so he can get what he wants. that's pretty close to destructive. i don't want to use the word terrorism because he's not killing people as such. but this is extreme behavior. >> yes, he is. but the rush limbaughs of the world love him. there are so many extremist

commentators out there right now on hate radio and some on fox. but he's leading the charge. they're giving him credibility, frankly, in the right wing ecochamber. but i don't think he's going to derail the government. but when we get to the debt ceiling, chris, and then we have to keep the government funded again, say, november 15. i think ted cruz will play another important role because he's going to keep hammering away at the credibility of people who really want this government to function for the betterment of everyone. >> speaking of credibility, i think what defines -- the difference between him and regular conservatives, i don't think he cares about the future of the u.s. government. we all agree on that. i don't think he cares about the future of the republican party. john said that. i don't think he cares about the american economy. the wall street journal

editorial page, they don't want the american economy to crumble. this guy doesn't seem to care. and that's what's really scary to them. thank you jim moran and john feehery. coming up, so exactly who is this guy ted cruz? a reporter for the republican friendly weekly standard wrote that as he was in the back seat of a car listening to cruz, he calculated how many vertebrae he might break if he jumped out of the speeding car. also president obama kicks off a six-month effort to explain the affordable health care act. about time. and he talks with bill clinton at the clinton global initiative today. plus it looks like we're about to witness a thaw in relations with iran nearly 34 years after hostages were taken in tehran. and president obama said the reason he quit smoking is he's afraid of his wife michelle. i know a lot of men that can relate. this is "hardball," the place for politics. she's always had a playful side.

and you love her for it. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.

we've got new poll numbers out on the hot governors race in virginia. let's check the "hardball" score board. first our nbc 4/nbc/marist poll. mccauliffe 43, cuccinelli 38. mccauliffe is leading cuccinelli by 18 points with women voters. we'll be right back.

we saw with his nomination something truly extraordinary which is the government of iran formally and publicly praising the nomination of a defense secretary. i would suggest to you that to my knowledge, that is unprecedented to see a foreign nation like iran publicly celebrating a nomination.

>> joe mccarthy in action there. again, welcome back to "hardball." that was ted cruz, of course, during his attack on chuck hagel when hagel was nominated to be secretary of defense. who is this guy ted cruz? a new profile in "gq" magazine devised cruz as the wacko bird from texas shows a self-important side to the senator who has built his brand as the tea party conservative. a regular guy, so to speak. jason zengerle says cruz has come to the unavoidable conclusion that he's more intelligent, more right than pretty much everyone else in our nation's capital. the profile he paints shows a tight grip on his party and loathed by many of his republican senate colleagues. he is a man in the drivers seat, but is the seat big enough for his ego? well said there. jason zengerle joins me along with the great dallas morning

news real reporter senior political writer wayne slater. thanks, wayne. hold your horses for a second because we have to talk about the profile piece. jason, what was he like, what is he like? >> he's very practiced. i think that was the thing that was most interesting. you would spend a lot of time riding around with him. you'd type up the transcript and read other speeches and see he says the same thing verbatim. he speaks in speeches. he's used to giving these speeches. >> did you see the movie "the lives of others," when you repeat yourself verbatim it means you're lying. not saying he's lying. why do you think he is that way? what does that tell you about his personality that everything is robotic and repetitive? >> he's very careful right now. >> is he selling? >> he's selling.

>> what's he selling? >> himself. >> what's the marketing product he's putting out there? guy who's going to shut the government down? the guy who's not nervy. he country care what anybody thinks. what's that about? >> the principle conservative voice. the guy that's going to sell out to the republicans in washington and be a voice for true conservatives. >> what i don't get here, wayne, and we talk a lot, i try to go through a routine with members of the congress on the republican side mostly but with others. was barack obama legitimately elected president? some of them choke on that because they want to play to the birther crowd. then i've asked did the affordable care act get passed legitimately? yes. well, it was passed legitimately, why are they refusing to fund it and using the federal governments a hostage to do that? do it all right and then say

