what is in this trans-pacific partnership. the good, the bad, and i understand there's a whole lot of ugly. i'm ed shultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. >> how are you tonight and good to be here following you up. and thanks to you for watching. tonight's lead, republicans asleep at the wheel. while millions of americans are hurting because of the government shutdown, gop lawmakers are taking a relaxed approach to the crisis. take a look. >> it's about trying to do what's right for the whole country. [ snoring ] >> yes, that's north carolina republican george holden taking a quick snooze. he looks nice and cozy up there.

just goes to show the republicans who caused this shutdown are really earning their pay. just ask north dakota's kevin cramer who was asked if he would give up his pay during the shutdown. >> i'm working to earn the salary that the people pay me to do the job. i don't get into those sort of stunty things. i'm not going to do it. >> sure. republicans got 800,000 federal workers furloughed. but you wouldn't want to do anything stunty. and nebraska's lee terry was even more clear. when asked if he'd keep his pay, he said dang straight. but what about giving back pay to furloughed government workers once the shutdown is over? one of the biggest culprits behind this mess, ted cruz, refused to answer that question. >> the people who are missing,

who are awol are the democrats. >> should they retroactively be paid or not? >> the democrats are refusing to compromise. >> yes or no do you support retroactive back pay? >> i support the house to fund the government. and at the same time to prevent the enormous harm obama care is inflicting on millions of americans. >> is this a yes, no, or a maybe? >> i'm not answering your question. i know you want to ask that hypothetical and you're entitled to ask it. >> it's not a hypothetical to the people who aren't getting paid. but that non-answer wasn't as bad as the way fellow texan randy norginbauer treated a park ranger. >> how can you look at them and say i'll deny them access? >> it's difficult. >> park service should be ashamed. >> i'm not ashamed. >> you should be.

>> ask those questions to the people who aren't passing the budgets. that's who you should ask questions too. she's doing her job. i'm a veteran out of work. >> the reason you are, mr. reed is because -- >> no, it's because the government won't do its job and pass a budget. >> that's right. he thinks the park ranger should be ashamed that she has to block people from a memorial that republicans closed down. that's got me to thinking. the starting pay for a park ranger job is just $45,000 a year. while members of congress earn $174,000 a year. the park ranger that should be ashamed, all you can say to them is they should be ashamed? enough's enough. 73% of americans say the top priority in congress should be getting the government running again.

that's why republicans are frantically pushing bills to fund certain government programs. but not others. it's a farce. republicans are still holding the u.s. government hostage. do they really think the american people would be satisfied that they're releasing a few hostages at a time? joining me now dana milbank and clarence page. thank you for being here. dana, i know we only caught one republican congressman sleeping on the job, but doesn't it seem like they all are? >> i think that's the larger issue here, and you could forgive anybody going to sleep while louie gohmert is giving one of his winders on the floor. but the real problem is republicans have gotten themselves into a box. you saw ted cruz, he wants to keep this being about obama care. look, this isn't about obama care anymore. it's about how the government

got shut down. and the polls are showing no surprise the republicans are being blamed for that. the problem is they don't really have a way out other than doing these sort of silly bills to open one thing at a time. it is like the who's going to be allowed into the lifeboat. it only shows the parts of the government that these guys don't actually care about. the problem is they don't really have a way out of this now. but maybe if they close their eyes and rest for a few minutes, they'll come up with one. >> you know, clarence, we've seen a lot of ugliness toward federal workers this week. just listen to what fox business news host stewart varney said about workers getting back pay. >> zung the federal workers when this ends are deserving of their back pay or not? >> that is a loaded question, isn't it? you want my opinion? this is president obama's shutdown. he is responsible for shutting this thing down. he's taken an entirely political decision here. no. i don't think they should get

their back pay, frankly. i really don't. i want to punish these people. sorry to say that. that's what i want to do. >> he wants to punish federal workers. but this situation is hurting people all across the country. look at these headlines in san francisco. some get paid, some don't. in gainesville, florida, head start programs are ending. in arkansas, veterans worried about getting their disability benefits. clarence, do conservatives care that all these people are getting punished? >> varney gives conservatives a bad name. no question about it. this is not new. he not only goes after people who are on welfare and getting unemployment benefits, but he goes after government workers. people who are full-time hard working americans. he just shows utter contempt for them saying they're living off our backs and blah blah blah. who delivers his mail, i wonder.

