leaders of congress and the president will face off at the white house. ♪ day two of the government shutdown. >> this is a political war. >> there does not appear to be an escape route. >> 800,000 federal workers are in the cross-hairs. >> you don't get to extract a ransom for doing your job. >> democrats think if they win with a shutdown -- >> most americans realize the government shutdown has impact on the daily life. >> the situation is not as dire. >> maybe in your world it's not the end of the world. >> it's like a double gun they're holding. >> one faction of one party have shut down major parts of the government because they didn't like one law. >> a bit of a bumpy ride. >> this is a fight right now between republicans. >> we haven't had a big debate about obama care, really, since it passed. >> my goodness, they won't even sit down and have a discussion. >> i repeat. reckless and irresponsible. >> this is life or death stuff.

♪ good afternoon. we begin with shutdown, day two, digging in. and in the hunt for a better october, it appears that this may be developing into an even bigger cataclysmic standoff, unless republicans give up their reckless approach to governing. in just over an hour, the president will host leaders of the house and senate it at the white house, where according to his advisers, the president will urge the hapless house speaker to pass a clean bill to reopen government and raise the debt ceiling. in other words, do your job, pay the bills, grow up. the president will probably put it a bit more diplomatically, and we'll have fresh comments from him, straight ahead. from his interview this afternoon with cnbc's john harwood. but it's unclear how willing the speaker is to listen to reason. senator harry reid says he had a

candid conversation with mr. boehner, just this afternoon. >> my message to him was very simple. we have to stop playing these foolish games that keep coming to us from the other side of the capitol. it's about doing the right thing for the american people. they expect us to act like adults. >> and in very grown-up fashion, the majority leader sent speaker boehner a letter, with a reasonable offer. i propose that you allow this joint resolution to pass, reopening the government. and i commit to naming conferees to a budget conference as soon as the government reopens. speaker boehner reportedly told mr. reid that he will only discuss government funding with, surprise, surprise, changes to the affordable care act. meanwhile, house republican leaders, minus speaker boehner, held a press conference this afternoon, highlighting their triumphant cause to keep parks and memorials open during the shutdown. >> we are here today to say

these memorials, the washington monument, the world war ii memorial, the smithsonian museum, all ought to be open. >> yes, cantor and company have chosen the war memorials as their career de occur against the shutdown they themselves are inflicting upon the nation. and they plan to vote on a set of their cherry picked funding choices. national parks and museums, veterans' programs, d.c. government operations, the national institutes of health and the national guard. and while that list is growing, there's quite a lot they didn't mention there. for example, as many as 19,000 children in 11 states at risk of losing access to head start. protesters at the capitol tried to draw attention to that cause. similarly, they didn't mention nutrition benefits for roughly 9 million pregnant women and new mothers now on hold. but rnc chair reince priebus did arrive with urgent word that the

republican national committee will pay to keep the world war ii memorial open for a movement month. >> i have come here to announce that the republican national committee has put aside enough money to hire five security personnel, full-time, to keep the world war ii memorial open. >> he notably did not announce that he will pay for children with cancer to get access to clinical trials that they're now being denied. but i guess mr. priebus prefers war memorials to living children. let's get right to our panel in washington. political strategist angela wry, and in new york, krystal ball, and mckay cop ins, political editor of buzz feed. welcome to you. krystal, the national institutes of health, i discovered earlier today, is calling the parents of children with cancer, telling

them that their last hope, an experimental treatment, will now not be allowed, because the government is shut down. i've heard for the last ten hours conservatives and republicans saying it's no big deal. you've got children. i've got children. what possesses people to do that and say this is no big deal when children terminally ill children, are not going to receive the possibility of treatment? >> it's really unconscionable. and unbelievable. but we saw this same thing with the sequester cuts. they were totally unmoved by the real harm that was done to programs like head start and programs like what you're talking about. and the only thing -- meals on wheels. the only thing i can come up with is that they live in a totally different world. so they don't see the people, they don't see the impact of these cuts. they don't feel the impact of the shutdown. and all they really care about is what's in their own backyard. the world war ii memorial, it is important that it be there for our war heroes to go and visit. >> of course. >> they care about that.

