his way to the white house to meet president obama face-to-face. ♪ >> no one gets everything they want. and frankly, i agree with that. >> keep in mind the democrats have already compromised a lot. >> we've been trying to have conversations. >> there are people who are being impacted as you said every day. >> what we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move. >> if the speaker of the house, john boehner, would simply allow a vote on the floor, it would get reopened. >> it's time for leadership. it's for though o for conversation to begin. >> you can't negotiate on anything under the threat if you don't get your way 100% you shut down the government. >> i don't want to put anything on the table. i don't want to take anything off the table. >> what i'm saying is keep the government open and see if we can get anything done. >> if and and butts were big bucks every day would be

business. >> okay. take a deep breath. count to ten. because there may at last be a way out of at least part of the monumental standoff in washington. right now we're just half an hour away from a crucial meeting between house republican leaders and the president at the white house. and everything could hinge on what happens there. senate democrats just left the white house after their meeting, and senate republicans will head over tomorrow morning. now over in the house, gop leaders announced this morning that they'll offer a bill authorizing a temporary increase in the debt ceiling if the president will agree to substantive negotiations on other fiscal matters. >> what we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the

government. >> yep. you heard it right. this quote/unquote deal would not even open the government. it would simply allow the government to pay its bills until november 22nd. in other words, the gop won't release the hostage, but they may agree not to shoot the hostage until around thanksgiving. but if speaker boehner can get the conversation he so desperately wants, what about the shutdown thing? could we take care of that too? >> if and and buts were candy an nuts every day would be christmas. >> ah, that old boehner chestnut. nevertheless, the white house said today that the white house proposal is tentatively encouraging. but they'll wait to see what they actually get. >> to continue to talk about ifs and buts as the speaker said doesn't get us anywhere. we haven't seen anything from the house republicans yet. the president believes they ought to pay our bills. the president believes they ought to turn on the lights. and the president has always

been willing to negotiate. >> so i'm getting the sense there is still a lot of ifs and buts out there. but if the house could pass a clean bill to avoid default, and yes, that's still an if, would the president sign it? >> the answer is yes, but he's not paying a ransom for congress to do its job. i think we ought to see whether they're serious about, you know, putting the matches and the gasoline aside when it comes to threatening default. >> we may just find out how serious they are within the hour. and in case you think the public isn't paying attention, our brand-new nbc "wall street journal" poll shows nearly 2/3 of americans, 63% say failure to raise the debt ceiling would be a real and serious problem. let's get to washington. dana milbank, political columnist for "the washington post." nbc political analyst michael eric dyson, and msnbc contributor jared bernstein,

senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities and former aide to vice president joe biden. we just learned that treasury secretary jack lew will be at the white house meeting. how much confidence can we have that at this point republicans are actually starting to make a little bit of sense? >> well, confidence is kind of an iffy word right now to talk about ifs and buts. it's really very unpredictable. but it is looking better than it was yesterday at this time. and i think what you're seeing here is the beginning of some cracks in the republican unity. they're looking at dismal poll numbers. they're hearing it from the business community, and they're realizing -- even the tea party folks are realizing this is not going to be going their way. it's not exactly clear how they fold and how they do it in the most elegant way and the most face-saving way. but certainly the debt limit is the easiest piece of them to give up on. and it sounds like more concessions will follow. >> so professor dyson, folding elegantly, as david just

mentioned, all of the problems that republicans are facing in their home districts, the unpopularity, the pain that is being felt at home, they aren't yet as a result of the debt limit. they're because of the shutdown. so why is it that if republicans are starting to understand they're going to lose, why not reopen the government? >> well, because they're that stubborn, joy there is no rhyme or reason here. there is no logic. there is an inelegant folding going on here, and it's through coercion. in fact, the only thing they seem to understand is a gun to the head. so these polls are a gun to the head, so to speak. the negative blowback from their own districts and from the republican, you know, center there suggests to them that they have to move here. that's the only language they seem to deal with. that's the only commerce that they seem to trade in. so i think here unfortunately, until it becomes a basically apparent that the american public is so fed up with them that the threat of them getting out of office looms large, or the fact that their numbers dipped so low that the president's hand is strengthened will they begin to understand, all right, we've got to move yet

