anyway, i'm not signing up for it. morning joe starts right now. >> the president is the preside refusing to negotiate on obama care, even though the republicans have been very flexible. >> i'd like to repeal every word of the laurk bw, but my positio we should defund it. even now what the house of representatives has done is a step away from defunding it, it's delaying it. >> i've heard reference to a full delay or a full repeal to now just saying, mr. president, can we not just have one year delay? >> we said well, what about a one-year delay? we've been offering compromise after compromise. but you hear from the president and his men and his women, no negotiation. >> no negotiation. even though every one of those offers is a compromise from the

republicans' initial offer, having mitt romney be president. [ laughter ] >> there is that. good morning, everyone. it's tuesday, october 8th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have the former communications director for george w. bush, nicole wallace. karl bernstein. and in washington, white house correspondent for bloomberg news, julianna goldman. and pulitzer prize winning columni columnist, eugene robinson, along with willie, joe, and me. >> so we're going to show these polls. wow. >> we'll start there. you're surprised by those. >> i've got to say, it's -- the blame is more evenly spread out than it usually is in these matters. really interesting. i'm very interested to see what everybody's take. >> americans are increasingly unhappy with the handling of the government shutdown by all sides, as joe alluded to.

according to a "washington post"/abc news poll, 70% disapprove of how republicans have handled budget negotiations. 61% disapprove of the democrats. and 51% are unhappy with president obama's role. the disapproval number for all groups are up since last month with republicans up the most. a cnn poll tells us similar story. 63% disapprove of republicans' handling of the budget compared to 57% for democrats and 53% for president obama. a pew pole has republicans up from a three-point spread last month, but compare that to 1995 when the public blamed congressional republicans nearly 2-1 over president clinton. the pew pole want eed the president to make a deal. 44% say the republicans should

just make a deal without altering obama care. >> it's very interesting, isn't it? you tell me what's your take on the poll, and as you saw these polls, you were telling me about going to pennsylvania. >> yes, i was in lancaster county over the weekend. >> with jim's friends and family members. >> you said there was just anger about obama care. >> absolutely. a lot of the worker -- small businesses and bigger companies on mid levels, they feel like it's really going to hurt them. but i'm personally not surprised by these poll numbers. i think when something like this happens, everyone suffers and i'm sure the white house expects that at this point. and i think the bigger picture is at what point do you look at the polls and you think about the future politically and at what point do you do what's right or wrong? you can't have this law taken hostage by a small group of republicans and changed. what does that mean for the future of our democracy if they can do this? >> apparently a lot of americans agree with those small groups of republicans. and we knew coming into this

that both sides were going to be hurt. the white house knew the last time they were down in the low 40s, the last time we had this sort of budget shutdown. but there is an asymmetry to these numbers, because those republicans that, let's say, are reading these polls and say 70% of americans are against us, see polls in their own district that show 70% of my constituents who are going to decide where i'm here or not, are for me. so let's just drive barack obama's numbers down even more until i get down in the low 60s, you know? and that's the asymmetry. that's the problem the white house has to deal with right now, right? >> yes, but we're also at a great cultural moment right here. great political, pivotal moment in our history. i compared it last week here to mccarthy, joe mccarthy, mccarthyism. this is about the republican party and what is it going to be. is it going to be a fact-based, philosophical argument or anile

listic, hateful, asymmetrical in terms of facts and the truth, as in joe mccarthy. this is about media as well. these poll numbers are about a totally different media culture than we've had in the past. and as you see in that clip from comedy central, we need to start covering this story not 50/50, this much on this side, we need to cover it factually. because there are facts here that will show what this event is about. and where, in fact, is this anger, hatred of obama coming from. what is the root of this. "the new york times" did a great story the other day about how this wing of the republican party, call it the mccarthy wing, call it the eric cantor wing, whatever you want to kalt, h -- call it, has been gearing up for this. >> playing the role, because we teamed up last time. >> we did. you came after me.

but it was good. i liked it. >> i gave you 12 joe mccarthy references. >> i think it's important because it's the only comparable time since joe mccarthy we've had this in the republican party. and who is going to appease it? >> i've got to move on, playing the role of bill krystal this morning, nicole wallace. let's look at this from where you looked at it from a white house communication director. there's an old proverb that says beware the man with nothing to lose. these house republicans have nothing to lose. very popular in their own district. >> i would bet -- >> if i saw 51% of americans were angry at bill clinton back in 1995, i'd turn to my friends and i'd go step on it, boys. we're going to drive him into the 30s. i'm just saying that's what

those guys have to be thinking this morning looking at these polls. >> and i bet their numbers aren't just high in their district. i bet that if you poll conservatives nationally, these are the hometown heroes of the conservative movement. i bet when you look at the early poll numbers in the primary states will be the republicans skewed by the media. >> you and i both know the great irony of this is these hometown heroes who will hold on to the house will also make it next to impossible for our candidate in 2016 to beat hillary in the suburbs of philadelphia. >> unless that candidate does what some of the -- >> like chris christie. >> and there are republicans in congress who have been critical of this approach. there are house republicans showing up on television who are talking about a very different tune in their districts. congressman dent was on tv last

night. i mean, there is a divide in the republican party. but let's leave hate out of it just for a second. i know that won't last for too long. >> it's kind of hard because i've got some incredible sound bytes. >> it's more fundamental. the divide in the republican party isn't about haters and lovers. it's about governing and not governing. and there is a group that -- and you can condemn their motives and you can condemn the outcome, but there is a group that is simply not interested in governing and that is the divide in the republican party. >> very well-put. >> ideologically, we as a party are all on the same page. we do not believe that obama care is the right way to reform a health care system. there's no divide in the republican party on the policy. but there is a great and bleeding wound now over whether we as a party are meant to govern. >> that's why i call ethem

annihalists. >> i don't know what the democratic equivalent would be. the liberal equivalent would be. i guess it would be like hey listen, if we do nothing, if the government remains in this state, then just billions and billions and billions of dollars of new federal spending are going to be spent every day. and we're going to keep spending and we're going to keep spending and we're going to keep spending and create new programs, we're going to build new bureaucracy -- you know, think about it. if you're a libertarian and you've squeezed it with a sequester, and even with the cr, you go back to pre-2008 levels, you're sitting here going, you know? let's see how long we can play up this government shutdown. again, not about hate. but just about a governing or a non-governing philosophy. >> it's true on a political front, i guess. those are victories.

but you'd like to think there are some people thinking larger than winning political points in their district, given the fact now nine days until october 17th when we hit the debt ceiling. let's bring in our washington contingent julianna goldman. where is the white house sitting on this right now? obviously john boehner has said you're not getting a clean cr. that's not coming your way. on the other side, obama said we're not negotiating. we're not using all of these moments whether it's the debt ceiling or anything else as leverage points for you to get something you want. so what breaks this impasse? >> you know, willie, it's really hard to see how any side right now has an end game, and the scary thing about this is that since 2011, you look back at this point where we are as we're approaching that same debt limit kind of deadline, threat of a default seems so much more likely now. and the catastrophic consequences for the economy are so great, no one at the white

house is sanguine about this. and it's really hard to see how this gets resolved right now before that october 17th deadline. >> yeah. you know, it's day 8, and now it's like truth or dare, or some other game like that. president obama is now telling speaker boehner to "prove that he doesn't have the votes for a funding bill." i want to get to gene on this. boehner has said it would not have a chance of passing the house, but some moderate republican congressmen like pennsylvania's charlie dent want to end the standoff and are siding with the president on letting congress vote. and by the way, this is already a give on the side of the president because it's the republican spending levels. president obama said that, saying that the republicans are getting much of what they want. >> the bill that is being presented to end the government shutdown reflects republican priorities. it's the republican budget. the funding levels of this

short-term funding bill called the cr is far lower than what democrats think it should be. so when you hear this negotiation that democrats aren't compromising, we're compromising so much we're willing to reopen the government at funding levels that reflect republican wishes, don't at all reflect our wishes. >> and, gene, as recently as september 6th, house minority leader eric cantor echoed the president's sentiments saying the funding bill at the current sequester levels would be a victory for republicans, and in a memo he wrote this. the president would be endorsing a level of spending that wipes away all the increases he and congressional democrats made while they were in charge and returns us to a pre-2008 level of discretionary spending. isn't that negotiating, to an extent? >> well, it would seem to me. >> on a fair level? >> look, the logical thing would be for republicans to declare

victory and end the war, right? but they're not ready to do that. john boehner either is from some sort of deviously subtle game or just kind of winging it every day. >> i can't figure it out. >> in any event, he's not ready to give up the leverage he has, or thinks he has at this point. so he has to say i don't have the votes for a clean continuing resolution, even though basic arithmetic suggests that the votes are there. and president obama is trying the call his bluff. the senate democrats are going to do the same i gather with the debt ceiling and try to pass a clean debt ceiling and send it over to the house. >> if they vote, that's fair, isn't it, carl? >> yes, and we just did a great fact-based thing on the air. we showed what the positions really were. this is why i say this is partly about media. it's about the ability of demagogues, back to the mccarthy

era, to get their message out. >> bing! can we have a bell every time he says joe mccarthy? >> it's very important. no, it's not a bell. it's important. >> ding! >> it's very important. it's about demagoguery. what you just did on the air with that quote from eric cantor, every newspaper in america, "the wall street journal," ought to have it on the front page. people who are republicans like nicole ought to be saying all over the place, this is what it's like. it's about truth, it's about fact. it's about a wing in our party that has no interest in truth or governing or fact and it's bringing the country down. it might not bring the party down. like mccarthy, it might work. >> ding. >> that's the terrible thing. ding. mccarthy works in this country. >> okay, so mccarthy. >> mccarthy.

ding. that's good. >> so julianna, any sense in the white house that the same people who said we will not negotiate, we will not negotiate, we will not negotiate, are starting to think oh god, 51% of americans angry with us. we may have to negotiate. >> i think one of the lessons that the white house takes from the 2011 debacle over the debt ceiling then was that by negotiating, the president actually came down to their level and rolled in the mud with the rest of them and that's why he came out so injured. so part of that explains the nonnegotiating posture. but look, there really haven't been any negotiations with republicans. what you have seen is a little bit of reaching out through third parties, through intermediaries, to try and figure out what kind of face-saving agreement or measure we could get at the end of this, whether it's a clean cr, a clean

debt ceiling, and then some sort of informal agreement down the line. but it would have to be totally informal, whether it's debt talks, the medical device tax coming back in, tax reform, something that deals with entitlements. but then you get the democratic pushback because they need to get something in return, if you have entitlements, then you have to have revenues as well and that might not be enough for boehner to be able to stomach with his caucus. >> now, in the middle of this, we're trying to get through the obama care exchanges. it's week two of those. beginning like the first week did, some technical glitches. error message for people trying to get signed up. last night the affordable care act's primary website healthcare.gov reportedly taken offline for maintenance and software updates. kathleen sebelius is trying to down play issues with the website. >> i'm going to try and download

every movie ever made, and you're going to try and sign up for obama care. and we'll see which happens first. [ laughter ] how many have signed up thus far? >> fully enrolled? i can't tell you. because i don't know. we are taking applications on the web, on the phone, we'll be giving monthly reports. but i can tell you we've had not only lots of web hits, hundreds of thousands of accounts created. >> so it's hundreds of thousands of people have signed up. >> of accounts created, which means that then they're going to go shopping. >> what? >> this is like a kayak site. >> can you run it okay? >> we will. >> the v.a.'s got huge problems. i'm concerned. >> we're not running the insurance programs. >> you're just running the enrollment. >> that's right. >> the chief technology officer says the website was built to handle about 50,000 visitors simultaneously, but 250,000 users tried to access the site during peak traffic.