they care about the d.c. government, which is one of the things they proposed reopening, because they live there. okay? so it's a very self-centered vision of what's important in government. >> it's unbelievable. mckay, the great reince priebus, we just saw him there offering rnc funds, $150,000. do you think it would help if mothers on wic support stormed a memorial to draw attention to their needs? >> it certainly wouldn't hurt. i think that, you know, in every time there is a crisis like this in washington, there are certain events that become flash points. for some reason, the war memorial may not be the most important -- probably isn't the most important thing going on here but it was the flashpoint and yesterday republicans and conservatives thought maybe this was something that could turn public opinion or start to turn the narrative in their favor. but i think when reince priebus went out there after the white house already announced that, look, these war memorials are going to be open now for, you

know, war veterans to come and visit from now on. he still went out there and offered the money. i think that was a little bit of an overreach and i think that a lot of even political observers who were paying attention to the game here are going to think that was probably a bad decision. >> can i just jump in briefly? because i have spoken with a few veterans who are actually very disgusting and frustrated with the way they have been used as some sort of a political point to grandstand. so i think that part of this is really disappointing too. >> angela, cnbc's john harwood, our colleague, interviewed the president this afternoon. we've just got a clip. i'd like you to take a listen to what the president had to say. >> during the course of my presidency, i have bent over backwards to work with the republican party. and have purposely kept my rhetoric down. i think i'm pretty well-known for being a calm guy. sometimes people think i'm too calm. and am i exasperated?

absolutely i'm exasperated, because this is entirely unnecessary. >> angela, no doubt he's exasperated. but how long will republicans go on with this ridiculous and reckless behavior? >> well, martin, you know what's really scary is, i really don't know the answer to this. if you were to ask me a couple weeks ago, i would have thought, okay, maybe a couple hours of a shutdown, just so they could reach agreement. that is not happening here. you have folks who literally are boycotting and they see that as their responsibility to the american people. i have no idea who it is that they're even talking to, because if they go beyond the borders of their gerrymander congressional districts, it's very clear that the american people at large don't support shutting down the government to protest obama care. or the affordable care act, which is also ironic, because people don't seem to know they're the same thing nowadays. the other thing is, that is tremendously frustrating, initially i was saying, you know, these folks are just doing this because, you know, they were elected to shut down government and they ran on that platform. but martin, i really think that

some of these folks don't know any better. i don't think they understand that obama care has been funded. i don't think they understand that people were literally able to go online yesterday and sign up. i really don't think they know any better. and that's why their constituents don't. >> right. mckay, how long will it be before the president is accused of being an angry black man, because he said he is exasperated? >> well, i won't be making that accusation. >> you won't be. that's why you're on this broadcast. it's not going to be long, though, is it? >> no, look, i think the politics of this are extremely fraught. you even saw earlier today harry reid asked about the cancer patients and he made a gaffe saying, well, why would we even want to move things around just to fund that one element of the government. look, we're going to see a lot -- the temperature is going to continue to rise, the longer this goes on. a lot of people thought this was only going to last a few hours. it's lasted two days now and there's no end in sight. and i think we're going to see a lot of lawmakers making bad

comments going forward. >> krystal, the president has said that he is damn well exasperated. they've got this meeting, what, in about an hour and fifteen minutes. do you think they're going to accomplish anything? >> i am unfortunately quite pessimistic at this point. because i don't see where the pressure is going to come from on the 30 to 40 legislators. >> but, krystal, isn't the problem here that we went through the sequester, and basically republicans immunized us and argued it had no effect. >> right. >> now we're in the government shutdown, we've got people like ted cruz saying it's just like a weekend. >> right. >> no problem. so why don't we smash the whole credit worthiness of the united states in two weeks' time. let's go for the debt ceiling! >> i think that's exactly right. i think they were emboldened by the first debt ceiling negotiation and now have sequester cuts as sort of the new normal. and i think if there is a deal on the cr, they'll be emboldened by that and i think democrats are very aware of this dynamic that they can't give anything on the cr or else they'll just be