another inch. that's unfortunately the metric by which they calculate their moves. >> and while we're talking, i want to just point out to the viewers that we are watching for the arrives of the republican leaders who are set to start filing into the white house for this meeting. i do want to go over to you, jared, though. we're starting to see ripples of the real impact on the economy of what the republicans have done thus far. how bad is it, and how much time do we have before we start to see economic impacts that are serious and severe if they don't turn this around? >> well, there is two levels of impacts. one is actual and the other is potential. the actual comes from the shutdown and the sequester by the way, which are already in place, and most economists think that's shaving a couple of tenths of percent off gdp growth. now that's not huge. but if you actually get down to the level of individual people and their businesses, it's hurting. i've heard, for example, from businesses that are outside national parks, they're doing no business at all. so tourism has taken a hit. but then there is the potential

damage of actually failing to raise the debt ceiling. and that's a much more serious breach of the economy, one that would take us probably from recovery to recession. even what we have done so far, even suggesting that we might entertain the possibility of default has led to rising interest rates on short-term bonds. so those problems are there, joy. >> and jared, and yet at the same time we do have the bond issue you talked about, but you have the dow up 323. can you explain that? >> yes. that's what i was going to say. now, the reason that the dow is on this huge relief rally today is because they think there is a deal out there. and to me it's yet one of these very interesting symbols of the connection between washington dysfunction and markets. and i'll tell you something else. if this deal for some reason doesn't come through, it's kind of look out below from the market's perspective, because there are things we still don't know. let me tell you one thing.

the "wall street journal" had this just an hour or so ago. apparently as part of this deal, the republicans are insisting that the treasury permanently give up on these extraordinary measures that they've used to extend the debt ceiling. they'll no longer be able to use extraordinary measures if they accept this deal. i'm not sure the white house is going to bite at that so quickly. >> that's defanging the treasury. that sounds like a bright idea. dana, i want to go back over to you. your paper is reporting you have senate democrats and republicans working together. is this a sign the complete loss of confidence in john boehner's ability to do anything has now bled into the republican conference in the senate? >> it's part of that going on, but also i think people have said okay, ted cruz, you had your crack at this. you've got us into a terrible mess. so i think some of the leadership like mitch mcconnell is getting a bit more brave. and that is to some extent happening in the house too, what you saw with paul ryan stepping back from the obama care demands.

so the leadership in both chambers i think is beginning to get a bit more of an upper hand saying no to the tea party folks. they're a long way from having this all taken care of. but the very fact that they're stepping back from obama care which was a nonnegotiable position for the administration to be in, now there are things that they at least can talk about. so that is good news. you don't want to predict success at any point in washington. but we're certainly looking in a better position. >> professor dyson, before we get too happy about the potential for compromise, the magical thinking still hasn't gone completely away in the republican conference. this is what ted cruz has been saying to members of his party according to the national review. cruz argued to republicans at a closed door lunch on wednesday, according to the national review, that the campaign he led to shut down the government over obama care has bolstered the galena park's political position. he knows this because he paid for his own poll, conducted by his own very own partisan pollster. how much longer does cruz get away with essentially lying to members of the house of representatives on the republican side?

>> well, the republicans are going to come up off of cruz control and they're going to try to take it back over again. this is not a pilot -- this is not what you call an instrument landing here. this is going to have to be a pilot-driven thing. and john boehner has to be the pilot that takes over from the instrument landing. a and the instrument landing is ted cruz, because he has been the kind of, you know, reading of the republican party from the right because they've been so afraid of the tea party element of that party that they have been incapable of saying, look, that doesn't make sense, even for our own interests. so they've got to redefine themselves away from the ted cruz craziness and the lunatic fringe and come back to center. and all obama has been doing from the very beginning, the president that is, is saying, look, i'm willing to negotiate, but just not about this stuff, because this stuff is already law. and i'm not going to talk about the debt ceiling because those are bills we've already got to pay because we've incurred the debt already. but i'm willing to negotiate about other stuff out here. you would think that would be the beginning point. but they have been forced into this. and it seems they have made a bigger achievement than they have. we're giving them bigger credit.

we're grading them on a curve. this is a dunce democracy. they're trying to be graded as people who are competent. and i think we have to be honest about that. >> i have to tell you, professor, john boehner being the pilot that flies us out of this is probably the most terrifying thing i've ever heard. >> no question about this. put your seat belts on. it's going to be a bumpy ride. >> thank you all. and coming up, what is the glitch as d.c. debates shutdown, where, oh, where has the fight over obama care gone? we'll answer that question as we await a showdown between the president and the republican leadership. ♪ put the lime in the coconut, said doctor is there nothing i can take ♪ my name is mike and i quit smoking.