his quote, these bugs were functions of volume, take away the volume, and it works. >> that's why he's supposed to be in the internet business. i ran a remembers and i ordered extra servers, when i knew there were going to be really heavy traffic like the day before election day. and it worked. this argument doesn't work. this is about the republicans want to say there's government ineptitude sometimes. they're absolutely right. there's a perfect example of it. but that's not the underlying issue. >> you just wonder why they left themselves open to this. this is a thing you have to get right because everyone else can criticize the policy. get this part of it right. >> and they've actually opted to telling members of the press that the phone number works better. i'm surprised. >> as far as somebody told me, i think i read this somewhere, and i'm sure it's true. espn's website, espn.com, gets more traffic -- >> during the tournament. >> during the men's basketball tournament. >> extra servers. >> they had to know this was

coming. it's not like they weren't warned. >> but if you look at the reason that republicans are so frustrated with what ted cruz is doing, it's because he's made it impossible for the nation to focus -- >> on this. >> on how inappropriate it is for the government to be in charge of health care. because it can't even handle the computer side of it. >> the ineptitude. >> they can't even handle the sign-ups online. >> can i address what nicole just said, though, about the government having a role in health care. >> i'll tell you what. ten seconds and please say mccarthy. >> no mccarthy. >> and then we need to go to julianna. >> the government shouldn't be involved in health care -- >> i didn't say that. you can ding all you want at me, but that's not what i said. i said the republican philosophical objection is to this vastly expanded role of the government. and running a computer is to a republican mind -- i think it reveals how inept the government is in taking over all of our

health care. >> you heard me on that, i agree. >> going to be able to handle the complexities of health care, gene robinson, tell us where we're wrong. >> this is silly. they screwed up -- they didn't get enough servers, as carl said. and apparently there's a problem with the software as well. but they'll fix it. guess what, the government does know how to run computers. the nsa, okay? that's the government. they're good at computers. >> they can take over my health care any time. >> it's ridiculous to say well, this just shows the government can't do anything. well, no, the government can do a lot of things. they got this wrong. it certainly doesn't reflect well on the computer planning process for this. but they will get it right. does anyone doubt that they will figure out how to run the computer? >> my point is this is symbolic

for republicans about how inappropriate a larger role for the government is in health care. >> i understand that. >> we're talking about ted cruz. >> love it, nsa. >> just to prove you wrong, gene -- >> oh, okay. >> "wall street journal's" headline, meltdowns hobble nsa data center. they can't even spy on their own people right. >> one fact about health care? >> carl, you are wound up. >> no mccarthy. >> hold on, julianna. we have to get one more voice in here. >> we're conducting traffic stops. a lot of people are trying to get in. >> too much caffeine. >> julianna, the white house has to be embarrassed. we talked to some people over there beforehand, and that's what i said. i said listen, i disagree with obama care, i disagree -- but if you're going to do this, you better make sure you do it right

from day one and have the servers, and they assured me that they would. here we are -- i mean, over a week out and it's botched. i don't understand why they weren't ready for the biggest bureaucratic launch in a generation. >> yeah, i don't think there's probably any real good answer to that. one upside is that there's another story that everybody is focused on and that's the shutdown and the pending debt ceiling debacle again. so that's been a distraction from these mess-ups. but look, heading into this, they said there are going to be glitches that this is just the beginning of an education campaign. so they left themselves some room here. but it is an embarrassment. this is the white house that revolutionized technology for campaigns, and they're supposed to be the 21st century white house when it comes to computer technology. so it's kind of a sore spot probably. >> they can run a campaign pretty well. >> yeah, they can.

>> a little bit like rolling out social security. and there are going to be glitches. and the other point about health care is that obama was against the public plan that would have enlarged the government role. he fought his own party. and what you ended up with was essentially the republican plan of massachusetts by romney. that's what this obama care thing is. >> all right. we've got to go to break. coming up, from the carl bernstein republican hour. >> oh, here we go. >> bill kristol. we have got the mud pit ready. carl is warmed up. mud wrestling like you've ever seen it before. and also screen writer john ridley, he's going to write a movie about this. the government shutdown is having a major impact on the race for governor for virginia. which candidate is benefiting from washington's dysfunction?

that's next. here's bill karins. he's got a check on the forecast. mr. dysfunction, right? >> where are you? >> you said it, you have your own dysfunction, but don't we all. >> what happened, mika, the judge increased distance i have to be from you now. >> i remember that. [ laughter ] >> i never saw that coming. sitting there and we're eating our hot dogs. >> it has some material. >> foot long, joe. >> oh, my goodness! >> that's it. bye-bye. >> yesterday, the airports and everything else were a mess in the northeast. we saw the airport delays when the cold front went down. also downed a lot of trees. really got ugly out there for a little while. as far as today goes, beautiful day in the northeast. a lot of leaves came down in the northeast, too. be careful out there. any wet spots. as far as the rest of the country goes, the southeast is where we still have some rain. if you're on the carolina

coastline, maybe the myrtle beach area, up to norfolk, outer banks, that's what's going to be rainy and windy and raw during the day today. as far as the forecast goes, this is going to be with us for a couple days. it will eventually go all the way to d.c. and new york city say thursday and friday. keep that in mind if you have travel plans. otherwise, you're in the middle of the country, talk about beautiful october weather. enjoy it today. chicago, minneapolis, all the way down to dallas. washington, d.c., a lot better today than yesterday. enjoy the sunshine. tomorrow looks like some rain returning. you're watching "morning joe." the american dream is of a better future,

a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪ time now take a look at the morning papers at 28 past the hour. the army times, the government shutdown is forcing the veterans

benefits administration to begin closing its regional offices today. 7,000 employees will be furloughed, which means phone lines will be closed. officials say the shutdown may cause a delay in benefit payments for november. hospitals, clinics and counselling centers will remain open. >> the enormous reports that puerto rico may be in a debt crisis worse than detroit. about $23,000 of debt per person. puerto rican officials say the territory is not yet bankrupt and they're working with u.s. officials on trying to find a solution. the minneapolis "star tribune," the 9-year-old who eluded security and boarded a plane to vegas has some prior instances of bad behavior. >> i don't know if this is bad behavior. the kid got a free trip to vegas. >> local authorities say he was arrested for stealing a car and

is flown for sneaking into a water park without paying. reports say he also scoped out his plans at the airport a day before flying, eating at an airport restaurant without paying. >> i love this kid. >> and stealing luggage from baggage claim. >> willie. >> that kid is a hustler. >> i mean, seriously, this kid -- i mean, you don't want this kid sneaking on a flight and going to tulsa. this kid was born to sneak on a flight and go to vegas. i bet he can count cards, too. >> the "new york daily news," shall we? >> oh yes, the "new york daily news" -- i'm so taken by this kid. a school in naples, florida, sent an 11-year-old student saying "she was overweight" because of her body mass index. a volleyball player, not even close to being obese. the so called fat letters have become an attempt to address

obesity. her mother says the letter sends the wrong message regarding body image to students. that is absolutely horrific. >> well, it's also incorrect. >> it's incorrect. >> "washington post," nfl officials will meet with members of the oneida indian nation who are leading the campaign to change the name of the washington redskins. the nfl is take on the issue which continues to gain national attention. this news comes days after president obama said he would think about changing the name if he were the team's owner. >> and the "l.a. times" following a printing delay of two years, the newly designed $100 bill is set to begin circulating this week. the changes include a three-dimensional security ribbon that runs through the center of the big with imprints of small bells and the number 100. >> "new york post." police released a video of a storekeeper chasing away a robbery suspect with a machete. it happened in brentwood, new

york. the deli clerk chased the suspect out of the store and through the parking lot. okay. >> that will do it! i've got a machete! i can chop your arm off. i don't think that gun was loaded. >> no arrests have been made. >> wow. >> have you ever seen mike allen's machete collection? >> it's more of a samurai sword. >> he likes them on display. he has them over his fireplace. >> unsheathes that thing, look out. the chief white house correspondent for politico is mike allen. he's got a look at the playbook. >> hello, willie. >> let's talk about the virginia governor's race. on one side, it's getting a boost from the shutdown drama on capitol hill. you guys have a new politico poll. what were you looking at there? >> this politico poll is a real canary in the coal mine for republicans for a couple of reasons. this is a poll for politico by a republican firm, a democratic

firm, shows clear movement in this virginia race. now we see the democrat clearly ahead of the republican. the shutdown, that's the biggest change since other polling. both candidates have been running ads. ken cuccinelli knew it was a problem for him. he quickly ran an ad saying the government should be open. virginia, both because of northern virginia and because of the tidewater area down in norfolk, virginia beach, lots of federal workers in virginia. we look here and we see a poll both the same result that we see on the front page of "the washington post" today in another poll. 50% -- 15 points more, blaming republicans than blame democrats. so that's part of what's driving that virginia race.

one other little -- we did a little favorability also in this poll. this will tell you something as a resident of virginia, i can tell you this definitely is the sentiment around here. you look at the favorability for both of the virginia candidates. half of people view them unfavorably. 56% for the republican candidate cuccinelli. 49% for terry mcauliffe, the democrat. one other question we threw in here. a favorability question for ted cruz, the man who started it all, the senator from texas who some people argue basically shut down the government. he has a 26% favorable rating, which is pretty terrible. but i've got to point out that's three times the favorability rating for congress itself. >> 11%, something like that. >> yes, at most. >> that poll was obviously in the state of virginia on ted cruz, but explains perfectly the story you brought us yesterday

why ken cuccinelli was running for dear life when he saw ted cruz at that event over the weekend. >> he took the money, but didn't want the photo, that's for sure. >> mike allen with a look at the playbook. thanks so much. >> have a great week. coming up, a couple of closeout chances. one for the dodgers, one for the red sox. but only one drinking champagne last night. and the jets, the new york jets, new york's team, it pains me to say it at this point, just wouldn't quit against the falcons on "monday night football." the rookie geno smith marching down the field. could they pull off the win? sports is next. when we send them off to school, we want them to be explorers -

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let's do some sports. the baseball playoffs if just saea second, but how about the new york jets in looking for a pretty big upset on "monday night football" in atlanta. geno smith, the rookie finds kellen winslow, that gives the jets a 13-point lead there. smith's third touchdown pass of the game. fourth quarter, julio jones makes this incredible one-handed catch. it set up a three-yard touchdown pass from matt ryan. the falcons go up a point.

but geno leads the team down the field. the jets in field goal range, and that is the game-winner. nick folk with three seconds on the clock. the new york jets are 3-2. give them credit. i don't think anybody saw this coming, with a rookie quarterback starting. falcons, meanwhile, fall to 1-4. playoff baseball. the dodgers looking to close out the braves in game four. atlanta with a one-run lead in the eighth. l.a.'s juan uribe at-bat with a man on second. >> that ball is drilled to left. back toward that wall and gone! and the dodgers lead. >> and the dodgers would hang on for a 4-3 victory, knocking the atlanta braves out of the playoffs. the l.a. dodgers move on to the nlcs. >> watch out for the dodgers, man. that was a good braves team. >> it was only a few months ago that people were calling for don mattingly's head, what was wrong

with the dodgers. they went out and got all these guys. >> th >> they did a great job standing pat. took on a quarter billion in salary, end up on top. >> let's go to another tight one in the a.l. red sox looking to sweep the rays at the trop. game tied at 4-4 in the ninth. >> uehara is a strike-throwing machine. in the air, right-center field. that's got a chance! >> into the aquarium. a walk-off home run keeps the rays alive. they win the game 4-3. it's now a 2-1 series. there will be a game tour bafou in tampa. you're not worried, are you? >> yeah, i am. i worry about the rays. especially winning like they won last night. when the sox go up 3-0 and then they claw their way back.

