bouncing boehner, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris mapt us in boston. let me start with this. this week ends with john boehner being dribbled across the court. he hits the floor because a right winger in the stands yells something nasty. why is he so unable to do what will make him a profile in courage? aren't there better ways to end your career, mr. speaker, than being bounced around by people you don't respect in aren't

there? i have faith in this country, darn it, i have faith in politics. i believe good people can come to agreement and stop taking cheap stupid shots at each oesh. it didn't work once. it took us to civil war. but that was due to slavery. it was economic, historical. we came all to know moral. this fight is whether to implement a law that the united states congress passed, that the president of the united states signed, that the supreme court of the united states declared constitutional. is it a sign of weakness for speaker boehner to say when he gets up in the morning, we're going back to the regular american system. sorry crazies, we're going to enforce the law and move on. jonathan martin writes for "the new york times," jonathan kay port on the "washington post." jonathan march thin, you're chuckling. it's sad. all he has to say regular order, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to enforce a law that we

wrote and the president signed. >> and he would invite a challenge to his speakership if he was to do that. the more likely scenario chris at this point given a few days into the shutdown and the debt ceiling is looming here in a matter of a couple of weeks, is that speaker boehner will try to merge the debt ceiling vote with the vote to get the government to reopen and try to extract some kind of a sweetener from the democrats so he has some cover to sell it to his members and then bring up one vote. it's a lot easier for boehner to make his members take one vote on this than it is to do two separate votes on both the cr to get the government back open and also to raise the debt ceiling. >> jonathan, that's good news. it sounds to me like he understands the stakes, he understands the president will not buckle to a short term deal

on the cr and face another compromise on the debt. i think it's good. jonathan, i'm going to call you mr. cape horn and mr. martin to keep us street. mr. capehart, didn't it sound they might be willing to break with the crazies, i don't mean republicans are crazy, i mean the 30 or 40 that wants to say no because of obama. >> i hope you're right. i hope your sense of optimism turns out to be right. a as we've seen time and again, they never seem to be satisfied. every time he tries to do something that's the right thing to do for the country, they slap him back. what's unfortunate, is that he buckles to them. i'll be curious to see -- >> have you figured out why? if he -- >> why he buckles?

>> why does he buckle to 30? >> i don't understand it. i really don't. i mean, he's -- our colleague here dana milbank has taken to calling him spokesman because he's following his caucus instead of leading them. i don't mean -- actually i do mean to compare speaker boehner to speaker pelosi. if the shoes were flipped and this was speaker pelosi's house, there's no way she would have a vocal minority and her majority telling her what to do. >> jonathan martin, go ahead. >> i was going to -- i don't think i'm being -- i'm not trying to suggest that the conservative hard liners in the house would be pleased with one vote on both the cr to open the government back up and to raise the debt ceiling. i just think it would make them less angry. there's no good options for

boehner given his own politics right now. i do think rolling two tough votes into one and hoping to get a face saving measure be that the medical device tax or something to throw in there and schedule one vote on the house floor. >> that sounds right to me. >> is probably the better of bad scenarios for the speaker. >> sounds right to me too. although it does get to the body of the health care bill. in an interview with casey hunt today, at the time cruz levied a wild accusation to president obama and the democrats. >> the position of the democrats is remarkable. they want 100%. that's why we're facing this shutdown because their position is extreme. >> i don't know what to make of that. cruz has been the architect of the shutdown and the default strategy. take a look at this twisted logic when he was specifically asked about a default. >> no rational person supports a default. we should never default on the

debt. the democrats want government by crisis. they want shutdowns. this is harry reid's shutdown. they want to threaten a default to scare people. it's how we've gotten a $17 trillion national debt. they believe it furthers their interest to -- under no circumstances should we default on our debt and irresponsible of president obama and harry reid to suggest otherwise. >> jonathan martin, i'm pretty good at following people when they talk. i can't follow that. he's saying under no circumstances -- he implies would i support a default. yet he's holding them to the threat that he will default. is there any sense to that? you got to define this objectively. where is the objective statement there to track? >> well, he's trying to place the blame on what's happening and what may happen in the future on the democrats. he's fighting from a defensive

posture because he's trying to pushback on this notion that he and he alone is responsible for the fact that the government is shutdown. he and a lot of his colleagues are trying to spin this to put the shoe on senator reid and president obama. where this really gets interesting, though, is less the government shutdown and mortgage debt ceiling. >> i agree. >> it's one thing for ted cruz. >> let me -- >> nobody wants to have a debt ceiling collapse on their hands. >> do you think -- do you report or analyze the fact that he seems to be responding in that interview there for the first time to the heat that the republican establishment is putting on the politicians here. the house republicans especially. but both of them. that they cannot bring down our american economy and call themselves americans. they can't do that. there he is for the first time pushing back against default.

