>> very much so. alec baldwin's friday night show, up late. premieres friday at 10:00 p.m. alec baldwin, thank you very much. fight on the right. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews out in los angeles. let me start with this. will they follow the money? the fat cats are finally calling halt. can the koch bros. divert the tea party types and birthers from driving the republican party and the country over a cliff? will money talk sense to those that logic hasn't? will budget chairman paul ryan divert the herd from the abyss? they're confronted with the old

jack benny question. your money or your life. will they stick to the battle cry of texas senator ted cruz? will they do what the money boys say? tonight it's anybody's guess. both of our guests are msnbc analysts. the koch brothers are revolting against the gop strategy right now. in a letter to congress, their company says koch brother industries writes, koch has not taken a stance on tying the continuing resolution to obama care. they should focus on tightening the budget, cushing cronyism and eliminating mandates. well, the koch brothers aren't alone. howard fineman wrote michael needham wrote the -- a new a gallup poll shows that the republican party is viewed positively by 28%.

it's gallup's lowest favorable rating measured for either party in history. of course the democrats aren't greater, but they have a much better 43% rating. they are going down, if you don't mind the phrase out there, in the toilet, and they're starting to gurgle. and we're hearing the gurgling sounds first from the koch brothers. because money is generally smart. paul ryan is also saying stop trying to tie together something the president won't give on. health care. and the debt ceiling, which we all have to agree to. of course the democrats aren't greater, but they have a much better 43% rating. they are going down, if you

don't mind the phrase out there, in the toilet, and they're starting to gurgle. and we're hearing the gurgling sounds first from the koch brothers. because money is generally smart. paul ryan is also saying stop trying to tie together something the president won't give on. health care. and the debt ceiling, which we all have to agree to. >> they're all related, chris. and of course the koch brothers are major funders of heritage and heritage action whose leader i quote in the story today. >> yeah. tell us about it. >> well, i think it's significant because mike needham says let's not tie defunding obama care which we at heritage really want, to the debt ceiling. so he said that on the debt ceiling. and basically the koch brothers are saying that in their letter as it regards government shutdown. so right there you have the koch brothers pulling back from the whole ted cruz obama care crusade, which they might not

have been with to begin request. heritage was a finding member of the let's get obama care, let's get rid of obama care caucus. however, they can read the numbers. they see the poll numbers. and more importantly, they worry about the global economic impact. don't forget that the republican party, despite all the tea party talk and despite that the chamber of commerce as a lobby group doesn't mean anything, they care about business, they care about profits. and they're looking at their bottom line in terms of polls and in terms of profits. >> what's the stronger impulse in the republican caucus? wealth or hatred? we do know in many ways, not in every way, the republican party has been backed by the fat cats. a much harmer percentage of the american industry, commerce, industry, whatever, money, backs republicans. it's overwhelmingly pro republican, and their hatred of obama, anything that he's

wearing the jersey for is dead meat as far as they're concerned. what's the stronger drive? love of money or their hatred of obama? >> yeah, money or hatred of obama. it's like with jack benny, it's money or life. he said wait, i'm thinking about it. look what happened with paul ryan. he had a wall street journal piece that came out today that talked about getting to a mid-size deal to avoid the default on the debt ceiling. and as soon as he put that piece out, he seemed to be like the adult in the room. like the guy in all those world war ii movies, he lifts his head out of the foxhole to take a look around, and all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom, there's firing, and it's coming from his own side.

conservatives are saying hey -- >> they hate, your answer to my question. your answer to my question. they hate obama more than they follow business logic. business logic says -- >> some of them do. we've moved into this position now where there are two targets at the same time. one is the government shutdown and the other is default. and it seems to me that the koch industry letter was very focused more on let's not default, but you still have mike needham saying i'm all for keeping the government shut over obama care but not defaulting over obama care. so there's a lot of juggling going on by all the different sides. it's not a circular firing squad. it's sort of like a figure eight firing squad. >> let me give a one cent answer here. i think they hate obama more. >> i think that's their piercing emotion there. they may overrun their logic or their love of money. >> what that means, chris, is that they want to create some further crisis here before

there's a deal. they're going to try to do both. i'm convinced that they're not going to be able to avoid some further catastrophe on the 17th. that's my view of it. that's my sense of it. and then, having gotten that, then the regular order, so to speak, that paul ryan represents will reassert itself. >> i think they're like the matador who wants to walk out of the arena with an ear or some piece of the bull. some piece of the guy. >> what can the president give them? >> they have not said yes to anything. the democrats gave them the budget, the budget numbers. and so, you know, he's tried, boehner keeps saying again and again, i want a conversation. well, we had a conversation two years ago. it didn't get a grand bargain. and boehner says i want a conversation, but i don't want to talk about taxes. >> speaking of the conversation. >> what can they say yes to. >> what's this thing about the president inviting all these big shot republicans down to the white house. and now boehner says there's too many going. there won't be a good conversation.