that doesn't matter. let's start all over and defund it and kill it. kill the baby in its crib. that's extraordinary legislative behavior for somebody who never passed a bill. in other words, all he wants to be known as is a guy who killed a bill after it was passed. >> it's not he just wants to kill a bill. he wants to be known as the guy who stands up and fights even if it's the alamo, even if everybody dies. i'm the guy who's principled, i'm smarter, better, stronger, and more pure than everyone else. that has always been his motif. i traveled around when he was running for the senate and the amazing thing to me, jason is right. i still hear whole sections of paragraphs that he was saying then when he said i'm going to shake up washington, when he talks today. >> is he a reply cat? >> he wants to represent that constituency and become president. >> i think he needs a blade runner. jason you reported on a side of

cruz in that article many might be surprised to learn about. quote, the elite academic circles cruz was now traveling in began to run off. as at law student at harvard, he refused to study with anyone who hadn't been an undergrad at harvard, princeton, or yale. he didn't want anybody from minor ivies like penn or brown university. he was also known for dispatching regular updates on his accomplishments that one recipient likened to the cards people send about their families at christmas except ted's were only about him and more frequent. i like to get them from people, they are pretty extraordinary. letters with everything the family accomplished that year. you said he would send out his own about him. and they weren't based on christmastime either. he actually said this is an update on what i've been up to? >> yeah. it was a distinguished group of people on it. there were members of the supreme court on it. >> he would let them know

telling the list? that's a horse's ass thing to do, isn't it? >> he had people he wanted to keep updated. >> without asking. >> yeah. without asking. >> wayne, are you on his list down there? did you get the who's who of ted? this guy's amazing. i thought we had egos in my business. this breaks records, i think. your thoughts? >> look, i hear from the people who are around him. it was well known in the 2000 bush campaign where ted cruz was part of the crew doing research and policy that if anybody important was coming to the door, a lot of important people would come, cruz was gone. everybody would look around, he was not at his desk. he was meeting that important person, a national journalist, or some other important political person. everyone the word was that cruz spent most of the time not promoting george bush, but promoting himself talking about his credentials, the fact he was in harvard law, mentioning rehnquist and all the rest of

it. so this latest revelation about cruz where jason has it so perfectly, really is something that's been going on for quite a while and folks here in texas who worked closely with him know it. >> you know, i'm sure -- jim baker went to princeton. i don't think he told anybody he went there. this guy seems to tell everybody within two seconds. >> it's part of his -- it's different for baker. baker was an upper class kid. the thing i was most surprised about was he grew up very middle class when he was in high school his father's business failed. went bankrupt. kind of redoubled cruz's idea to do this. first one in his family to go to princeton. he did it all himself. so i think that might be some of it. there's a certain amount of pride in his accomplishments because he's self-created. >> a reporter from the weekly standard detailed his time at the senate. this is what happened when they finished the interview from the back seat of a car.

quote, he spoke of his father again. he mentioned a great divide in america again and was quoting margaret thatcher when i realized he was giving a speech again except at this time only a few feet away in the back seat of a car. i made a quick calculation of how many vertebrae i would damage if i did a tuck and roll into the passing pavement. the answer was too many. he couldn't stand sitting next to the guy listening to him give another speech. you know, i think he's completely eligible to run for president in terms of birth. his mother was an american. does he seem like a guy who's going for the big one? or does he want to be sarah palin giving speeches and making noise? >> no. he does not want to be sarah palin. i think he wants to ride this wave as long as he can. >> don't you need one other person to like you to be president? >> he's got mike lee. and that's what's he's testing. he's seeing if you really need people in washington to like

you. he's made the calculation that you don't. >> i think you need people around you. jason zengerle, congratulations on the piece. and wayne slater, thank you for the hometown update. up next, the woman who scared president obama into finally kicking his nicotine habit which was good for all of them. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] progresso's so passionate about its new tomato florentine soup, it took a little time to get it just right. [ ding ] ♪ but finally, it happened.

perfection. at progresso, we've got a passion for quality, because you've got a passion for taste.

♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ ♪ back to "hardball." in time for the sideshow. former president clinton went on the late show last night to discuss the annual meeting of the clinton global initiative which takes place this week. take a look at how letterman asked him the question that's on everyone's mind. >> if -- and i know you know. why wouldn't you know? of course you would know. there's two people that know. maybe three. i bet chelsea knows. if hillary is running in 2016

for president, and recent polls indicate that people who favor democratic party would favor her as the candidate. that's not even close. [ applause ] if she is running to your knowledge, blink twice. >> i blinked once. >> well, next up, president obama's nicotine habit has been the subject of curiosity over the years. back in 2009 he admitted that he was struggling to quit smoking and subsequent photographs released by the white house appeared to show nicorette gum in the oval offense. zoom in a little, and there it is. yesterday in a private conversation at the u.n. round table event, the president confirmed he has indeed kicked the habit once and for all. but there's more. check out why he says he's smoke free.

