learn how to hear everybody else while you're playing with them. you listen to all of them. and you know, the word solo is kind of good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. obama care is the news tonight as nbc news reports for white house intends to delay the deadline for individuals to be required to buy health insurance from february 15th of next year to march 31st. this comes on the say day democratic lawmakers called on the president to extend open enrollment and health and human services secretary kathleen

sebelius met with insurance executives. tonight the white house is strongly denying any changes being made to the deadline. they're clarifying the law's intention not to penalize anyone who buys insurance before that labor day of march 31st. while confusion reigns in washington, d.c., there's none in the states where republicans continue to wage their war against obama care, a war that began over five years ago. >> now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single american. >> before it even existed, republicans have been singularly obsessed with making sure obama care never came to fruition. >> americans need to realize when someone says government option, what could really occur is a government takeover. >> and yet the democrats come forward with a bill that really is a government takeover of our health care system. >> fought it before passed? >> this bill is not being debated openly and fairly. >> and created an entire

movement. and tried the to kill it in the supreme court. >> kill the bill! kill the bill! >> in 2012 they held their nose for this guy because he said he would kill it. >> if i'm president i will appeal obama care. >> when he lost they kept voting to repeal it. >> that's why we're here because we're saying let's repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. let's not do that. >> and this summer after months of rallies and a devastating government shutdown, the republicans failed again, and amazingly obama care is getting more popular. after all that, you would think republicans would get the message. obama care is here to stay. but no. like an unstoppable humanoid robot sent from a distant future ruled by private insurers. the republican party will not

stop trying to kill obama care. >> you can't be reasoned with. it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop. >> they're now rallying behind a new lawsuit in indiana. >> and also breaking tonight, a federal judge gives the go ahead to a lawsuit that could stop the health care law in its tracks. >> that lawsuit alleges the law as written does not allow for subsidies through federal exchanges to be applied in states that did not create their own exchange. an argument one constitutional scholar called preposterous. >> ohio republicans are fighting the medicare act. >> ohio's republican governor bypasses the state legislature to get approval to expand medicaid in ohio.

>> the expansion was approved by independent committee after it was blocked by republican lawmakers in the state house and senate. it would ensure 275,000 people in the state. yesterday six state republican lawmakers sued, saying the board did not have the authority to approve the expansion. if it hasn't dawned on you there is no end to the fight, it should by now. oh, sure. eventually they'll talk about how it's part of the nation's ironclad commitment to the people. >> this bill demonstrates for all time our nation's ironclad commitment to social security. >> but in their unguarded moments, republicans will still be saying it's a hoax. >> it is a ponzi scheme to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old, you're paying into a program that will be there.

anybody for the status quo with social security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids. >> joining me now is one of the six lawmakers who filed the suit against john kasich. why do you want to deny these 270,000 ohioans medicaid? >> chris, thanks for having me. i knew it would be fun. this has not been an issue for us in the lawsuit, chris. we found a lawsuit to preserve the constitutional system in the state of ohio that separates the legislative authority. >> let me stop you right there. i totally understand that. there's a question before the court that has to do with the ohio state constitution, and i will admit to you, representative, i am not an expert on the ohio state constitution, but the point here to me is the lawsuit you've reverse engineered around opposition to the substance of the po policy. i mean, you don't want medicaid expanded. you're going to do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen. suspect that right?