it's just bizarre. but it's the most brazen example of catering to a small minority of grumps out there who respond enough to build up his viewership ratings. but it's damaging to the country and to the republican party. frankly, they don't really know what to do with all this mess. >> and really talking to themselves. i mean, because maybe they're not getting out of washington enough to understand the real pain it's causing. and dana, republicans are beginning to understand, it seems, how unpopular this is. because today eric cantor laid out some of the piecemeal funding bills that they voted on today or will vote on tomorrow. listen to this. >> today we're going to vote to open fema. and the national weather service as we witness a growing storm in the gulf. and we're also going to vote to provide nutrition services for women and children in poverty.

we plan to also later next week open up head start. >> now, this is a complete joke. republicans have voted to cut all of these programs in the past. dana, it seems a little funny that eric cantor is all of a sudden concerned about head start. doesn't it seem a little strange to you? >> well, the reduce budget from earlier this year already eliminated 57,000 head start positions and another 19,000 under the shutdown. so he wants to go back to his already reduced level. i think what you're seeing here is the original list of those programs they wanted to save, they're saying let's have the monuments, the troops, the veterans. nothing about poor pregnant women and children, head start, the centers for disease control. basically the whole idea was to protect those preferred parts of the government. not the ones that say regulate

or rein in business. certainly no bills to keep the irs functioning. that's the best they can do. they don't have to get out of washington to see how funny this sounds. varney, do the prifrs deserve to be punished too? >> president obama visited a lunch spot giving a discount to federal employees that this particular spot, what it does. and he talked about the republican position. let's listen. >> when it comes to negotiations, i've said i'm happy to have negotiations with the republicans and speaker boehner on a whole range of issues. but we can't do it with a gun held to the head of the american people. >> is this message the republicans are holding the

country hostage, is it getting through to the average american, clarence? >> it may not get through as much as it might, because so many of these functions are being cut back are invisible. it's like only when you go to certain government websites and find the websites closed down or go to a monument closed down. that's why the republicans are using the world war ii memorial as a great photo op because visuals make a difference out there. people will see that. they won't see the head start clinic or the veterans for that matter whose applications aren't being processed for v.a. benefits, et cetera. and that's -- dana's right. the republicans are losing the image war here. they're not sure what to do next. that's why they pull these stunts. >> dana, quickly, the daily beast reported that the chair of the nrc told a group of donors

what the shutdown is really all about. i'm quoting him. he says listen, we have to do this because of the tea party. if we don't, these guys are going to get primaried and they're going to lose their primary. now, the republicans dispute the quote, but the reporter stands by it. is this what the shutdown is about? appeasing the right wing base? >> they say a gaffe in washington is when you accidentally speak the truth. and it's no secret, that's exactly what's going on. you've got 60 die hard tea party members in the republican party, and the rest of the republicans are terrified of being primaried by them. >> all right. well, dana milbank and clarence page, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, the impact of the shutdown. this father can't get a cancer treatment that could save his life. tonight the congressman who took on his fight is here.

and what about this even about -- we'll talk about this even more. why are they doing this? we'll try and get some answers when republican congressman john michael joins me. plus what would you do? an suv driver is swarmed by a group of motorcyclists that later beat him. but should he also face charges for running over one of the bikers? wait until you hear what one lawyer is saying. [ cheering ] ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] build anything with the new toyota tundra.

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. many republicans say the shutdown is no big deal. try telling that to the father of three battling cancer who can't get a potential life-saving drug. the congressman who fought for him and got something done is next. [ man ] this isn't my first career.

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we're back with more on the pain being felt all over the country because of the republican shutdown. veterans won't see benefits, head start programs are shutting down, food programs for women infants and children are being disrupted. but perhaps the saddest reality of this manufactured crisis is what's happening with cancer patients in need. for them, this shutdown is literally life or death. >> signed up to try a promising

new drug. she was expecting approval this week but now has to wait for the shutdown to be other. >> when you're given a terminal diagnosis, each month counts. >> it can now not be approved by the fda because it's shut down with the rest of the government. >> time is of the essence. they can't wait for an unknown amount of time to hope the shutdown will end. this isn't a game. this is my baby's life. >> this is just not right. last night we told you about leo finn, the father of three from cape cod. he's not able to get access to a last-chance treatment. >> this could be the miracle drug. you know? this could be the one that, you know, saved me, that i was going