>> he's scared of his wife. well, congratulations nonetheless. up next, president obama kicks off a six-month effort to explain the affordable care act. and look who's helping him do it. bill clinton the former president. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

we said to insurance companies you've got to use at least 80% of your premium that you're receiving on actual health care. not on administrative costs and ceo bonuses. and if you don't, you've got to rebate anything that you spent back to the consumer. so there are millions of americans who've received rebates. they may not know they got it because of the affordable care act or quote, unquote obama care. but they're pretty happy to get those rebates back. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama appearing with president clinton

this evening at the clinton gloeshl initiative. this is the second time the former president has made an appearance promoting the new law. and he's an ally for the current president. one week from today people without insurance can begin signing up for the new health care exchanges. jonathan capehart is a columnist for the "washington post." and joan walsh is an msnbc contributor. we all know what coca-cola is. we probably all like it or we all like diet coke or something. but coca-cola advertises relentlessly. it keeps tells us the advantages of coke all the time. that's how our minds have to be re-educated and resold all the time. the president passed health care and thought the job was done. he opened the door to the koch brothers, different spelling, out there to screw this thing and confuse people. yaur thoughts, joan? >> i think he's done more than

we give him credit for and more than we know about. that one moment where he explained the rebates, that's true. people got though and didn't know they were part of obama care. i think they've not done a perfect job, but he has been giving speeches and enlisted the former president. >> that's now. >> he did it a year ago at the convention. he did it a month ago. they've both been on the road. but it's not enough. i'm not saying it's enough, but it hasn't cut through because there's so much garbage and so many lies. >> money. so much money. >> there's so much money at stake. so i don't entirely fault him on this one. i think they're a little late getting to the concrete benefits, but they've been trying to do it. i've seen them try to do it and people just don't pay attention because the other side is so fascinating and crazy. >> it's so hard to be on his side, because he's advocating something new. it's going to help people in the emergency rooms right now that don't have health care.

but the other side has it easy. scare tactics are easy. koch brothers, the uncle sam looking up the girl's dress. it's gross as hell but people are going to remember it. >> here's the thing. it's easy for republicans and conservatives to hammer away at obama care because it's not fully implemented. your coke example is a good example. coca-cola can hammer away at its advertising campaign because people can see the commercial and immediately get a can of coke. it's tangible. what's happening with obama care is a lot of the pieces are being implemented piece by piece. some pieces have been delayed. but until it's fully implemented, a lot of people aren't going to know, one, all the benefits that accrue to them. but here's the other thing that president obama said in the speech before we came on. he said i have no pride of ownership. i just want it to work. he was telling the story about the kentucky state fair where a guy was signing people up and

looking at these rates and the guy says hey, these rates are better than obama care. >> it's great. i personally, it's just my usual idea. i think they ought to call it the democrats health care plan. the democrats have been fighting for this -- they're not great on everything. they're not great on fiscal responsibility and wars, but they're really good on health care. former secretary of state hillary clinton introduced president obama and former president clinton by pointing out a long list of their similarities. let's listen to part of the introduction by hillary. >> both are master politicians. each of them has only lost one election. they are both democrats. they have fabulous daughters. they each married far above themselves. and they each love our country. and so please join me in

welcoming number 42 and number 44, bill clinton and president barack obama. >> well, that's the former secretary hillary clinton at her absolute best. charming, debonair, all the good things there. i'm smiling. there's something -- that's a nice position to be in. building up to the guy who beat you which is always charming and building up your hubby which works. >> you know what else really struck me about that moment, chris? on a split screen, you've got senator ted cruz doing his non-filibuster. it's not a filibuster because it has no meaning, standing alone the least popular man in congress, the least popular man among his republican colleagues too. destroying his party, dividing his party while you've got the three towering symbols of the democratic party allied. they once did fight. they came back together for the country's sake. there they are telling the country what's going to happen under this health care law. the symbolism is so powerful.