further emboldened to take the debt ceiling hostage and then it never ends. because let's not forget. we're talking about a six-week cr. we have this again in six weeks. >> yeah, we do. how about that, angela? we have it again in six weeks, just in time for small businesses preparing for christmas. that will be great, won't it? >> no, it actually would be terrible, martin. and i think you know that, i'm saying that facetiously. but i think the reality of this situation is to krystal's last point. the fact that we're now looking at sequestration and saying, okay, we'll just -- we'll fund the government at these levels. democrats are doing that just to get something passed? is highly problematic. we have been operating on this continuing resolution after continuing resolution. and the congress hasn't taken up the specific appropriations measures that they're supposed to, and on top of all of that, policy writers are now attached. it's common place to defund obama care. it's common place to challenge women's abortion rights. it's all of these things have become norm. and they're not normal. this -- this cannot become the

new normal. >> final word to you. >> you know, republicans are now proceeding with the same strategy they used with the sequester cuts, which was we'll fund the parts that we like. every time something comes up that is, you know, problematic, we'll fund that. and democrats aren't falling for it this time. big factor. >> thank you all so much. >> thanks, martin. coming up, the real people and the real benefits of the affordable care act. we'll talk to one american standing there in the background whose personal story was shared by the president yesterday. plus, beyond the glitches and train wreck hyperbole, we'll get some truth from the secretary herself, kathleen sebelius. stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] pepcid® presents: the burns family bbq. guys, you took tums® a couple hours ago. why keep taking it if you know your heartburn keeps coming back? that's how it works. you take some tums®.

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there are over 41 million people who stand to benefit this fall with new health insurance options coming. >> obama care is bad for america. obama care is more like obama doesn't care. >> see, you were so much better than them at reducing complicated ideas into meaningless phrases. >> well, as we like to say in the conservative movement, we can explain it to you, we just can't understand it for you. >> well, that's very condescending. yeah. >> the affordable care act is here and it's moving forward as planned. republicans have tried running against it, they have repeatedly and repeatedly tried to repeal it. they have even provoked a government shutdown to sabotage it. now, imagine that while all of this is going on, you, you are suffering with multiple scleros sclerosis, burdened with the unimaginable monthly payments of $1200 per month, and were

counting on this new law to literally change your life. >> a few years ago, amanda barrett left her job in new york to take care of her parents and for a while had temporary insurance that covered her multiple sclerosis. when it expired, many insurers wouldn't cover her because of her ms. she ended up paying $1200 a month. that's nowhere near affordable. starting today, she can get covered for much less. >> and i'm delighted to say we are joined by the very person the president was talking about in his remarks yesterday, amanda barrett, welcome. we're also joined by health and human services secretary, kathleen sebelius. welcome to you, madam secretary. >> thank you. >> amanda, how significant is the affordable care act to the ongoing issues of your own health at this time? >> well, i don't want to exaggerate, but it's kind of a life or death issue. basically, i do infusion once a month that costs $5,000.

and if i don't do it, i get more lesions in my brain. so, you know, had to make a choice. when i was signing up for health care, a plan i could not see the doctors who keep me healthy, $1200 or no treatment at all, heading toward, you know, a wheelchair. >> and what is the difference, if i might ask you, between what you anticipated spending, $5,000 and what you will now be spending? >> i am thinking it's in the ballpark of $300 a month. >> wow. now, madam secretary, we've heard some histrionic and hyper bollic statements about this law. texas governor rick perry described it as a criminal act. others say it's worse than the end of the world. what do you say to those hoping that the affordable care act is, in fact, the first indication of the end of the world? >> well, i just hope that no one is listening to that kind of nonsense.