to be able to walk my daughter down the aisle. i'm just mad that the government can walk away from people and we don't matter. that's what it seems. >> tonight we have a silver lining. some good news about mr. finn, and it was all thanks to my next guest. joining me now is congressman bill keating, democrat from massachusetts, who made this life-saving treatment possible in the midst of a showdown. and shutdown. congressman, thank you for being here tonight and for your remarkable work on this. >> thank you, reverend. >> let me show you this headline today. national institutes of health website to open, enabling patients to again enter trials. this is directly thanks to what you did. what prompted you, first of all, to intervene? >> the remarkable man leo finn who is a generous man and ironically had been working for

fund raising for cancer and other events long before he knew would be inflicted. he met it ed had on taking the treatments, trying to be there. and unfortunately after the latest bout of chemotherapy, he was told nothing else would work. but they wanted to try a cancer drug that was working on other patients. so the trial is approved and the financing was approved and the date was set. just days away. and he got the message from his doctor that because of the government shutdown, they would have to stop, and they couldn't give him that treatment that day. and when we found out about that, i talked to lee owe. i tried to find out what the problem was. he gave me permission to talk to his doctors. we talked to his doctors. then we started going through the federal system. i'll tell you in the midst of all the shutdowns, we had federal employees after hours through the night on the phone trying to help us get to the

bottom of what this administrative problem was. and they found out that leo finn who is in administrative limbo was -- because of the trials already being done, the funding, there was a group of people already to go that had nothing to do with the funding but because of the shutdown were still being stopped from their treatment. and they made sudden changes to rectify this. and leo and other people are now back getting that treatment, but again kwb it shows people working together. the people in my office that worked after-hours, the people in the federal government that worked the after-hours. because we're doing all we can for this one person. unfortunately, there are others. >> let me say this, congressman, and i think it is very applaudable what your staff and the other government employees have done. what bothers me, what distresses me is how it seems as though some of your republican colleagues just don't care and don't see the life-threatening, life-changing in a negative way

things that they're putting many americans through that have nothing to do with the politics of the moment. >> yeah. this isn't about politics. this is about people. and, you know, besides the people dealing with these illnesses, 800,000 furloughed workers. there's a crisis in each of these families. we don't know what they are. we don't know how it's affecting their lives. now all the people that deal with these government agent sis are affected as well. there's no need of it, because i will tell you right now, right now in the house of representatives there are a majority of representatives that will vote right now to open up government if they're being denied that vote. >> if boehner called a vote, the majority would vote right now? >> that's right. and they would vote to open up government right now. >> you know, it's amazing when you look at the national institute of health estimating about 200 people registered for their clinical trials every day. 30 of those are children. ten of those kids are cancer patients. when you're looking at these l

kinds of facts, how do you sit down and play politics? but thank god for people like you, congressman. >> one more thing, reverend, if i could ask you and your audience, there's a courageous man fighting this battle. i would ask all the people listening to keep him in their prayers. >> leo finn. we definitely will keep him in our prayers. and we're thankful that you have helped him to the degree that you have. congressman bill keating, great work. and thanks for coming on the show. >> thank you. coming up, is this shutdown fight really about the affordable care act anymore? i'm hoping to get some answers from a republican congressman next. and what would you do? the road rage tape everyone is talking about. what our next guest says might surprise you. stay with us. a hot smelly car versus a febreze car vent clip. which comes out on top? it's just nice. that's what i was thinking! fresh.

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day four of the government shutdown and a lot of americans are wondering what's it all about? republicans says it was about obama care. but now obama care is here, it's happening. so why is the government shut down? it's confusing. here's what one gop lawmaker told reporters earlier this week. >> is the cr fight really about the affordable care act anymore, or is it about getting reid to the table? >> i was on the house floor today. this fight has now become about veterans and about national guard folks that perhaps -- reservists not getting paid. that's where the fight is today. obama care is mandatory spending.

it's going on. >> and here's what another republican lawmaker said about it. >> is this still about obama care? >> no, it's not. it's about dignity. we're not going to be disrespected, and so that's where we're at today. where we have to get something out of this, and i don't know what that even is. >> why is the government shut down? it's an important question. and we're all trying to get some answers. joining me now is congressman john michael, republican from florida who has voted repeatedly to delay or defund obama care in order to fund the government. congressman, thanks for joining me. >> thank you for the invitation to come back, al. >> now, help me out here. help me understand the gop position. why is the government shut down right now? >> first of all, we have to fund the government for the whole year that we're in started on

