from despair to delusion, gop takes two steps forward and about 39 steps back. thursday, september 26th and this is "now." from a really bad idea to a terrible one. speaker john boehner may have finally ended the plan on the war to shut down american government by starting a fight that may send the american economy into a tailspin. his scheme, lull the house gop into submission on a short-term bill to keep the government up and running by promising a delusionally large bag on the

ceiling. authorizing bills the payment already racked up, the president must agree to a delay in the nation's health care law, the elimination of greenhouse gas regulations, the authorization of the keystone pipeline and end to social service grants that provide daycare and provide meals to elderly and elimination of parts of dodd/frank financial reform. no word yet on whether the house gop will ask for the resignation of attorney general eric holder or a decrease in the federal minimum wage. as with all things republican, things are fluid here. "the washington post" sums up the bill quite niecely. house gop debt limit bill isn't a serious governing document, not even a possible opening bid, it is a cry for help. it may not be serious, plausible, it may not be grounded in reality. as the speaker announced this morning, it's what they got. >> the president says i'm not going to negotiate. well, i'm sorry but it just doesn't work that way.

>> joining me contributing editor for new york magazine and editor of the "huffington post" media and joining us from the white house is cnbc chief washington correspondent john harwood. when you think things can't get worse, they inevitably do. lets talk about how the financial services sector is seeing this latest bid by the republicans. it would seem by all logic this is a worse idea than shutting down the government yet republicans seem to be unified around it. >> well, interestingly the financial community i think is still, alex, sanguine this is going to get worked out. the typical back and forth in washington. in that way the fantastical nature, says, hey, this is a gesture, we'll work it out. what we don't know, as you

suggested in the intro, making this up as they go along and find out how they can help them. in a place where they can accept government funding but we don't know to what degree they will back away from this once the reckoning comes on the 17th of october. >> howard, john makes a really good point. who is going to be the vladimir putin to come in and save everybody's hide and is it possible with the caucus. >> nobody has czar-like powers at this point. i think john is right. what boehner is trying to do here is distract his own troops and say don't worry about that little continuing resolution to fund the government for the next few weeks or months or whatever, lets start screaming about the debt ceiling. he's right. that's why boehner came with the dramatic proposal. i was speaking to democrats on the phone in new york just now, people on the hill telling me there's no way that the democratic leadership in the senate or the president are going to negotiate over these

matters. they are just not going to do it. there's a school of thought that the president made a mistake and sort of encouraged hostage negotiating back a couple of years ago on the fiscal cliff. >> yes. >> that he encouraged this infantile behavior and it's going to stop. they are going to try. they may be blowing smoke but democrats are saying we are not going to accept anything on the debt ceiling. you can try to push it off from the spending vote to the debt ceiling vote but we're not going to accept it on either one. >> the danger i see, ben, on the government shutdown piece you had paul ryan, tom cole, other moderate establishment voices saying this is a bad idea. they all are agreeing the debt ceiling is something we should negotiate on. that should be the fight that we might. paul ryan i think really gave us insight into thinking here we have to stay on the right side of public opinion. shutting down the government

puts us on the wrong side. the fight is on the debt limit. this is all political. the debt limit is way worse for the country and american workers but better for republicans politically. >> we don't know how bad it will be. the government shutdown, some sense how it will play out. there were contingencies plans. we've been through this with the debt limit. no one knows what will happen when we breach it. it's been interesting over the last few days to see what's happening within the conservative grassroots. while the mainstream media is talking with increasing horror about what might happen if we cross this rubi conof the debt limit breach, the debate is all about ted cruz, this long-term playing out of what did the tea party mean, the internal war between the tea party folks and establishment of republicans. there's a sense of internal drama that's been happening on the right among conservatives that sort of overwhelm all other

debates. >> even more micro than that. i would say there's a presidential campaign going on right now between nomination race going on in the senate between ted cruz and rand paul. that is the hot colonel at the center of this thing. rand paul kind of outstatesman ted cruz a few days ago. rand paul got a bump with his own filibuster on drones a few months ago. >> john, you're standing on the lawn of the white house and the president minced no words a few moments ago saying we will not negotiate on this. sources say there is no room for negotiation here. the reality is, i don't necessarily think this is the right thing, the president gets blamed in moments like this. if you look at his approval ratings he's at 43 approval rating, disapproval at 49%. that is the worst showing since 2011 which featured the dark days of the debt limit fiasco.