this is the law of the land. passed by both houses of congress, signed by the president of the united states, upheld by the supreme court. and the president ran and won re-election. and a lot of the debate was around this law. the best news is, martin, now we have health care.gov, the website up and running. people can find out for themselves. that's what i ask them to do. go to the website, pull up your state, look at the plans, side by side. if you don't have affordable coverage or don't have coverage at all, if you're like amanda who had coverage with her job and then had to leave that job and found herself in the individual market, we know that 6 out of 10 people in amanda's situation will find a policy for under $100 a month. less than the cost of a cell phone bill. >> it's incredible. >> you bet. >> and yet you know that nearly 5 million people visited the site yesterday. but many received messages about the system being down, or they were unable to create an account. given that this law was signed

into law three years ago, do you accept that these glitches of have only fueled the critics of this legislation? >> well, i can tell you that even though we have been building this very important and complicated website system, the volume of the last 24 hours exceeded anyone's expectations. we have five times the number of visitors in 24 hours, as the most busy time ever at medicare.gov, a website that's been around for a long time, with 50 million benefit niche areas. so we were planning on a lot of people being interested. we had no idea of quite how many. and i can tell you also that we have an incredible team, martin, in place who is -- made changes last night, wait times are much less. call center is much faster. >> so improvements are -- so improvements are being made, even in 24 hours. >> as we speak, there is a team on the ground who is actually

making it. we want it to be as user-friendly and as easy as possible. and that's going to be part of the feature of this. side by side plans. you can see what you qualify for. you know what kind of tax credit you'll have. and people will have, i think, a very good shopping experience. >> amanda, when you see all the votes that have taken place in the house against the affordable care act, something like 42, the attempts to delay it, the misinformation about it, do you think that those people either don't understand what you're going through, or simply don't care? >> i have to say, yesterday was a surreal day. you know, i'm standing here, you know, like next to the president. and i'm getting health care. i'm getting affordable health care and the people who are around me who have terrible stories, like heart-breaking stories, they're getting health care. and then down the road, you know, i have friends and family

and neighbors who work for the government, and they're getting pink slips. like, that to me is cruel. that is such a cruel calculation. it makes no sense. and i talked to people and a lot of us are angry about that. >> you say you're angry. just expand on that. what do you mean? >> well, it seems not fair. like, i feel like one of the basic values that we have as americans is fairness. and it doesn't make sense. like, the people i met yesterday, none of us want to be sick, right? none of us choose to -- want to choose between a hospital and being an active member of society. i'm trying to start a business. that's where i want to put my money, that's where i want to put my time. and, you know, so the health care is nonnegotiable for me. >> amanda barrett, thank you so much for joining us and we do wish you well as you continue to battle multiple sclerosis. and, of course, madam secretary, kathleen sebelius, thank you so much, as well. >> great to be with you. coming up, before the tea party and the ted cruz caucus, chris matthews helps us

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but he can check with the kitchen. >> get into your survival bunker. >> i know for you potted meat and tang is shorthand for [ bleep ] you won't possibly imagine eating, unless there was a catastrophe. but for the people affected by the government shutdown, it's the [ bleep ] they eat that they can no longer afford. >> right now, i am terrified. >> sob stories are going to start coming out. >> they had to live on what most of us live on -- >> her new book, "the romney family table" sharing home-cooked recipes. welcome. >> we have to make our groceries extend for two, three weeks instead of the one week we have. >> the controversy with obama care, what are your thoughts, wendy, when you look? >> well, it's frustrating. >> we're already down to the bare minimum. >> we would not be in a shutdown. >> last time government shutdown, we in newt gingrich and bill clinton going at it. >> can you remember a time in your lifetime when a major political party was just sitting around begging for america to