the first of october, and we've had disagreements about the funding of various programs including obama care. the problem is we have increased our deficit spending the first year of the obama administration, they spent $1.5 trillion more than we took in. we're now within the next two weeks to raise the debt limit from $17 trillion to $18 trillion. and with that possibility of default, you have funding for this year, you have parts of obama care we'd like to see altered, and then you have the long-term indebtedness all colliding at this cross roads. >> but you've got the deficit falling at a greater rate now than it has in decades. so the deficit rate has actually gotten a lot better. >> that's only happened, al, since the republicans gained

control of one-half of one-third of the government two years ago. the spending went unchecked for the first four years when the democrats controlled the house, the senate, and the white house. it was the biggest increase in spending in the history of government. >> okay, but i guess when george bush was in control of the white house and it blew out of proportion, you don't want to count that. but what does obama care have to do with the deficit? i mean, you could cut the deficit from anywhere. specifically you and your colleagues went after obama care. why? >> first of all, let's go back to the deficit a second. when george bush left and obama took over, there was $9 billion in deficit. most of bush's deficit was spent when the country was attacked on september 11th and rebuilding our military and also the decline in revenue. so that was $9 billion. we're at $17 billion.

we're going to $18 billion. it will double in five years. >> congressman, i could tell you the surplus that bill clinton -- >> do you want me to answer the second part? >> i will, but since you wanted to deviate. bill clinton left us with a surplus, so you don't want to go there. >> let's go back to left us with a surplus. when he came in, the last shutdown was with republicans. but he negotiated with republicans. and yes, you had a republican -- >> he was negotiating over a budget congressman. he negotiated over a congressman. it was not a law. you're taking a law, not a budget. >> we balanced the budget within two years. by '97 right up until the terrorist attacks of 2002. so it was a republican -- that's a great example. a republican house and senate dealing with a democrat president. i said i voted to impeach bill clinton and he worked with us.

this is a president that won't talk to us. >> you're very knowledgeable. >> he brings people down to the white house and he refuses to negotiate. >> fine. then let me ask you a question. when in the history of this country have we ever had a shutdown over a law? >> we've had shutdowns over a law and spending. >> when? >> i was here in '95. >> that was not over a law. i said over a law. you repeated the question. now answer it. >> how do you think we pass -- >> when have we ever had a shutdown -- when have we ever had a shutdown over a law? >> the issue in '95 just as the issue is today. but it's much, much worse today. the issue is over spending. >> no, the issue was not over a law. this is over a law. it was said that you do not want to fund an existing law that was passed by the house and the senate that was upheld by the

supreme court. you cannot compare that to '95. >> -- we were told we'll pass it and once it passes you'll know what's in it. now we know what's in it. the president has actually changed the law -- >> congressman, has -- are you denying it's the law? >> it's changed it 17 times. some of those in cwith what was passed. . a lot of us didn't like it. but we've agreed to compromise and give an exemption -- >> you don't have a compromise a law. are you negotiating -- zb -- for businesses. even the unions are crying for reform in this -- >> all of that you and i know. let's cut the side talk, congressman. is this a law or not? >> it is a law. and congress changes the law. that's what we need to do. >> we can have different opinions. we have different facts. the fact is it's a law.

now, tell me when in the history of this country have we ever shut down the government over a law? >> there have been 17 instances we had shutdowns. >> none over a law. >> they were all over a law because you have to pass a law to fund a government. >> no, that is a spending issue. that is not saying we want to stop as we want to stop the affordable care act. >> we're also spending a record amount on the biggest government program ever instituted which is obama care. and there's nothing wrong with helping people with health care. my family at times did not have health care. i think we should provide it. i think there are some good things that we should keep. pre-existing conditions, some of the younger people including them, we should do some of the exchanges but open it up to competition. look at the prices people who don't have money can't afford getting on obama care. >> absolutely. can i say this to you congressman? in all due respect, the debate

is over. they passed the law. >> no. >> you're talking about to go with or not go with. you're acting this is not the law. it's immaterial what you're saying. so if you can do that to this law, what stops you from doing that to any law? why don't you just say we're going to take this law despite the fact it was passed and we're going to decide even though we lost it, we're going to decide that we're going to play with that? you are breaking down the government. you change laws. you don't defund laws. >> circumstances change. why did the president change it 17 times? he signed seven bills already to change obama care. the democrats themselves said it was a train wreck. and you see it working now. >> let's talk like we're both mature men. no, no, no. we can work together. >> we can work together. but you have to negotiate. >> the fact is you change laws by proposing -- you propose,

congressman -- >> -- the senate didn't come back until sunday at 2:00. would you like a job like that? >> you don't want to talk about that. let me get one thing clear. you change laws by proposing changes and you vote and you get it passed and the president signs it. you do not change laws by defunding by taking a minority of the house and blocking funding on a law. >> one, two, three times we sent over compromises -- >> have you proposed a health care law? have you proposed a health care law? >> -- concessions to try to keep this moving. when they won't negotiate, when they won't come to work. the president someone just told me has done 146 days of golf game versus 28 days of george bush in eight years. >> again, your facts are wrong.