>> well, it's true i don't want medicaid expanded. and frankly many, many members of the legislature do not want medicaid expanded. we're still debating it. and frankly this action by the controlling board is preventing it. it was for two hours i sat in a hearing where all they heard was testimony for medicaid expansion. >> there's a lot of good arguments in favor of it. >> you wouldn't have heard anything else at the controlling board. they didn't allow it. it was established with a chairman that was appointed by the administration with hand picked members of the controlling board to make the point they are going to pass medication, even though as you said in your opening, and you were right, that the legislature would not pass medicaid.

and that's required to follow the intent. >> you have a republican governor. you have polling in the state that shows 62% of ohioans agree. they want medicaid expanded. i don't want to keep belaboring this, but this is where democrats and republicans and conservatives and liberals butt heads. i see before me 275,000 people in the state, people not making a lot of money. between 16,000, $28,000, somewhere in there, who have the ability to get health insurance. it seems to me there is implaquable desire to stop them from getting health insurance. why don't you want them to have health insurance? >> we have to be clear on what's happening here, chris. two years ago in the state of ohio, the citizens in every county of the state, in all the eight counties, passed the ohio health care freedom amendment saying they did not want national health care. they did not want obama care in ohio. i was elected by those citizens. >> but representative, with due respect, there is substance here.

look. >> my constitution is not processed. my oath to the constitution i take very seriously. and my constituents take it seriously. >> but you oppose the policy, too. >> well, it is bad policy. it's true. >> so explain that to me. 275,000 people going from the uncertainty and terror and psychic and physical -- no, it's not funny. people don't have health insurance. >> i drove from columbus to cleveland today. i didn't see anyone being terrorized by the lack of health insurance or health care for that matter. >> you really think people aren't terrorized by a lack of health insurance? >> the fact is you're talking about putting hundreds of thousands of people onto a failing health care system. those people will be locked into that system indefinitely. if they make a little more money they'll be off of the system. and it's paid for by bankrupted federal treasury. that's not the policy.

>> the federal government is not definitely bankrupt. >> well $17 trillion in -- that's a lot of debt. and the money that's going to be used to pay for medicaid expansion in ohio is going to increase the debt. >> right? >> the final question here. you say these people will be locked into it. the point is actually if they do make more money, they will pass out of qualifying for the medicaid expansion. you disincentivize people who want to make more money. >> we've hit a bedrock. we've come to some bedrock principle place about how people's behavior is going to be altered by this. >> thank you, ohio state representative matt lynch. i really appreciate it. joining me now is someone on the other side of this.

the governor of kentucky. your state decided to set up your own exchange to strike out into the wilderness of back ends and front ends. how are things going in kentucky? >> things are going great in kentucky, chris. we have 600,000 uninsured kentuckians. we have the worst health care statistics in the nation. we've had them since they started keeping statistics. and it was going to take some kind of transformational change for us to dig ourselves out of that ditch. and the affordable care act gives ne that opportunity. i have seized the opportunity. we're the only southern state to both expand medicaid and set up our own exchange. and i'm determined to change the course of kentucky's history when it comes to health care.

we're in the course of doing that. kentuckians are loving it. they are swarming on our website. 280,000 of them so far. we signed 18,000. the rate of a thousand people a day. 375 or 380 small businesses small businesses this are in the process of applying. this is going to work. i want to give a shoutout to my good friend governor casic in ohio. thank goodness he stepped up and put the people first and partisan politics second. that's all the opposition is. i don't care if you're republican or democrat, whether you like the president or not, you know, that's what i tell the people here in kentucky. you don't have to like the president. you don't have to like me. it's not going to cost you a dime to check them out. that's what kentuckians are finding.

>> it sounds like your website has been working very well. just those numbers, 18,000 signed up. it sounds like you pulled off this pretty difficult technical project pretty well. >> we have great people working for me. they always make a governor look good when you have good people around you. as soon as the grants came out, we got them. we made the decision early because all of our stake holders here in kentucky were for us running our own exchange. our business community. our hospital association, the providers, the advocates. everybody felt like, look, each state is unique. we know better how to design a website that will fit our state than to have to do a cookie cutter approach that you will do with the federal exchange. and so we worked hard. we kicked it off on october 1. and it's been going great guns. >> so have you faced a lot of political opposition? opposition from republicans in your state? is there grass roots opposition as this is rolled out?