>> let's look at some photographs. here's game one. this is off the tbs broadcast. that's mike barnacle there sort of to the right. >> scowling. he is so angry. >> he's angry as john travolta glances back at him trying to say hello. >> he's like i'm watching baseball. >> barnacle has no time for baseball. >> travolta shouldn't take this personally. >> sitting next to john henry. there's joe scarborough. >> i'm trying to talk to him and he won't even look at me. >> even tom doesn't want to talk to you. >> nice seats, by the way, guys. >> yeah. that's like upper deck. a man of the people. >> hold on a second. you're wearing the same shirt. >> i've been wearing it for a week and a half. >> let's go to pittsburgh. back to the national league, the pirates with a chance to close out the cardinals. could tmatt holliday smacks a

two-run shot over the wall. st. louis's michael walka pitching a no-hitter into the eighth inning. they win 2-1. that series is even at 2-2. pittsburgh really would have liked to close this one out at home. now they go back, game five will be played in st. louis, a decisive game five. detroit. a's-tigers. oakland's brandon moss with a go-ahead solo home run to right field. a's win it 6-3. the oakland a's -- >> this is crazy. what about the a's? >> 2-1 series lead. >> that is crazy. >> they can close out that series in detroit or go back to oakland for a game five. >> a lot of people would say the detroit tigers were better set up to win a best of five series. >> verlander and scherzer. they have the pitching. but listen, oakland wins, if pittsburgh wins -- we have an awesome baseball playoffs that maybe could steal a tiny butt of attention. >> can i just say if oakland

wins and pittsburgh wins, there will be officials at fox sports jumping out of their windows. grisly deaths. >> it's good for us, though. good new energy in the playoffs. >> exactly. coming up next, last election. the republicans had a problem with women and minority voters. >> no! >> now they're in danger of losing another group. the kayly caller's matt lewis joins us next. daily caller's ma joins us next. ng out of pipe.

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hing, helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping 47 past the hour. here with us now from capitol hill, senior contributor to the daily caller and columnist for the week, matt lewis. matt, good to have you back on the show. you write that the gop is losing young christians and it's pretty

amazing. here's part of it. a couple decades ago, the christian coalition provided ground troops for the conservative movement. but today, perhaps having seen what happened to their parents' generation, many young christians are choosing to be conscientious objectors in the culture wars. some of this may be due to changing attitudes concerning hot-button social issues, but there's also a growing sense among young christians that a growing movement is a corrupting force. for christians, political involvement has a way of breaking bad. the real danger is that over a time, it has a coarsening effect, and that our political ranks and church pews alike will be filled full of walter whites who will do anything to achieve their goals. they are wise as serpents but no longer innocent as doves. for what shall it profit if he

should win the election, but lose his soul? >> you know, in 1994 i had a lot of young christians that wanted to work on my campaign. by the time i left in 2001, they were talking about aids in africa. they were talking about the hungry. i saw a sea of change even over those six, seven, eight years. and that's only continued. and your piece -- i think your piece is remarkable because it paints a real challenge for a republican party that has been built on evangelical support since 1980. >> absolutely, joe. you can't underestimate the importance of christian conservatives in helping the republican party achieve victory. from ronald reagan up until george w. bush. but in recent years, that's changed, the party's obviously becoming a little more libertarian. that's part of it. but i think part of it is also is look, there's always been this tension between the city of god and the city of man. there's nothing new about that. but i think that modern politics, where really anybody

can get on twitter and what works to be really negative, it's hard to balance that with you go to church on sunday and you're sitting in the pew and you're hearing love thy neighbor, bless those who curse you, and then you get involved in politics and it's mock the other side. >> well, i know you've seen it, but some of the harshest tweets, you go in and you look and they'll go christian conservative. and you look and then you just see this spewing of hatred. well that's not exactly the type of guys and women that i grew up with at the first baptist church in meridian or in pensacola or anywhere else. this win at all costs approach. just to be blunt, we always told ourselves that's what liberals do. and now, u., the shoe seems to be on the other foot as well. >> the irony is really i think what's happened is

conservatives -- if you read conservative blogs as i do, and follow the conservative movement, the really interesting thing is that a guy named saul olinsky, a leftist organizer out of chicago, passed away in the 1970s, but he wrote this book called "rules for radicals." he dedicated it to lucifer. basically that the ends justify a means. now it's conservatives, not liberals, who are holding this book up and emulating it. and of course, the danger, joe, is that you have people who sort of get -- this is insidious, that you get involved in politics for all the right reasons, for virtuous reasons and you slowly get sucked in, and the next thing you know, it's -- >> matt, let me bring one other thing up, and then i want to pass around the table. this is very important, too. there also is a conflict with massive cuts for the poor.

and matthew 25. there just is. and that's something -- as a member of congress, i don't believe the federal government can do what churches and communities can do. i don't think they can do it as well. but a lot of times, we're given the choice of cutting it off. i remember in the contract with america, i never said this until now, one of the items that i voted against, it was a conscientious objector to it, was like a $250 billion cut in medicaid and we were told to go out and call this welfare for medicine. a lot of poor people out there that would have suffered with those extreme cuts. i don't care being called a rhino hear. you read matthew 25, and there is a responsibility if you believe what jesus said, to figure out how to alleviate suffering in the poor, and just cutting it off without a transition doesn't really square up with matthew 25, does it? >> well, joe, i think you make a

very good point. as a conservative, i believe that there are certain things that we as individuals are called to do that the federal government isn't called to do. but as an individual, i have to care very much about the poor. i'm called to do that. and so the problem is the rhetoric. if i put on my political hat and i go before the cameras and i use rhetoric that implies that i don't care about the poor or let them eat cake, that's a problem. it doesn't mean that i think the federal government necessarily needs to be the one to solve it. but if i'm coarsening my heart and going out there with this laissez faire attitude, that says something about me as an individual. >> matt, it's nicole wallace. i want to ask you about young evangelical christians. i saw them as one of the great hopes for the republican party. they were more progressive on social issues. on immigration. >> the environment. >> on climate change. on same-sex marriage. where will they go? i mean, the coarsening that you

describe is undeniable. but these are also people who care not just about the country they live in, but the world they live in. they're globally-minded. so where are they going to go? are they disenfranchised? where are they going? >> i think if democrats field candidates like barack obama, some will go there. even though i don't like president obama's philosophy, i think that he did have this aspirational rhetoric that did appeal to young evangelicals. i think some of them have been let down by him. i think they're not going to flee the republican party en masse. i think they're just no longer going to be the ground troops for the republican party. as joe said, they're going to focus on aids in africa instead of going door to door for some candidate in the midwest. >> and by the way, that is mika -- that's a devastating loss. i can tell you my '94 campaign was run by young evangelicals that would go door to door, that

would make phone calls. and i didn't even go to churches to find them. they came to me and they ran a grass roots campaign despite the fact i was underfunded. if they stopped doing that, as matt said they're doing, that is a serious problem for the party. >> matt lewis, thank you so much. great piece. >> thank you. coming up, republican governor from louisiana bobby jindal is here. more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter...

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julianna goldman, thanks for being on the show. how is this going to end? >> take cues in the market. they're complacent right now. stock market not really react. we could have to see another tarp-like scenario like we saw in 2008 with that vote, which rattles the markets, rattles politicians and forces them to some 11th hour solution. and around that time, i'd also expect to see some sort of primetime address from the president laying out the real life consequences of a default. >> okay, that was 30, but it was valuable. >> i'm glad we gave her the extra 20. she didn't say joe mccarthy's name once. >> ding! up next, with "the weekly

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welcome back to "morning joe." carl bernstein and nicole wallace are still with us along with eugene robinson in washington. joining us from washington, the editor of "the weekly standard," bill kristol. hi, bill. >> hi there, how are you? >> i'm good. >> we hope you heard the first hour driving in to the studio with carl bernstein. >> yeah, we're ready for you

now. it's going to be a good one. >> i'll do my best to live up to your high expectations. >> we didn't say they were high. >> they're not high. we have a low bar. >> just trying to flatter myself. >> bill, we're going to read these polls and try to get our arms around exactly what it means. last hour, i suggested that the republicans in the house really had nothing to fear, nothing to lose, because, you know, they're at 70%, i think, disapproval. in their own districts, they're still pretty high, while the president's numbers go up. >> everybody is suffering. >> people that want to be republican president, they've got a lot to be worried about. governor of virginia. >> i'm going to let you and carl go. americans increasingly unhappy with the handling of the government, shutdown by all sides. 70% disapprove of how

republicans have handled budget negotiations. 61% disapprove of the democrats. 51% are unhappy with president obama's role. if-the-disapproval number for all groups are up since last month with republicans up the most. a cnn poll tells a similar story. 63% disapprove of republicans' handling of the budget. compared to 57 for democrats and 53% for president obama. a pew poll on who is to blame for the shutdown has republicans eight points over the president up from a three-point spread last month. but compare that, joe, to 1995 when public blamed congressional republicans nearly 2-to-1 over president clinton. 42% of the people want the president to make a deal ending the shutdown that includes changes to the health care plan. 44% say republicans should just make a deal without altering obama care. >> you know, bill, given the press coverage of this the past

several weeks, i expected those numbers to be much further apart. i expected republicans to be minus 20, minus 25, like we're back in '95, '96. what's your take on the poll numbers? >> yeah, it's not '95, '96 all over again. it's not a great victory for republicans either. ted cruz can be disappointed and i think president obama and his strategists can also be disappointed. if you're a republican congressman and you look at these numbers and think well, whatever hit we've taken, we've probably taken now. there's no point panicking. let's play out the shutdown. try to put pressure on harry reid to pass some of those through the senate. try to put pressure on the president to at least negotiate. and think hard about how to handle the debt ceiling, which is the trickier thing to handle and has real consequence, much more and more real consequences for the country than the shutdown. the virginia numbers, cuccinelli has run a very bad campaign and is down by nine points to the democrat terry mcauliffe. the libertarians are getting 12%

of the vote. the actual ideological -- i would think 2/3, three quarters are. so the ideological breakdown in this stage of we're full of government workdowns, the people are not more pro-government. those 12% voting libertarian don't think government should be bigger. that suggests to me, and this is a theme that joe has talked about over the weeks and months and years, actually, that the conservative libertarian alliance needs to be thought about -- i mean, the libertarian streak within the republican party, within the conservative movement is real. it needs to be attended to, i think. but that's not a point of view that's going to be happy with republicans just caving to the forces of big government. >> so big picture, look at these numbers, and the number of people that want the president to cut a deal with changes to obama care, doesn't that really allude to kind of the overall fact that republicans, bill kristol, have spent so much money bashing obama care, that they got ahead of the message?