>> that was fascinating. the president invited them all. just as interesting, by the way. the president invited some conservative bloggers over yesterday. i thought that was very significant and interesting. but the president invited the whole republican caucus from the house. and the reason he did so is that as we've been reporting in the huffington post and others have been reporting, there are at least 20 members, republican peoples on record now who said they would vote for a clean cr, a clean continuing resolution. >> what's that mean? >> that would keep the current and low funding levels going -- >> yeah, but they're not going to have a vote. the speaker controls were there's a vote or not. >> i know. >> he's not going to let 20 republicans join 180 democrats. >> that's why boehner said no. >> i think the president was smarter. speaker boehner, you want to have a conversation, i'm happy to talk to you and the reasonable people within your caucus.

i'll even talk to the crazies in your caucus. john boehner wouldn't want to see that happen. >> it was a stunt invitation on the white house's part. >> one thing you guys realize, there's always a good godfather scene to reef to. remember the scene where they're trying to kill them and sunny speaks out of turn? that's what he's hoping for. never talk a different deal. take a look at this. speaking of the godfather. here's an op ed from house leader eric cantor. he concedes that this fight isn't about the affordable care act. nor is it about the debt limit. for three years congress and the white house have been building to this moment, not the debt limit or obama care specifically, but this clarifying moment of washington dysfunction. president obama has led us here by continually thwarting the role of congress.

this must end. so here's a reckoning. he carefully points out three years ignoring that three passed bawl care through the house, through the senate. he didn't ignore the congress. he's obeying it. he's following the law that they passed. >> this is more a clara bell moment than a clarifying moment. i'm sorry. i couldn't help it. this is high, this is sad, tragic, high comedy right now. this isn't a serious discussion going on. and if, and if eric cantor wanted a serious discussion and john boehner want add serious discussion, they were this close to really having one last year and the year before. this is, this is, this is made for tv, made for social media, made for grassroots fund-raising, dramatic moment,

created essentially by the republicans. >> i got to give ah conversation, a real conversation. on the record, 60 minutes. speaking of john boehner, he's made it clear for a long time he will not compromise. he doesn't like the word. take a look at boehner when he first became speaker. this is classic. >> you're saying i want common ground, but i'm not going to compromise. i don't understand that. >> when you say the word compromise, a lot of americans look up and go oh, oh, they're going to sell me out. so finding common ground makes more sense. >> i reminded him to get all the bush tax cuts made permanent. >> so you did compromise. >> we found common ground. >> you're afraid of the word. >> i reject the word. >> i reject the word compromise. then he makes this ridiculous, i'm looking -- he's not going to find common ground with obama.

he might find compromise. so therefore he rejects it. >> if you watched the duelling press conferences yesterday, obama referred to the word compromise two times. boehner never said compromise. if you look at cantor's op ed, they realize they lost the obama care crusade. >> that's a big development. >> and they don't want to go through default. so now they're trying to change the issue once again, saying it's three years of obama not conversing with us. it's ridiculous that they're going over the cliff, and they're trying to hold onto that branch like johnny dep and pirates of the caribbean. they have those 40, 50 members of the house who say i like the cliff. >> i think hate is a stronger impulse. now it's the renegade party.

coming up, the republican default deniers. those who argue that we can avoid default by paying some debt but not others. that it could stabilize world markets. how can you argue with flat earthers. also universal outrage for the cutting off of military aid for families. and how would a hostage negotiator get us out of this mess. the daily show has an idea on that. and finally, let me finish with a story of where i came from politically. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

president obama has nominated janet yellen to chair

the federal reserve. currently the vice chair will need to be confirmed by the senate. she became the choice after it became clear that larry summers would not be accepted. maybe you've noticed. is there a lot of worry building up around a daily problem? well ladies, now there's big news in controlling your overactive bladder symptoms. thinking less about them with new oxytrol for women.