what is the political experience like in the state of kentucky? >> you find your politicians like our congressional delegation for the most part are sticking to the talking points. you can give them facts. you can give them figures. thal do is look at the talking points and say it's not working, it's not working. in fact, it is working. 18,000 that are signed up right now want it i don't know what state they're from. but i'm from kentucky. they have woven the web of misinformation for months and months and months. the critics have. we're fining when people number one are ig eager to find out, they're going on the website in droves. and when they really dig down and look, man, they like what they're finding. and they're going away with affordable health care for the first time in their lives. >> rand paul can stand on their principles and do the right thing even if it means being

criticized? >> we know what ted cruz stands for. >> he stands for us. >> that moment right there at a senator john mccain town hall exemplifies perfectly what's going on in the republican party right now. i'll explain ahead. sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. hurry, this offer ends october 31st. for details, visit vwdealer.com today.

we always love hearing from you on facebook and twitter. in this epic battle to end obama care for what seems like forever. how long could this go on? seriously, we want to know what it will take the gop stop trying to kill obama care. stay tuned and we'll be right back.

for sein a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.

everything costs more to go back and retrofit the toilets that don't work, that no bureaucrat used. it will cost thousands of dollars to add some kind of jet streams to the toilet. we don't save money. we flush them ten times. they don't work. >> that was senator rand paul at a hearing on energy and natural resources in march of 2011. he has honed his anti-government message since then. if you want to be the republican nominee in 2016 there's a game you need to play. you need to feed red meat to an insatiable base, tell them things they want to hear, so you come out on top in the aye iowa caucuses and primaries. while not alienating the businesses. for a long time it habit been that hard. we talk about abortion and gun

rights. then tax rates with the wealthy. you talk about the monster that is obama care and that unites them both. but it's gotten much much harder in wake of the shutdown. we now have a case study in how to navigate the question from three of the people running. ted cruz is taking sarah palin out. if he wants them, there are book deals and cable shows and a lifetime of right wing speeches in his future. >> would you like them in a house? would you like them with a mouse? i do not like them in a house. i do not like them with a mouse. i do not like them here or there. i do not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> senator marco rubio thought his best play in the wake of 2012 who very much wanted an

immigration deal. he thought he was such a gifted politician that he could pull it out without offending the conservative base. it was like trying to straddle two continents drifting apart. he fell right into the water. now he's desperately trying to get back on dry land. desperately trying to appease people who will never like him, who consider him forever a traitor. he withdrew his support from a federal judicial nominee he previously backed. the nominee would have been the first openly gay black man to serve as a federal judge. senator paul has a built-in street cred from his last name, and he has a genetic feel for where the base is out. paul, you will notice s not associated with the shutdown the way ted cruz is. but even sew the caucusgoers in iowa will probably still have a lot of nice things to say about

rand paul. so far he's the one who figured it out the best. >> even with the sequester, the federal government will grow over $7 trillion over the next decade. only in washington can a $7 trillion increase in spending be called a cut. >> joining me now a publisher at heartland institute magazine. it's fascinating to watch these three guys try to navigate this. rubio really seems -- and i don't want to write his obituary early, but it really seems like he has a problem with the base. >> i think he does. but it's interesting to look at him and then cruz and see them making errors in terms of what it means to be a senator in this day and age. on rubio's side, he's saying let's come to together. i think both of them have made

errors in the way they approach this. and i think your point is accurate in the sense that it has been the smartest and in navigating what it means to be a senator today, which is coming up with good web names primarily. i think he's done that essentially. >> so here is a question about cruz that relates to this. has it sunk in to the grass roots, to your median iowa caucusgoer, to your median primary voter, that the shutdown was a disaster? is that a reality for them or not? >> i don't think they view it that way at all. i think the current conversation is one they all flowed into. we'll hear the argument from them.

