last night i get to do this. but i will always cherish the opportunity i have had, all of these years, to, on friday nights, give you a toast, and send you to prison. poised to strike. tropical storm karen is expected to reach land in the next day. where will it hit and will it pack a punch? a live report coming up next. shutdown, day 5. president obama delivers a new message to republicans this morning as the house meets in just three hours. is there any deal in sight to get the government up and running? >> what exactly happened? that's what the sisters of a woman fatally shot on capitol hill are asking. we'll bring you the latest twists in that case. is a historic move for a landmark retailer. hear what macy's plans to do this year that it's never done before.

good morning, everyone. welcome to "weekends with alex wit witt". here's what's happening. three dynamic weather events unfolding at this hour. first, the snow. blizzard-like conditions in early october. as much as three feet of snow fell in parts of south dakota and montana. in wayne, nebraska, a possible tornado caught on tape. the storm destroyed at least four homes and a sports complex. 15 were injured. tornados reported in iowa and south dakota as well. to the south, tropical storm karen is headed to the gulf coast but she is losing some steam. for more on the mixed bag of weather, here's nbc meteorologist bill karins. good morning. >> good morning, mara. we didn't throw in the fire danger in california. we have smoke going into san francisco last night from some of the blazes. as far as karen goes, this is the best news of all.

this has been an incredible hurricane season. none of the storms have overachieved. they have all overachieved. there's a good chance it goes down to tropical depression. people expecting a rainy saturday on the gulf are going to be partly cloud wherewith breaks of sunshine. just breezy companies. the radar barely shows any rain at all. this could go down as a tropical depression at any time. it does not show any intense fiction. it will be a nonevent. just an increase in waves and rain showers. that's really about it. sunday afternoon and evening as it heads towards mobile. 20% chance of it getting any stronger than it is. the big story last night was the tornados. we had about 17 of them right near sioux city. look at all the markers. very dangerous weather out there. these were big. these are not just average. some were reported a mile wide. we're very fortunate we didn't have any lives taken last night.

of course we did have a lot of serious injuries. we wish those people the best. we really dodged one last night. these are powerful twisters. on top of everything, that same storm, the snow is still falling. severe weather will happen again today but not so much tornados. damaging winds. chicago, indianapolis, louisville. a lot of people in stadiums. we'll have to be careful as the storms go through, especially with the lightning. then the snow. rapid city, south dakota, 28 inches of snow. that's one of the biggest snow is storms they have ever had. 20 inches in the beginning of october is ridiculous. the thing i'm most concerned with today is the fires, if they form in southern california. they are saying this is the worst fire weather conditions in five years. they're very concerned if they get any fires that form that they will spread quickly and be a very dangerous situation. it's incredible that karen -- it's almost done. >> that's good news. thanks so much, bill.

returning to washington. the political storm as we enter day 5 of the government shutdown. new this morning, president obama addressing republicans directly with one resounding message. pass a so-called clean spending bill. >> take that vote. stop this farce. end this shutdown now. the american people don't get to demand ransom in exchange for doing their job. neither does congress. they don't get to hold our democracy or our economy hostage over a settled law. >> that settled law being the affordable health care act. >> the democrats have calculated that by prolonging the shutdown and maximizing the pain they can bully republicans into doing whatever president obama and majority leader reid want them to do. >> in the meantime, the house will meet later this morning to

vote on a deal that offers back pay once the government reopens. this one has a chance of passing. the white house has signaled it would support is the measure. on friday, the house approved legislation restoring funds for federal disaster relief and allows resumption of women, infants and children, also known as w.i.c. for the latest now, i'm joined by kristin welker at the white house. good morning, kristin. what are we hearing that would allow back pay for federal workers once the government does reopen? >> reporter: well, good morning, mara. the reason why the white house might consider supporting that measure is because it deals with what happens after the government reopens. we saw the government shut down 17 years ago, you'll remember that the furloughed workers did receive back pay. so i think that everyone agrees they want these workers to get their pay once the government opens. the reason why the the white

