this is not a moment to take shots at each other. >> there are no winners and lose ers. it's about doing what's right. >> the senate is in session. upper chamber now taking a lead on talks to he said t s tto end government shut gown oig. some lawmakers say a deal is unlikely. others expect one in just days. >> i think things are not moving now. the last 24 hours have not been good. >> do they want compromise or surrender? >> i don't know what they want. >> i do believe we'll see a resolution this week. >> i'm cautiously hopeful,

optimistic, that we can come to an agreement and open up the government and avoid default. >> after listening to all of us talk now probably understand why 60 respect about of americans want to vote all incumbents out. >> meanwhile outside tea party activists take to the streets, protesters including sarah palin march from the world war ii memorial to the white house where riot police had to be called in. >> is this anyway that a commander in chief would show his respect, his gratitude to our military? >> also today, he survived five government shutdowns. what former president jimmy carter says about the current crisis. >> i know john boehner fairly well. he's not a coward. he has a very deifficult fragmented republican party. >> the msnbc exclusive ahead. >> i want to see a doctor. >> you can't go to the clinic

ups it's an emergency. >> this is an emergency. >> we don't see it that way. >> plus laverne cox bringing her real life experience as a transgender woman to television in orange in the new black. she'll join me to talk about how she has sparked a new way to talk about the undercover issue. and also today, water. the problem and solution for a billion people. how a nonprofit is tackling apunexpected source to fund today's big idea. a whole heck of a lot to get to, but we start of course on capitol hill where again the senate is in session on this sunday. and kelly o'donnell is working, as well. mitch mcconnell put out a statement saying there is a plan in place. democrats g s rejected it yest. is there more or less hope at this point? >> in a big picture accepsense,e is more optimism in the air. but just what's going on right

now, it seems pretty quiet and not much happening at all. sources in both parties tell me there have been no new conversations between reid and mccop he winnell and no meeting scheduled. basically what that means is mcconnell's statement which he put out saying there is this deal on the table with republicans and democrats who have come up with some ideas, take a look at that. well, we know the democrats did and the white house and senate leaders on the democratic side said no. so mcconnell is holding firm. he's had no response back from leader reid and leader rooeid's team is saying mcconnell needs to understand they will not reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling if there are some conditions attached. that's where we've been for a number of days now so the optimistic side is that at least the phone lines are open, some framework for having conversations. but if we're looking at just what's happening today, it's really been a day of no new

developments. >> tea partiers like senator ted cruz, sarah palin, this rally in d.c. got people worked up. what you can tell us about that? >> it d.c. is always a place wh demonstrators really get fired up. today is a good example. you had large crowds. many of them carried those things associated with the tea party. don't tread on me sign. they made a symbolic move with barricades. that is something that police get very nervous about if you touch or tried to move barricades that have tried to be established here. so that got police in a high response posture. what they did is they took barricades from the world war ii memorial, carried some of them to the white house and sort of stacked them up there. that's a protest to say that they don't like an open air monument like the world war ii mem or dwral has been closed during the shutdown. that has been a real con receiver difference rallying point as you know, craig, upset

about the fact that veterans have not been able to go to these memorials because they have been closed during the shutdown. so the protests have been loud and boes truss, police have been very much on point to respond. we don't know of any arrests or anything getting out of control. but it was certainly energetic. >> kelly o'donnell for us from the hill. thank you. let's get straight to the brain trust. bill snyder, melina maxwell, and john fund, from the national review. thanks to all of you. bill, the senate in session again. this is how senate majority leader harry reid kicked off the session. >> americans want session to compromise. they want congress to give check certainty and security, not more indecision and doubt. americans want congress to do its job. that's all they're asking us to do. >> that is all we're asking them

to do, bill. at this point, what's the likelihood we avoid default on thursday. >> no one can be confidenct, bu i think we're more likely to avoid default than open up the government. no one knows what happens if we go into default, but they're frightened of it, so that they will try to avoid. opening the government could be tougher. >> we had a lawmaker on yesterday who contends that this idea that we may default, that some of that has been overhyped. what say you today. >> >> probably true, but again, the markets would certainly be nervous. the markets would go down, a lot of people have money invested in the markets. it's something you want to avoid. the government shutdown is probably not so much of a problem because 85% of the government is still functioning. we even saw the statue of liberty and the grand canyon