that we wouldn't have been talking about, you know, obama care so long or something like that. from their perspective that's what he was highlighting. you talked about the plays that they are making in terms of different portions of fighting over the same kind of red meat base. i think they're very distinct. i actually think there's a lot of differences in terms of the populations they work for. and paul in particular is someone who has a unique following that is somewhat separate and distinct. >> how so? >> well, with rubio you see the great hope of the establishment. people talk about him as jed rubio. i think with paul you see a

different, a younger and a base that is pr coming from outside of the party than from within it. and that comes with not just in hearing his father's backing, but also inheriting a lot of cred. no one going to call rand paul establishment. >> he's very deft at sort of catering to those folks. cater sounds condescending. he's got this constitutional amendment now, which i love. because it's like he fired his legislative director and replaced him with an inbox of viral e-mails. i'm sure you've gotten this. it's a viral e-mail. congress shall make no laws that applies to citizens of united states that does not apply equally to senators and representatives. congress should make no law that does not apply to the united states. it's about how senators don't have to pay the law and pay off student loan debts. and here's his constitutional

amendment. congress shall make no law applicable to the citizens of the united states that is not equally applicable to congress. this is the kind of thing no one will cover, but to some folks, it means something. >> it's a beautiful approach to taking on government. and if you're coming from that school, this is something paul does believe in. there's also a test of political skill. you talked about him being up a creek and having this fail safe strategy. i think this is really going to be a test of skill. i think he is winning the skill. in a situation where you're playing out braveheart. you don't want to be william wallace. you want to be the bruce everwards. fled with ted now leave with me. >> thank you so much. up next. >> houston began building a legal case against jim crowe, showing how unequal education was between black and white students in america. >> they would film a black school. it would often be in shacks.

places with cracks on the walls. the children crowded on the benches with no desks. then he would go to the neighboring white school. two story, brick. basketball courts. >> that was a clip from a new documentary series on pbs. the creator is a man who may recognize. very excited to have him join me at this table next. i have low testosterone. there, i said it. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number.

[ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breast-feeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up.

androgel 1.62%. they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach.

this is one of the few documented safe houses on the

underground railroad and the site of at least one remarkable escape. >> mary corbett heard a knock on the door. he was fleeing and the sheriff was after him. and he pleaded to her to help him. and here's the cupboard that sam hid in. >> that? >> yeah. mary corbett brought him up here. he squeezed himself in there. >> my god. this is so tiny. >> and the sheriff decided not to look. they didn't think a man would fit in there. >> i'm too claustrophobic to go in there. >> the first known african to come to america was a free man who arrived with explorers in 1513. that's one of the riveting and fantastic new pbs series, the african-americans, many rivers to cross. which covers 500 years of

african-american history in the course of six hours. joining me now is the executive producer, presenter and writer of the series. professor gates, it's a great honor to have you here. thank you for coming in. why this series now? >> well, i fell in love with the idea of studying african-american history when i was 17 years old, sitting in his parents living room in west virginia, watching a documentary made by bill cosby. and a year later i went to jail. the first course i enrolled in was a survey course. it was taught by a white man. the book and series dedicated to two people. one of them is him. i was raised to be a doctor. my mama wanted two doctors. my brother is an oral surgeon. in the black community, a doctor is like sitting at the right side of jesus. but i knew from that course what i really wanted to be was a

scholar writing about people's history. as fate would have it, that's the way it ended up. i fell in love with the idea of being an academic. i get a job at harvard in 1991. henry hampton, the greatest black documentary film maker in history invited me to come to his production company. and this was october of 1991. and for an hour. i imagined it. i knew i wanted to make documentary film ls. so i was able to bring these two things together for this series. and to do it in the 500th anniversary of the arrival of the first african in the continent of the united states. as you said. it's a miracle. >> one of the things that is fascinating and i read about this. was the period for africans

really africans preslavery. there was a period of freeness, freedom before slavery. >> yes. >> that slavery is a constructive thing. it wasn't just there when we got there. >> right. and this is a perfect example. here is a man who shows up with ponce de leon. he is looking for the fountain of youth like the white guys. but in the british colonies and we know every other documentary started in jamestown when the first 20 angolans, and we now know these guys were from angola go to port comfort and then go to jamestown. but we know there was an indeterminate status for a few decades. they were more like servants. it wasn't until 1954 that slavery and grace became synonymous. blackness and slavery.