>> i think it loses the faallud fact that obama care is a bad law. i guess we can credit the republican expenditures or credit reality. it's certainly not going to encourage republicans to give up on the attempts to delay and modify parts of obama care. >> is it a bad law, carl? >> no, it's like the beginning -- it's like the beginning of social security. it's something that we can build on and finally do something about the awful state of medical care and insurance in this country. but there's a more important point to look at about these numbers. and that is that the people of this country by and large are fed up with cultural warfare in washington especially. that piece that you showed about young christians is also about having had it with ideological responses. whether for a communist kind of left or whether a eric cantor kind of right. >> i don't know that i would --

>> the knee-jerk ideological response -- >> cantorism with 100 million people over the past century. >> no, that is very true. that is very true. only got the power that he's got and that there are others in washington that keep him from being more dangerous. >> maybe we need a bell for every time you say eric cantor's name, too. >> i think that would be a good idea. i want to ask bill something. bill, i know how you feel about what's happening right now. i think you probably think it's a good idea for the republicans to pursue the path they're pursuing. but do you think more broadly that it's not just good for a party, but for the country to use things like the raising of the debt ceiling as a political leverage point? >> yeah, i think it's legitimate to use. it has been for decades to use the raising of the debt ceiling as leverage to pursue policies

that might cause the future accumulation of debt. if we can use domestic spending, reform entitlements as a prod to do that, that would be good. i think it is crazy to keep running hundreds of billions of dollars of debt every year. having said that, look, if you could do that through regular legislation, that would be fine, too. it would be nice if the senate ever took up actual regular legislation if that the house does try to pass. it's a slightly wacky way to run a government with all these continuing resolutions and debts. but the continuing resolutions is a problem. we're supposed to have -- when i came to washington, congress actually passed appropriations bills, they went to conference. when they were resolved, the president signed them. sometimes the president vetoed them. to be fair to the house republicans, they haven't been perfect, but they have tried to pass at least some of the appropriations bills. the senate democrats -- it's an amazing fact. >> it is an amazing fact. >> they have passed zero appropriations bills. they don't even have to pretend to try to legislate anymore. >> i hear harry reid lecturing

john boehner every day about getting things done. and harry reid's senate that harry reid runs -- first of all, went four or five years without passing a budget. and this year with a democratic president, and democratic chairman and chairwomen has passed a grand total of zero appropriation bills. >> they have a chance to pass a clean cr at republican spending levels right now. >> a cr, though, is a failure in and of itself. that means that you weren't able to get regular order. that means that you couldn't run your institution, the u.s. senate or the u.s. house, without going through the regular process, that it's so dysfunctional and broken, harry reid has a majority. >> but the republicans have a chance to win something right now. and they're passing on it because they actually want to default. i mean, i don't get it. >> my point is not that the republicans are saints and i've never said they are. but please, harry reid. go back -- >> that's great. i don't disagree.

>> go back and pass -- >> what's on the table right now? >> a two-month temporary cr because harry reid didn't do his job in the senate. and because republicans didn't do their job in the house. and harry reid should really be quiet and go back and do the job that he was hired to do. and at least pass one appropriation bill and then come out lecturing us. >> but all these arguments are based on obama care and what the republicans would like to do with it. >> i don't mean to interrupt you. my argument is based on harry reid doing his business. and if he had done his job over the past year, then maybe he would have more of a right to talk. this has nothing to do with obama care. this has to do with passing a budget. passing appropriation bills. and doing what you're elected to do. >> how about a totally dysfunctional branch of government, a legislative branch of government is totally dysfunctional. it doesn't work. it's broken. and ideology is underneath why it is broken. >> anyone at the table today think the congress shouldn't try and take a vote on a clean cr?

okay. >> well, wait. why is congress the branch of government -- the president of the united states. how is that obama care -- you don't think there's a case for delaying the implementation, that those exchanges are working great, we have to dogmatically -- >> a perfect transition to eugene's piece. >> you really think this is like social security? >> absolutely. i think it's something we're going to build in -- >> ha! >> i'm glad you're laughing. >> i am laughing. >> it was actually a good laugh. >> very good, bill. >> social security was passed with bipartisan majorities in congress. social security was then modified over the years by bipartisan majorities. >> that's exactly right. it was a bipartisan -- after the initial vote on social security. >> i'm sorry, the initial vote was bipartisan on social security. >> the first report out of the congress was very one-sided. then there was a bipartisan vote. but the point is that you had

republicans in congress during a new deal who were willing to work with a democratic president to create something and build something that has helped america for the last 50 years. we know that our medical care system, including our insurance system, needs reform. obama took the republican plan, not the public plan, not the so called socialized medicine plan, bill, and he built this thing that is going to work out over time and we're going to get it right eventually. >> okay, bill. >> franklin roosevelt is rolling over in his grave to be compared to barack obama. franklin roosevelt was a serious legislator who had southern democrats, liberal republicans. people who thought you couldn't manage congress. he proved he could. won a huge re-election victory and huge off year legislative victories. barack obama lost the democratic majority in both houses of congress in 2010. couldn't get a democratic house in 2012. thank god from a conservative point of view that barack obama

is no franklin roosevelt. >> gene robinson, i heard you chiming in. you've written a piece that obama care is here, get used to it. jump in. >> well, yeah. i mean, it is happening. and the websites are working very well now. but it's law. people are going on, they're buying insurance. it's not going to be taken away. it's not going to be reversed. at some point, if the republicans ever become a national party again and win the senate and win the presidency, they could reform obama care, they could repeal the law, they could -- in order to call it something else. but there will be something else. there will be somebody else that offers reasonably priced insurance to those people who were uninsured. i think basically obama care is a huge step in the direction that the country needs to go. and by the way, bill, franklin roosevelt, for the record, was called a tyrant by the way the

right and was vilified and hated by many on the right. basically as much as barack obama is. >> franklin roosevelt did not have a 45% approval rating in his fifth year as president. >> nicole? >> bill, it's nicole. i want to ask you, picking up on gene's point, obama care's law, obviously the most efficient way to change a law is for republicans to win more senate seats, to take back the white house. at what point in your view as an observer of our party and our politics -- at what point do we cross the line where this fight makes that fight more difficult? where does this shutdown, if it gets ugly over the debt ceiling, as everyone predicts it will, where do those efforts to defund obama care, which everyone agrees is near impossible, where does that make the process of winning more senate seats and winning back the white house more difficult for our party?

>> it's complicated. i wouldn't necessarily have gone down this path or gone down it the way that some of the republicans did, but you've got to play the hand you now have. i don't think now is the time to panic. it could become very damaging to the republican party. it's not yet. and, in fact, i think in an actual senate race in arkansas, where an actual republican congressman tom cotton is running against an actual democratic senator mark pryor. this isn't theoretical how do you like the republicans, how do you like the democrats. cotton is up on the air with an ad attacking pryor for his vote to preserve the congressional exemption. we talk a lot about how things looks, the optics, national polls, but there are real votes being cast. if you're a republican challenger, you feel okay about the votes you cast. you're voting to delay the most unpopular part of the obama mandate. harry reid has forced those democratic senators to vote for both. i think the politics right now are complicated, slightly detrimental to republicans in a

national mood sort of way. but could be advantageous to actual republicans running in actual congressional districts and in senate races. but look, two weeks from now, things could be very different. this is politics. i'm not dogmatic about it. and i do think the debt ceiling is a fundamentally different situation. there i do wonder whether the speaker has in mind trying to do a clean four, six-week extension just to push it back. >> so you do disagree with republicans that are saying -- a few of them that are saying oh, we can default on the debt, that's no big deal. >> yes, i disagree with that. >> okay. mika, let me just ask you as we leave, going back to what we talked about at the top of the show. if there were a congressman or congresswoman running in central pennsylvania, with the people you talk to in central pennsylvania, would the candidate that supported obama care win that congressional race or the candidate that was doing everything he or she could do to stop and defund obama care win? >> from the people that i spoke

to, anecdotally, they're very angry about obama care. >> a lot of democrats. >> they don't understand a lot about it. and i had some long conversations, and it was possible to actually debate it. but there seems to be, i think -- republicans -- >> you said there's a lot of anger out there. >> there is. disgust. toward the government overall. and then obama care gets lumped in with that. and toward congress overall. and obama care gets lumped into that. i would argue that some of their feelings were based on facts. it was more just an overall disgust. and a winning of the message wars. you know, republicans have been running these ads over and over and over again. they have worked. they're not necessarily true. nobody really knows. >> i'm just talking about, though, you know, you can debate the merits of this. but the bottom line is at least

where you went, outside of new york -- >> absolutely, but i'm not sure that's productive. >> but that's the real world, though, when we're talking about an arkansas senate race. people can sit here and say the republican party is burning all they want. ken cuccinelli is probably going to lose. but where you have real candidates like bill kristol said, in real races and they're making it about the affordable care act. >> today. >> today. and i'm with bill. you never know how this is going to end up. >> and i think it's a risk. a huge risk. >> and i think the left -- i think the white house has to be very careful and realize, as we said to them a couple weeks ago, you never know how these things are going to turn out. >> absolutely. but the white house is standing by a law that congress passed that the president signed that the supreme court endorsed. >> i understand these talking points. >> this is unprecedented. >> i can also say the president has given over a thousand exemptions for his own health care package unilaterally.

he's exempted huge corporations. he's exempted congress itself. he's exempted a lot of friends and a lot of supporters. and so people in pennsylvania or pensacola, florida, would say you know what? i'm kind of with those guys that are saying if he's giving all those exemptions for a year to his buddies, why don't i get an exemption for a year? if the republicans could actually communicate -- >> if they could. >> that would be a hell of an argument. >> if they could step aside and just let the website crash, they would do a lot better than the destruction they're doing to the country now. and wait until we default. that will go well for them. >> bill kristol, stay with us. carl, for being here. gene, thank you as well. crazy days ahead. we'll see you all there. what's coming up next? still ahead, republican governor from louisiana bobby jindal joins the conversation. and up next, from street activist to civil rights leader, reverend al sharpton is here to