opened this weekend based on estates putting up the money for them. one of the first rules in washington is if you have the political advantage, and the democrats have the political advantage right now, you don't demand surrender. you have to give the other side something in order to achieve the deal. right now harry reid, and i blame him more than the president, is not -- is demanding surrender and no compromise. >> is that how you read this, is that what harry reid and the democrats are demanding? >> no. this is an insane conversation because we're talking about defaulting on the debt. we should be covering this as if there is a hurricane coming that will wipe out the global economy. instead we're talking about which side is to blaem for the shutdown or the possible default. when we really need to be inserting some urgency in this. and i disagree about blaming harry reid or the president. this is a republican problem. they created this problem, they shut down the government and now they see the polls are not

looking good for them and they're trying to wiggle their way out of it. >> we'll talk about the poll at some point throughout the hour. this is senator chuck schumer this morning talking about the polls and the pressure that they have put on house republicans. take a listen. >> there probably is a new mode in the house, speaker boehner can't lead, but if the senate leads, i believe he could follow our lead. >> is that true? >> well, i think the house republicans are desperate to get it settled. if the senate puts across a plan that is even minimally acceptable, i think they will take it. the problem is health care, is it going to make any changes in obama care. >> sounds like you're alluding to the medical device tax. >> oh, no, verification of income. and also will the the navigators, the people who guide people through the health care

which x. changes, will they have cell background checks. >> but in terms of the suggestions being taken seriously -- >> those are all taken seriously. don't you want people help to go navigate the exchanges to have background checks? they don't have them now. >> this is the issue is that this is a conversation that should be had and should have been had outside of this. would you concede that? >> i think obama care started october 1st. i think some republicans mistakenly thought it was apappropriate time to launch a debate using the government budget as a lever. that obviously was a mistake. lots of people said it was a mistake. however, the problems with obama care are real and they are going to persist beyond any of the shutdown stuff. and we have -- this is the commissioner of social security until this year. obama care's exchange problems mean we could see the most widespread violations of the privacy act, we could see

identity theft exposure of addresses of victims of domestic abuse. >> and this is the conversation ad nauseum that folks have been engaged in fp. >> we're having the conversations about the problems about obama care during a crisis and nobody will come up with a reasonable solution when we have the gun to the head, which is what's happening. >> people are signing up right now and are potential victims of identity theft according to the commissioner of social security. >> that could have been highlighted -- >> why wasn't it the last three years? >> why are we talking about it now? >> you asked me. >> that's actually not what i asked you. >> you asked about what are the serious concerns about obama care that are considered reasonable solutions and i answered you. i brought up three. >> you brought up one that is a serious concern. >> you don't think not verifying

people's income for purposes of getting -- >> i'm talking about political feasibility. >> those are easy. you just verify the income. >> political feasibility. things they can get out of -- >> what's wrong with verifying someone's income they're appalachia applying for the exchanges? >> i didn't say there was anything wrong with it, but it's not politically feasible because if it was, it would have happened by now. >> you achieve a compromise by changing the definition. >> let me get a word in. there are problems with obama care and the answer is fix them. fix the problems. don't shut down the government. >> it's good to have you in person. the brain truss will take a quick break and join us later. we'll talk about other things. no, we'll probably talk about the exact same thing. again, the senate in session right now calling for compromise from both chambers of congress. republican marsha blackburn will join me live from tennessee.

good to see you, congress woman. also ahead, a flesh eating bacteria is making swimmers sick in several states. we'll tell you where. and caught red handed literally. what an eagle eye voter spotted sarah palin doing this weekend in jersey. first, though, food safety advocates are warning a serious salmonella outbreak oig could get worse during the shut down. >> this outbreak o breabreak sh that can could if public health officials aren't watching. >> it comes when most of the 13 thour ,000 workers have been furloughed. the agency has called back a handful of staffers to help deal with the bre outbreak. if i love having a free checked bag with my united mileageplus explorer card. i've saved $75 in checked bag fees.

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. topping headlines this sunday, an american soldier is dead, another wounded in a green on blue attack today in afghanistan. it happened near the border with pakistan. a man wear an afghan uniform opened fire on american o soldiers. he was not an afghan national army so army soldier. meanwhile a protest it at the world war ii memorial today. a sigh of relief for people who rely on food stamps to buy groceries. the ebt system is back up and running. people in 17 states could not use their debit style cards because of a system outage. xerox which operates the system says routine test of backup

systems caused the outage, it was not because of the government shutdown. while senators are on the hill today at work, they show just how far apart the parties remain in the house. >> there are a number of things we could do, but we cannot do it under the gun as we are now. >> we just offered you a six week extetensio extension. >> you want to do this again in six weeks? >> you want to get everything you want. >> will congress ever be able to reach a compromise? joining me live, marsha blackburn. congresswom congresswoman, we are starting to see glimmers of hope in the senate with harry reid and mitch