>> what's an objective answer? first of all, we'll warm up with jon and go to you. is the reason the hard right fighting the hardest, is it that they're afraid like all other social advances the democrats have come up with, social security, medicare, once they're in office and in effect -- people like my dad loved medicare. he loved going to the doctor because it was free. and he earned it. in the sense of having earned it and make it free at some point in your life. then we have health care. is that what the republicans are afraid of? that people are going to like it and a year or two from now it's part of the system? >> absolutely. >> how do you deal with that objectively? >> we'll find out. but this is september 23rd, 24th? >> 24th. >> the thing starts enrolling people or gets off the ground october 1st. they are fighting like hell now because they want to discourage

people, creepy uncle sam commercials and all, to discourage them from signing up. >> can people like the koch brothers, can they actually get people so screwed up in the brain scared enough to believe they wouldn't like something they would normally like? >> absolutely, they can affect people. now it's incumbent upon -- >> let me go to joan. are they afraid it's going to be workable and likable or are they afraid it won't be? >> absolutely i have no doubt they're afraid it's going to be very popular. it's going to help people. it is already bringing the costs down. and when it starts to do that, it'll really be unstoppable. more important it's really going to help people. they're going to like it. people will not lose their health insurance who have it. people who want to change jobs will have a little bit more flexibility in this very tough economy. i think they absolutely fear people growing to like it, getting used to it, before whatever like the guy in tennessee, whatever he thinks he's getting, he likes it.

and that's why they've started this dramatic push at the last -- they've always fought it, but this incredible push. >> it's easy for me to say, but i think it would have been better if he got all the members, the democrats to send out in the monthly news letters to use those to educate people. that way they'd be ready. jonathan, thank you so much. joan as always. thank you both. up next, nearly 34 years after the hostage standoff in tehran, we might be ready to engage with tehran. this is bigger than obama. it's bigger than a lot of things if we can avoid a war. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. as a working mom of two young boys life could be hectic. angie's list saves me a lot of time. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with honest reviews on over 720 local services. keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies.

angie's list definitely saves me time and money. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today. always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did my research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied,

increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. corey booker's lead is shrinking in new jersey. let's check the score board. according to a new quinnipiac poll, booker's lead has tightened, but still 12 points over lonegan. earlier polls have shown booker with the lead as big as 31 points. that is coming up october 16th.

the u.n. today some diplomatic overtures. every fall world leaders fall in new york for the general assembly. for the past few years the focus has been on the iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad. he would use the gathering to make allegations of a u.s. role in the 9/11 attacks. his successor is trying to improve his country's standing in the world. president obama has made it clear he's willing to take cautious steps to engage tehran. >> the united states and tehran have been isolated from one another since the islamic revolution of 1979.

the mistrust has deep roots. i don't believe this difficult history can be overcome overnight. the suspicions run too deep. but i do believe that if we can resolve the issue of iran's nuclear program, that can serve as a major step down a long road towards a different relationship. one based on mutual interests and mutual respect. >> when i listen to him like that, i think of obama at his best when he's trying to do best for the world. the buzz was about a meeting between the leaders themselves. didn't happen that way. no hand shake. but the headline out of today's gathering is that obama has had kerry to pursue engagement with iran. we're giving diplomacy a chance. eugene robinson and michael crowley.

gene, you first. you think big about these things and i am so happy that there is now a chance to avoid a war. a chance. >> yeah. i think from today's performances by obama and rouhani, i think on balance the only losers are the writers of "saturday night live." they don't get to get mahmoud ahmadinejad like they used to but you have to say it's a hopeful day. in fact there's some potential jaw jaw about to -- >> the fact rouhani comes in and says he wants to negotiate with the united states. he knows the terms. they all know the bottom line, they can't have a nuclear weapon. is he trying to waste our time while they're trying to building a weapon. >> exactly. so the question becomes continued enrichment, verification, inspection,

control and all the questions about a nuclear program. >> michael crowley, i hope there's a deal somewhere short of them having a weapon. but is there a deal here potentially? >> well, chris, i think there is potentially a deal, but i think we're still a long way from it. so everyone is kind of dancing and the courtship has begun, the mating ritual and the sides are circling each other. but substantively you haven't seen anybody change their fundamental positions. so, for instance, the iranians among other things, one has to stop threatening to use force. don't put a gun on the table when you begin negotiations. i don't think that you're going to see obama stop the use of force. we want to see the iranians do something tangible like top their nuclear program. are they really going to be willing to do that before sanctions are lifted? so who goes first? what are people putting on the table?