whereas before, that was the thing he wanted to put the obama care stuff right on. he wanted to put it right on the debt ceiling. not the cr. the debt ceiling. target it. >> that's a good point. >> so i think he's moved back a bit according to your piece on the front page is what i'm talking about. >> i think he's trying to suggest to republicans there too, you might not like me or my tactics, but look, i don't want to see the country default either. i think you're right, that's also a message to the more establishment folks in his own party. >> jonathan martin, great pieces in the times and jonathan capehart from the "washington post." >> what was this fight about, about republicans make willing an end run around democracy? they refuse to accept they passed the affordable care act. when promised to do it. remember that caught on tape moment of the two republican senators calculating the best way to spin shutting down the

government over the affordable care act. kentucky's governor says opponents should get over it. it's going to help poor people. steve bashir joins us next. well, it just happened here near washington, d.c. finally, sleeping on the job. here's congressman george holding on the house floor yesterday. maybe he was worn out by the shutdown debate and had heard enough of the speech of louie gohmert. i don't blame him a bit having to listen to that stuff. this is "hardball," the place for politics. clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair. it targets fine lines and wrinkles with the fastest retinol formula available. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. one week? that's just my speed. rapid wrinkle repair. and for dark spots rapid tone repair.

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welcome back to "hardball." if there's one quote that

explains the mess we're in, it would be this one from anonymous aid. quote, the minority of the minority of the senate gop is going to run things until our leadership gets some backbone. wow. a tiny fraction of the minority is tearing apart the u.s. government and threatening the economic security of the country. in a delusional quest to upend the law. "the new york times" thomas freeman captured this weekend when he urged president obama for the sake of democracy not to give into them. quote, what is at stake in this government shutdown forced by a radical tea party minority is nothing less than the principle upon which our democracy is based. the majority rule. when extremists feel insulated from playing by the traditional rules of the system that they're insulated, if we do not defend those rules namely majority rule and if you don't like a policy passed by congress signed by the president and affirmed by the supreme court, then you have to go out and win an election to overturn it.

you can't just put a fiscal gun to the country's head. then our democracy is in peril. well said. david corn from mother jones magazine and cynthia tucker visiting professor at the university of georgia. by the way, tea party republicans say this all comes down to a need to compromise. they don't like the law the president does, so let's get together and find a middle ground. let's watch their logic here. in other words, we're going to kill the thing you did legally, constitutional, whatever and we want you to happily agree to kill half of it. i think king solomon pointed out about that. but here he is. >> we started out with a position that we don't want any obama care. that is what we truly believe. we think it's bad for the country. president wants all of it, 100%. i would think a compromise would be both sides come off their position some. >> the house republicans have acted reasonably and responsibly to act on two different principles, the

government should be funded and the american people should get relief from obama care. we have repeatedly made reasonable and responsible compromises. >> i think it is indefensible that president obama and harry reid have forced a government shutdown. the reason we have a government shutdown is because they're refusing to compromise, they're refusing to negotiate. >> let me go to david corn. is there a new acting school in washington? i mean, seriously. this is the method acting. how do you convince yourself, even, that a law that's been passed, upheld by the supreme court and three years old, you have a right to destroy it or slice it in half because why? you remember the dictators, i'm not naming particulars, it's been what mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable. that's what dictators do. they're acting like dictators as a minority they're acting like this. >> it strikes me as a little of invasion of the body snatchers. they're reading from the same script. they think if they sound reasonable, the public won't

think they are unreasonable and putting us into default because they're having a tantrum over a law that was confirmed by a conservative-led supreme court. that's what it boils down too. and we're going to see at the end of the day whether barack obama is going to, you know, keep to the position he's had. you know, two years ago in the 2011 debt ceiling fight, he did negotiate, he did yield to get what he thought was the best deal possible to prevent the economy from going over a cliff, being pushed over a cliff by the republicans. >> and what did he teach us by doing that? >> he resolved to himself he wouldn't let this happen again. and so we're going to see who's right at the end of the day. >> i'm looking at the face of ted cruz, cynthia. i'm looking at that face. he's either an actor or he's somehow -- he always has that sad eyed look like i've been let down by my mommy and daddy or my country.