mcconnell talking. we have not seen a great deal of talk across party lines in the house. have you essentially rendered yourself irrelevant? >> i would say quite the contrary. we have september the senate four different continuing resolutions and i think all but one of those had bipartisan support. we have sent them 16 different funding bills. we've had about 200 democrats in the house vote with us on those members. >> you mean the piece meal bills to open the government? >> yes, it's called appropriations. that's how we fill out the budget every year. that's how we go about it. >> i would ask you why open the government piece by piece when you can open it entirely? >> we didn't want it shut down in the first place. >> that's not my question. why not open the government entirely instead of piece by piece? very simple question. >> well, and i can give you a simple answer for that. what we wanted to do is make certain that we address the funding issues of this.

we have sought to have the senate address our appropriations bills and they didn't do it. so we said if you want it in smaller bites, we'll send to you in smaller bites. so that's what they have done. they wouldn't take action on the budget. didn't do a bunch fought years. this year they wanted us to tell them we were going to give them everything they wanted in order to negotiate, so then we sent them continuing resolutions and they didn't want those. so then they didn't take up our appropriations bills. so we said we'll send you these one component at a time. i don't know how much more simple we can make it for the senate than that. >> let's move from that crisis to the one that's coming up here in just a few days. on "meet the press" this morning, cries tehristine lagar the 24rthreat of the u.s. defau is very concerning. take a listen. >> one thing we're certain around the table, it was that if there is that degree of

disruption, that lack of certainty, that lack of trust in the u.s. signature, it would mean massive disruption the world over. and we would be at risk of tipping yet again into recession. >> you've been adamant that you will not vote to raise the debt ceiling without significant spending reforms. if you don't get what you want here, are you still willing to risk default despite domestic and international concern? >> we made an offer on the debt ceiling. and asked that they negotiate and work with us. you've had 53 lifting of the debt ceiling that have taken place over the last four decades and 27 of those brought about spending reductions, all of them have had negotiations involved in the process. we have asked that the president and we have asked harry reid to please meet us at the table and negotiate this through. we're incredibly concerned about it. >> why would you vote to extend the debt ceiling by just a few

weeks or a few months? why would we want to revise it this? >> inned to allow time for negotiations because they have been unwilling to meet us at the negotiating taeble, so we said e will give you a short term lifting if you agree to hit down and work with us. we have $17 trillion in at the time. >> you mean democrats or the american people? >> we are talking about having the president and the senate work with us on this issue and deal with the long term spending problems. we cannot it continue to borrow $2 billion a day, $2 billion a day to keep the lights on. and that is what is currently happening happeni happening. >> i don't think a lot of folks would disagree that having a conversation about long term spending is a legitimate conversation to have. >> takes legitimate conversation. >> but i think a lot of folk takes issue with how that

conversation is being had. >> we've been trying to get them to work with us for five years. >> last question. really quickly. you've been of course a steadfast opponent to obama care since its inception. according to this new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, the law is gaining support now, 38% say obama care is a good idea versus 43% who say it's a bad idea. a major bump from the 31% to 44% just last month. how do you dispute the fact that digging in your heels in opposition to the law seems to be making more people in favor of it. >> well, what we have to realize is obama care started out as an $863 billion access to insurance program. it is now according to the congressional budget office a $2.6 trillion takeover of health care. >> you at the present time answer my question. >> yes, i am. it's too expensive to afford. >> you just gave me a talking point. the question was how did you

respond to the fact that the approval numbers -- >> i gave you a fact, not a talk point. >> but you didn't answer the question. the question was how do you respond to the fact that the law seems to be more popular now than it was just a month ago. >> i guess people are choosing sides. what we do know is that the website doesn't work and it is more expensive. cost of insurance is skyrocketing. and people are paying more and getting less. that's the result we're hearing. >> i'm out of time. at some point we should have you back and carve out 10, 15 minutes for a conversation. >> i would love it. thank you. >> always appreciate you coming on. thank you for your time. another example today of why everyone should use spell check. this coin released by the c vatican misspells the name of jesus. it instead reads lesus. in the 6,000 copies of the coin

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saturday to endorse senator lonegan. but she was using crib notes that she wrote on her palm trashing cory booker. you might remember she was criticized for doing the same thing at a tea party convention back in 2010. and that says leader, not tweeter. and everybody enjoy as good game of football including mitt romney. he did some tailgating at the ole miss game. he was joined by texas governor and texas a and m alum rick perry and also mississippi governor phil bryant. i was made to work.