>> that's one of the many things i have learned from watching this. the question i have for you, is in this era, is it trending in the right direction in knowing our history when it comes to race? i can't tell. >> well, when you ask why did i do the series? i gave you personal impulse. because this has been a fantasy since that time i walked in. but every time there's a racial incident in the country, there are calls by act vis, by journalists for a town meeting. the proverbial conversation about race. i think they're good. they're necessary, but not sufficient. you're a philosopher. i don't think that that's how we solve long-term problems. think about what you learned in first grade. you learned, my country tis of

thee. america the beautiful. and your teacher didn't shape you to be a citizen by saying i am going to be a citizen. she saps you by demonstration. the same thing with race. we have to imbed the history of race and racism into the curriculum seamlessly, intertwined so every day is a conversation about race without anyone using those words. >> and i have to ask you about one of the most bizarre conversations about race that ever happened in my life, which is the beer summit in the wake of the incident that happened outside the front porch of your home. the president spoke very earnestly and honestly and expressed to me what seemed completely natural frustration with a ridiculous incident and became this bizarre through the looking glass prism moment in which you end up at if white house having a beer with the guy. how do you interpret that? >> well, it was a slow news

cycle. my two main producers. one went to harvard. one went to yale. they said, we want to include the incident in cambridge that happened to you in the series. i said that's ridiculous. we told 70 stories in the six-hour series. each story has to be exemplary of larger trends. >> i don't know if i agree with that. henry lewis gates jr. it's airing on pbs on tuesdays. great pleasure. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. my honor. she's always been able to brighten your day.

it's just her way. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include

headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. afghanistan in 2009.

on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

are the reporters and pundits doing the their job and holding the powerful to their account or contributing to a frenzy? we're going to debate that question with ezra klein and joan walsh in a bit. first the three most awesome thing on the internet. a miniature version of a fall classic. as the world series kicks off, fans are reliving some of the big moments that brought them to be big stage. folks over at sports illustrated are helping the fans enjoy them so far. in the final pitch of the cardinals and tigers series. and there's now the classic moment. yes, that's a plastic version of

the infamous pose. a fun way to look back and a reminder for boston to be thankful they were no toy recreations of the 1986 series. it's hard to believe "30 rock" has been gone for a year. fans will never forget the antics of liz lemon. it's hard to us forget because we work with him now. there are a slew of less memorable characters. everyone from human resources worker to liz lemons prepubescent agent simon. >> i got an idea for the game show last night. they even include the host of

they even include the host of homonym, the world's most frustrating game show. >> there's only one definition. it's like a nanny. a foreign nanny. >> no, it could be an exclamation about a fruit. as in oh, pear! >> what you are doing here is not right. >> congratulations to all the characters who knead the list. and the third most awesome thing, the knights of columbus are back. they're partying like it's 2004, which is the last time we got an anchor man movie. we're celebrating as only ron burgundy can. i love scotch. scotchy scotchy scotch. here it goes down into my belly. that's a new flavor for ben & jerry's. the custom news vane and full costumes talking the new flavor. we have not one but two new trailers with the return of america's most socially regressive journalists. >> you're not black or asian. >> i'm gay. >> do you sleep in a coffin? >> no, that's vampires. >> are you allowed to be out in the sun? >> those are also vampires. >> are you a vampire?