house has said they are not going to support piecemeal bills that open up the government in small bits and pieces, publicly they say it's a gimmick. privately, it decreases the pressure on congress to actually open up the entire government. now, as you just pointed out, mara, this continues to evolve around the signature piece of legislation, health care law. republicans have said they will reopen the government but only if it is attached to a year-long delay in the president's health care law. the president said, look, he will negotiate with republicans once they open up the government and once they increase the the debt limit about his health care law but only after they do those things. he said i'm not going to negotiate over a short-term government funding bill. that is where things stand. president obama yesterday walked to a local sandwich shop here, a shop that was giving discounts because of the government shutdown. both sides continue to dig in

their heels. here's a little bit more from the president's weekly address. take a listen. >> i won't pay a ransom in exchange for reopening the government. and i certainly won't pay a ransom in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. for as reckless as a government shutdown is, an economic shutdown that comes with default with america not paying its bills would be dramatically worse. >> it's become disturbingly clear that the obama shutdown is no longer about health care or spending or ideology. it's about politics, plain and simple. >> reporter: so you hear john cornyn also digging in his heels. i have covered a number of these budget battles. usually when you get close to the deadline you start to see a strategy emerge about how to get out of this. now that we are several days in, i can tell you based on my conversations here at the white house and capitol hill there still doesn't seem to be a strategy for ending all of this

which is disconcert issing for everyone here in washington. >> thanks so much. lauren fox and political reporter for the "washington post", aaron blake. good morning to you both. thanks for being here. i want to start with you. we're five days into the shutdown. are we any closer to a resolution? or are things still completely a mess? >> you know, these things always tend to seem so far away until suddenly they are very close. you know, we don't know everything about the negotiations that are going on. what we do know both sides are offering very pitched rhetoric right now. john boehner's press conference yesterday where he basically said this is no damn game. the republicans criticizing white house official for saying that they thought they were winning this debate. the white house, meanwhile, is not budging from its no negotiations strategy. i think they are really trying to set a precedent here.

they don't want to keep going through this every time there is a budget debate. i think they have made a calculation this is their one time to really stand their ground, not negotiate at all, hope they win, hope the republicans give in. then in the future they won't have to negotiate over these things anymore. the problem with that is it leads into the situation we're in right now. it's going on. republicans appear to be getting blamed more. but this is not a great situation for either side at this point. >> we just heard aaron mention what an administration official said about winning this. we are winning. it doesn't really matter to us how long the shutdown lasts. what matters is the result. the president did try to walk that back yesterday. let's listen to that. >> there's no winning when families don't have certainty about whether they are going to get paid or not. nobody is winning. that's the point. >> lauren, what do you make of that statement? are they, in fact, winning and

how does that play when it comes to public opinion? >> certainly there is a flash back to the 1990s. republicans did get blamed. they took the lion's share. in the end the president walked away with much higher approval ratings. but i don't know if the white house strategy here in&thinking the longest this goes on the longer they win is quite the approach. if we think about it, the house republicans, even though they know none of this is going to get taken up, has been working on piecemeal bills. they want to ease the pain of the shutdown. the house thinks that would be giving away leverage. but, you know, it looks like to the american people, to the voters who may not be paying attention to every step along the way, republicans are acting and why aren't democrats and the senate? regardless of the fact that maybe that's not the case here play-by-play it looks like maybe americans outside the beltway may see it that way. >> aaron, the house will vote on

a measure to make sure 800,000 furloughed employees will get their back pay. and the white house signaled it does support that. this is yet another gop piecemeal funding measure. why does this one have a chance? >> well, this has a chance i think because as kristin noted, it's something that's going to be happening after the shutdown is actually ends. this is not going to be a piecemeal government funding bill. it's also something that the parties kind of idealogically agree on. ted cruz, for instance, yesterday would not commit to supporting this piece of legislation. there may be some resistance to voting for something where you are paying federal workers for work they did not actually work. so we will have to see how this pans out. i do expect it to pass. the question is whether or not this comes another p.r. situation for republicans in which some of the members vote

against something that the vast majority of american people in all likelihood do support. >> lauren, one of your latest articles is titled the tale of two shutdown strategies. so what are the two competing strategies at play here? >> well, it looks like ted cruz has been working on getting the republicans and the house of representatives to hold their grouped, to not negotiate, to not give in on their fight to defund the affordable care act or at least delay it. meanwhile, rand paul hosted coffee summit on the hill this week. he wanted to get republicans and democrats together. only one democratic senator showed up. but he seems to be looking for some kind of solution or at least appearing like he's working for some kind of solution there. he also was advocating for a week-long or two-week long continuing resolution so at least the government wouldn't shutdown while republicans and democrats had a little extra time to negotiate a plan to keep the government open.

it looks like there are to strategies evolving here. of course that may have big consequences and play in 2016. >> all right. lauren fox and aaron blake, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. the real impact of the government shutdown from those directly feeling it. we'll hear from them at the half hour. new information about the woman killed by police in the capitol shooting. also, new questions. did police go too far by opening fire? (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.