as much as they say he won't and say he should not does he have to at some point give something somewhere. >> i don't think he has to. remember, his approval rating may be down but he's not up for election again. republicans will have to defend house majority. tom cole and others say the one way we lose majority is if we provoke some sort of crisis. the president was hurt in 2011 by what happened, but republicans may have been hurt more. the president won re-election after that. i think the president is serious about this. i'm not sure that has sunk in. there are some things republicans have asked for that i think the president will go along with at some point. some of this is cosmetic. i think he'll eventually approve the keystone pipeline. one is more medicare means testing. the president proposed some of that in his budget. some of this is how you talk about it and when you talk about it but i think he's serious. one of the things we're waiting for, remember how cheap we got a

debt limit deal earlier this year. somebody came up with the genius idea saying if the senate doesn't pass a budget they won't get paid. yeah, we'll stick it to them with that. that was their condition, easily satisfied, inconsequential. somebody did pass a budget. somebody has to have major league level of innovation on this one. >> howard, there is also the precedent. to that point, if the president had -- who knows what would have happened in 2011 if the president hadn't negotiated even if he made concessions he wants to make on testing or keystone pipeline, is that a good precedent to set for future negotiations. >> the precedent has been set. that's the problem he's got. he's probably going to be in a position where he has to give something to republicans they can argue to their troops was a concession. everyone is dreaming of the way congress used to work where there were committees that examined things and wrote a

budget as opposed to lets not forget the sequester is what's in effect here. i don't see republicans ever giving up on that. because they don't give up on it, it means the idea of the regular logical political consideration of how to spend our money in this country is dead. this the system we've got for better or worse. i frankly don't see how we get out of it. i really don't. >> paul krugman points out something really important in all this. if there was a question about what republican priorities are at this point, i think it's been written out pretty clearly for us. as krugman says debt ceiling fight attempt to dismantle welfare for greenspan and increase economic quality. when you look at the laundry list, a dear santa list of i'd like a bicycle and dollhouse and grants to feed the poor and help secure early childhood

education. this is where the modern republican party is at. >> the president went a step further than krugman a little while ago said if we do reach the debt ceiling this represents a change to the constitutional structure of the company. it will be interesting to see if he keeps up that line. i didn't hear anything as strong as that today. i think what you're talking about, though, what he's talking about there shows the shrewdness of this republican proposal. as looney as we say it is, there's a laundry list of 15 things. you can just see talking about how sanguine some of the markets are. part of the reason is we've been through this before. people are going to say, come on, just give them four of that list of 15. give them three. who cares about the keystone pipeline. it's not a big deal to you. >> to use a market term, this has been priced into the way

things work at this point. in looking at the conservatives who i've covered for decades, my take on this is they have spent 30 or 40 years promising their own people they are going to dismantle or at least limit the so-called welfare state. they haven't done it. yes, cuts, painful cuts in education, social programs, so forth. overall the size of the government is what it was if not bigger. now you have a younger generation of people like ted cruz, who is only 42. >> marco rubio. >> they are impatient with the old systems of government. it's almost as though they are blaming the idea of representative government as we know it for the problems we have. >> i think they are. >> which makes it a little difficult to use -- to be in representative government. >> john, before we let you know, you said at the beginning of this segment and howard just repeated it that financial services sector, wall street is fairly sanguine about what's going on. at any point as we get closer to

this jack lew says we'll hit it. the chamber came out saying this is not a good idea. do you think we'll see more words of caution from conservatives outside of government? >> yes, i do. look, even though people on wall street, u.s. chamber doesn't have the influence that those institutions once did with some parts of the republican caucus, they still have influence, especially with the leadership, especially people paying for campaigns next year as republicans try to hold their majority. there is some clout there. wall street tends to be reluctant to get all in with both feet. especially they got burned on the fiscal cliff. they thought they would promote a grand deal. we didn't get one. we got a little tiny deal. i think there has been some reluctance. as we get close to the 17th, the wall street community will speak out forcefully on this.

>> nothing speaks louder than money. cnbc washington correspondent john harwood, thank you for your time as always. after the break, while republicans fixate on the impossible, president obama hit the road to explain the benefits of something real. the affordable care act. we'll discuss next week's great american rollout when secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius joins us live next on "now." my name is lee kaufman. married to morty kaufman. [ lee ] now that i'm getting older some things are harder to do. this is not a safe thing to do. be careful babe. there should be some way to make it easier [ doorbell rings ] let's open it up and see what's cookin'. oh i like that. look at this it's got a handle on it. i don't have to climb up. this yellow part up here really catches a lot of the dust. did you notice how clean it looks? morty are you listening? morty? [ morty ] i'm listening! i want you to know but it doesn't usually work that way with health care.