fail? >> at least they were going at it directly at each other. >> we believe it's time for the president to get serious about balancing this budget. should be enough to show the white house it's time to get serious. >> there is nothing to negotiate with. >> harry reid thinks the house republicans will blink. we're not ready to blink. >> this is the house republicans and the tea party people saying -- >> we're not blinking. we're taking no-doze. >> have to stand up to that, no matter what the consequences. >> i do. >> let's get right to it. our guest today is chris matthews, the dean of this network and the host of "hard ball," of course, and author of the brand-new book "tip and the gipper: when politics worked" all about the relationship between president ronald reagan, of course and house speaker, tip o'neill. good afternoon, chris. your book is typically compelling. we saw bill clinton advising the president about how to handle this government shutdown. bill clinton himself had to do something similar in '96. >> and he emerged stronger afterward. so do you think this president should follow clinton's lead?

>> well, he has to. and i think that the -- it's almost like you read about world war i, but in barbara tuchman, the guns of august, how both sides miscalculated. i think the republicans miscalculated. there's no way that barack obama, the man, not just the president, can give away his baby. he created health care after 50 years of the democrats. and some republicans like nixon and teddy roosevelt, he got it done right through the system. he passed it. it's the law. if he gives away a law or gives away a foot of it or leg of it or arm of it, he has lost his credibility. and he knows it. i think that, martin, explains his side ofzen-like calmness the last few days. sometimes he looks nervous. he doesn't look nervous anymore. he knows he has to fight. >> isn't the fundamental difference today, as compared with the subject of your book, tip and reagan, that these two individuals actually represented their parties. >> yes. >> whereas speaker john boehner, who does he represent? >> and not only that -- >> who is he leading? >> that's nthe problem.

tip o'neill as the speaker, when he moved his gut, his essence, he moved the party, because he was the essence of the party. he was a typical, if you will, liberal democrat. he was a classic one. he cared about poor people, about old people, he cared about domestic programs. and he just fit the mold so well when he moved, they moved. and reagan, to his credit, was a classic conservative. in fact, the leader of the modern conservative movement. so they didn't have to worry about checking back to make sure what this crowd was thinking. >> or ringing up ted cruz and saying he's the real speaker, what should i say. >> have you noticed something about cruz, how he has sort of faded the last couple days. once you set the fuse, once you put the bomb under the bridge -- >> i think he has issued statements today already. >> it seems like he's letting boehner take the heat. that's what i think. >> maybe. while tip and ronald reagan had deep disagreements, there was a mutuality of respect. >> yes. on the government and how it's needed to work. >> but even as personal individuals, they prayed together. >> yeah, well, at one point they did, that's for sure.

>> isn't the real issue here that there are people in the republican party who still regard this president as illegitimate? they nullify the very fact that he is the president. >> you saw that fellow he had on from texas. i said just repeat after me, baby talk. this president was elected legitimately. he wouldn't do it. you know why? whatever he thinks -- the game he is playing, obviously, 5 or 10 or 20% of his people back home won't believe it and they'll give him hell for it. oh, you sold us out, you said he was legitimate. you notice the leaders of the tea party, not cruz, it's the guy at the next meeting you're going to. the next town meeting in the back row yelling his head off. you traitor, you sold us out. that's what they're afraid. and boehner ain't the leader, even lightly. >> the president has just given an interview to our colleague, john harwood, at cnbc. let's take alisten to what the president said. >> sure. >> what democrats have already said they're willing to do is to

vote for reopening the government at funding levels that the republicans have established. and that the democrats don't like. >> chris, in less than an hour, the president is going to be head-to-head with house and senate representatives. how is that meeting going to pan out? >> nothing, because the president cannot give an arm or leg or a head away from that baby, health care. and that seems to be the only interest the republicans have. >> so what are we into now, shutdown for months? >> in the old days of tip and reagan, they fought like brothers. but they didn't demand something of the other person they knew they couldn't get. you know, if it's 7 and 9, you give them 8. it's a deal. you don't go to a guy and say give me your wife, give me your kid. that's not negotiating. that's blackmail or worse oh. >> yeah. >> and i think that's the total difference. they went after obama on the one thing he cannot give away. he can do a corporate tax change of some kind, reform of the corporate tax. he doesn't want to do it. he can do entitlement. >> medical devices? >> i wouldn't give them an inch until it's time for the final deal. i would give them the deal if it meant the debt ceiling.