it's a patch. the first and only over the counter treatment for overactive bladder. it's good to know how to put the control back in your go. new oxytrol for women. now over the counter in the feminine care aisle. visit oxytrolforwomen.com to learn more.

there's zero chance that the u.s. government is going to default on its debt. it's unfortunate that people have conflated this idea of not raising the debt ceiling immediately on october 17th with somehow defaulting on our debt. i haven't heard any of my republican colleagues suggest that it might be okay to default on our debt. >> welcome back to "hardball." we've heard plenty of republicans play down or deny the economic catastrophe that would result from a default. and here are a few. >> i think that all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, a lot of false

demagoguery. >> there is no such thing as a debt ceiling in this country. i would dispel the rumor that if we don't raise the debt ceiling we'll default on our debt. we won't. >> false demagoguery. that's a new one. >> one says it might help the economy. i think personally it would bring stability to the world markets. here's the group of republicans who say that a default is not something to worry about. and these senators. joining me right now, my great colleague. gentlemen, you guys are so smart, so let's work with this. what do you make of this decision by people to speak out, just the politics. tactically, or what would be the motivation at this point in this discussion to come out and say, well, october 17th, whatever jack lew says it doesn't really

matter because they can screw around with the money and get by with a few more days or few more weeks. it does run risk. why would somebody do this? >> i don't know. for the same reason that they would adopt ted cruz's strategy to shut down the federal government unless obama care was delayed for a year. i think you see the great divide in the republican party, not between the tea partiers and the establishment republicans, but from washington republicans and republicans across the country that, you know, run 60% of the governors' seats, whether you're talking about chris christie in new jersey, whether you're talking about scott walker in wisconsin, john kasich in ohio, susanna martinez in new mexico.

these are all popular governors in their own state, states that barack obama won, and governors that are concerned about their bond ratings. i remember when i had scott walker on a couple weeks ago. off the air, do you know what he bragged to me about? not about some fight with the unions. he said i'm in new york and i'm here to talk about how strong our state is and how our bond ratings are going to be higher. they've got to work with democrats, and that's exactly what they do. that's the great divide right now. republican governors are doing pretty darn well across america because they're not caught in this ideological trap that leads to nowhere. and i think that's why you see chris christie up by 33 points in a state that barack obama won by 18 points just last year. >> and i just understand the math to be that if you could get

your bond rating up, that means it costs you less to borrow. and it's a lot easier to borrow if you have to. >> by the way, without getting into trouble with anybody here, that list of governors he gave me, i'm impressed with. walker is a guy who impressed me in an amazing way, he with stood attack. he hung up there. so i'm looking at a list of maybe that's the strength of the republican party, not the chief votes in the house. what do you think is the motive behind people who would say there is no ghost outside. there is no scary coming, there's no specter coming. do what you feel like. >> first, i want to give them this credit. they're not phony demagogues. they're real demagogues. the same day that you have a piece in the new york times, you have the world bracing itself

for an economic catastrophe if america moves forward down this path. and they recognize that this will go down to their discredit if this moves forward. your point is such an important one, because for all these guy whose talk about deficits, all they're doing is raising the cost of government. it's going to cost more to borrow money for the government. interest rates are already up. it's going to impact every business, every state. this is an economic catastrophe. and suggesting that we can play some sort of shell game or check kiting to delay the inevitable is like saying sure, you've got cancer, but it's going to be months before you actually feel it. >> states like illinois have problems. let me go back to this skid in the game. pat toomey is smart.

what skin does he have in this game? if we do have a catastrophe october 17th, 18th or 19th. we don't know what day it is. what does he say? obama could have moved the money around, but he didn't? he brought on the catastrophe? what's their fall back? >> i don't know. pat toomey is my kind of republican. i'm a club for growth republican. i'm sure that will come back to haunt me on twitter sometime. but he's a small-government republican. he's also a guy that actually supported background checks at a time that it cost him a great deal politically with the national republican party. it doesn't make accept, but i tell you this. i think this is the point where the fever breaks, when you have

the wall street journal, people like bill crystal on our show, the koch brothers, and other business owners. they step forward and say guys, look what the congressional budget office said, you may be able to play around for a week or two and move money around for a week or two, but there will be a real default. for people who have skin in the game, real skin in the game, money in the game, you're going to have the republican party face these business leaders come, you know, the next week or so. and they're going to blink. there is no way they're going -- there's no way they're going to be able to stand up to these business leaders and say you risk a second, you know, a greater recession over the next two to three months according to studies if you don't raise the debt ceiling. >> well u.s. congressman paul brown has his own unique view. he calls the evolution theory straight from the pit of hell. here he is with cnn's wolf blitzer. >> america is going to be