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with just five days until open enrollment in the nation's new health care exchanges begins and with polls showing the administration still has some convincing to do, president obama traveled to maryland to urge americans to sign up. >> tell your friends, tell your

classmates, tell your family members about the new health care choices. talk to folks at your church, classroom. going to a football game, basketball game, talk to them. i promise you, if you go on the website and it turns out you're going to save $100, $200, $300 on insurance or you're going to be able to buy insurance for the first time, even if you didn't vote for me, i'll bet you'll sign up for that health care plan. >> while the nation's capital may be trans fixed by republican shenanigans newspapers around the country are focusing on the law itself and choices facing 48 million uninsured americans. today they urged to ignore the flood of misinformation. >> there's been a lot of things stead, a lot of misinformation, a lot of confusion, but there

are few things more fundamental to the economic security of the middle class and everybody trying to get into the middle class than health care. >> for a white house making its case good news came in the form of a government study showing 94% of insurance premiums on federalry run exchanges will cost less than projections. the average premium for the bronze plan is $249 a month of the tax credits will bring that number down below $100 for nearly six in ten individuals seeking health insurance. it's a price president obama equated to another bill most people are intimately familiar with. >> now you can do it for the cost of your cable bill, probably less than your cell phone bill. think about that, good health

insurance for the price of your cell phone bill or less. >> prices vary dramatically from a low of $110 in tennessee to a high of $286 a month in wyoming. the numbers are only a snapshot of what some may pay. the full list of rates will be posted october 1st. as "the new york times" notes the figures by definition provide a favorable view of costs highlighting the least expensive coverage in each state. the paper also noted good news about premiums comes with a downside, fewer insurance options. just within the last few moments "politico" reports the obama administration delaying another piece of obama care this time postponing enrollment in small business exchanges scheduled to open on october 1st. joining me now from dallas is the secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius. secretary, thank you so much for joining us today. >> glad to be with you. >> i first asked about news from

"politico." how accurate are reports about the latest delay. >> alex, what is happening with shop exchange, small business exchange where for the first time small business owners will be able to compare plans side by side. that would be available. people will be able to see what's in the marketplace, look at coverage, find out if this is good for their employees, find out about the tax credit then november 1st do the online enrollment. again, alex, these are plans that don't start until january 1st. well before any insurance would be available, business owners would be able to do side by side comparesons and enroll online starting in november. >> to be clear, the actual insurance isn't delayed, it's the enroll mint process pushed back by a month while presumably

small businesses get more familiar with what's available. >> that's correct. it was always a lead time to get ready to get coverage. so all the benefits start january 1st, small business owners will be able to pull up plans available in their market, compare prices side by side and find out about the tax credit for the smallest business owners with low wage employees, they could qualify for up to 50% of tax credit to provide coverage for their employees, although they don't have any law requiring them to provide that coverage. they have a win-win situation. november 1st, they can go on and enroll in the plan best for them and their employees. >> it doesn't sound like much of a measurable change here.

as you're probably well aware, republicans who are really organize around one principle and one principle only these days, which is to repeal obama care have made hey over every change, delay, what is called a glitch that has happened thus far. are you worried about the latest installment? does it further set back efforts in dallas, texas, rick perry and certainly ted cruz have not exactly been ambassadors on health care. if you look at the numbers fewer people think obama care aca is a good idea compared to last year. i wonder, how effective has this demagoguing been? >> unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation around the country, certainly in states where governors have gotten up every day and said we will not participate in the plan. texas has one of the highest uninsured populations in the country. nearly 5 million texans have no

health coverage at all. it's a state this should be good news for lots of families, individuals. i was just with evelyn hernandez here at los barrios. she talked about the situation she's in, divorced, young son, doesn't have insurance. she's anxious for the 1st, because they don't have health care. we were with county judge jenkins, great local leaders reaching to the faith community. they were state representatives in the room, health providers, teachers and others. so i'm really excited about the fact that in spite of the fact that the state government may not be on board, local elected leaders, faith leaders, health care advocates and others are very much engaged in the process