>> this is just a plug, which i really want to see it. we like to throw in the promotions. >> what in the hell is diversity? >> well, i could be wrong but i believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the civil war era. >> good to have you back, ron. you can find all the links on tonight's website . customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy.

use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms;

decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. earlier today, matt had a crazy idea, and a crazy idea can either make you kind of famous or kind of fired. his bosses told him to pack up his things and go... ♪ ...to an office...with a door. see, matt works at esurance, where crazy ideas make car insurance faster, friendlier, and fit for life in the modern world, which isn't all that crazy when you think about it. esurance. insurance for the modern world. now backed by allstate. click or call.

so have you noticed that healthcare.gov is getting a lot of coverage lately? >> this is not a glitch. this is a national embarrassment. this is just a website. this is like the easiest thing to do in the whole complicated government bureaucracy. >> what is happening in the website is a very public view of what's happening all over america in multiple aspects of the rollout. there are issues that have to be dealt with. >> setting up a website where people can go on and buy something is not complicated. people do it every single day. >> hilarious irony is that the target of the shutdown, the launch of obama care, was completely swallowed up by the news of the shutdown itself. but as soon as the shutdown ended the entire national media turned their attention to the rollout of obama care, which has been rocky to say the at least. and amid all this media attention comes an article from joan walsh, which argues that the tidal wave of obama care coverage is helping the right wing in its mission to distort people's impression of the new

law. on one hand, yes, it's important for democrats to acknowledge when they screw up and fix it. on the other hand, when the liberals rush to do that it encourages the unhinged coverage of what it would be. more specifically the problems with healthcare.gov which are real and need to be handled immediately. an article he calls out "washington post" editor ed ra klein for going on morning joe and calling the rollout a management failure. >> they were not given the information by their own bureaucracy to do it. ezra said, shocked at this piece. my job is to cover obama care accurately, not instrumentally. there are two critiques. one is when liberals criticize

the policy, they may be unwittingly be giving comfort to republicans intent on destroying the said policy. and amid the flood the zone coverage, have we lost sight of the context or the scale? i think these are really important issues to sort out. so joan walsh and ezra klein will both join us to do just that right after the break.

earlier in the show i asked what it would take for the gop to stop trying to kill obama care. i got many answers posted to our facebook and twitter accounts including mike madaris from facebook who says when the states that refuse to hear from their local voters. and lisa says when our sun burns out and don says an alien invasion of sarah palin clones. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] once in a while, everything falls into perfect harmony. [ engine revs ] and you find yourself in exactly the right place at the right time.

just be sure you're in the right car when it happens. the 2014 c-class sports sedan. power, performance and style in total alignment. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. so hurry in and try three succulent entrées. like our new snow crab and crab butter shrimp, just $14.99. only at red lobster where we sea food differently. [ male announcer ] now try 7 lunch choices at $7.99. sandwiches, salads, and more.

we're back. joan walsh and ezra klein are both here. why did you write this piece? >> because i woke up monday morning in a changed america.

we had gone from nonstop coverage, and i thought appropriate coverage of the constitutional crisis that the republican party had brought us to. the brink of global economic disaster. and suddenly the disaster was the website of the affordable care act, which is not the affordable care act. it is only a part of it. the president was right to say that. and i saw a kind of piling on, including by liberals. and i really -- i didn't do many of the things i'm accused of. i didn't say don't report on these things. i didn't say don't talk about them. i said, have a sense of perspective. this may doom the program, but it's way too early. and i think that was read as somehow prop for obama. and of course, i am the last person -- not the last person -- >> you're not the last person. >> i'm not the last person. good call. but, you know, people who are devotees of our president are sitting in their living rooms saying she's no obama bot.