but they cannot come back in two weeks with more blackmail. you've got to cut the big deal and they've got to shut up and say this is the deal we accept, no more, you know, screwing around. >> but isn't the problem -- >> by the way, they could do it. if boehner would say, look, here's something, we've got our piece of action here, $30 billion we're taking out of this bill. it may hurt a little. but we haven't crippled it, but took a shot at it. and then obama can say, look, it's too important. we can't -- you know, default on the national debt and he can say, i don't like doing this, but i'm going to do it. but then you've got to get a majority in the republican party or at least half of them, to go along with it. that takes leadership. >> it does. here's the problem. don't you think there is a problem with a pattern of behavior, learned behavior. we do that with our children, right? on the debt ceiling 2011. the republicans thought they had made some progress. even though the credit bo worthiness of the nation was downgraded. >> terrible. >> right. then we had the sequester, oh, no big deal. ted cruz said yesterday, the government shutdown is just like a weekend. why won't they take us to

default on the debt ceiling in two weeks? because they have learned that this kind of behavior, it just doesn't provoke any kind of attack on them. >> because there's something even more pro murderial going on and it's frightening. if you refuse to accept sign scientific fact on evolution, on climate change, the fact is, the climate has changed. facts they don't accept. they believe that -- >> 56% of the republicans in the house don't believe that. >> believe in the market. you don't believe that the united states reneges on its -- look, i've said this, i think it captures it. suppose one airline said we have a 95% safety record, you would go to the one that had a 100% record and for 100 years, we've had a 100% record on our credit. if you borrow from the united states credit -- if we borrow from you, rather, they give you paper, tea bonds, treasury bills, savings bonds, you will get the money and it's never not happened, okay? what happens if it does happen? we don't get the money. we will have a 95% safety record -- except for 2013, that

time. do you think that the chinese billionaires are going to invest at the same rate? do you think the paper boy will want a savings bond? we will no longer be as good as our name. this country is ready to give away, besides self government, the most important thing we have. you know, our economic credibility. that we will pay the debt. >> absolutely. thanks so much. >> and by the way, that's the science they won't accept, even. that's the crazy -- you hear these guys -- that doesn't really mean that. >> i know. chris, thank you so much. >> thank you, martin. a reminder, his new book, "tip and the gipper: when politics worked" and, of course, you can always catch my friend and colleague at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, with the president meeting with speaker boehner in about an hour from now, we'll bring in a member of the house democratic leadership to see if either side is ready to bundle. budge. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts?

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[ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. our goal here is to cut spending. it's not to shut down the government. there should be no conversation about shutting the government down. that's not the goal here. >> that, of course, was then. today the house speaker seems in no hurry to reverse the current state of affair. in fact, with republicans moments away from votes determined to pass budget resolutions, bit by bit, speaker boehner seems determined to do anything and everything apart from passing the one bill that would end this shutdown. mr. boehner and his fellow congressional leaders are less than an hour away from a meeting with the president. however, in his cnbc interview this afternoon, the president made it absolutely clear that the man holding this country hostage is speaker boehner. >> the only thing that's stopping it is the john boehner right now has not been willing

to say no to a faction of the republican party that are willing to burn the house down because of an obsession over my health care initiative. >> joining us now, the number two democrat in the house, congressman steny hoyer, of maryland. good afternoon, sir. >> hi, martin. good to be with you. >> thank you for joining us. the house gop voted on funding for just three areas of the budget, including national parks, veterans and today the list has grown to include medical research. is this the new republican methodology, find out what the public finds most disgusting and disagreeable and then vote on that alone? is that the way they do things? >> i don't think there's any doubt that the republicans are wasting time, and not opening up the government for all the people of our country. and these bills take little snippets, as you point out, martin, that they think may be politically controversial, and deal with them while at the same time leaving women, infants and