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it could have been any woman or any sister traveling in any capitol. deadly force was not the ultimate recourse. and it didn't have to be.

>> the sisters of miriam carey speaking out about the life and circumstances of her death. >> i can tell you that she was a woman that -- a law abiding citizen, carefree, loving, just like anyone else. she had a baby. she did suffer from post partem depression with psychosis. >> the car chase that led to the death of 34-year-old miriam carey. initially she was thought to have gotten out of the car. she had been recently weaned off her medications and seemed fine to them. they also say they were not officially informed of their sister's death by police. they say they learned of it by the media. joining me is is national reporter for "usa today". thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> what have we learned so far? >> we learned that she had this

18-month-old baby in her car and her family says she was suffering from post partem depression with psychosis. she was unstable woman at the time. she may have suffered a mental breakdown at the time and she was being chased by police. >> we just heard her family say she did not pose enough of a threat to be fired upon. what's the general operating procedure for police in a situation like this? >> i think if you -- this is washington, d.c. i just recently moved from washington, d.c. to new york. a woman acting erratically. driving to the capitol. while police may have stride to show restraint it was probably seen as a big threat because it is the nation's capitol and where president obama lives.

while her family is still trying to figure out what happened here, the police in the situation probably felt she was a very high threat in a very sensitive place in our nation's capitol. >> sure family is saying they did not have to use deadly force. but she was using her car as a weapon. what are law enforcement officials saying about the the way police responded. >> people on the hill are saying they basically thought this was someone going to be doing something to hurt the public. the idea she was in a car, the idea she was acting erratically. even though they didn't have an actual weapon, her car was being used as that. i think there will be an investigation whether or not deadly force should have been used. but i think the people on the hill we have talked to at "usa today" this is someone that was posing a very high danger. it was seen as very highly dangerous. i don't think law officials at this time, anybody is being

reprimanded for the actions they to took. authorities obtained some of her personal possessions. what are they trying to find? >> anything that would show motive. her family has said they're still unsure why she did this. i spent a long time in brooklyn yesterday in the housing projects where she grew up talking to people. everyone is at a loss as to why she did this. i think they will be looking for sign ises as to why she did this. from my understanding, i don't think anybody is clear on what they found so far. >> all right. we certainly will be waiting to learn of a motive. thanks so much for your time this morning. >> thank you. if you're waiting to buy an airline ticket home for thanksgiving, don't. i'll tell you how much each day of waiting will cost you. also, we want to hear more from you. head over to facebook and like us. ♪ [ male announcer ] when we built the cadillac ats from the ground up

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it's time for our big three money headlines. one, missing numbers. two, now and later. three, christmas creep. for more on all of those, morgan, good morning. >> good morning. >> first, we have another casualty of the government shutdown. monthly jobs numbers. does it actually impact anything? >> it actually does. jobs friday was not to be because of the government shutdown. the labor department said they have suspended indefinitely that crucial report. the federal reserve very closely watches to decide whether and when they are going to taper their bond buying stimulus program. this is something wall street keeps a close eye on. adp and several other reports, as well as independent economists is that the jobs the u.s. economy like gained between

160,000 and 190,000 in september. that would be consistent with the months previous. it would actually keep us online to gain a modest 2 million jobs through 2013. the other number is 7.3. that is the unemployment rate. that's what we saw in august. it likely remained flat in september as well. that's not necessarily a good thing. we don't know for sure because that would mean americans are still giving up for searches on their jobs. >> let's talk about thanksgiving. holidays are fast approaching. every day you wait will cost. >> you $5 per day. on top of that, expedia and c e kayak say now is the time. if you wait until halloween, you're putting on $130. >> a lot of people wait for