bush had 879 days of vacation. wait a minute. whoa whoa whoa. whoa whoa whoa. this is not going to be -- you're not going to do this. you're not going to do this on this show. bush had 879 days of vacation and just said that president obama should take more days of golfing. you like to overtalk the runway and distract. let me bring you to your district. let's go to your district. yeah, you go back to facts, all right. the fact is george bush had 879 days of vacation and said the president ought to play more golf. and the president on no days was he playing golf when the government was shut down. that's a fact. let me give you more facts. here's a local news report on the shutdown effecting preschoolers in your home district. you like facts? this is your home district. >> go ahead. >> if lawmakers in washington don't act soon, hundreds of

central florida preschoolers will pay the price. >> this is one of the 3-year-olds that love to learn. >> what's that you're making? >> cookies. >> but because leaders in washington dragged their feet and shut down the government, destiny's head start school could shut down too. the head start program provides services for 625 students. >> they still have a job, but come friday our teachers will be out of a job, our students out of a place to learn. >> what do you say to the parents of those preschoolers, congressman, in your district? >> first of all, we have some good preschool programs, some of head start is excellent and some of it needs to be contented a lot of it needs to be shut down and privatized. many are not given the opportunity and performance levels are not high enough. i've tried to work to get people with the highest level of degrees to work with our kids that have the highest level of

problems and come from the most disadvantaged home. i know the good ones and the bad ones, for half the money we could put them in private -- many private schools for $9,200 we're spending on a head start student, i could send them to the best private institutions in central florida and they come out much better. that's one of the things you as an african-american leader should be promoting is improving the educational opportunities for our minorities who are getting shafted by these government programs. come on, al. get with it. >> congressman, are you in denial? you've shut the government down. you're talking like the government is up. you're talking about what you would do or not do. you've shut the whole government down! >> al -- >> you get with it! >> we were voting a few minutes ago -- >> congressman john mica, thank you for your time tonight. you're in denial. you're in denial.

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now to that wild road rage incident on tape that's sparked a national debate. the big question, what would you do? a group of motorcyclists surrounded a suv in new york city. smashed the window of the vehicle and then assaulted the driver in front of his wife and

the 2-year-old daughter. police have identified the prime suspect in the attack and say he's expected to turn himself in to authorities soon. there's no doubt the incident is disturbing. but the events leading up to it have many asking questions. earlier, helmet camera video shows about 20 bikers driving alongside the range rover. one of the motorcyclists slows down leading the suv to bump the back of his bike. seconds later, the group comes to a complete stand still surrounding the suv at the point -- at that point police say some of the bikers began damaging the range rover. then this happens. the suv takes off running over one of the men. police say the vehicle broke both his legs and caused spinal injuries that may leave him paralyzed. after taking off, the cyclists

chase the driver at one point pulling open his door. they later caught up with him in traffic, breaking in his window and then beating him after the video cuts out. nothing justifies beating the driver. but the two flash point moments are sparking one big debate. should the driver of the suv shoulder any blame? and what would you do? joining me now are two people on opposite sides of the debate. michael cordosa in favor of the cyclist and seima arryer in favor of the suv driver. thank you both for coming on the show. let's get to this debate. michael, was the driver justified in speeding off after injuring that biker? >> well, i've got to tell you, reverend, i think the first thing to look at is what happened before they got to that

point where the suv bumped the motorcycle. they're driving down the highway, obviously. something must have happened, because this motorcycle driver chris cruise pulls in front and you can see him in the video looking at the driver of the suv. obviously something must have gone on. was there a highway salute down the road where, you know, he got in a little confrontation? were there words exchanged? then they get to that point where the car stops. and more words were exchanged. people start to surround the suv. some say they started to attack the car, slash tires. is that true? right now we don't know that to be true. but what strikes me is that when mr. lien, the driver of the suv, feels threatened and he obviously has the right, the complete right to defend his family and take himself out of that situation if he feels his life is in danger.