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we're awaiting a meeting of republican congressional leaders, including speaker john

boehner at the white house with the possibility of a thaw over the government shutdown. one wonders if the gop will play nice on the affordable care act, something jon stewart did not do when interviewing health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius this week. >> the obama care is for the 15%ers. >> for the 15% who have no insurance at all. >> i see. how many have signed up thus far? >> fully enrolled? >> yeah. >> i can't tell you. because i don't know. >> well, we do know in the first week of open enrollment, more than 8 million americans visited health care.gov, glitches and all, and presumably some of them sign upped for health insurance. unless the opponents of the affordable care act are willing to tell those who already sign upped never mind, just kidding, you don't really have coverage, to quote the president, the affordable care act is here to stay. it would appear republicans are finally coming around to that. now show resignation saying i'd

like to get rid of obama care, no question than. but i think that effort has failed. with lindsey graham adding we took an unpopular law and chose a more unpopular tactic to deal with the law. and as for who is behind this unpopular tactic, here is senator john mccain. >> we started this on a fool's errand, convincing so many millions of americans in our supporters that we could defund obama care. the people that convinced so many millions of americans, tea partiers who were specifically talking about, that there was some way we could defund obama care. we can't. >> and for more, i'm joined by msnbc policy analyst and wizard of data ezra klein. >> wizard. >> wizard of data. >> is that it now? are republicans finally coming to the realization that they cannot get rid of the affordable care act? >> ainge lot of mainstream republicans have been there for a while. you remember speaker boehner right after the election gave an interview and said obama care is the law of the land.

that didn't appear to stick very long. if you talk to house republicans, what they're saying, the new deal is they're going to extend the debt court of appealing for six weeks is doing that will allow them to focus on obama care, as opposed to having to focus on the debt ceiling. but in that segment of the party which has been a very perfect segment of the party, a much more powerful segment than the orrin hatch/john mccain segment of late, they believe it's part of a grand plan with some serious blow dealt against the oyed forable care act. >> that base has been lied to. they were told, as you were pointed out that if you shut down the government you will get rid of this horrible thing, the affordable care act. that didn't happen, but you still do have some on the right arguing that the republicans have to keep fighting. and when paul ryan tried to pull them back too the fiscal issues that are usually better for republicans, he wouldn't let them. paul rand had to take that back. >> you ever seen the south park

episode about the underpant gnomes. there is this famous, and the republican party is trapped in this underpants gnome theory of getting obama care. step one shut down the federal government. step two, mm, step three, obama care is done for. that's been the erick erickson wing of the party for some time now. the polls are terrible for the republican party. they're being blamed hugely. they're currently the least popular party in the whole time gallup has been polling the question. but if you read them, it's going great. it's going really well. ted cruz makes a the point they're not quite as unpopular as republicans were in 1995. it's not at all clear how this ends in some kind of blow dealt against obama care. but they do believe if they hold out long enough, democrats will in some way buckle and give them something. >> something. they don't know what that is to quote one of their members. what is interesting is the affordable care act itself hasn't necessarily risen in the

esteem of the marine layer people. you do have some people signing up. so the concept of getting health care is still popular. what is thor there hold here? when do we know whether or not the affordable care act is a success? is it a year? when do we start to judge it? >> it will take a long time to judge it. i don't think people should beat around the bush on this. they have done a terrible job launching this law. >> glitchy site. >> it isn't just a glitchy site. basically nobody is capable of signing up for affordable health care right now or any health insurance, affordable or not that is not okay. they did a bad job running a very big program to help a lot of americans. now three weeks from now, four weeks from now, it might all be fixed. it might be fine. and there is something to that. a stat i heard the other day which i think is a stung one is there were more people trying to sign up for accounts at health care.gov in the first 24 hours than twitter had in the last 24 months. nevertheless, when you launch something like this, it is on you to make it work. we are more than a week and most people cannot use the site or get insurance. and the alabama people failed the people it was trying to