last-minute deals. is that not a smart strategy? >> it's better to buy now. there are tips if you're still waiting. if you buy the wednesday before thanksgiving or you buy your return flight the monday after thanksgiving, you will still find cheaper tickets. >> i hear macy's is getting an even earlier start to black friday. >> you and i are still thinking about halloween. >> i'm not there yet. i'm still in summer. >> they are engaging whether they are willing to work 8:00 p.m. on thanksgiving. this is a trend we have seen for several years now. last year we saw kmart, sears, walmart all opening earlier. we're seeing this because consumers want to shop on thanksgiving. we're seeing this because holiday shopping season is here. six days shorter. almost a week less time. >> is say it ain't so. morgan, thank you so much for your time this morning. >> thank you. jimmy fallon on the many regrets of microsoft founder

bill gates. he said making users control alt delete was a foul. and clippy, that default annoying assistant from microsoft word. >> clippy the paperclip from microsoft word. we should have executed him. i always hated clippy the paperclip. you want to write a letter? yeah, i do. turn this dumb thing off. is this a resume? >> stop it. >> you haven't had a job for quite some time. you have quite a lot of free time on your hands. you don't know how to spell. give off my back, clippy.

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now get a $179 per month lease on a 2013 nissan altima. ♪ welcome back to "weekends with alex witt". it is now 7:31 past the hour. new developments this morning in the shocking road rage incident here in new york city. the man seen in the video, this one here, using his helmet to break the window of an suv, has surrendered and is being questioned by police. another biker is also being questioned. neither has been charged. jonathan is outside the police station where they are being questioned. what's the the latest in this investigation? >> good morning to you, mara. i think the big headline this morning is the potential role that several off-duty police officers may have played in leading up to this attack that took place last sunday. according to the nypd, who we

spoke with this morning, said as many as six off-duty nypd officers were part of the pack of 20 or so officers that gave chase to the suv leading up to that assault. the nypd going on to say internal affairs is now investigating. at this point, though, it remains unclear if any of those officers, again all of them off duty we're told, whether or not any of them a role in the assault. as you mentioned, two other suspects, two other bikers did surrender. they turned themselves in. they have not been charged. but they are being questioned. chance surrendered last night. he is the guy holding that helmet. at least that's who police say he is. pounding it against the window of the suv. he is being interviewed, along with 35-year-old robert simms, who according to police, we're told tried to open up the door to grab the driver on out of the

suv. this is a fast moving investigation. a dozen people have been identified among that group of bikers that led up to this attack. they have looked through several hours of surveillance to i.d. them. they are introducing new photos looking for the public's help in bringing them forward. obviously a lot of questions as this investigation continues on this morning. mara, back to you. >> jonathan, thanks so much. it's day 5 of the government shutdown. the house reconvenes at 10:00 eastern and is expected to take up a federal worker retroactive pay bill. it has a total of nine mini funding bills to consider. yesterday, it pass measures for feme and wic. they are unlikely to be considered because harry reid is opposing votes on individual spending bills. while congress debates the shutdown is, americans who depend on everything from their

paychecks to vital health care are suffering. here's a series of reports from the past week and what they are saying. >> if there's a trial being done where samples must be sent for analysis, that can't be done. >> cancer patient michelle was hoping she will be approved for a clinical trial this week. she's concerned her chances will dim if the shutdown continues. >> when you're given a terminal diagnosis, each month counts. >> you never want to be told in your job that you are nonessential. especially three times in one day. >> brian is a major in the air force reserve and civilian employee at the pentagon and serves as adviser to tim kaine. >> he showed up tuesday to get furloughed. then he came to my office to hear me deliver my furlough speech to all my employees. >> they have five girls and zero pay.

both of them are on furlough from wright patterson in ohio. they are still trying to recover from losing six days each because of the sequester. >> if we end up getting reimbursed for the time off, it's too late. we need money now. >> at north carolina's fort bragg, thousands of employees were sent home without pay. >> political pause in washington's game. >> and the same at the naval yard in va. >> i would like them to be in my shoes. >> is i wouldn't have anything to eat without this food panry. >> wanda doesn't know where she would get her next meal. >> they're not thinking about us, the people that really needs it. >> federally funded education programs like this one in memphis were unable to feed their kids. the free meals were suspended under the shutdown until further

notice. >> some people depend on their kids to eat when they come here. >> epa employee elizabeth left her office to apply for unemployment benefits. >> right now i'm terrified. to the point where, okay, what's going to happen? >> so is there any end in sight? joining me now is democratic congresswoman nito lowe. thank you for your time this morning. >> good morning, mara. it's a pleasure to be with you. >> now, you were listening to the pieces we just played. what's the reaction of the people going through right now. >> this republican shutdown is a disaster. and the impact is real and painful. frankly it's an embarrassment for the united states of america. there is a negotiation. the number in this bill is the republican number. the the senate took the number.