destroyed, you say, by obama care? america? this united states of america is going to be destroyed if this law is fully implemented. is that what you're saying? >> it's going to take us off the edge. it's going to destroy our economy and push us into a total economic collapse of america. that's totally what i mean by it's going to destroy america. >> you know politics. are the republicans scared of the following in which order? are they scared of a real default because it's going to kill american economy in the world. we'll lose what we've had, we always pay our debts. and you know there are people like that in our on lives and people who aren't like that. are they more afraid of the reality or more afraid of the

perception by the public that it's mainly the republicans' fault, 28%, lowest approval rating they've ever had for either party. what scares them more? their rates or is it the reality of the economic crisis we face? >> let me just take on the premise of your question for a second. because the assumption is that they're scared. and the problem is that there is a core of these republicans, not the people who joe described. not people like joe, but there are a core of these republicans who are getting affirmation in their districts which are very conservative where all they worry about is a challenge from the right. these are not small government republicans the these are no-government republicans. and they are not feeling the heat. they are not afraid right now. i've heard jose before that he was heartened by the wall street journal. i don't think these people give a hang about the wall street journal. what they're hearing back home

is take obama care out. we don't really, you know, take the, don't raise the debt ceiling. and by the way, there's an interesting point. if you say to people let's raise the debt ceiling, they say no, that sounds irresponsible. because they don't understand it to be what it is. if you say to them, however, we're not going to pay our bills, we're going to default on our bills, they're even more opposed to that. and when americans understand that what's being proposed here is that the unit default on its obligations, i think there will be a change in attitude, but maybe not in those districts. >> i think it would be great if the president of the united states went on the air and gave us a 20 minute or so explanation of the debt ceiling in a totally analytic way. take it away from politics. get it into our heads. what are we talking about here? i think that would work. thank you so much. it's great to have it on here today. i love it when you dress out for

our program. you're really well-turned out today. >> i'm a slob on my own program. >> in the morning -- no you dress casually at times, but you look great tonight. >> if i can just finish by saying, it's not, it's not the minority of the minority party or the majority party in the house that matters. this all comes down to john boehner. and john boehner does care what the wall street journal says and bill crystal, what he says and what the koch brothers say. he's got to open it up at some point and have a follow through on what he promised before. and that is. >> majority rule. >> make sure that america doesn't default and open it up for a clean vote. and there will be more than a majority of republicans and democrats together passing. it will go to the senate, and america won't default on its debt, and the republican party won't drop even lower than 28%. difficult stating for senate

candidates in 2014 and possibly presidential candidates in 2016. >> i agree with your speech. sometimes party loyalty asks too much. we'll be right back.

thder crhes] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods.

♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. back to "hardball," time for the sideshow. the government shutdown has rattled the nation, yet many republicans are intent on going further, putting our nation's credit at risk. now they want the economy. they took the rhetoric and helped their correspondent deal with a strategist. >> keeping the hostage taker talking is crucial. >> obama care is going to be one of the worst things, one of the worst things in american

history. >> one of the worst things in american history. >> do you remember slavery? >> no. no. don't attack. >> sorry. so i'm not going to call her on slavery. >> i realize what she just said is utterly ridiculous, and it ignores the entire history of the united states, but that's her perspective. >> lacks like we win. >> no one wins in this case. >> the gop does. >> it's not a [ bleep ] game. >> and we'll be right back after this. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses.

the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. to me, relationships matter. i've been with my doctor for 12 years. now i know i'll be able to stick with him. [ male announcer ] with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. so don't wait. call now and request this free decision guide to help you better understand medicare... and which aarp medicare supplement plan might be best for you. there's a wide range to choose from. we love to travel -- and there's so much more to see. so we found a plan that can travel with us. anywhere in the country.

[ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is.

welcome back to "hardball." one particularly devastating consequence of our government shut down of course, it's caused anger around the country, it should, because it affects deceased american soldiers. the government has withheld the death gratuity normally paid to soldiers' families as well as other benefits. today in a solemn and emotional

ceremony at dover air force base, the bodies of four soldiers returned home. chuck hagel greeted the caskets and the soldiers, the four soldiers, were killed by an improvised explosive device in afghanistan on sunday. nbc news reported on the controversy earlier this week, and it sparked outrage in washington. >> enough is enough. it isn't just a matter of these families losing that loving son, that husband, that brother, it's a matter that our government that asked them to risk their lives for this great nation will not stand by them in this moment of grief. >> shouldn't we, as a body, republican, democrat, no matter who we are, shouldn't we be embarrassed about this?

shouldn't we be ashamed? >> well, there's two good men on that issue. they were both right to say what they d the only consoling news to report is this afternoon the house yew nan mussily passed a bill to provide those payments. the fisher house will pay those families. and after the shutdown, the pentagon will reimburse them. both of our guests are msnbc contributors. it's come down to the u.s. relying on a charitable organization. >> it's not fair. fisher house has a long legacy of stepping up on behalf of service men and women around the globe so i applaud that they're stepping up in this hour. the fact of the matter is, 18,

19, 20 year olds, children like yours and mine are the young people who are dying. the very notion that their parents, that three could not immediately receive that death benefit. they call it a gratuity, but it's $100,000. and they also support the burial and travel for family. so the notion that they could not receive that money, i think is really objectionable to me. the fact of the matter is congress was briefed about this flaw. they were briefed on september 27 by the pentagon controller who said if you go through with this shutdown we will not be able to pay out these death benefits. and them on top of that, this congress went and passed a piece of legislation, the pay our soldiers now act and they left a fatal legal flaw that didn't close the loophole for these service men and women to be paid this been fit. i don't know what it is about this, but you can't read and

write during the middle of a shutdown? i don't understand. >> you've been on both sides as a serviceman. they got what they wanted. they didn't get a mistake here. they got what they wanted. and apparently knowingly excluded these death benefits in what they were continuing when the government was shutdown. >> i don't know if they knowingly did it. the problem is that optically they're saying we're going to keep our paychecks and we want to make sure the military keeps their paychecks, even though 800,000 other folks didn't get their paychecks and still haven't, except for those now just within the department of defense, but to go to goldie's point, they did a horrible job taking care of our troops at the darkest moment of these families who are heartbroken because their loved ones aren't going home. that sergeant hawkins is from

pennsylvania. but what did john mccain say? he said shouldn't we be embarrassed? the problem is, the house republicans and john boehner and ted cruz, they're not embarrassed. and shame on them. >> republicans who are responsible for the shutdown blamed the president. joe wilson, the guy who said you lie. he didn't tell the truth. this decision affirms that the administration is trying to inflict as much pain as possible on the nation's most vulnerable people during the shutdown. that's if you believe joe wilson on anything. it is outrageous that the president has temporarily halted death benefits for fallen americans who have given the ultimate sacrifice.

why he didn't know this when he signed this and voted for the thing is not explainable by his current tone. well, the pentagon did warn congress before the shutdown that this would be one of consequences. let's watch. >> we would also be required to do some other bad things to our people. some examples. we couldn't immediately pay death gratuities who those who die on active duty during the lapse. >> the statements came out. unless you're part of the wacko caucus who said we found million year old bones and there was some plot by his mother to marry a kenyan so she could have a president some day. if you brief their cockamamie conspiracy theories, here's something thrown at them. >> i keep hearing that

republicans are blaming this administration for trying to inflict as they say, the most amount of harm. you know, republicans really did want to inflict harm. that was their objective. that was their leverage, that if they could get federal employees furloughed they could strip this country of bawl care, delay it, defund it. i don't know what they want today. it's a little bit ironic that you find house members who are complaining now because maybe they won't get hot water in the house gym. there are young people, older americans out there working, cleaning federal office buildings. they're not doing those jobs today because they're home and waiting for a paycheck. and they're going to suffer irreparable financial harm from this because they don't have a paycheck today.