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state media saying there were no casualty, but there are reports that several ped pds have been wounded. again, two car bombs have exploded. we'll continue to update you as the situation warrants. meanwhile, back here, severe strain of bacteria found in saltwater has killed at least ten people with 32 known infections across florida. people can get infected by eating raw tainted shellfish or coming in contact with the bacteria in warm sea water. for 30 years, jim any carter and his wife have traveled around the world building housing for families in need.m carter and his wife have traveled around the world building housing for families in need.and his wife have traveled around the world building housing for families in need. this week they were in new york city helping those still recovering from hurricane sandy. richard lui sat down with the carters to get his take on the government shutdown, defaulting

on the debt and why jimmy carter has full faith in speaker john boehner. >> reporter: president carter holds the record, he had more government shutdowns than any president in history. five. his perspective on what's happening today? >> it would be a global tragedy. >> reporter: carter's warning the additional showdown over the debt ceiling could lead to default. >> the rep putation of our couny could be damaged. we've already damaged it as the leading sdd because the shutdown of our government has given a bad name even for democracy itself. >> reporter: at a break at the carter's annual habitat for humanity build, carter reminds us though his struggles with congress were also related to health care funding, they didn't involve a default. only the budget. and he says today's stakes are much greater. >> to default on america's at the times would be a tragedy that would far exceed anything we've known financially in this country since the founding fathers created the

constitution. >> reporter: nevertheless, the 39th president thinks the default will be prevented. and part of that solution will be the house speaker facing off the tea party and the likes of ted cruz. >> i know john boehner ferry well. he's not a coward. he has a difficult fragmented republican party.he's not a cow. he has a difficult fragmented republican party.well. he's not a coward. he has a difficult fragmented republican party. i think boehner will show he's not a coward, he's a capable, courageous respectable person. >> reporter: at 89, reme mains in xlun willity work and also medal east peace. he shared how the new iranian president might represent opportunities and talks on that country's nuclear ambitions. >> i know rouhani knows a lot about western culture. he knows about how to negotiate with america and great britain it and france and germany and russia as you know. i think he also is cape able of understanding the tremendous pressures that are on iranians.

because of the embargoes and economic restraints is damaging his own cewn country. so i think compared to what we've had in the last eight or ten years in iran, we have a very good prospect in the new president rouhani to negotiate a reasonable agreement. >> reporter: and his thoughts on the nobel peace prize not going to made l to. >> reporter: i didn't criticize. >> the carters married 67 years now rush off to meet with yet another family in need. richard lui, msnbc new york. nearly a billion people around the world do not have access to clean and safe drinking water. according to a recent report from the united nations and the world health organization, some regions especially in africa are

lagging behind because folks on which miss out on improvements to drinking water and sanitation, making the water supply safe for these areas in many cases have fallen to nongovernment at groups like the thirst project. seth mitchell started the thirst project when he was 19 and it's helping many in these water starved areas these day. and it is today's big idea. seth, good to see you. >> thank you so much for having us. >> how do you get teenagers interested in the problems of people half a world away? >> i don't think it's hard to get them excited. much more are incredibly capable, much more than other people give us credit for. so i think when you present us with real world issues and needs and tangible solutions to follow up on, that we can actually engaging and do something real, it's easy to make something happen. >> you can was through this big idea, tell us how it works. how do you help get clean water to those who don't have it.

>> there are about a billion people on the planet who don't have safe water and we build fresh water wells in developing nations and impoverished communities to give people access to safe clean water. we'll hire local independent contractor, huge drilling rigs and drilling companies in these developing companies to then mobilize the local villages we' working in, train and build wells and latrines for sanitation programs. and train communities on maintenance repair and build these water systems. but we do it by traveling across the u.s., speaking at high schools and colleges to educate students, people our age, about the water crisis and then challenge those students to take action and fund raise. so we've educated about 300,000 students across the u.s. on about 320 high school and college campuses who have done dances for water, walks for water, and they have raised about $6 million in our five year history, 100% of which has gone to building wells in 11