children unable to access nutritional programs. closing down head start classrooms. laying off 70% of the people at cia, so important for our national security and safety. what we ought to be doing is pass the bill that the united states senate passed that opens up the government. a little bit of comment you said, see whether the parties will agree. very frankly, the democrats have said, the republicans have said, they don't want to shut down government. fine. republicans have said the level that they have been willing to fund government at is $986 billion. we said we will take your number. and they won't take yes for an answer. if, in fact, the speaker would put that bill on the floor, it would pass. there is little doubt in my mind that it would pass. and we're seeing republican after republican say in the press this is lunacy. this makes no sense.

we need to open the government, and i'm hopeful pretty soon that the speaker will see the wisdom and come to, frankly, the senses of putting this bill on the floor that will open up government. then, martin, the president and the senate and the house democrats have said, look, then we'll sit down for the next six weeks, because it will be a six-weeks opening of the government. we'll sit down and try to discuss our differences. they have been unwilling to do that for six months. we have been asking them to go to conference. >> i know. >> on their budget. >> 18 times in seven months you have tried and they have turned you down. and do you know what happened today? the reince priebus, chair of the rnc, has announced his organization will pay to keep the world war ii memorial open. how about that? i mean, why doesn't he pay for the 50,000 places that are about to be lost on head start? why doesn't he agree to pay for those children who have cancer who the national institutes of

health is calling their parents today and saying because of the government shutdown, their children cannot enter an experimental program that might extend their life. why doesn't he do something like that? >> and we know the reason for that. it's all about optics and spin, not about substance. not about keeping the people's government open. not about serving the american people. whether they be children, whether they be adults, whether they be veterans. whether they be people on social security. yes, the checks will go out, but there is nobody to service the checks. and it shouldn't be just a little slice of this and a little slice of that. it ought to be saying, look, we understand, because both of us have said this. nobody intends to shut down government. that's what they say. the effect of their actions has been exactly the opposite. to shut down government. that's what usa today called the shutdown party. i believe that's accurate. if we both agree we don't want to shut down government, there is a bill that we will both

agree on that will do exactly that. it will open up government, but all they're doing is politics of what they think is -- will resonate with the american people. the american people, by 72% think this is a dumb policy. >> everybody sees through it. representative steny hoyer, sir, thank you so much. >> thank you very much, martin. coming up, a live report from the white house. as the president, as i said, prepares to meet congressional leaders. plus, more on the president's exclusive interview late this afternoon. stay with us. wall street has been pretty calm about this. the reaction i would say generally speaking has been washington fighting, washington posturing, ya-da, ya-da, ya-da. is that right way for them to look at it? >> no, i think this time is different. i think they should be concerned. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose.

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in the next hour, the president is expected to meet with parties, to discuss the impasse over the government shutdown. however, in an interview with cnbc, the president made it clear, he's not ready to make the vile decision they have put before him. >> i am exasperated with the idea that unless i say to 20 million people, you can't have health insurance, these folks will not reopen the government. that is irresponsible. >> joining us now from the white house is nbc news' kristen welker. kristen, the president, as i have said, meets with leaders of both parties in something like 35 minutes. what sense do you have of how the white house is likely to approach this meeting? >> reporter:el with, white house press secretary jay carney has said what this meeting won't be, and that is a negotiating session. i expect president obama to reiterate his stance, which is that he is not going to negotiate reopening the government using his health care

law. he's not going to negotiate over his health care law in terms of increasing the debt limit. he's going to call on them to do these things without any strings attached. and to help him make his argument, treasury secretary jack lew will be there to talk about the economic impacts of a prolonged shutdown and also of a government default. the vice president will also be there. martin, this hour, both sides continue to dig in their heels. there is no sign that republicans are going to give up this effort to defund and delay president obama's health care law. so the big question mark, will this meeting actually move these negotiating processes forward? it's not clear that that's going to happen. will it break the stalemate? it's not clear that this meeting will do that. however, of course, that is the hope, because with each passing day, the public ire continues to grow, and, of course, as you pointed out, a lot of people are suffering right now, including people who are concerned about how they're going to make ends meet, because they're not going to get paid while this