>> i think a couple of things here. i read the piece that seemed to be saying -- and i thought the headline in a lot of it was clear which said folks shouldn't say too much because the president knows it's a problem and if you do as the headline said and parts of the article said, you're aiding the right wing. i don't have a huge opinion on this. i think this is kind of an important thing. some of this comes down to what you think the job is. i don't approach my work, and i work for the "washington post." i'm on the news side of the "washington post." i have no interest -- i am really not thinking about whether or not we're reporting on the failures of obama care is going to help liberals or conservatives or help democrats or help republicans. on some level i just don't care. my job is to report accurately what is going on in the website itself. i'm sorry, in the law itself. and i think one of the actual

places where joan and i disagree, and i think this is actually important is yeah, president obama has this line now that is getting repeated a lot that health care is more than just a website. and sure, it is. but that actually wildly understates what the website is doing. i think this is a bit of misinformation that has gotten out there. if this was about the front end of the website, the part people were having trouble getting into, that would be no big problem. you are dealing with the entire core of the system in the back end, though. and it's true. that isn't a website. i don't know what to call it exactly. maybe the digital architecture. when you call the health care system on the phone. when you call obama care on the phone and try to sign up, they are sending that information about you through the computer system to the insurance company, and that isn't working. and they are getting your eligibility information through the computer system. that isn't working. so no, obama care doesn't work.

and that's why this is a really big deal. and we are reporting it at the blog and by the way, we're doing the same thing during the shutdown as a very big deal. >> so what's your response to that? >> no. it's more than just a website. but millions of kids are still on their parents' policies. millions of us, myself included, are getting preventive care that we used to have to pay money for without a copay. millions are getting help through medicaid and millions more would be helped through medicaid except for republican governors. so in are a lot of great things going on. but there's a lot of people frustrated but hanging in because they desperately need health insurance. they're going to get it. it may be a complete disaster down the road. but we're not there that. i guess, ezra, what i would say to you is you're a wonderful reporter. i read you every day. i probably read close to every word you write. >> this is a brutal takedown. continue. >> i'm toast. >> but it was your tone and i think what people trust about you is your sobriety. people think you're a liberal, and that's because reality has a

well known liberal bias. but you do your job and i appreciate that. i just felt like live blogging your attempt to reach somebody on the phone and complaining about if lack of hold music crossed over. >> this is really important. i hope i have a reputation from the readership of being sober about these things. i think it's really important to keep your head about you when these things are going on. when i called the system, it's because president was saying call the system that day. the system dropped the call twice because it was so overwhelmed. i am trying through this reportage to convince people, to persuade them something has gone wrong here. you know, chris, i don't think anybody that wasn't literally writing the law that wrote much more about the law in the construction phase n the legislative phase and what we have on our blog. i mean, we have been covering this sort of every step of the way. and so the reason we are covering this with the aggression that we are is that something real is going on here. we never said the law is doomed.

what we found in our reporting, they think if this is fixed by thanksgiving, it's probably pretty much okay. but these are not small problems. and they're not okay problems. these are not things that the obama administration should be given. not least because they didn't know they were happening. and so one thing that i think is important about our role in the kind of informational ecos system is something that went wrong for the obama administration, is they didn't know. there was a breakdown between their bureaucracy and them. and it's very important, i think, i believe, i hope, for folks like us to be somewhere in the process, kind of getting out information that people don't want to hear. but that they need in order to make the decision. they would be better off today if they knew this four months ago. >> the thing i'm having a hard time getting my hands around -- ezra, you say this is a big problem. the problem is there's a context now in which the media is in its own kind of frenzy mode. >> right. >> we played this tape yesterday of the kind of genera of the reporter calls and gets put on

hold. >> right. >> and what ends up happening for me is i'm having a harder and harder time getting my arms around what the scale and context of this is. and ezra i'm hearing from you, this is a big problem. but i think there is something to be said for when the kind of jets get going. you could lose sight of the thing at the core. and i'm calling people and reporting it out. i'm having a hard time getting my hands around it. >> and so am i. but i feel like when we join in with people who have trying to kill this from the beginning and trying to kill it now, i worry about that. all i was saying was let's take a minute and have some perspective. >> that is there's two things there about perspective and instrumentality. ezra klein from the "washington post." thank you for joining us. the rachel maddow show starts now. good evening.