the house democrats took the number. and frankly many of our democrats were not happy with that low number, but we took it. so let's bring the bill to the floor today. without all the trim. not try and destroy affordable care act. remember, that was passed by both houses, the senate and the house and affirmed by the supreme court. let's just deal with the budget. we could do it today, send it to the president. he would sign it. and the government would be open and you wouldn't hear these painful stories which i hear all the time. by the way, there are 200 people who are not being able to enter clinical trials at the national institutes of health as was mentioned by this one person. we've got to open the government now. the republicans must do it now and stop all catering to the tea party wing of the republican party and ted cruz. >> now, let's ignore for the moment which party contributing

getting us into this mess. let's talk about getting out of it for a moment. what specifically are democrats doing to end the shutdown? >> well, we know it was reported today in the "new york times" and many other papers that if that clean bill, the continuing resolution of the republican number was brought to you floor today it would pass with democrat and republican votes. so we are going to put in place a discharge petition, which means bring the bill to the floor. let's have a vote, mr. speaker. let's stop this despicable action of shutting down the government which is causing such distress to so many people. >> now, the new approach from house republicans is the piecemeal were funding bills. a few have broken rank and voted for the bills. what's your position on them? >> well, we have to bring up the whole bill. i've been part of the

negotiation of the whole bill. the republicans know it. the democrats know it. you can't just nitpick. we have to help the veterans in every way. the republicans cut $6 billion from the veterans bill that they brought on the floor. we cannot do that. we must open the whole government and not just pick and make it piecemeal. >> to you anticipate a lasting impact either political or economic? >> well, i think what's most important is the impact on the economy. you heard in your piece before that people who are furloughed can't go to the malls. they can't buy food. this has a major impact on the economy. and that is the prime reason, besides the pain that it's causing so many people. we've got to get this government open today.

>> all right. congressman lowe, thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you. right now the gulf of mexico is bracing for the second named storm to hit the mainland this season. karen has been downgraded from hurricane to tropical storm. a state of emergency has been declared in four states. a tropical storm watch is in effect for the new orleans area. the weather channel's jim cantore is in pensacola, florida. jim. >> reporter: good morning. yeah, when you think where we were 48 hours ago, let's go back for a second. we were looking at a potential hurricane somewhere between extreme eastern louisiana and the florida panhandle. we can get evacuation, aid if we get a storm that produces a three to eight-foot storm surge. but what has changed is it will not be a hurricane. it is barely a tropical storm. so what we are going to see --

go ahead. >> i was just going to ask you, what are we going to see and how bad or mild will it be? >> yeah. basically the center itself is a gale center. the will come up towards louisiana. there's been a little water rise already. it will continue. a foot versus three to five feet. a big difference there. all the thunderstorms are off to the east. all that moisture gets caught up in the cold front that's coming. and there will be showers and thunderstorms. really for all intents and purposes, most people won't really know a tropical entity is coming to shore. like i said, when you have to plan on evacuations, getting people out of harm's way, especially what we were looking at 48 hours ago and the fact this could have been a minimal hurricane in, it's not

surprising we have this states of emergency. these have to be in place. what we need to do is get the computer models to be much better in intensity. the european model said we weren't going to have much to come into the coastline. >> all right. still good news. we'll tack it. we like underperforming storms. >> yes. >> thank you so much for your time this morning. >> president obama's former car czar joins alex in today's office politics and talks about what it takes to resurrect america's auto industry. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with honest reviews on over 720 local services. keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies. angie's list definitely saves me time and money. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today.