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if you want to lead, you must decide where you're going. in that chapter, i talked about how you've got to decide early and firmly what it is you are trying to do. where are you trying to be a leader? where is your direction? you can't arrive about a destination. most people go through the ride in life without a destination. and then upset that they never got anywhere. >> here with us now, host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action

network, reverend al sharpton. he's out now with a new book "the rejected stone: alsharpton and the path to american leadership." >> i love the title. talk about the biblical illusion. >> 118 psalms talks about how the stone that the builder rejected becomes the corner stone of the new building. my new become is about how we watch the country now be led by those who would have been rejected. you have a black president from a single parent home. you have latino woman on the supreme court. and this transformation of the country. but also how i transformed as the country transformed. i grew up rejected from a single-parent home. felt rejected by my father. i talked about fighting with the elders of the church who never wanted me to go into civil rights. and in the civil rights movement, some of the older guard that didn't like my northern urban style. so i think that all of us can learn to grow and not be afraid to grow.

the book is about dealing with your rejection complex and not being afraid to grow and become bigger and be the person you want to be. it's more about life lessons and society lessons. >> also joining us at the table, screen writer john ridley is back. >> boy, look at that guy. >> the coolest outfit i've ever seen. >> thank you very much. >> never looked so good. this is a "morning joe" original. we're talking 2007 secaucus, new jersey, taking phone calls from pat buchanan. >> yes. walter isakson. >> there's nothing more to be done. >> good to see you again. >> thank you very much. nice to be back. very good to see you again, reverend. >> good to see you, john. >> so talk about your growth. talk about your growth. you obviously are not the same man that you were in the 1990s, 1980s. talk about it. >> even as a child. >> i think you've got to become

more deliberate. i think most people want the hold on and say i haven't changed. well, if times have changed and you haven't changed, then something's wrong with you. i think you learn how to do what you do better. i'm committed to social justice and civil rights. that's my calling in life. but do i care enough about it to do it better and be more effective and have more than one strategy and not just react, but have a strategy to act? so i still march. i mean, as you know, joe, from the trayvon martin case. but i also know how to sit at the table and deal with more than just name-calling and back and forward. i talk in the book about my experiences with the president, my experiences from michael jackson to james brown. lessons i learned along the way. >> a lot of people don't know what happened in the trayvon martin case. you sat down with leaders, with people who disagreed with you and just hey, no matter what

happens, there's going to be peace. i mean, that was -- you were as concerned about that as anything, weren't you? >> and the reason i was, and i should have done that probably more in my younger days, though i was never one to advocate violence. i think you have to make it a point to say we've got to be nonviolent. because if you really want to push your cause, part of your cause is how it was portrayed to the public and the message you're getting across. and i used to have the attitude i don't care what people think, we got to do what's right. well, you have to care what people think if you want is right to occur. you can't antagonize the public and then appeal for them to understand your cause. so that's why in florida, i said the worst thing that can happen here is we become like what we're fighting. and we took time to do that. >> let's go to another case, if i could, and that is the one of tawana brawley, who accused a

group of black men of raping her. you came to her case and it was found that her claims were fabricated. how does this fit into her life? >> i think that what i learned in brawley, i would respond the same way. but what i wouldn't do is get into a back and forward name calling with the prosecutor and go for the quick from the hip kind of flippant attitude with the press. you learn to do what you do better. like he just raised about george zimmerman's case. or any number of cases. sean bell cases. whereas 25 years ago, it was i don't care what you think, i feel i'm right, i feel that i've got to do what i've got to do. now i'm not talking to the prosecutor -- i may think it's unfair. i'm talking to the public. if i'm going to represent a young lady, young man or stand up for a cause, i owe it to them to make sure that i give the

best public display of why we're concerned about a given situation. >> do you regret at all what you put some of the men through in that case, the guys who turned out to be innocent? >> people ask today did i apologize to george zimmerman? why would you regret standing up for someone -- >> not to george zimmerman. i'm talking about brawley. >> i'm absolutely talking about her. brawley made a claim -- bill cosby and everybody rallied around it before i did. why would i say that i should not come to the defense of someone who had made a claim and those that had been accused never would come forward before in the grand jury at that time that we got involved. so in any case, right around the brawley case, i got involved with central park. 13 years later, i was proven right. i was universally condemned for getting involved in the central park case. same time period. so i think any of the cases we get involved with, we're not the investigators. we have the basis of coming in

based on we feel that there's been a civil rights -- >> but knowing what you know now. >> well, what do i know now, that a grand jury didn't believe her? a jury didn't believe trayvon martin's case. >> so you believe -- >> i believe that there was enough reason to go to court on that case, which is what we advocate, just like i believed in other cases. once it had gone to court -- you got to remember the same prosecutor came after me on situations that i knew was wrong. why would i believe the jury that he used there? so i think again, this book is not about all of that. this book is about how you do things. but i think that the basis of a case, you've got people right now, willie, that says he shouldn't have gotten involved in duke lacrosse. i didn't get involved in that. not one time. never went to north carolina. but people get carried away in the emotions because they just broad stroke, rather than say well, wait main, if there's a claim there and people are being denied their right for redress,

why wouldn't civil rights leaders respond? that's what we're about. but rather than explain that, i used to just call you a name, keep going. >> i don't mean to belabor this, but it is part of the book and it's stuff a lot of people are going to ask you about. so you don't believe that the brawley case was a hoax? >> i believe that the basis of our involvement of saying that this prosecutor should have moved forward and brought this into court was absolutely the right position to take. and that was the position we took. >> john ridley. >> for me, reverend, and i lived in new york a long time ago, you've always been a person of stature. a lot of people, this book is addressed to other rejected stones. i look at you and say here's a man who started somewhere and went somewhere. if you're someone sitting at home, doesn't have a platform, how do they take your message and actually activate it? how do they go from being someone who's completely

rejected, has no platform, nowhere to go, to actually changing their life? >> it has nothing to do with a platform. people are rejects in their own family. people are rejects in their own workplace. people getting ready to go to work now feel rejected. what do you do? these are lessons i've learned from people that have had to deal with it in everyday life. i was a boy preacher. i showed the fliers in the book. i couldn't get along with other classmates because i was considered weird. and you've got to be able to embrace yourself, see yourself as something that may be rejected by others. >> what did james brown see in you? >> i don't know. i met james brown when i was a teenager. his son got killed and he kind of adopted me. and he became like the father that left me, that rejected me. i think he saw a kid that wanted acceptance and he wanted to have somebody that believed in him. >> how much did your father

leaving and rejecting you, how much did that shape your life then? how much does it still shape your life today? >> i think that my father leaving shaped a lot of my life that i didn't want to admit. i was in denial because i spent many years, probably decades seeking a father figure. and you never get that hole that is in you filled. and i think by seeking other father figures, i learned from people a lot more intently than i would have because i wanted to be them. james brown once on an airplane said to me, joe, i want you to do your hair style like mine. so a lot of people say to me why does he wear his hair like that? this was the first time in my life a man wanted me to be like him. that validated me, it meant a lot to me. so you become a lot of things because of a lot of the demons you're fighting inside. that's what rejected stone is about. >> if i do my hair like that, will i be able to dance like

james brown? >> why don't we first do your hair and then we'll see. >> no, no, no. the book is "the rejected stone: al sharpton and the path to american leadership." thank you very much. we'll see you on "politics nation." >> mika's favorite show. >> connie chung is on tonight. >> get out! >> she's going to interview me for one segment. >> i'm watching that. still ahead, she became a house hole name on "friday night lights" and is now enjoying rave reviews in "nashville." connie britton will join us on "morning joe." stay with us. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern.

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up next, republican governors are taking a stand against the dysfunction in washington. one of those governors, louisiana's bobby jindal joins the table, next. when we send them off to school, we want them to be explorers -

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no-charge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering a live look at washington, d.c. looks like a nice day there. republican governor of louisiana and chairman of the republican governors association, governor

bobby jindal. good to have you back on the show. >> thank you for having me. good morning. >> nicole, i hand you the first question. >> what an honor. i've heard you say that you don't want to be critical of fellow republicans. i think in tone, that's the right idea. but why not give our party some straight talk? why not point out what is helpful and what is not helpful when you're running a state, and you know exactly how the partisan politics play out in the real world, if you will. >> absolutely. what we said is i'm not interested in second-guessing tactics, but part of the rationale behind this, where we've got 30 republican governors. we said we're going to stop outsourcing our brand in washington, d.c., because if you want to see conservative ideas being applied, it's not happening in d.c. >> don't you have to shush them a little bit if you want to take back ownership of the republican brand? >> we're absolutely starting paid advertisements to do that. and so, for example, if you want to see school choice, balanced budgets, tax cuts, folks taking on public pension, governors taking on the government unions,

it's happening in state capitals. you see governors like rick scott and rick snider and scott walker taking on the tough challenges and then having great results. you're seeing unemployment rates one point below in democratic-led states. top ten states according to ceo magazine led by republican governors. so absolutely, it's important for us to say -- for too long we've let d.c. define our brand. we're going to stop doing that. >> how, though? they're drowning you out. >> well, we've done the policies. now it's about calling attention to the policy results. >> will you come every week and tell us about it? >> maybe not every week. that's a real problem. >> my concern is that -- i agree with you. i think the next republican president comes from a governor's mansion. how do we drown out the chaos in washington, though? >> a big part of the challenge is governors have day jobs. most of us aren't near the media capitals. we're not near l.a. a lot of these reforms aren't getting covered. the reason they're doing so well in blue states, red states is in part voters see the results. they see the improving schools,

they see the improving economies. they see the improving government finances. they see that governors are making the tough choices. it's not happening in d.c. it's not happening in the white house. so you're right, governors i think have to speak with a lot of voice. historical historically, we have elected governors to raise money. >> and to follow up on that -- >> fairly dickinson university. >> there's a great example, john ridley. there's such a disconnect between washington republicans and republicans running states from wisconsin to new jersey to louisiana to florida. >> my question would be, though -- i use the word "against" lightly. but is it so much republicans against democrats, or is it more politicians in a local area against washington? people tend to be very happy with their local representative. their state representatives. but once it gets out in washington, i think at this point, it doesn't matter if you're democrat or republican. you look at what's going on, they're not getting the services they probably get in your state.