help, at least thus far. they need to get the site working before we can even talk about whether it can be a success. right now it can't even begin. >> there is something to be said about government agencies running computers like the ones on "lost." i'll be amiss if i didn't let you take a victory lap. you said and were accused of optimism by some of us that this budget shutdown, the government shutdown might actually yield a deal on the debt limit. now that we see these meetings, republicans going in, all the talks about senate republicans and democrats sort of getting together, do you feel it is time to take the ezra klein victory lap? >> i'm not taking a victory lap over a terrible place for the country. that's going too far. what i've been arguing along with others like matt iglesias, a shutdown would be a place where republicans begin to feel enough pressure, pain, would begin to see poll numbers drop such that they would not want to compound that pain by reaching the debt ceiling. assuming boehner's deal passes on the floor of the house, that appears to be what is happening. it is a very good thing that

we're not going the breach a debt ceiling. i never thought i would say thank god for the government shutdown. but thank god there was some other arena that was less damaging to the country that the republicans could, as rachel maddow likes to put it, get er in -- their yahyas out. certainly the country is not having a victory right now, even if we're not having quite the catastrophic defeat we could be. >> the temper tantrum on the shutdown which is an awful thing. ezra klein, thank you. >> thank you. coming up, we will talk to a congressional democrat who had a thing or two to say to the president at their meeting yesterday at the white house. as house republicans are expected at the white house any moment now. [ male announcer ] playing in the nfl is tough. ♪ doing it with a cold, just not going to happen. ♪ vicks dayquil powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief.

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wednesday. only a very unexpected headline came out of that meeting. the delegate representing d.c. reportedly laid some of the blame for the shutdown on the president. now, the district you should realize is what is known as a federal enclave, placing it in a weird position during these budget fights. while states and cities can wait for house republicans to hem and haw over the shutdown because they have their own local revenue, d.c. relies on the federal government to disperse its funds. and let me repeat that, it's local funds, not federal money, local revenue. a resolution that would have released those funds failed last week as part of democrats' opposition to a piecemeal approach to governing. and the president says d.c. residents only have one man to blame in this fight. >> what do you say to people in the district? >> well, what i would say to them is we're going to do everything we can to get this solved. and there is a real simple solution. the speaker of the house could solve this today. by simply reopening the government.

>> and joining us now is d.c.'s delegate to the house of representatives eleanor holmes norton. welcome, delegate. >> thank you. >> all right. so first of all, i think a lot of people really don't understand that the district is in this sort of strange position where it's not a state and its money is really controlled by congress. so tell us how the shutdown is actually impacting your constituents. >> the monies collected by us shouldn't be up here in the first place. $6 billion of it. and we don't get to spend it until congress, which never changes the budget, but signs off essentily on it. they're essentially a pass-through. but it's having a dire effects on my district. because you can't run a big complicated city without money. and therefore the city had to find some funds, and it found a contingency fund, really meant for disasters like natural disasters, not this man made disaster. but that's fast running out. and i said to the president

yesterday when he was making the case again, essentially treating the district as a part of a federal strategy to make a federal point. i said to him what was he going to do when the district ran out of funds. and the only thing encouraging that he said in that regard was, well, we're not there yet. which made me believe he does understand that if we got there, something might have to be done. well, we're going to get there, and i'm not sure any of the compromises that are being floated are going to get us there. it is very frustrating. they call us a federal enclave. we're a big city with the nation's capital. we deliver direct services, unlike the federal government. so i guess the federal government, as horrible as that would be for my -- for my constituents who work for the federal government, if it didn't open, you would not feel that nearly as quickly as we're now feeling it. for example, the mayor says that he now cannot make payments to

our charter schools. half of our children go to charter schools. some of those schools will simply have to close. >> right. >> that's the kind of direct service that is affected by holding our local budget here and not distinguishing a local budget from all of the other funds which are federal funds which are and should be controlled by the congress of the united states. >> and delegate norton, you mentioned the congress and their control over your budget. i want to read you just a quote from what roll call talked about your interaction with the president. and you said i had to go to the source of the problem and that's the president. if this is an issue that congress really controls, can you just sort of flesh out for us what you meant by going to the source of the problem, that being the president? >> now, the president and the congress, the democrats in the congress are our biggest defenders, our biggest advocates. but here i am having to ask them to abide by their own principles. they're the ones who stand up

for treating the district's budget as its own budget and not as part of the federal budget when the republicans traditionally have somehow used our budget for their own purposes. ideological purposes. now because we're caught in this shutdown, somehow the notion is that even though they're federal funds, if we are to let the district's budget go, the whole house of cards would come down. how? how? since those are local funds and all of the federal funds would be there. you know, the president said yesterday something that i had to interrupt him for. he said every district is going through the same thing the district of columbia is. i said mr. president, these are local funds. of course he knew that we're being held here for strategic purposes. we're being held here to make a federal point. it's unnecessary and it is causing severe injury to the residents of the district of columbia and could mean the

