chrz chrz [ cheers ] >> happy feet. you've got to love it. that's the way to start the weekend. have a great weekend. i'll see you monday. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. ticked off right. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening i'm chris matthews from washington. angry republicans. or do i repeat myself? a state representative in north carolina says the president's loyalties are stuck in kenya. marco rubio trying hard to sell himself to the hard right. says the immigration reform is dead because the president

decided to kill his health care law. it max them feel rotten just to stand in the same room with this president. my question, is this going to be like this all the way to 2016? this anger, this right wing fever that never breaks? the sheer hatred that the american people, that the american people chose him as their president. not once, but twice. tonight the insatiable crazed anger of the right about the harsh reality they assumed would never be. the presidency of barack obama. david corn for mother jones and msnbc political analyst. and joy reid, an msnbc contributor. having lost in their plot to block the health care law by taking the federal government and the economy hostage, republicans have now decided to go home. they won't work with this president on anything because he had the nerve to beat them. politico reports republicans plan to block president obama on

all his initiatives including immigration reform. quote, prominent immigration supporters like marco rubio have also backed off any deal saying the obama administration has quote, undermined negotiations by not defunding his signature health care law. raul labrador says gop would be crazy to enter into talks with him. involved in the pro-immigration movement said after obama poisoned the well, the chances for substantive reforms seem all but gone. let me go to david on this. this seems to be the thing on everything. he protected his baby, health care reform. having fought for it. they're blaming him for self-defense. self-defense politically is now the reason for blaming him for everything. >> you're thinking too rationally about this. from the very beginning, you

know, on the day of the inauguration, the republicans had a meeting about how to obstruct and destroy president obama's presidency. this was back in january 2009. we know what mitch mcconnell said on what their number one priority was. stopping barack obama. now they have this great two-fer. people like rubio, he's running away from the immigration bill he helped craft because it really puts him in trouble with the tea party base of his party. so now he has a two-fer. he can say i'm not going to do this because barack obama won't defend -- or won't defund obama care. you know, it's immaturish, and you have these folks out there saying -- let me finish one second. they say barack obama is trying to destroy the republican party. it looks right now the republican party is doing a good job of that themselves. and they want to make any excuse they can for not dealing with the problems the country has whether it's health care,

immigration, jobs, whatever. you name it. >> it seems now, joy, looking into their politics on the hard right, the only way to get a hard right badge these days in other words be acceptable to the real haters is to be one yourself. i don't believe marco rubio is a hater. he's not a moderate, but he's not a far right winger. he wants to do immigration reform. he comes from a hispanic background. he wants to make that clearly part of america, that background and make it official. give these people a break. and yet he has to sell himself almost body and soul to the hard right. the only way he can do that is to act like he's this anti-obama crazy on the right. >> it's incredible. he has to opt the most -- this is how crazy this is. his prime directive. the only reason he matters really is he was the guy that was going to make republicanism cool for young people, for latinos. he was the guy who was going to open the door and broaden the tent and bring all these new

voters in. why was he going to do that? because he was the tea party guy. this was on the cover of the new york times magazine. he was going to take the tea party and modify that so it was palatable to the younger voters. but it was going to be on immigration. he was the face of that bill. he may not have been the one crafting it, but he was the face of that bill. the minute he was slapped down by right wing media, rubio has run the other way. if mr. tea party can't get immigration reform through and can't even talk about it, that party is in big, big trouble. >> let's talk about politics for a moment. i think he's got talent. i think he's got charm, likability, charismatic, good looking and all the things that tend to matter in politics. and he's young as hell and he beat charlie crist down there. he's got some victory stripes on him. is it now the new nature of the party in order to get the republican nomination in 2016

you must behave like someone who doesn't deserve it. this is the great quagmire they're going into. >> it's all about getting the nomination first before you worry about the general election. because in this country, you're going to get 45% of the vote just by having the r after your name. that's the prize for these guys. they have to bid up the craziness or the anti-obama rhetoric in order to appeal to where the votes are and the energy is within the party. the tea party base. so rand paul did a filibuster against drones and became the tea party darling of the opposition. and then ted cruz leapfrogged over him with obama care. and marco rubio, poor, poor marco rubio is left to the sideline burdened down especially by the fact he was in favor of immigration reform. now he has to get back into the anti-obama crazy contest. and the way to do that is to

burn literally burn what he worked on, his big initiative as a senator. it's kind of sad, but he's a big boy. he's making that decision to do that. >> it reminds me of a kind of political limbo rock where you have to get as low as possible, go under the limbo stick. >> how low can you go. >> exactly. you know how you remember that. catch this. this is really low. of course birther jokes if you call them jokes, are still a hit with some republicans out there. here's a north carolina state representative, an elected official, addressing a town hall this week in 2013. let's listen to him. >> i just don't think it's right at all to call barack obama a traitor. a lot of things he's done wrong, but he is not a traitor. at least not as far as i can tell. because i have not found any evidence yet that he's done one thing to harm kenya. [ laughter ]