or it's the sad look of moral indignation. another sign of the dick at that torial mind. he looks like he's been screwed, if you will, in modern parlance. because a bill was agreed to and a president re-elected on it somehow hurt his sensibilities. what do you think of this guy? who is he? >> i think ted cruz was promoted and elected to office by a faction of the republican party, that small minority, that tea party faction. and he is beholden to them and to himself. remember, ted cruz is out for ted cruz more than anybody else. and he believes the best way. he's ambitious. he wants to be president. the best way he can to make a name for himself is to continue to promote the crazy ideas of

the tea party faction that put him in office in the first place. never mind if it brings down the country. never mind for that matter, if it threatens the whole global economy. ted cruz is all about ted cruz. >> let me go here now. somehow many republicans say they think they're winning here, like him, despite all the polls show americans blame the republicans for the shutdown. and all the fighting going on right now. phil gingrey said quote, there's some pain and suffering but i don't think that compares one bit to the pain and suffering of being stuck with a lifetime of obama care. that's why i'm holding pretty firm on this. here's michele bachmann on fox this week. let's watch her in action. >> i think we will continue to hold on. ultimately the republicans are the conservatives that are going to work together to make sure that we can push back obama care. we're really very energized today. we're strong.

this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. because we see that we're starting to win this dialogue on a national level. >> what do you make -- you're laughing. what is this? bodybuilding, moral rearment? it's like a subjective therapy they're going through. if we fight this law, we're going to somehow become stronger people and that's made it worth it to the country? >> remember, michele bachmann thought she was going to end up as president. so what she thinks about reality doesn't have much bearing upon reality. you know, i recently read a book about this guy named tip o'neill and ronald reagan. >> i know it well. >> you know it well. one of the things that struck me was they had some major league fights, some battles back in those days. and when tip lost as he did in that first year a couple of times, you know, he put it aside and, say, on the tax cuts and he waited a year or so later. turned out the tax cuts reagan passed were creating tremendous deficits and then he came back and said we've got to do

something about this and he forced reagan into compromises that led to raising taxes. in this instance -- >> rather than cutting social security. rather than cutting social security is what reagan wanted to do. right. >> so in this instance, we'll have these guys saying get rid of obama care first. wait a second. you have millions of people coming to sign up. if it is going to crash the economy, then you can come back and say see, we were right, they were wrong. let's do something about it. if reality has given us that point, then the american people will vote more for republicans and will come rallying. >> it's called repeal. tried for prohibition about a decade. didn't work so we got rid of it. they're afraid to try it because they're afraid people are going to like it. i wish we had more time. cynthia, one last quick word. >> they are afraid people are going to like it, chris. that's the reason they're fighting so hard to shut it down.

>> i'm with you. thank you so much. have a nice weekend, if you can, if you're not working for the government. this thing about you have to show up but we're not going to pay you, that's not going to last long at the tsa with women and men checking our luggage. i want them happy. thank you both. up next, sleeping on the job. what's got this congressman snoozing away? i think he's got a good case. louie gohmert was talking. the birther. better not heard. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 

time for the sideshow. it's been a long, tense week for washington with congress working overtime lawmakers playing political games over the shutdown and yesterday's car chase. republican representative george

holding of north carolina was feeling a bit worn out presiding over the house floor last night. as you may have seen, cameras caught him snoozing during louie gohmert's lengthy speech. i sympathize with the gaia sleep. he may have to carry that small embarrassment for awhile, the congressman joins the ranks of many other politicians who have been caught nodding off. to commemorate his now-famous slumber, we've put together a montage of other great political naps. let's take a look. [ snoring ] >> it's about trying to do what's right for the whole country. and if your heart doesn't -- ♪ [ snoring ] >> they're willing to work in a collaborative fashion with the federal government.

[ snoring ] ♪ >> and if your heart doesn't break when you read these stories -- >> don't you love it the way the guy wakes up and realizes he's on camera? finally, the republican governor of pennsylvania tom corbett has ignited a controversy after trying to back track which likened gay marriage to underage marriage. in doing so, the governor then made it worse by comparing same-sex marriage to incest. there's an old one. listen to how that played out at the local cbs station up at harrisburg. >> there was a controversial remark made by a member of your legal team comparing gay marriage to the union of 12-year-olds saying both are illegal. which you called inappropriate. >> it was an inappropriate analogy. you know, i think a much better analogy would have been brother and sister, don't you? >> i don't know. i don't know.

i'm going to leave the comments to you and your team. >> that was a safe response by the interviewers from cbs. i don't know, i don't know. i'm going to leave that to you. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. up next, your business with jj ramberg. [ male announcer ] pepcid® presents: the burns family bbq.

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