but should he have not done it a little more slowly? why does he speed off the way that he does? had he started to move very slowly -- >> wait a minute, michael. does anything justify -- >> absolutely mr. cardoza and i know there's something called the emergency doctrine in civil law. >> we're talking criminal though. >> let her finish. >> he was acting in an instant spontaneous movement directed to him by that emergency situation. he's in imminent fear not just for himself, rev, for his wife and for his 2-year-old baby. so his actions were completely justified. >> go ahead, michael. >> go ahead. well, it's difficult for all of us to sit back and say i'm in favor of the motorcyclist isn't exactly true. what i'm saying is let's take a better look at this. let's take a slow look at this. if, in fact, his life wasn't in

danger and god knows hindsight is always 20/20 like i say. wouldn't it be easier for him to start moving slowly? remember, he's in an suv. a 2,000 pound car. start moving it slowly. if they start pounding on the windows, bring a weapon out -- >> but is the standard, michael -- >> then it's justified. then it's justified. >> is it standard, though, if he felt his life was in danger, therefore he could do whatever he wants to do including harming other people? >> well, if his life is in danger, yes. but remember, the young man that was injured and he's no stranger to the criminal law, but he -- >> that's putting it lightly. >> how about a little more slowly. he starts to move out slowly. >> a little more slowly? this was a gang mentality. there were 23 motorcyclists

surrounding him and his child. and we know from the video that at a later point in time, one of the cyclists even ripped off the door. so how can you say that he should have moved slowly? >> that's at a later time. >> how should he give them time to attack him, his wife, his child. are you kidding me with this? >> no. i'm not kidding you. you have the hubris a lot of district attorneys have. saying he's guilty of this. it is fair. let's take a step back. let's find out what really happened here. let's take it slowly. >> well, that's the beauty of youtube. we know what happened. it's on video. >> if he's in danger, get out of there. >> he did. he got out of there at that very moment. >> very quickly and he ran over a man and turned him into a paraplegic. >> wait a minute. hold it. let me play this to you. michael who was run over by the suv has hired an attorney, gloria allred.

here's what she said at the press conference today. >> when he saw the driver's range rover stopped on the road, he pulled his bike over to the side and he walked over to where the accident had occurred to see what had happened. then he tried to encourage people to move on and keep riding. he was attempting diffuse the situation. he turned his back to the suv to start walking back to his own bike. it was then with his back to the suv and as he was in front of it that he was run over and crushed. >> so siema, if he had his back to the suv and was trying to help the driver, does that show he was an innocent bystander? >> absolutely not. what allred is saying is it was with the party line. that the cyclists were trying to aid each other or the cyclists were trying to diffuse the situation. but that's not the truth.

that is not what happened. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. what do you mean that's not the truth? were you there? >> i saw the video. >> you don't know what the truth is. that's what i mean -- no. you can't see him walking away. i defy you to show me in the video what exactly happened. it's at best, what? 25 yards away? so you say oh, no. now you might be right, and underscore the word you might be right. but let's dig into the facts. let the police, let the prosecutors talk to all the witnesses and find out exactly what happened. >> i'm going to have t leave it there. thank you. a great debate. thank you both for being here. we will continue to watch this as the investigation goes forward. we'll be right back.

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>> learning from flawed leaders is where i talk about how growing up a single parent household, i emulated and learned from other men. some who became very well known. but i also had to learn if you imitate and emulate people, you have to eliminate where they were weak and where they made missteps. and sometimes you can make heroes out of people to where you act like their mistakes were all right. they're not all right. so you've got to learn to emulate the strengths in people, but eliminate the weaknesses in people. and i share some of that in the book of some of the things i learned good and bad from some very well known people. >> i'm really excited about the book. if you'd like to read an excerpt from the book "the rejected stone," please go to our facebook page. on the page, you can read parts

of the book, and you can also find details about the book signing i'll be doing in new york city next week. it will be this coming tuesday, october 8th. that's the day the book comes out. i will be at barnes & noble on fifth avenue. i'm looking forward to seeing all the "politicsnation" there with me that day. no leader is perfect. none of us are perfect as citizens. but we must not hide behind our imperfections. we must always seek to perfect and correct where we're flawed. the key to life -- and i talk about it in this book -- is being honest enough to say this is flawed and this is right and stand for what's right. and transform yourself and transform in society. so we don't have a society of rejects, but a