[ fake laughing ] >> joy, it's not funny. it's horse laughter, the kind of laughter you give to someone because you're supposed to laugh. some ethnic jokes might be at least funny. this is stupid. making a reference to the guy being from kenya, it's not even clever. it has not a bit of wit attached to it. and these people, it's their way of saying we don't like him. he's ethnically impure by our standards. he's from we don't know where. what is this? you knew it was a white guy. that was no surprise. but what was this about? >> well, you know, i think at the core of the republican rage rumbling beneath the surface is the sense that the country has slipped away from them. that their parents benefitted from the new deal, they may have gone to school on student loans, but now people who are black and brown are the main recipients of the government, the welfare state. and they hate it.

they don't want to voice it openly. they never want to say it in a direct ethnic way, but it's a way of getting at this notion that people who are other than them, inferior, unworthy that president obama is the embodiment of that inferiority. remember how donald trump rose to the top of the heap when he was seen as a candidate. it was by humiliating barack obama. that's the way you get ahead. and going back to rubio, that is not a winning political strategy. americans don't respond by and large because most americans are in the middle to this kind of rage politics. barry goldwater would be president if that was successful. the john burke society would have been in if that was successful kind of politics. these are not the kind of politics that win, but they are the kind republicans are stuck with right now. >> you know, good news for people of color ought to know you don't hear black jokes.

you don't hear them. this kind of behavior in public isn't even practiced in private. certainly not for decades. and the idea that somehow that's a joke, the idea that that's wit or leadership is an absurdity. it's obviously just a slur. never thought of the way you put it about donald trump. he became a front runner for the republican nomination with the birther stuff. like there's no way he thinks that's true. go ahead. >> you know, joy used the word humiliate which i think is true. another word comes to mind. negate. they want to negate barack obama and his presidency. they want to negate him as part of america that can represent america. and they want to get rid of obama care because that's another way to negate the presidency of barack obama. >> let's get to the bottom of this. why according to this new pew poll are conservatives the angriest people in the country.

41% of conservative republicans are really angry. not just frustrated. really angry. why is that, joy? you're talking about the demographic changing, the browning of america if you will, or the combination of that with the squeeze on the middle class. a lot of their kids are going to need federal education. they're going to need assistance. it's getting that way. that 3% loan i had to get to college, those things are going to be helping a lot of white people down the road too. that's the way it's going to this country. >> david talked about this as scarcity. there aren't as many jobs. there aren't the factory jobs to get right out of high school and raise a family with a wife that can stay home and work. that ability to have that '50s america is gone. there is a competition for resources. so i think you do have a lot of insecurity. and a lot of the anger comes from fear. >> that's what i grew up in. what you just described.

industry. because we won the war. yeah. >> and people across the street from us came home from the army, got a job. you could get a great job in construction. these things are gone. and i think a lot of that is breeding rage and fear. >> also i think that's right. everything joy said is dead on. at the same time they're angry because they're losing. they're losing this political battle. they're losing on gay rights. they're losing on having, you know, barack obama as president. they see it slipping away. they're losing demographically. to me it's a lost cause like they believe that they're about to lose the civil war and this is their last gaffe. ted cruz has said that about obama care. but i think it extends to things beyond obama care that they're losing this political battle we have over cultural issues and the way we think of ourselves as americans and as a nation. that's one reason they're angry. people on the losing side of a

battle like this tend to be angrier. >> by the way, they re-examine and may feel like they're winning. the country may be getting better. thank you. coming up, you heard it here first. hillary clinton's what difference does it make on the cause of the benghazi riot will be the you didn't build that of 2016. dick cheney's out there starting the deception already implying she doesn't care four americans are dead. i think she scares. and we know it. plus voter law will kick in the butt. then he said we're not going to help lazy black people who want the government to give them everything. also one more from the tinfoil hat crowd. remember the moment this week when a woman fainted at a white house event? wingers on the right believe the whole incident was staged for president obama's benefit.