>> i think that's right. i think there's a lot of just general frustration at the dysfunction in d.c. i think there's also a lot of frustration in the lack of leadership coming out of the white house. it doesn't have to be that way. joe was there, i was there for a brief time. but you remember the last time, had real bipartisan progress on a very important domestic policy issue was actually welfare reform. it was done twice by a republican congress. vetoed twice by a democratic president. the president showed leadership and actually tried to find common ground. d.c. can work. it's not working right now. i personally think we need structural changes. i don't think it's just who we send there. i think we need a super majority vote before they raise taxes. everybody is focused on the debt ceiling. the real crisis is the debt. i think the frustration for the american people, we've seen this movie, two years ago we had this debate. nothing got resolved. we were told now is not the time. two years later, we're in the exact same place. if we kick the can down the road, nothing is going to change. at the local level, what's amazing is you have republican governors in corporal states

like new mexico, nevada, wisconsin, that don't even have credible opponents. you've got republican governors in red states and in blue states doing amazing reforms. i think what voters are saying is show us the results. and all of those cases where governors took on tough challenges, whether it was chris in jersey or rick in michigan or rick scott in florida, their numbers dipped originally, and pundits said oh, this is the end of the world. people saw the results and now those governors are doing very well. >> it's amazing. the most important question, are you coming to tuscaloosa in november? >> november 9th. >> we're inviting you there. we slouhould do the show there. >> exactly. governor bobby jindal. >> that is the most important college football game in the entire country. alabama and lsu. >> all right. >> thank you, governor. >> thank you so much for being on. up next, did you know that connie britton was once roommates with a current u.s. senator? >> really? >> we'll find out which senator it was when she joins us next. >> wasn't ted cruz. >> no. >> let's see. who else is there?

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at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. get up to $140 in mail-in rebates when you buy four select tires with the ford service credit card. where'd you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer.

highway 65 and i have a verbal agreement. >> my lawyers, plural, don't see it that way. look, we don't have to fight about this. will can make his choice.

i am not forcing him. >> is this really how you want to start with me? >> your fledgling is not the right place for an artist with will's potential. >> my fledgling label? yesterday it was the future of fledge hill. >> i think your back catalog is where i want my money. >> my back catalog. will lexington, not scarlet? >> it's not personal. >> i'm not letting you take will from me. >> west best of luck. >> i make my own luck. >> here with us now the show's co-star, connie witten, who's working with ponds as a spokesperson. that's a skin caroline. but her hair -- >> i could not do it. >> her hair has a twitter accoun >> that's what they tell me. >> your hair -- your sweater. >> is that okay for me to say? >> i don't know it. i don't twitter. tweet. it's a verb, right?

>> while we're on it, you were kirsten gillibrand's roommate in college. >> yes. >> i'm glad you don't remember my brother, who was at college with you too. >> i don't. >> he was going through his weight lifting stage in college. >> talk about "nashville." >> talk about keirsten. what was she like as a roommate, really messy, right? >> more interesting is she was my inmate in china. we started chinese together. she was specifically my roommate in china so we shared a dorm room in beijing, which consisted of basically a kind of concrete room and two straw mats. >> you've got to have some stories. >> i do have a lot of stories. i have some amazing stories. a couple of which i can't tell. >> that's no fun. >> we did, however -- we were there over the summer so, we were there over 4th of july, and the american embassy had a big 4th of july party. and which part of that was was

doing a lip sync contest. and keirsten and two other girlfriends of ours who were in the china program did a ma dan no song, can't remember which one it was, but let me just say we won the contest. >> oh! >> 4th of july. >> i have a mental image right now. >> let me jump in because i have a question having just worked on a music show. to do "nashville," it's hard enough, and i don't think people know how difficult acting is both as a skill and just as -- on an artistic level. to act, to sing, to do it on a weekly basis and to do it so well. tell us about the production of "nashville" and particularly working in nashville, which if you have not been is amazing. >> it is really amazing, yeah. that's really -- it's so nice to hear a writer acknowledge these things. but, you know, we also, by the way, have the best job in the world, so it's -- sometimes we'll complain about the hours, but you can't ever complain about the job because the job is

amazing. but "nashville" is very ambitious, the show. the town is welcoming and has m embraced us amazingly. we are shooting 14 to 16 hours a day, doing musical performances, singing our own songs. for me it was a steep learning curve because i hadn't sung in a very long time. >> you sang previously. >> i did, but i never recorded anything. just done musical theater -- >> and now your songs go straight to itunes. >> it's amazing. >> i'm on albums. >> by the way, a great revenue stream for a lot of tv shows. >> they sell their music. >> it is. >> you're revered for your work but also for the person you are off stage and off camera. i want to know what you think about some of the actresses who seem to be making missteps not necessarily in their work but in

their life. how have you struck that balance where you're so respected on stage for your work and also in life? >> i have to say -- yeah. i have to -- >> not naming names. >> i have to say that i actually consider myself sort of a late bloomer. i really didn't get my big break until my late 20s. and i went to college, you know, i went -- i studied chinese. i really believe -- my parents always believed education was the most important thing and i wept to college and always dreamed of being an actor but even when i was studying in china i said even if i end up being an actor this will hold me in good stead. i was very fortunate then to have a lucky break and then to sort of work my way through, and i've always had a very strong consciousness about the voice i wanted to put out into the world. and so -- but i think that it's tough when you start really young. >> i think so too.

>> especially now. i didn't grow up in the -- now it's all the media blitz and the screen obsession and the obsession with being seen and being famous. and, you know, when i grew up, everybody -- it felt like the people you really respected were mysterious. and everybody wasn't doing interviews 24 hours a day, you know. there was a sense of mystery and sort of decorum about the whole thing and people really creating characters. and that's been lost. and i think that's making a big difference. >> thank you so much. i love what you went to. >> well. >> a writer and actress about to connect. >> all right. so great to meet you. thank you so much for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> coming up, brand-new polls show americans are fed up with virtually all of washington as the shutdown drags into week two. but how does that compare to 1995? "morning joe" returns in just a moment.

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the president is stubbornly refusing to negotiate on obama care even though the republicans have been very flexible. >> i'd like to repeal every word of the law. but that wasn't my position even in this fight. my position in this fight was we should defund it. and even now what the house of representatives has done is a step removed from defunding. it's delaying it. >> we've been pretty reasonable as we've worked through this

process. i've heard the reference to a full delay or a full repeal to now just saying, mr. president, can we not just have one year delay? >> we said what about a one-year delay? we've been offering compromise after compromise, but you hear from the president and his men and his women, no negotiation. >> no negotiation. even though every one of those offers is a compromise from the republicans' initial offer having mitt romney be president. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. >> beautiful. >> wake um now. >> i'm not going to. >> come on now. >> look how beautiful it is in new york. >> back with us on set, we have nicole wallace, carl bernstein, and in washington eugene robinson and juliana goldman. americans are increasingly unhappy with the handling of the government shutdown by all sides as joe alluded to. according to a "washington post"/abc news poll, 70%

disapprove of how republicans have handled budget negotiations. 61% disapprove of the democrats, and 51% are unhappy with president obama's role. the disapproval number for all groups are up since last month with republicans up the most. a cnn poll tells a similar story. 63% disapprove of republicans' handling of the budget compared to 57% for democrats and 53% for president obama. a pew poll on who is to blame for the shutdown has republicans eight points over the president, up from a three-point spread last month. but compare that to 1995 when the public blamed congressional republicans nearly 2-1 over president clinton. the pew poll also found 42% of people want the president to make a deal, ending the shutdown, that includes changes to the health care plan. 44% say republicans should just make a deal without alters obama care. >> it's very interesting, isn't

it? you tell me what's your take on the poll and, as you saw these polls, you were telling me about you going to pennsylvania. >> yes. i was in lincoln over the weekend. >> with jim's friends and family members. you said there was just anger about obama care. >> absolutely. >> anything about barack obama. >> many of them work for small businesses and bigger companies on midlevels, and they feel like it's really going to hurt them. but i'm personally not surprised by these poll numbers. i think when something like this happens everyone suffers and i'm sure the white house expects that at this point. i think the bigger picture is at what point do you look at the polls and you think about the future politically and at what point do you do what's right or wrong. you can't have this law taken hostage by a small group of republicans and changed. what does that mean for the future of our democracy if they can do this? >> apparently a lot of americans agree with those small groups of republicans. we knew coming into this, carl, both sides would be hurt.

the white house knew the last time they were down in the low 40s was the last time we had this sort of budget shutdown. but there is an asymmetry to those number, aren't there, because these republicans reading these polls that say 70% of americans are against us see polls in their own district that show 70% of my constituents, who are going to decide whether i'm here next time or not, are for me so, let's just drive barack obama's numbers even more until, you know, i get down in the low 60s. you know? that's the asemitri. that's the problem the white house has to deal with right now, right? >> yes, but we're also in a great cultural moment, political, pivotal moment. i compared it last to week to joe mccarthy. this is about the republican party and that it's going to be. is it going to conduct a fact-based, philosophical argument in our political system or is it going to be a nihilistic, hateful asymmetrical in terms of facts and the truth

part of the party as in joe mccarthy? this is about media as well. these poll numbers are about a totally different media culture than we've had in the past. as you see in that clip from comedy central, we need to start covering this story not 50/50, this much on this side, that on the -- we need to cover it factually, because there are facts here that will show what this event is about and where, in fact, is this anger, hatred of obama coming from, what is the root of this. "the new york times" did a great story the other day about how this wing of the republican party, call it the mccarthy wing, call it the eric cantor wing, whatever you want to call it -- >> ted cruz. >> -- has been gearing up for this. >> i've been patient. >> i know. >> playing the role, because we teamed up last time. >> we did. you came after me. >> i let -- >> but it was good. i liked it. >> i gave you 12 joe mccarthy

references. >> six already. >> important because it's the only comparable time since joe mccarthy we've had this in the republican party. and who in the party going to appease him? >> get a move on now, playing the role of bill crystal this morning, nicole wallace. >> nicole. come after me, nicole. >> seriously, if you -- let's look at this from where you looked at it, from the white house communication director. and, you know, there's an old proverb that says beware the man with nothing to lose. these house republicans have nothing to lose. they're very popular in their own district. if i saw 51% of americans were angry at bill clinton back in 1995, i old turn to my friends and say step on it, boys. >> right. >> we're going to drive him into the 30s and -- i'm just saying, the machiavellian approach, that's what those guys have to be thinking this morning looking at these polls. >> and i bet their numbers

aren't just high in their district. i bet that if you poll conservatives nationally these are the hometown heroes of the conservative movement. i bet when you look at the early poll numbers in the early primary states at the top of the list will be the republicans viewed by media. >> now, you and i both know the great irpny of this is these hometown heroes who will hold onto the house will also make it next to impossible for our candidate in 2016 to be to beat hillary in the suburbs of philadelphia. >> well, unless that candidate does what some of -- >> like chris christie. >> chris christie. >> play bad cop to chris christie. >> and there are republicans in congress who have been critical of this approach. there are house republicans showing up on television who are talking about a very different tune in their district, congressman danton on tv last night. but let's leave hate out of it just for a second.