>> i think they're the party that should be called the party without consequences. because they're the same party who started every war saying there won't be that many casualties. they don't have their skin in the game. they never really are invested. it's just talk. talk. we thank you patrick murphy for your service and you, goldie for bringing this up. coming up, those who try to find a way out of this morass. t gain with lift & lock, he loves the way his laundry smells. [ sniffs ] [ woman ] uh, honey, isn't that the dog's towel? [ panting, gwling ] [ whimpers ] [ male announcer ] hey. mi towel, su towel. gain with lift & lock cleans amazing so your clothes smell amazing. and get the scent you love in the scent booster and fabric softener, too. progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes.

but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today.

i'm out here in los angeles. and tonight i have the honor of presenting my new book at the ronald reagan presidential library. friday i'll be on with bill maher. we could use some of that we're in it together spirit today, don't you think?

your colleague, congressman said that the debt limit would bring stability, do you agree

with him? >> no, not at all. i think it was crazy talk. >> that was republican reid. rejecting that it would bring stability to financial markets worldwide. beside the crazy talk, we're hearing that some members of congress on both sides want to solve these problems, 86% of the republicans and democrats in congress say they are committed to problem-solving over partisanship. they gather across the aisle for meetings, and on capitol hill. joining us, reid ribbel of wisconsin, and curt schrader of oregon. congressman, you're in the state where they began, let's talk about what you're thinking. do you think health care should be in or out of a debt ceiling deal?

in or out? >> i think right now the health care issue has kind of been settled at this point, my personal take if the health care law is not going to function correctly, let's let it stand or fall on its own. and then it will live or fail on its own, that is where i'm at. >> mr. schrader, should it be in or out of the debt ceiling deal? >> i think reid hit the nail on the head, bigger fish to fry, beyond even the debt ceiling and the limit and getting this economy going again. that is what you will see talked about this next week. >> there was an old argument about religion, someone once said, we don't know if there is a heaven or hell, but let's don't take any chances, i'm dead serious here, let's talk about the debt ceiling cliff, do you think on a date nearby it is important not to exceed the debt ceiling?

>> i absolutely do, i think it is a very serious matter, you can't go beyond the debt limit. i mean, the country's revenue sources will drop down to about $2 billion, according to secretary lew, at that point, there will not be the cash flow with which to pay the bills, while you may see a structural default, the reality is there are hundreds of thousands of federal contracts out there with small and medium size businesses. if you don't pay those contracts you have defaulted on that debt. and we wouldn't have a $700 billion deficit if there was adequate cash flow to pay the bills. >> same question, mr. schrader, is it real? >> i think it is very real, i talked to people on wall street, and the banking community and people on the streets, they are very nervous about it. you don't mess around with the

full faith and credit of the united states, the blow to our prestige, how the rest of the world views us, that is irreparable. >> mr. ribble, what do you think in terms of an exit strategy that gets us through the holidays that we don't have something very horrible happen? >> yes, my own plan would be of course to actually address what are the true drivers of our long-term fiscal condition, which would be entitlements. there is broader agreement on some of the reforms to actually reform social security. my encouragement to the speaker is that we actually look at that one, completely drill right into it and craft the policy necessary to take that 9.6 or $10 trillion of unfounded obligation and secure and save social security for the next 75

years. it can be done. this is a perfect time to do it. we have divided government. so one side will not force a fix on the other side. >> well, let me ask mr. schrader that question, would the democrats be willing to go after entitlement reform, something that sets up social security for a long-term commitment if they don't get something in return. the president says i'll look at it but i want something in return, it doesn't seem like he is just willing to sit down and fix the entitlements, if you will. >> i don't think that congressman reid or a lot of congressmen on my side of the aisle expect it to be my way or the highway. that is the beauty of the rank and file system that is going on. we're talking about listening to each other, the entitlement reforms that were developed before the baby boomers became a reality or concern. but the revenue sources, before for baby boomers, became a reality concern. so i think we have to have revenue as part of the discussion that has been thrown away in the past.

the president is willing to talk, the republican leadership is willing to talk, great news, maybe great media, but not good for this country. >> well, that is what i have been worrying about, too. thank you, congressman ribble and schrader, thank you very much. we'll be right back..

let me finish tonight with this, i have written a book, i

just did, that explains a heck of a lot about me politically. what you see with me on the show, the reason i insist on questions getting answered without all the bs out there. and all the fans i love getting to know in the airports and other places in the country, now you can get tip and the gipper, that really covers everything, through my time in after a after, my wild time as a presidential speechwriter, and the half dozen years with the battle, with tip o'neill, against the conservative president, the icon, ronald reagan, i'm asking everybody who watches "hardball," to go out and get this book now. it has my personal experiences and the lightning fight between reagan. the pele who have read it told me it is the best book i have written, i like that. it is actually the best guide i can give you on how politics works when it does work. most importantly, it is a look