that is really complicated stuff. >> is there ignorance here? michael, you're acting -- you're suggesting there's ignorance. they know the terms. they can't build a weapon. we knows terms, we can't let them build a weapon. why is there question marks? are they going in that direction of not building a weapon or continue the direction of building one? >> it's not clear what they're going to choose to do but there's this gray area where they continue to enrich uranium and they have enough. the problem that we have, the united states has is that they have enough uranium that if they kicked out the inspectors and decided to make a sprint for the weapon, we might not have time to do anything about that. so american policy is to try to keep them from getting to that point. it's actually not so black and white they're going to build a weapon or they're not. the reason why i think they sort of have the upper hand is they can be in this gray area where they can get close to having a weapon. have they really crossed a line where we're going to use military force? it's not totally clear and where is the line. >> that sounds like the netanyahu line you're giving me.

we're already near that red line. you really think it's a matter of days that they can go from not having a nuclear weapon to having one? >> well, what the people who i know who know a lot about the iranian program say that you could be a matter of weeks or couple of months. >> that's all the time to attack. >> well, yes. if we wanted to do it unilaterally and didn't want to go through. you see how long the diplomacy is taking in syria. i'm not arguing we've got to start the bombing. this is what i think not only israel but a lot of people in washington and the obama administration are worried about. so it's not -- it's not that clear cut where they just say we're not going to build a bomb and it's over. the question is does the program slow down, is it dismantled, do we have really thorough inspections that they can't sneak around. so the devil is really in the details here. >> one detail i'd like to know, can they move towards nuclear energy and not toward a nuclear bomb? >> well, many countries have done that. japan has nuclear energy and doesn't have a nuclear weapons program.

sure it can be done, but we trust japan, we don't trust iran. iran has been belligerent and the two cases are nowhere near equivalent. but sure, it can be done. here's something that's different now, though, or that's demonstrated now. frankly it's the american appetite or lack of appetite for war. and i think there is -- and in fact the general lack of appetite for war, i think, it's conceivable that the iranians are not only feeling the pinch of the sanctions but are looking at syria, what almost happened, what might happen, what is happening syria and how the place is being torn apart -- >> you and i have a general feeling for obama of support. but we can't predict obama. he's sort of dangerous in a way. he might go and say i've got to go against iran. >> there are certain points that he would if it reaches that tipping point. >> i think he's quite ready to bomb them if they go for weapons. >> this is a moment. i think it's a moment.

the possibility could evaporate. >> i wouldn't bet against him. i wouldn't push the guy. thank you, gene robinson. i think that's where it's at. don't push obama on this stuff. when we return, let me finish with this new chance. here's my positive thinking to avoid a war in iran because i know it's going to be a one-shot affair. we attack them, we've got a war on our hands. [ female announcer ] can it get any cleaner? [ steam hisses ] actually... guys! [ female announcer ] ...it can. introducing swiffer steamboost powered by bissell. it gets the dirt that mops can leave behind with steam-activated cleaning pads that break down dirt and lock it away. how did you get this floor so clean? ♪ steamboost, sir! [ female announcer ] new swiffer steamboost powered by bissell. not just clean, steamboost clean. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses,

i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands in out-of-pocket costs. to me, relationships matter. i've been with my doctor for 12 years. now i know i'll be able to stick with him. [ male announcer ] with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and you never need a referral to see a specialist. so don't wait. call now and request this free decision guide to help you better understand medicare...

and which aarp medicare supplement plan might be best for you. there's a wide range to choose from. we love to travel -- and there's so much more to see. so we found a plan that can travel with us. anywhere in the country. [ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is.

let me finish tonight with this. just when you think all is lost, until a few days ago i had the feeling that war with iran was inevitable, not just an american attack on iran but war. a long-term violent conflict on several fronts with americans and others getting killed in terrorist attacks all over the place. i thought this war was coming, a, because i didn't think iran would stop its rush to build nuclear weapons and, b, because i didn't believe and still don't that a u.s. attack on the other hand would end with that. it would trigger a war and with the people of iran uniting behind their government in opposition to those they would see as the aggressors. not that we would look at it that way, but they would. now there is more than a glimmer of hope that the newly elected president of iran, rouhani, has in his hands to start the slow progress toward our two countries. the recognition on both sides is what the bottom line has to be the president obama has said we cannot permit iran to build a nuclear weapon. i have to be communications being what they are that rouhani