i know that won't last for too long with you, carl. >> i have sound bites here. >> it's more fundamental. defining the republican party isn't about haters and lovers. it's about governing and not governing. and there is a group -- and you can condemn their motives and you can condemn the outcome, but there's a group that is simply not interested in governing, and that is the divide in the republican party. >> very well put. ? they don't fracture on ideological lines abuse i'd i don't imaginally we as a party are on the same page. we do not believe obama care is the right way to reform the health care system. there is no divide in the republican party but a great and bleeding wound now over whether we as a party are meant to govern. >> that's why i called them nihilists. >> and by the way, willie, you know, if you're a libertarian -- >> it's so fun when carl's here. >> i love carl. we love carl. but think about it. i mean, this would be -- i don't

know what the democratic equivalent would be, the liberal kwismt would be. i guess it would be like, hey, listen, if we do nothing, if the government remains in this state, then just billions and billions and billions of dollars of new federal spending are going to be spent every day. and we're going to keep spending and we're going to keep spending and we're going to keep spending, create new programs, you know, build new -- you know, think about it. if you're a libertarian and you've squeezed it with a sequester, and even with the cr you go back to pre-2008 levels, you're sitting here going, you know, let's see how long we can play out this government shutdown. again, not about hate. but just about a governing or a nongoverning philosophy. >> it's true on a political front, i guess. those are victories. but you'd like to think there are some people who are thinking a little larger than winning political points in their district, given the fact now nine days till october 17th when we hit the debt ceiling.

let's bring in our washington contingent. juliana goldman, where's the white house sitting on this right now? i mean, obviously john boehner has said you're not getting a clean cr. that's not coming your way. on the other side president obama says we're not negotiating, not using all of these moments, whether it's the debt ceiling or anything else, as leverage points for you to get something you want. so what breaks this impasse? >> you know, willie, it's really hard to see how any side right now has an end game. and the scary thing about this is that since 2011 you look back at this point where we are as we're approaching that same debt limit kind of deadline. the threat of the default seems so much more likely now. and the catastrophic consequences for the economy are so great, no one at the white house is sanguine about this. and it's really hard to see how this gets resolved right now before that october 17th deadline. >> yeah. you know, it's day eight, and

now it's like truth or dare or some other game like that. president obama is now telling speaker boehner to, quote, move from he doesn't have the votes for a funding bill. i want to get to gene on this. boehner has said a bill that does not defund or delay the affordable care act would not have a chance of passing the house. but some moderate republican congressmen like pennsylvania's charlie dent want to end the standoff and are siding with the president on letting congress vote. and by the way, this is already a give on the side of the president because it's the republican spending levels. president obama said that, saying that the republicans are getting much of what they want. >> the bill that is being presented to end the government shutdown reflects republican priorities. it's the republican budget. the funding levels of this short-term thing called the cv far lower than what democrats think it should be. so when you hear this notion that democrats aren't

compromising, we're compromising so much, we're willing to reopen the government at funding levels that reflect republican wishes, don't at all reflect our wishes. >> and, gene, as recently as september 6th, house minority leader eric cantor echoed the president's sentiments saying the funding bill, the current sequester levels, would be a victory for republicans. in a memo, he wrote, "the president would be endorsing a level of spending that wipes away all the increases he and congressional democrats made while they were in charge and returns us to a pre-2008 level of discretionary spending." isn't that negotiating to an extent? >> well, it would seem to me. >> on a fair level? >> but, look, the logical thing would be for republicans to declare victory and the war, right? but they're not ready to do that. john boehner either is playing some sort of deviously subtle

game or just kind of winging it every day and making it up as he goes along. but in any event, he's not ready to give up the leverage he has or thinks he has at this point. so he has to say i don't have the votes for a clean -- a continuing resolution even though basic arithmetic suggests the votes are there and president obama's trying to call his bluff and say, you know, it's the senate democrats who are going to do the same i gath we are the debt ceiling and try to pass a clean debt ceiling and send it to the house and see what they do. >> in the middle of all this we're trying to get through the obama care exchanges, get those up and running. some technical glitches, error messages for people trying to get signed up. last night the affordable care act's primary website, healthcare.gov, reportedly taken offline for maintenance and software updates. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius is one of several white house officials trying to down play

issues with the website. >> going to do a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made and you're going to try and sind up for obama care and we'll see which happens first. >> okay. >> how many have signed up thus far? >> fully enrolled? i can't tell you. >> yeah. >> because i don't know. we are taking applications on the web, on the phone. we'll be give moogly report, but i can tell you we've had not only lots of web hit, hundreds of thousands of accounts created, we have -- >> hundreds of thousands of people have signed up. >> of accounts created, which means then they're going to go shopping. john, this is like -- >> what? >> a kayak site. >> can you run it okay? >> yes. we will. >> the va has huge problems. i'm concerned. >> we're not running the insurance programs. we're running -- >> just running the enrollment. >> that's right. >> the chief technology officer says the website was built to handle about 50,000 visitors

simultaneously, but 250,000 users tried to access the site during peak traffic. his quote, "these bugs were functions of volume. take away the volume, and it works." >> that's why you're supposed to be in the internet business. i ran a website. i ordered extra servers when i knew there were going to be really heavy traffic like the day before election day. and it worked. this argument doesn't work. this is about the republicans want to say there's government ineptitude sometimes. they're absolutely right. it's a perfect example of it. but that's not the underlying issue. >> you just wonder why they left themselves open to this. this is the thing you have to get right because everyone else can criticize the policy but get this part right. >> they've omted to telling members of the press that the phone number works better. so i'm surprised. >> as far as somebody told me, i think i read this somewhere, and i'm sure it's true, espn's website, espn.com gets more traffic -- >> during the tournament.

>> the men's basketball tournament. >> extra servers. >> than this. they had to know this was coming. it's not like they weren't warned. >> but if you look at the reason that republicans are so frustrated with what ted cruz is doing, it's because he's made it impossible for the nation to focus -- >> on this. >> -- on how inappropriate it is for the government to be in charge of health care, because it can't even handle the computer side of it. >> the ineptitude. >> they can't even handle the sign-ups online. >> can i address what nicole just said, though, about the government being -- >> having a role in health care? >> ten seconds and please say mccarthy. >> no mccarthy. >> then we need to go to juliana. >> the government shouldn't be involved in health care and like -- >> carl, i didn't say that. you can ding all you want at me. that's not what i said. i said the republican philosophical objection is to this vastly expanded role of the government in the delivery of health care and running a computer is to a republican mind

i think it reveals how inept the government is in taking over all our health care. >> you heard me. i agree. >> handle the complexities of health care. gene robinson, tell where you say we're wrong. >> this is silly. they screwed up the -- they didn't get enough server, as carl said, and apparently there's a problem with the software as well. but they'll fix it. >> coming up on "morning joe" -- has the nfl worked hard to avoid responsibility for the soaring number of players suffering from brain injuries? we'll talk to the producers behind front line's new documentary "league of denial," the nfl concussions and the battle for truth. and next the government shutdown is helping one of the candidates in the closely watched virginia governor's race. another installment of the politico playbook is ahead. but first, why don't you toss to him? i'm scared. >> does anybody feel comfortable tossing to bill karins? >> i don't. i need a restraining order.

>> is miley cyrus here? >> it's time for bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill, i hope you're not on a wrecking ball. >> nice. a little old weatherman making the great mika brzezinski and joe scarborough nervous? mission accomplished. new jersey took the brunt of the storm yesterday. this was primarily what happened. we didn't see many tornadoes but there were a lot of trees that fell, a lot of big oak trees, too, that caused some problems. hoping those without power will be getting it back on soon. the reward is what we're having today. a beautiful air mass. you can see new york city, a gor jouls picture-perfect top ten fall day. this swarmt is just crazy in the middle of the country. it's just gorgeous out there. look at minneapolis. 78 degrees and sunny. this is the middle of october. you should be in the 50s, maybe 60s if you're lucky. there is some rain out there. it's going to be right along the southeast coast over the next cup dales but overall it's

looking nice. anyone who has a baseball interest, detroit looks good today, and st. louis tomorrow, that night game, your weather looks fantastic too. major league baseball outdoor games. you're watching "morning joe." [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance

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time now to take a look at the morning papers at the "army times." the government shutdown is forcing the benefits administration to begin closing its regional offices today. 7,000 employees will be furloughed, which means phone lines will be closed. officials say the shutdown may cause a delay in benefit payments for november. hospitals, clinic, and counseling centers will remain open. >> and "the new york times" rorpts puerto rico may be on the verge of a debt crisis worse than detroit. currently the territories racked up $87 billion in debt compared with $18 billion in detroit. that's about $23,000 of debt per person. puerto rican officials say the territory is not yet bankrupt and they're working with u.s. officials on trying to find a solution. >> from our parade of paper, the "minneapolis star tribune," the 9-year-old who alluded security and boarded a flight to vegas without a ticket has some prior instances of bad behavior. >> i don't know that willie and

i would consider this to be bad behavior. he got a free trip to vegas. >> local authorities say he was arrested for stealing a car and is known for sneaking into a water park without paying. reports say he also scoped out his plans at the airport a day before flying, eating at an airport restaurant without paying. >> i love this kid. >> and stealing luggage from baggage claim. >> willie. >> that kid is a hustler. >> seriously, this kid -- i mean you don't want this kid sneaking on a flight and going to tulsa. this kid was born to sneak on a flight and go to vegavegas. i bet he can count cards, too. >> seriously. >> "the new york daily news" -- i'm so taken by this kid. a school in naples, florida, say an 11-year-old student lily grasso was sent home with a letter saying she was, quote, overweight because of her body mass index. the 5'5" volleyball player weighs 124 pounds and is

actually not close to being obese. the so-called fat letters have become a staple in many states as schools attempt to address obesity. her mother says the letter sends the wrong message regarding body image to students. that is absolutely horrific. >> it's also incorrect. >> it's incorrect. >> a mistake. "washington post," nfl officials will meet with members of an indian nation leading the campaign to change the name of the washington redskins. the nfl is taking on the issue which continues to gain national attention. this news comes days after president obama said he would think about changing the name if he were the team's owner. >> and the "l.a. times" following a printing delay of two years. newly designed $100 bill is set to begin circulating this week. the bills have new security features on it that make it harder to counterfeit. changes include a three-dimensional security ribbon that runs through imprints of small bills and the number 100. >> "new york post."

police released a video of a storekeeper chasing away a robbery suspect with a machete. it happened at a store in new york. the deli clerk whipped out a machete and chased the suspect out-of the store and through the parking lot. >> that'll do it. got a gun. i have a machete! i can chop your arm off. i don't think that gun was loaded. >> no arrests have been made. >> wow. >> wow. >> hey, willie, have you ever seen my machete collection? >> more of a samurai sword. >> yeah. he likes them on display. likes them over his fireplace. >> unsheath that thing. look out. the chief correspondent for political coe is mike allen. >> hey, willie. >> good to see you. let's talk about the virginia govern governor's race. on one side it's getting a boost from the shutdown drama on capitol hill. you have a new political poll. what were you looking at there? >> this political poll is a real

canary in the coal mine for republicans for a couple of reasons. this is a poll for politico by sources that a democratic firm, a republican firm, shows clear movement in this virginia race. we see the democrat terry mcauliffe clearly ahead of ken cuccinelli, ten point, nine points depending on whether or not you throw in the libertarian. this is real movement and the most logical explanation is the shutdown. that's the biggest change since other pollinging in this race. both candidates have been running ads about the shutdown. ken cuccinelli knew it was a problem for him. he quickly ran an ad saying that the government should be open. virginia both because of northern virginia and because of the tidewater area down norfolk, virginia beach, lots of federal workers in virginia. we look here and we see the same result that we see on the front page of "the washington post" today and another poll.