countries giving about a quarter million people clean water. >> how did your interest in this start when you were 19? >> i was living in l.a. pursuing acting like so many other people and i had a friend who was a photojournalist for national geographic and she came back on a trip, she had been gone quite a while, she was in different developing communities for several weeks at a time building these amazing friend ships, many of whom she watched die of dysentery at a direct result of drinking mud water simply because that's all they had being a tes to. so i started researching, found out how easy it was to build wells and mobilize and just started telling my friends, talking on our campus and then getting other people involved. >> for folks who are watching who might be interested in getting involved, how should they go about doing that? >> the best thing honestly if you're a student or a parent of a student or a teacher, bring us

to your school. that's the best way for to us get involved. there are a lot of amazing water organizations, sort of our identifier is we are the world's leading youth water activism organization. so we'd love to speak at your school. we don't charge to speak. in fact 100% of all of our admin or operational expenses are covered by a separate group of donor so is that all student and public giving can go to building wells. so bring us to your school and get involved. give. $25 once, not once a month or once a year, once gives one person clean water. so go to thursdirst project.org check it out. >> seth, thank you sir. it is today's big idea. do you have a big idea that is making a difference? you can tell us about it by e-mailing us at big idea.msnbc at nbcuni.com. [ insects chirping ] ♪ ♪

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netflix series orange is the next black, you will be thrilled to know filming for season two is under way and if you're a new yorker, you'll be more thrilled to know some shooting was spotted in the city right here this week. one star in particular has really taken on a his totoric r. laverne cox is the first transgender to have a lead part on a tv show. >> i need my dosage. i've given five years, $80,000 and my dream for this. do you understand? i can't go back. >> i can't go back. laverne cox is here in the studio. good to see you. >> hi, craig. >> what kind of research did you do to really understand the issues that transgender people face in prison? >> actually when i found out about the job, orange is the new

black, i'd been prep to go interview a woman who is in prison in minnesota and she's an african-american transgender woman who basically on june 5th of 2011 was defending herself and ended up one of her attackers ended up dead and she ended up in prison. so i'm prepare to go interview her and i was doing a lot of research trans folks in prison. >> about a month after the show comes out, private bradley makes headlines by announcing wants to live as a woman. your character on the show also has to fight for hormone treatment in prison. what was it like watching the national debate play out over bradley manning? >> chelsea manning. she's asked we refer to her as chelsea. >> thank you for the correction. >> the interesting thing for me, what i immediately thought of, we have this show called orange is the new black that millions of people are connecting with and they have empathy for these

folks who are incarcerated. i wondered can that empathy transfer to real people in prison. it's something that i often think about when i think of that case. >> on the show, we learn that your character used to live as a man. your brother, real life brother, plays that part on the show. what was it like the first time that you worked with your brother? >> we actually didn't shoot on the same days. >> why? >> why would we be in the same place? we were the same person as the character. jodie foster who directed that episode, they tried to make me look really butch and jodie at the present time think i looked butch enough, so they hired my brother. never thought i'd hear that. >> there has been a great deal of talk in this country of late about just precisely how far we have evolved as a country.

on lgbt rights specifically. there is a poll, 54% of people polled said same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry. a clear reversal from where people were just seven years ago where a majority were against same sex marriage. have we evolved as quickly when it comes to transgender issues in this country? >> no, we haven't. i don't think we have. and thursday is spirit day which is the day we hopefully go purple on our social media and we wear purple to show the world that we don't support bullies of lgbt youth. and it's really about gender. when will i was bullied in alabama, on whiften anti-gay sl were used. but i was really bullied because of my gender expression. and that is the case for so many kids around the country. so we don't have the space in this culture for gender freedom, for people to live authentically in their gender.

and it's still socially sapgsed to make fun of trans people. and we need to create space where that is not okay. >> what kind of challenges or are there unique challenges that a transgender woman of color might have to deal with that a white transgender woman may not have to deal with? >> the enter ssber in-ser intery really play as bill rogue. the working class faces on top of their gender. and we look at the unemployment rate among trans people is twice the national average. trans person of color four times. so a lot of it is really intense. and it's really a state of emergency for so many trans people of color right now. >> orange is the new black is all the rage now. what's next? >> well, i'm starting on a lecture tour.

i'll be at vanderbilt on wednesday and the university of south carolina on -- >> my old stomping grounds. good luck to you. come back anytime. laverne cox, orange is the new black. catch it on netflix. now to inside baseball on the government shutdown so to speak. the ohio clock which has stood just outside the senate chamber since 1859 and served as location for many a lawmaker press conference, the clock has stopped. the workers that wind the clock have been furloughed. mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection

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the brain trust is back. contributor at thegrio.com. columnist for the national

review. speaking of the national review, john, i want to go with robert costa here, reporting from robert a few moments ago. senator lindsey brgraham will, quote, object to any bill unless the senate also votes on what's called the vitter amendment. the vitter amendment will end federal contributions to federal health care plans. in this is indeed the case, how does this further complicate -- john as well. we can all chime in. how does this further complicate any chance of a deal. >> it embarrasses congress. what they've done is given themselves a special privilege which is voters will not proe t appreciate. if they vote in favor of keeping that special privilege, they will not be forced to go on the health care exchanges, the voters may be very angry. >> why tie that in any way, shape or form to raising the debt ceiling or opening the government? >> that's the ridiculous part of it. i think all of this goes down to the fact that obama care is the law. it's a law. not a bill. not a debate.

we led to the government shutdown over something that's already the law. been passed by congress. approved by the supreme court. the debate over that should be over. >> there was an election that a lot of people say was sort of a referendum on it. >> not on this vitter amendment. this vitter amendment is new because the congressional exemption is new. >> why tie it to this? >> it's just a vote. that's all it is. >> no, no. senator graham is saying he will object if this is not connected to it. >> no, no, no. he has not said he will object if it doesn't pass. he said he will object if no vote is allowed on it. >> why vote on that now? why not open the government first? >> it's been in the news. 92% of americans say they don't like it. >> again, john, why not open the portion of the federal government that's still -- why not open the government first. >> we used to have something -- >> you're not going to answer. >> i just did. i'm about to. >> okay. >> we used to have something called appropriations bills. the government was divided up into 13 parts. this would go through the house and the senate and then would go to the president. it was piecemeal 13 parts. that's how the budget used to be handled.

until four years ago. since then the senate and the house haven't passed a proper budget. we are going back to regular order. pass the government in pieces. that's what has been done. the government has been passed in pieces and sent over. >> this his to make members of congress pay a price for the health care bill. personal price. they and their staffs will have to go on the exchanges. the public will be glad to see that. if they vote to exempt themselves it's going to be a voter rebellion against them. >> headlines quickly. almost out of time. >> what's your headline, thursday, again, real threat of default. depending on who you listen to, who you read. the threat of default is real. what is your headline come thursday of this week, october 17th? >> the gop is scrambling to recover from the crisis they created. >> that's your headline. >> yes. >> bill schneider? >> default or not default. that is the question. >> that's good. i like what you did. bill, you've covered -- you've spent a lot of time covering crises. real and manufactured. what do you think? do you think come thursday this is something that -- that we're still talking about? do you think there's --

>> we'll be talking about it because it'll go right up to the last minute, last second. here's the underlying rule. we can't solve problems in this country unless we turn them into a crisis. we have to manufacture crises in order to deal with issues. that's the only way policies get done here. >> your headline, john? >> bill is right. it's sad. washington spins its wheels yet again. >> what do you think happens? how does this play out? >> we'll have three or four more days of argument and posturing. and the government will reopen and there'll be some concessions made to republican concerns. whether or not obama care is part of that, i don't know. >> it shouldn't be a part of it. >> what's going to be interesting, also, we talk about thursday. if you look at the sheer timetable of this thing, let's say the senate gets something done on tuesday. it does not leave the 435 members of the house a great deal of time to go back and forth. >> 85% of the government is open and functioning as normal. this is not a shutdown. this is a slimdown. >> no, no, no. no, no, no.

there are mothers not getting formula for their babies. people not able to go into work and pay their bills or pay their mortgages because they're furloughed. forced furloughed. these are middle class, working class people. >> it's already been allocated -- >> wait a minute, john. that's easy to say for someone who doesn't live paycheck to paycheck. i talked to a woman this morning furloughed from nasa, down in virginia. i made that point. congress is going to give you back pay. her response to me was, if it goes on for two or three weeks, what does that mean? i don't get a check for four or five weeks. >> i'm not in favor of the government shutdown. i'm explaining why it can go on for a few more days. >> you said it's a government hitdown. >> that is what it is. 85% is functioning normally. >> fit's a slim down if you dont rely on the government for your paycheck. >> it's a slim down for many people in this country. but there are a concentration of people for whom this is a radical crash time. >> i'm not defending government. this is not me depending government. sometimes ridiculousness should be calmed ridiculousness.

>> the national debt growing by a trillion dollars a year and by half a trillion under bush, those are ridiculous. that has to be stopped. >> zerlina maxwell, bill schneider, john fund. i enjoyed you. "disrupt" up next with karen finney. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

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