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this shutdown. and it is symbolic of the failure of our government to pull together, unlike the people here who knew how to pull together to get something tough done. >> the cemetery at the site is the final resting place for 9,400 killed in the d-day invasion. turning to this week's office politics, steve ratner speaks of a near death experience of two of america's largest car companies. he played a big role in the revival of the so-called car czar. >> i was not an auto guy. i never worked with cars. i knew nothing about autos. but i knew something about companies. i have never seen two companies in worse shape, for two very different reasons.

it came down to bad management. yes, there were problems with gas, unions, japanese competitors and the funding crisis. but g.m. in particular was one of the worst-run companies. it was fortune 500 but had terrible, terrible management. >> how did you fix it? >> we did a massive restructuring. we put g.m. in wipe out liabilities that were unsustainable. some dealerships had to close. >> it was controversial. how did you decide which to be closed? >> we didn't. we said to the company, we both agree, the company and we agree dealerships have to be reduced. it's not our job to decide how many dealerships should be in charlotte, north carolina or which should stay. you guys do that. come back when you figure it out. so the company made the specific decisions. we simply said it had to happen.

we changed management, general motors. ultimately chrysler in a different way, and brought in a new board of directors and restructured the company in a few months through bankruptcy and simply making decisions that had been put off too long. >> so the certificate of the auto industry right now is? >> extraordinarily health. probably beyond anything i would have mantled. >> you started your career as a business journalist for the "new york times". >> i was a college journalist. i got out of college and thought i would go to law school or business school. then, a long, be boring story that would fake your entire weekend show for me to tell i worked as a news clerk for a man called james restin who was a columnist. went from there to being a business reporter. spent eight and a half years and then decided i ought to try to do something else. >> what's their story?

>> i have four that are so incredibly different. i love them all. they're so different in terms of what they're interested in. i actually have a set of twins that are the two most different. one is a banker, young banker. just got out of college. and another working on a play on broadway. he wrote a play as part of his dissertation. he loves the theater. i have one going to law school in a year and one going to college who doesn't quite yet know what he's going to do. >> at noon, we'll hear alex talking to steve about his brush with two presidents. office politics coming up at noon. . well, signing up for obama care has been a problem for some folks, but are the glitches really as bad as some say? but , i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose.

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joining me now is sarah clip, health care reporter for the the "washington post". >> thanks for having me. >> in an article your colleagues quoted one insurance industry official who said enrollment may be in the single i've spoken with, one person described it as a trickle rather than a wave. they are seeing some enrollment, but it's pretty small is. this is what insurance companies expected. since the insurance doesn't start until january, there's not much of a rush to sign up. they weren't expecting a big wave. but i think the glitches have

made it even more difficult for people to buy insurance during this first week. >> we have heard a lot about these glitches. should the white house look at the traffic problems as a sign of success in terms of how many people are interested in logging on to these sites? >> he yeah, you know, it's hard to gauge right now. they haven't given us any numbers as to how many people have signed up. a lot of

the a obama care has been opened for business. they have not said how many are enrolled in the program but said the website received 25,000 visitors in the first day alone. good morning, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> in an article this week, they quoted one insurance initial who said enrollment may be in the numbers this morning. >> one person described it as a trick him rather than a wave, they're seeing some enrollment. it's pretty small. this is what insurance companies expected since it doesn't start until january, there isn't much of a rush to show up. a lot of times we don't show up three months inned a vavens. so they western expecting a big wave,c or its . >> so it's hard to know, obviously, it was not enough traffic. and i called the help line. >> are you hearing about the supporting infrastructure in terms of calm centers or the online help presence? >> yes, that's one of the things they have been working on over the course of this week t. white house says the kate wait times are cut in half. they are getting people on the phone. i tried to call, sometimes it's a few minutes, sometimes 20 minutes. it seems like my own anecdotal

experience, it's all over the place t. whouz says they are making a concerted effort and are encouraging people to call the customer number and get help there. >> there was an article in the new york times this week that took a look at the people who have fallen through the cracks of health care. it's the very poor whose states did not sign on and don't earn enough to qualify for subsidies on the exchanges. is there any recourse here for that group? >> there really isn't and we're talking about a lot of people. millions of people since 24 hour states are not expanding the medicaid program. they're kind of in this donut hole where they are too poor to qualify nor the medicate program that exists right now. they don't earn enough to get the subsidies. this is a result of the supreme court decision a year ago, that they said states do not have to extend ped cade. >> that left people in this no man's land. >> sarah, thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you. >> that wraps up this hour.

be sure to join me for a two-hour edition of alex witt. straight ahead, more smart political talk on "up" with steve cornnetic. don't go anywhere. so now i can help make this a great block party. .