50%, 15 points more, blaming republicans than blame democrat, part of what's driving that virginia race. we did a little favorability also in this poll. this will tell you something as a resident of virginia, i can tell you this definitely is the sentiment around here, you look at the favorability for both of the virginia candidates. half of people view them unfavorably. 56% for the republican ken cuccinelli. 49% for terry mcauliffe, the democrat. one other question we threw in here. a favorability question for ted cruz, the man who started it all, the senator from texas who some people argue basically shut down the government. he has a 26% favorable rating which is pretty terrible, but i've got to point out that's three times the favorability rating for congress itself. >> 11%, something like that? >> yes.

at most, yeah. >> so that poll was obviously in the state of virginia and ted cruz but explains the story you brought us yesterday, why ken cuccinelli was running for dear life when he saw ted cruz at the event over the weekend. >> took the fmoney but didn't want the photo. next up, is the nfl doing enough to confront the concussion crisis? we'll talk with the producers of "league of denial." ♪ [ male announcer ] no success is overnight. ♪ it's about working harder... ♪ and smarter. ♪ it's the culmination of a million decisions... it's where you see yourself going...

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in football, one has to expect that almost every play of every game, every practice, they're going to be hitting their heads against each other. that's the nature of the game. those things seem to happen around 1,000 to 1,500 times a year. each time that happens it's around 20 g or more. that's the equivalent of driving a car at 35 miles per hour into a brick wall. 1,000 to 1,500 times per year.

>> for mike webster, the head hit just kept on coming, for 17 years. >> you have to survive so you learn the methods to survive and the best at survival in that environment. the minute you put your pads on. you're only one play away from getting seriously injured. >> okay. that was a clip from the new front line documentary, "league of denial," about the nfl's concussion crisis, airing tonight on pbs. everyone should watch it. joining us now the authors of the book, the documentary is based on, mark feigner and steve ridley. brian shactman with us as well. >> mark, i always go back to something that jim miklaszewski told me when he was a reporter in dallas. he went out and was watching the cowboys practice with tom

landry. he said, this isn't the game that i came into. they're too fast. they're too strong. it's too lethal. >> well, it's interesting. i was telling people as a reporter the first time i got a chance to watch a game on the sidelines it was so eliminating. it's watching an entirely different game. what you see on television, what you watch in the stands, it's not the same sport. the game is so fast, the players are so strong, it's so loud and maybe the little one-yard run up the middle that looks like nothing on television is startling. >> the level of violence to the human body. it's just reached unsustainable proportions. >> and i say this as a kid that grew up, you know, playing football, organized football from the time i was 6 years old. >> yeah. they've studied the amount of force that's general rated by nfl football. and he's documented that the amount of i can nettkinetic ene

generated at the line of scrimmage has essentially doubled over the last several decades. he equates it to basely loading a revolver chamber into the line of scrimmage every single play. and that's the kind of force that these guys are absorbing. >> they're huge. >> they're bigger and faster. >> huge, fast, strong. john? >> john ridley. >> for me, i'm curious about the skren sis of this because most of us here are football fan, we enjoy it, but there's a conversation that's been growing. have you been tracking that conversation? where did it begin and what has been learned over the last few years about concussions? >> that was sort of the genesis of the book was we really wanted to look at what did the nfl know, when did it know it, and there have been a lot of great report ong that issue, but as we dug into it, heal rheally what the book lays out and the film, too, is the trajectory of denial for about two decades by the league as you had sort of a dueling level of denial. you had scientists emerging who were talking about the connection between repetitive trauma and football and long-term brain damage and those scientists being attacked basically by nfl doctors.

>> but the denial is over dlshgs 765 million settlement. i know they changed the rule because of trey richards and what he'd been doing in cleveland before about using your head. does the nfl get it yet? >> well, i think, you know, it remains to be seen, they were much more proak tich than under commissioner goodell. only one time they've once acknowledged the link between football and brain damage and that was immediately after they were hauled before congress to address this issue. even in this lawsuit they've not admitted any culpability or have they -- or are they even talking about any link. so, you know, they're putting a lot of money into research now, and as you said they're trying to change the rules but it's difficult. >> brian shactman is with us as well. he has a question. >> there are so many angles you want to play. the participation is interesting, too, because suburban mothers aren't letting their kids play as much as they used to. that's going to change who plays in the professional league.

what about the player? professional football league, they get paid to play. now that there's acknowledgment and a settlement, i don't know how the settlement moves forward but it's a way to change the way to play the game, too, maybe a system to take liability off the league? >> i think that liability issue is moving in a different direction now that obviously you've got this settlement having taken place and there's all this information out there. i think you touched on where the story is going to go. it's really around kids, mothers, making these decisions. there's a section in the book we talk about where you have an nfl doctor confronting the ongoing evidence and saying, look, if 10% of mothers begin to feel football is too dangerous, that's the end of football as we know it. >> i my malcolm glad wealth said almost very controversial to talk about the ghettoizing of football and if that effect is going to happen. it's one thing for the nfl to get it. it's an inherently violent sport. what can actually do be done as the father of a son who plays football to make this sport and

you say can it? >> i think that's the biggest issue that the nfl is confronting now. we who love football are confronting. the leading experts will tell you it's not the big blowup hit that is causing these problems. it's the repetitive head trauma that occurs on every play. and it's the incessant pounding that's endemic to football that's causing it. and can he legislate that out of the game. that's really unclear. >> all right, mark and steve, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> "league of denial: the nfl, concussions, and the battle for truth." the front line documentary airs tonight on pbs at 9:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, from top quality shirlts to top quality stakes. what clothing shop is planning to go in a whole new direction? "business before the bell" next. >> i'm so confused. >> i am too. ♪

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45 past the hour, "business before the bell" with cnbc's brye yap sullivan. a lot of global economists not pleased with the way the united states is handling the shutdown. >> no, they're not, mika. indeed we're starting to hear warning cries from a variety of different nations, most notably china and now japan. those two nations are the biggest outside holders of the united states debt so they run the risk of not being paid, albeit in a minuscule event that the united states defaults on its debt, which is pretty much an impossibility but that's a

possibility. china and japan also want to be paid back but they're saying there's a global risk to stability here as well. sort of in a move you would not expect, necessarily, the "wall street journal" has a story out where top bankers are saying that if you prioritize bond payments on our debt over social security or other payments, you might pose more of a risk to the economy. one would assume that the bankers would say, hey, pay the debt and bond holders back first. but they're actually saying the opposite because there's an instability when people don't know who's going to be paid so they're saying essentially pay everybody that you owe or pab-pay nobody, but don't prioritize one party over the next. >> john ridley, you were asking me a question, when does this end? a lot of people want to know -- i'll tell you how it ends, because i've seen it, we tried to stop most favored trade nation status with china year in and year out and the all the leaders would be with us and lead with us and then the head of goldman sachs would come down to washington, then the head of jpmorgan, then the head of bank of america, and they got --

never mind. and that's what's going to happen. if anybody thinks that john boehner is going to allow there to be a default, because i'll tell you what, wall street's going to come down. >> do you think he's more afraid of those ceos than ted cruz? >> oh, god, yes. and not only him -- >> good to know. >> eric cantor, the whole republican leadership, yeah. when the people that run america's economy say -- and i wish i could say the word here -- don't mess this up -- >> other word for "mess"? >> don't destroy this economy? you want to take us back to 2008? and by the way, there will be all the bloggers saying the default won't make any difference at all. bill crystal came on and -- like when faced with that choice, john boehner's not going to fold. john boehner's going to listen more to jamie dimond then he's going to listen to ted cruz. >> the market kind of agrees with you.

the market is not -- >> they're not going to default. >> first off we can get a technical definition of default, which is a very specific term -- >> don't bother. you know what, jamie dimond is not going to get to the technical definition of default. i'm just talking the politics about it. jamie die monday's not going to -- no. he's going to go down to the republicans and say are you guys crazy? >> i'm going to say something, joe, that's going to make you think that i've been drinking. >> okay. >> wow. >> that's new. go ahead. >> which i have not been. however, the u.s. treasury is legally prevented from issuing an up limited amount of paper currency, gold, silver, or copper. there have been some people out there, not complete loons, that have suggested the idea the treasury could print, make a trillion-dollar platinum coin. >> i've heard of this. >> right. >> i'm not kit idding. >> i've heard this before. >> not saying it's going to happen. i'm saying there is an extreme

outlier final solution. >> but why does there need to be when jamie dimond and -- >> i want to hear about the steak house. >> nick saban could bail out the u.s. government. >> do you think there's going to be default? >> i don't know. >> you know how this stuff works. >> i don't know. >> yes. >> between cruz and jamie diamond. >> every day of the week. are you kidding me? do you believe the headlines? oh, please. >> i believe everything. >> okay. >> everything you head in the papers. >> you want me to get in with this final story, the "new york post" reporting brooks brother lbs opening up a steak house in midtown manhattan. so i'm thinking -- >> that doesn't sound ap tizing to me. >> what other brand extensions would be natural? i'm going to do that on my show today. >> hanger steak.

alex, was that you? >> at his restaurant? >> hanger steaks? >> that comment has me hot under the collar. >> don't laugh. please don't laugh. don't laugh at that. i'm out of here. this is the second time. hot dogs and now this. sfx: birdg sfx: birds chirping okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal? [ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired. you're on in 5, duck.

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it's beautiful. >> at what price? >> we will take it. chirp, come see what your father has just purchased for me. >> one moment, sir. you'll be assisted. >> sir, if you could discuss the price. welcome, sir. >> mind your wallet. >> pay no attention to this gentleman's nonsense. >> my regrets for the intrusion, sir. >> no intrusion. >> good day, sir. >> good day. >> get out. >> that was a scene from the new movie "1 years a slave," written by john ridley, who's been with us all morning. john, that looks amazing. tell us about it. >> it's probably -- and i've been very fortunate to tell a lot of stories this hollywood -- it's probably the most american story i've had the opportunity to tell. it's about freedom, about liberty, an individual who took all that for granted and what happens when those are taken away from you. i think one of the things we all love the say now in hyperbole,

my freedoms, my liberty taken away, this is about someone that had that happen but never gave up his faith in family -- >> living in upstate new york. >> saratoga, new york. free black man. not free. kidnapped, sold into slavery but never gave up his faith in his family and a system that would set him free. to me solomon north, a true individual, lived -- the quality of his character, the fact that he would use all of his self to survive, his wits, guile, defended people weaker than him at the risk of his own life, a life lesson for all of us even in 2013. >> looks wonderful. >> in theaters october 18th. john ridley, congratulations. >> can you invite us to the premiere or something? >> i don't know. >> probably not. >> up next -- when we send them off to school, we want them to be explorers -

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