of getting the facts to citizens here in dallas and across texas. what their rights are under the law, what benefits they may be entitled to and how, as the president says, they can get health security for the first time in their lives. >> secretary, given the benefits of this law, and you just recounted anecdotes about what it means to people's lives. it sort of gives them a fighting chance. are you surprised one of two political parties has mounted such a strong assault on this law. when you saw ted cruz doing a 22-hour quasi filibuster, really to shed light on nothing more than how much he hates obama care. were you surprised -- have you been surprised at all about the outpouring of anger and vehement opposition to this law? >> i have been surprised, alex. i guess i've spent most of my

professional life, was raised in a tradition where healing the sick and taking care of those in vulnerable positions was always something i was taught was a moral duty that all of us share. we have an opportunity for the first time ever in the history of this country to say to all americans you have affordable health care coming your way. you have the right to have access to the best medical care in the world that you haven't had before. we know not only does it make a huge difference in people's lives, they live longer, they live more prosperously, they can take care of their kids, be better workers, but it's a huge issue in our economy where now millions of people come through the doors of emergency rooms and take a toll on the taxpayers, our less productive overall as workers. there's a moral cause, a business cause.

i'm just hoping this final phase of the law, which is going to kick in on tuesday with a six-month open enrollment period, that people will finally have the facts. what we know is that 3 million young adults already have coverage on payment plans because of affordable care act. seniors paying less for prescription drugs. that's affordable care act. we have the lowest health cost increases in 50 years throughout our system. that's the affordable care act. good things have already happened. now we have the final phase. healthcare.gov is up and running and we hope people come on the site and get the facts for themselves. >> secretary sebelius, i think one of the many unfortunate consequences of the fight happening in congress over obama care, those things that do need fixing, the white house is pushed against a wall in terms of having to defend all parts of the law, a collaborative action

to fix a problem, we're not seeing that. a lot of people aren't optimistic. i have to ask you, there are things that have been pointed out by "the new york times" that are more than glitches. i wonder how you respond to ezra klein had an analysis, in part low rates available because insurance company created special plans that include fewer innetwork doctors and hospitals. what are you saying to americans has are worried about seeing specialists, prices more limited. is that the price have you to pay for lower cost health insurance and making it available to millions of americans? >> alex, i'm a recovering insurance commissioner. i did that job for eight years in kansas. what i know is in order to file a plan, these are, again, private insurance plans licensed by the states around the country, that's how insurance is regulated. federal government doesn't regulate, private, state

insurance commissioners do. you have to have a network, a number of providers, ob-gyns, neurologists, pediatricians, folks who deal with patients or you can't get your product license. some networks are broad, more and more to choose from, certainly more narrow. you will have access to specialty care needed. you will have access to hospitals. you will have access to prescription drugs, mental health services. substance abuse will be part of plans as well as lots of preventive care without co-pays. these are real, robust insurance products, and i think people will be incredibly pleased with the prices. we'll be incredibly pleased to have more pre-existing conditions lock them out. women will be thrilled not to be a pre-existing condition. companies will never be able to charge women more than men again just to buy the same insurance

product. this is all good news. >> i think those standards are long overdue. just as a last question to finish up here, i think part of the thing that may be concerning to americans is how much benefits vary from state to state. it's been pointed out the average consumer can choose from an average of 53 plans but if you live in new hampshire or virginia you have one insurer to choose from. i think if we're looking at that nationally, that can be a little disconcerting when you look how that of a difference it is from state to state. >> you're absolutely right. there's no question competition drives down cost. we have lots of companies for the first time ever. that's one of the reasons we have a great opportunity. even in states where there are a limited number of insurance companies, companies have to offer different levels of plans. many of those companies are

filing several different packages. but all the plans have to include essential health benefits. all of them will have hospital visits. all of them will have prescription drugs. all of them will have mental health services. they will all have preventive care without co-pay. what a consumer knows for the first time, they don't have to read 3,000 pages of fine print to find out what isn't covered. they will have a limit, consumers for the first time ever will have a limit on what their out of pocket costs are. they can't go bankrupt because they get sick and get charged exorbitant out of pocket costs. this is a real protected, it's long overdue, now the law. >> kathleen sebelius, thank you so much for your time and good luck on october 1st. >> thanks, alex. good to visit with you. >> after the break, breaking

news from united nations. the security council reached a deal on syria's chemical weapons stock. we'll have the details on that coming up next. p with farm grown veggies. just like yours. huh. [ male announcer ] and roasted white meat chicken. just like yours. [ male announcer ] you'll think it's homemade. i love this show. [ male announcer ] try campbell's homestyle soup. when i first felt the diabetic nerve pain, of course i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it progressed from there to burning like i was walking on hot coals... to like 1,000 bees that were just stinging my feet. i have a great relationship with my doctor... he found lyrica for me. [ female announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters,