collapse of the city itself if it runs out of money altogether. >> and delegate norton, i want to remind our viewers, that we are watching the arrivals of republicans who are coming to the white house for this crucial meeting that could at least yield some sort of movement in the standoff over the budget. there was a veto threat that the white house issued in regard to any piecemeal funding that would go to the district. very briefly, do you expect -- what do you expect to come out of the meetings. and do you think there will be a resolution for your constituents to come out of the deal that is being brokered now? >> well, i'm hearing rumors of a deal that would temporarily raise the debt ceiling, but leave the government closed. how does that help my district? that's why i hope that somehow they will let my people go from this mess of which we are not a part. >> right. >> and i'm not hearing anything at the moment that would make me believe that they would, that our budget would be freed. >> and we do have to go. would you like the white house to withdraw that veto threat? >> oh, yeah. the reason i said i had to go to

the source of the problem is that the veto threat is driving everything that democrats are doing. and i agree with the veto threat on the federal appropriations. >> correct. >> if they didn't do that, we would piecemeal the government until you got down to the part of obama care that is still in the health bill. >> right. or food stamps. and then remember, they haven't taken the affordable health care off the table. >> right. >> it would be foolish for them to relent on that. but it wouldn't be foolish to see the difference between local funds and federal funds and let the district's budget go. >> thank you so much, eleanor holmes norton. we really appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> all right. stay with us. more ahead featuring what americans these days are calling the 5% congress. >> the congress and the senators are still getting paid, and they're still in session. they're still in session. what are they doing? and they're getting paid for whatever it is they're doing. here is what they were doing today. take a look at what is going on

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they do not know what they want. >> would you accept a sherm deal? >> we are going to look at anything they send us. >> they want to negotiate before you reopen the government, is that -- >> not going to happen. >> that was senate majority leader harry reid this afternoon talking outside the white house about the possibility of a deal that might help end the government shutdown. and if there was any doubt about the impact of the shutdown, look at the senate ohio clock. its hands now frozen at 12:14.

the furloughed workers who wind it once a week just the latest victims of the government shutdown. and let's get right to our panel. joining us now is lauren fox, political reporter for u.s. news and world report, and james peterson, director of african that studies at lehigh university. and professor, i'm going to start with you. we have the -- and by the way, i want to remind our viewers that we are watching for the start of this meeting between republican leaders and the white house that should be going on now or any minute now. we'll just keep you up to date on that. but professor we have impacts now from the shutdown to include the nuclear regulatory commission. their funding is running out. you have 90% of their staff now being forced off the job. some inspectors are still on the job, but emergency preparedness exercises are suspended. when do we get to the point where republicans say if the nuclear regulatory commission is offline. >> right. >> it isn't just about the senate clock anymore. it's about the safety and security of americans. >> that's right. especially with the nuclear commission, it's about how they handle and dispose of waste.

they're going to maintain enough stuff to watch the reacts and safety issues. but it's also about how do you manage the waste, which is a really important component for those. it's really interest, joy. when you look at nuclear, when you look at e verify which is about undocumented workers getting screened properly. and you look at agriculture being affected, those issues, there is lots of other issues you can talk about. but those four issues, those are pretty much republican issues. and that's reported by the times, by politico, by usa today. those are traditional republican issues. so you would think that this is kind of hitting them where it hurts. but i'm just not sure that this republican party is really even connected to the kinds of issues that we traditionally think that republicans have been associated with. >> well, lauren, talk than just a little bit. because the issues that james brought up, things like everify not going able to go through, small business administration loans not going through, farmers

not able to cash fha checks. is your reporting that republicans are starting to feel those impacts in their districts, and that that might be moving them toward a deal? >> certainly republicans have said that they are getting phone calls. they are getting letters from angry constituents who it is harvest right now. and in rural america, people aren't being able to deposit their usda checks? i mean, they're certainly hearing from constituents on these issues. but, you know, they're pretty dug in at this point. and house speaker john boehner is heading to the white house right now as we can see. and it's one of those issues where i think that the republicans are starting to wake up, but it may be a little too late in some of these districts back home. >> well, and james, what is the incentive in that case if republicans are bleeding at home, if they're bleeding in the polls. if the shutdown is really hurting them much more than it's hurting democrats or the president, what is the incentive for the deal you're seeing unfold or at least the meeting that is unfolding now to result in a deal at all? why should the white house and democrats give republicans anything? >> i don't think that the white house or the democrats should