government shutdown continues. >> kristen, this is the second important meeting of the day, because the president has already sat down with some of the biggest names in finance. let me play something he said during that portion of the conversation. take a listen. >> what i have to remind people is, that what we're debating right now is keeping the government open for two months. we would then be going through this exact same thing in the middle of christmas shopping season, which i don't think many businesses would be interested in. >> the president deliberately using understatement, kristen, but that is a disastrous outcome, isn't it, another fight in eight weeks? >> reporter: it is. and i think the white house wants to prevent that from happening, and i think the president, though, is just not going to give in on the fact that this is his signature piece of legislation. this health care law. and the fact that when you look at it, martin, he has the polls on his side. and you also have a republican party that's divided. so i don't expect him to give in on this fight.

i do expect, possibly, to see the debt ceiling and some type of continuing resolution resolve all at once to prevent that type of scenario he just talked about. >> let's hope so. nbc's kristen welker. thank you, kristen. we'll be right back in a moment. - who gets the allstate safe driving bonus check. rock beats scissors! [ chuckles ] wife beats rock. and with two checks a year, everyone wins. [ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year for driving safely. only from allstate. call 866-906-8500 now. [ dennis ] zach really loves his new camera. problem is...this isn't zach. it's a friend of a friend who was at zach's party and stole his camera. but zach's got it covered... with allstate renters insurance. [ female announcer ] protect your valuables for as low as $4 a month when you add renters insurance to your allstate auto policy. call 866-906-8500 now. what are you doing? we're switching car insurance. why? because these guys are the cheapest. why? good question. because a cut-rate price could mean cut-rate protection. you should listen to this guy. [ female announcer ] with allstate

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i made some missteps -- i switched to some weird bargain detergent instead of tide... but no matter how much i poured, our clothes were missing that tide clean we were used to. so i'm back with tide... and i'm back on top of the world. that's mytide. now, to clear the air. and as the nation slumps into the second day of this shutdown, we're at least grateful that one outstanding issue has now been resolved. because today we are finally able to draw a line under the deceit and she chicago contain re by speaker boehner who has said the sole interest of the republicans is the issue of employment. >> as you know, house republicans have been focused on economic growth and jobs since day one. >> oh, really? you could have fooled us, because here are some facts. this republican-provoked shutdown is going to wipe at least $300 million off our economic output every single day. and a survey conducted by an

important business school finds that almost half of employers with less than $5 million in annual revenue say that a shutdown of more than three months will reverse their plan to create new jobs. but none of this is new to us. do you remember what happened during that first episode of republican hostage-taking back in 2011 over raising the debt ceiling? they were so focused on jobs that here's what happened. consumer confidence collapsed. and look at the figures from monthly job growth. it was disastrous for the economy. detrimental to the recovery, and the nation's credit rating was downgraded. but, according to speaker boehner -- >> house republicans have been focused on economic growth and jobs since day one. >> and then, of course, we had the ludicrous sequester, which imposed a series of brutal spending cuts. and here's another incredible truth. the congressional budget office said that if the sequester was cancelled, it would boost employment by up to 1.6 million

new jobs for the fiscal year 2014. so guess what republicans just tried to do? believe it or not, speaker john boehner proposed making the sequester cuts permanent. with all their disastrous effects on jobs and the economy. but, of course -- >> house republicans have been focused on economic growth and jobs since day one. >> nothing could be further from the truth. so let's be done with this steaming pile of garbage about being focused on economic growth and jobs. because from the debt ceiling to the sequester to the current government shutdown, republicans have not done a single thing to promote job growth. in fact, speaker boehner and his caucus have deliberately sabotaged the economy. and all because they couldn't get their hands on the one job that they really wanted. thanks so much for