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nbc news can now confirm that after weeks of negotiations and dispute, united states and welsch today, the permanent five members of the u.n. security council, france, russia, china, united states have reached an agreement on the syrian chemical weapons resolution. we'll bring you more details on that agreement as they come in. after his break, at his speech at the u.n. president obama made a case. we will discuss forever wars when author and professor joins us next on "now." [ female announcer ] we lowered her fever. you raise her spirits. we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year. we took care of your cold symptoms.

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investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i rolled my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the junk drawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away. no, no you can't come! [ male announcer ] e-trade. less for us. more for you. the danger for the world is that the united states after a decade of war rightly concerned

about issues back home, aware of the hostility that our engagement in the region has engendered throughout the muslim world may disengage. i believe such disengagement would be a mistake but i believe america is exceptional. in part because we have shown a willingness through the sacrifice of blood and treasure to stand up not only for our own narrow self interest but the interest of all. >> twelve years after the u.s. began bombing afghanistan, after a senator said he wasn't opposed to all wars just dumb wars and a decade after u.s. troops invade iraq, america is still at war and prospect of another battle looms large as we determine whether to be the world's policeman. in "breach of truth" veteran andrew basevich says it's undemocratic. without a draft, the gap between

the permanent soldiers to ho go to work and politicians that send them there has expanded. in the wake of vietnam, he writes, seeking to put catastrophic war behind them, the american people had devised or accepted a single crisp answer, not us. dispept as spectators they aggregated war and aspects. with people opting out, war became the exclusive province of the state. washington could do what it wanted and it did. professor of international relations at boston university andrew bass ovich, thank you for joining us. the president talked about american exceptionalism. he seemed to root thatli exceptionalism in the fact america is ready to spend blood

and treasure overseas. what did you think of his remarks? >> i didn't consider them to be especially helpful or especially accurate. it seems to me that we would do well to examine realistically and pragmatically our military engagement in the greater middle east which has really gone on now for over 30 years every since jimmy carter promulgated the carter doctrine back in 1980. since then we've been engaged in more or less continuous military operations. some are large scale like iraq and afghanistan. others on a lesser scale, always with the hope or expectation that if we just try a little bit harder, we'll bring stability to the region, we'll promote democratic values in the region and get people who live there to like us better. if we look back at that 30 plus year effort and ask ourselves what we've achieved, i'm afraid

the answer is not much and not much at great cost. so it's time for americans to think not about disengaging from the middle east or turning our back on the world, it's time for us to reconsider what american military power is good for and what it can achieve and what it cannot achieve. >> professor bacevich, i'm going to bring our panel in. everything the professor outlined seems to be if president obama was not president, he would agree with it. there was a strangeness to the position he's been forced to be in. he had no interest presumably in getting further involved in the middle east, elected to get us out of iraq and afghanistan, made all the steps to do so. the fact he's been given sort of the global crisis he's given is unfortunate and put him in an odd place in terms of his thesis about american power, i think. >> i think that's one reason why he's sort of been given to

drones. drones ar way to pinpoint american military power, one could argue, without the massive involvement the professor is talking about. i think even though he gave a speech in cairo about democratic movements and so forth and spoke at the united nations the way he did, i think this president has by and large not challenged the essential militarized stance of america in the world. the pentagon still counts a lot more in foreign policy most of the time than the state department does. that's changing a little bit now. i think diplomacy is in fashion again. for most of his presidency, he played it as it laid. he took the military power and used it for the most part. >> if we saw coming out of libya, infant hope there might be an obama doctrine that was essentially idealistic, extended

the values that he articulated in that u.n. speech, in syria, it's just been hard to detect any continuation of that at all. i think one thing howard said is interesting and deserves to be highlighted, we have a much broader array of projecting power overseas than with the military, we did 30 years ago president bacevich's long arc, techniques of mass surveillance we're finding out more and more about. >> which we're employing. >> we are avidly employing. one of the questions that you would love to see a man the most naturally progressive president we'll have in a while engage, what are implications of those technologies for military power. >> professor bacevich, i'd like to know what you think of, the drone question, is that a better alternative, blood and treasure,