make any concessions of this point. clearly they stood their ground on obama care. you know, i don't think there is any kind of so-called grand bargain to be had out of this. and i think what we've got to start to think about here as the american people and as elections start to come up is look at where we are. look at discretionary spending as a percentage of gdp here in the united states, lowest it's ever been in the last ten years. look at the budget that is on the table right now for the cr, which is as you have reported here earlier in the week just a few million dollars off of the paul ryan budget. look at the fact that we're not even talking about sequester cuts. when you think about the confluence of all those issues and talk about declining deficits on top of that, it doesn't make sense for us to continue to negotiate with people who you really can't negotiate with. i hate to keep pushing the terrorist hostage theme, but it just seems as if that is how they're operation. it's very, very difficult to understand what is the method to the madness here. >> i mean, lauren, if year going to use the hostage analogy, the lead hostage taker, theoretically the person they're

negotiating with is john boehner there is a sense from the a lot of the reporting it's not clear he could actually deliver a deal. even if the meeting we're watching unfold between the republicans and the white house resulted in some sort of a compromise, is it your reporting that people in the hill think that bain cory deliver the votes to get that deal through the house? >> it certainly remains to be seen if house speaker john boehner has the votes that he needs. he may have to turn to house democrats to push one of these pieces of legislation across the finish line. but if he is going to depend on democrats, certainly his speakership could come into question, could be considered fragile at this point. so i think they're certainly going to -- it remains to be seen whether or not he has the votes that he needs for something like a deal that he would negotiate with the white house. >> okay. james peterson, lauren fox, thank you both. >> thanks, joy. all right. and coming up, we'll go live to the white house where the president and the gop are just getting comfortable, or maybe uncomfortable. but first, we know george zimmerman was acquitted. but that doesn't stop the

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the senate race in new jersey is one of two statewide elections this year where you sit back and wonder whether republicans learned anything from their defeats in 2012. like the gubernatorial race in virginia. republicans in new jersey have nominated a tea party conservative whose positions are far to the right of the state's general electorate, and whose tight embrace of those positions even while the world around him is changing is squeezing the life out of his candidacy. so right now in that state of new jersey, polls suggest ste lonigan was always going to have a uphill. some of the very residents you hope to represent with lines like this. >> i think mayor booker's vision of newark is about as real as t-bone.

you may not be able to swim in that river, but it's probably i think because of all the bodies shooting around from shooting victims in your city. >> oh my god. oh my god. >> owe, oh my god, oh my god. >> oh my god indeed. joining us is msnbc contributor jimy williams and steve karnaky. we want to offer condolences to mayor cory booker moments ago. we learned that he lost his father, that he lost his dad. so our thoughts are with him and his family. it does fall to us to talk about some of the politics here. and he still has to face that man who we heard make that very awkward comment in this race. does mr. lonegan even make sense for new jersey? >> this is a state it's been 41 years since new jersey has elected a republican to the u.s. senate. even with this poll, these polls drawing sort of relatively close right now, that puts lonegan in the range of every republican who has run and lost in new

jersey. there is a bigger game that longan is sort of playing here. by taking on this fight against cory booker and by saying things like he said at this debate last night, when this election is over, steve lonegan is able to sort of return to the conservative media world, the information world and say look, i took the fight to cory booker. i said the things that you all think and that the other republicans are afraid to say. the media was against me. i think that increases his stature within that narrow world. but doing things like having sarah palin come to new jersey the week before your election, that's not going to help you win in new jersey. thinking was the ben carson school of conservative politics. say a lot of things that the right wing like and the next thing you know you may get a tv contract. >> ben carson, the guy that thinks i'm a victim of bestiality. yes, that would be the same man. look, the problem here in new jersey is, and new jersey people like one thing and one thing only. they like to be able to trust the people that actually