certainly blood and alternative to boots on the ground. is that the answer? certainly there are a lot of folks that would say the drone strikes would not help us in terms of broader policy and diplomatic goals. i wonder as a veteran what you think of that alternative. it's an answer to what question? it is an answer to the question how can we use hard power while minimizing the costs that were entailed by invade the country and occupy it approach of george w. bush. but if the question is do drone strikes provide the basis for a coherent strategy, something that actually will advance our larger interests in the region, then i think the answer is emphatically no. simply reaching out and killing people is not a recipe for long-term political success. remember, war is a political

act. we need to think about how to advance our political interests. my basic argument, if we look at the history of the past 30 plus years, hard power ain't working. we need to try a different approach. president obama, i have to say, has surrounded himself with a bunch of very conventional thinkers. there is an absence of creativity, an unwillingness to think anew. not simply with regard to a specific crisis or specific issue like iran or the piece process but reconsideration of grand strategy, that's what's needed, what he and his administration are incapable of providing. >> i think president obama has a historic folk memory in his own mind about a generation of democrats being attacked from the right as somehow weak on defense. >> exactly. >> even though he wasn't the direct target of that, he's

correcting for past errors. i would also say that the fact that the iranians are complaining like heck about the sanctions. >> sanctions is evidence. >> is evidence there is another way. actually apparently the sanctions have really, really worked. >> professor, before we let you go, i wonder, you write about the idea of perpetual war and we keep doubling down on this. there are no signs -- we talk about the war on terror now as the forever war on this show. do you think the debate over whether or not to intervene in whatever limited fashion militarily in syria is evidence that maybe we are somehow coming to the conclusion of constantly being engaged in battle? >> i think the american people obviously said we don't want to go there. what remains to be seen is whether or not this pertains to one particular case or whether we're seeing a precedent. we're just going to have to see how that plays out. >> the book is "breach of

trust." professor bacevich, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> coming up, it's one thing when nra's executive vice president says the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. it is quite another when a pro gun group goes door to door offering free shotguns. that is exactly what's happening in florida and that's coming up next. [ female announcer ] your smile... every day you stain it... ♪ ...and stain it... and stain it. so every day, use crest 3d white toothpaste to remove up to 90% of surface stains in just 5 days. no wonder crest 3d white is the number one whitening brand. after all, every day counts. life opens up when you do. and now, crest 3d white has a sensitive side.

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the use of firearms to do what they do best, protect and survive. his argument good guys with guns will make the country safer is highly questionable at best. some parts of the country appear to be taking this advice seriously. they reported on a new armed citizens project that will give away free shotguns in orlando neighborhood. it is part of a campaign the group is calling deterring crime by empowering neighborhoods. >> it's been overwhelming. people love it in florida. >> the armed citizens project began by providing guns to residents in houston p the group says recipients must pass a federal background check and undergo safety training. their latest effort is set to roll up in the orlando neighborhood of sunshine gardens, 20 miles from sanford, florida, where the unarmed teenager trayvon martin was shot and killed by george zimmerman. zimmerman, of course, was found not guilty of second degree murder and the results of the case.

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the fight for marriage equality received a boost, george w. bush served as a witness at the same-sex marriage ceremony of two long time friends in kennebunkport, maine. i wanted to end on a positive note because we've been talking gloom and doom. i think george h.w. bush has said this is not a political statement but certainly the vision of a republican president being a witness at a gay wedding, we've come a long way, baby. >> the movement was not a movement at first, it was about relations between people. the argument all along has been when people know gay men and women, they will be more eager to support that. marriage equality moved through

senior, conservative ranks, that's what you see again and again. dick cheney, george bush. >> some talk about what this port ends for 2015. are we going to have candidates both of whom support marriage equality in 2016? >> yes, i think it will be. it's been a remarkable change in the last 20 years. people have fought and died for it. i think the battle is won. >> you think the battle is won. when you look at the numbers gop support at 17%, 2013 at 29%. >> i don't think you're going to see a presidential republican nominee who is opposed to pretty close to if not all the way to full marriage rise for same sex. >> certainly if we're talking about base building, ben, to have a broad coalition to get young people involved, this

would seem to be -- are there no brainers left in our -- this would seem to be one where it's quite obvious? >> it's the way to seem honored for a party that has not. >> we have to leave it there, my friend, on this positive note. thank you to ben and howard for joining me today. that's all for now. joy reed in, melissa harris-perry and others. all that plus a cameo appearance with snl cast members indicate mckennon and bobby moin ham. live coverage tomorrow. "andrea mitchell reports" next. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts?

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