represent them. they don't trust lonegan. they trust booker. they trust chris christie. they trust a republican and a liberal democrat. that's the one thing you can say about this. there is a bigger problem here, and that is the gender gap between lonegan and cory booker. it's huge. it's massive. and this is simply indicative of the 2012 election, the largest gender gap between barack obama and mitt romney in the presidential history. so they have a problem. the party has a bigger problem. and lonegan is simply an effect of that. >> lonegan is playing this game where he is playing with the conservative media. but chris christie's game has been to seem like the grownup in the room, the consensus candidate that could get republicans back into the mainstream. how should he be responding then to the republicans in washington who are shutting down the government and who the base is still cheering on? >> first of all, there is a reason why we're talking about

this new jersey election right now is that christie didn't want to have anything to do with this race. >> right. >> he didn't want to be running in opposition to cory booker, he didn't want cory booker to be on the ballot with him and he certainly didn't want steve lonegan to be on the ballot with him. in a way this is a sop to the right. here, you can have steve lonegan, you can waste the special election on steve lonegan. i just don't want to be tied down with the baggage. when you start looking at chris christie and how others handle the crisis in washington, what you end up hearing them say, and we heard a little bit of this from christie the other day is not so much i would solve it with this, this, this, and this. why can't you just do what we do in my state? in my state we come together and work the empty platitudes and governing new jersey, if you can get into details about coalitions that chris christie has built with the democrats and how these things. >> and including cory booker sometimes. >> there is a democratic power broker who brings chris christie and cory booker together. it's not possible in washington the way washington works or doesn't work right now. >> i want to get both of you

guys on record that we're seeing between house republicans and the president. we saw the dow go up today 323 points, just on the talk, just on the notion of maybe a deal. so first steve and then jimmy. does a deal help, hurt? how does it benefit chris christie? >> i don't know that it necessarily benefits chris christie just from the sense you look. we've seen the polling this week how this is clearly hurting the national republican party brand. when you see a gallup poll that says in the history of asking this question we've never had a party score as low as the republican party is now scoring. this is not ended. this is still going to be an outstanding issue from four weeks from now. it keeps the government shut down. i don't think this helps the republican party although it does signal there are some republicans in washington are recognizing the damage potential and are saying we need to move towards getting out of this. but they're still a long way from getting out of this. >> last word to you, jimmy. you're starting to see the effects on rural districts, on people who have pharmacy, on small businesses.

how badly at this point do you think that house republicans want a deal, any deal with the president? >> listen, i think the speaker looks at the numbers, the poll numbers and he realizes they've got to come up with something. the great irony is kornacki is right. we're talking about four weeks. that's a month. that's nothing. all this stuff, obama care, going to the debt ceiling, all over a clean cr that would have gone to december 15th. now we're talking about a month. in the grand scheme of things, they're going to staunch the bleeding a little bit, but then we're going to be right back at the same thing over again if they can't come to an agreement. the question is how does john boehner get his caucus to get something out that the obama administration will sign? and the senate will pass? i don't know how you do that. i think we're back to square one all over again in exactly one month. >> ironically, a party where steve lonegan probably speaks for more of the base at this point than chris christie. >> absolutely. >> steve kornacki and jimy williams, thanks to both of you. >> thanks. >> you can catch steve karnaky

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let's solve this. house gop leadership is currently meeting with president obama at the white house, and if you consider what they're having to be a conversation, speaker boehner may need a new talking point. for more we're joined by nbc's kristen welker live from the white house. kristen, what is going on there? >> reporter: well, joy, you're right. that meeting has gotten under way. we know house speaker john boehner was spotted arriving at about 4:30 this afternoon. boehner will present president obama we believe with this new plan, which would essentially increase the debt limit over six weeks. and then as a part of that plan, it would call for negotiations before the government shut down has ended. those are sort of the facts that we believe. but of course, things are fluid. so it's possible that boehner may have changed his proposal. the big question mark, will

president obama accept his proposal? i've been talking to senior administration officials who say the president isn't weighing in, and the white house isn't really going to weigh in until they actually see what is on the table. and then of course the other big question here, the other big question, boehner's caucus support and signoff on any deal to increase the debt limit. a lot of people scratching their heads about why lawmakers would offer something that would increase the debt limit and not reopen the government. the easy answer is defaulting on the nation's loans would be an economic catastrophe. treasury secretary jack lew was testifying about that earlier today. but of course anger is mounting with the fact that the government continues to be shut down, now in its tenth day. i have spoken to some republicans on the hill who tell me when they were meeting with house speaker john boehner earlier today they expressed concern this plan doesn't include an immediate resolution to reopen the government. just because they have this new plan certainly doesn't mean all sides are going