she's acting, they say. finally, let me finish tonight with the joy of traveling around the country meeting you folks. this is "hardball," the place for politics. wo big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

we know john mccain's become something of a pariah to the far right. after coined the term wacko birds to describe or discredit ted cruz and his gang. but being a man in the middle has helped mccain become one of the more popular figures these days. 48% view him favorably. that's the best in the bunch of high profile lawmakers. pelosi just 37%. harry reid also ten points under water with 40% unfavorable. mcconnell is worse. ted cruz even worse. and john boehner's the worst of all at 27% favorable. 55% unfavorable. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." dick chae knee got very good at misleading the country during these eight years as vice president. we know that from iraq. this week he labeled president obama an extremist. yesterday he called into the hew hewlett radio show and made some outrageous statements, i think, about the president and hillary clinton. even outrageous for dick cheney. here he is taking hillary clinton out of context over what else? benghazi. >> i think the benghazi thing is one of the great -- it's not just embarrassment, it's a tragedy because we lost four people that night. but what i always recall is her testimony saying what difference does it make. and the fact of the matter is it makes a huge difference. she clearly wasn't hands on and now she doesn't want to be hands on. and she's doing everything she can to avoid responsibility for what clearly fell into her

baliwick. >> he's talking about the four americans being dead including chris stevens. when she said what difference does it make. in fact, in those words she was referring to republican attacks on talking points afterwards. here's the full context of that comment by the secretary. >> we were misled that there were supposedly protests and something spraying out of that, assault spraying out of that. that is easily ascertained that was not the fact. the american people could have known that within days. >> with all due respect, the fact is we had four dead americans. was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided to kill some americans? what difference at this point does it make? it is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from happening again, senator. >> a.b. stoddard and clarence page.

a.b., you first. sometimes nuance means a whole lot. she was talking about the pr afterwards. not about what was done to protect the lives of those people in realtime. now cheney comes along with that e vun cue lar manner of his and some interviewers fall for it. they respect him too much to ask him, wait a minute, you're lying here. >> well, yeah. >> he's saying things she didn't say. she didn't say what difference does it make four people are dead. it's what difference does it make what the matter of the protest was. >> she still shouldn't have said that. >> i agree with that. but that's not what she's referring to. >> that is a great mark on her otherwise very impressive tenure as secretary of state. >> was cheney accurate in saying she didn't care four people were killed. >> he doesn't exactly say that. it sounds he says what difference does it make because

four people were dead. if he'd been corrected, he would have said no, no, no, i'm saying that in her testimony four people were dead. >> okay. i watched this team conflate stuff all along. iraq with 9/11. they're brilliant at it. they throw one thing with another. and the lazy viewer that's not focused goes i guess so. but she didn't say that. here's more from dick cheney's interview, by the way. talking about osama bin laden's killing. according to cheney, the president failed to do something. let's listen. >> one, i was glad they got him. two, they needed to recognize as some have although he never really has all the work that was done by our intel professionals over ten years to make that possible. >> so the president never recognized all the good work done by our agencieagencies. it's not true. he's repeatedly given them credit.

just days after the killing of bin laden, he even went to the cia headquarters to talk in person. here's this president's message that cheney must have missed. >> they have returned just to say thank you. on behalf of all americans and people around the world, because you carried on, you stayed focused on your mission, you honored the memory of your fallen colleagues. i wanted every single one of you to know whether you work at the cia or across the community, at every step of our effort to take out bin laden, the work you did and the quality of the intelligence you provided made the critical difference. >> clarence? >> let's be clear. dick cheney isn't upset that president obama didn't recognize the intelligence community. because obviously president obama did recognize that community. he's upset that obama didn't recognize dick cheney and george w. bush. and all the wonderful work they did over the years to get to bin

laden, et cetera. >> torah bora. >> he's not alone. there are many others who say the same thing. >> except we went to war to get the guy and had a war without getting the guy. >> let's talk about what cheney's really talking about. it's not a counterintelligence. it is politics. and he's playing attack dog role as he did as the v.p. and a running mate. now he's supporting his daughter liz out there who is also -- >> i think that's the light motif. it's daddy backing daughter, which i understand. cheney also hit president obama for seeming to take a victory lap after the killing of osama bin laden. he says the president should have kept the whole thing quiet. let's watch. >> by going public the way they did, they lost, i am convinced, some opportunities. you don't go out and broadcast the fact that you've got the guy. you want to take that intelligence and be able to exploit it over the next few nights. and wrap up large parts of the network. they were in such a hurry to go

out with bin laden, in such a hurry to go out and announce victory that i'm convinced they probably did not get maximum damage out of the intel they had captured. >> anyway, they were in such a hurry to get the news out according to mr. cheney. of course that's something the bush white house was never guilty of, right? >> ladies and gentlemen, we got him. [ cheers ] >> that was paul bremer trumpeting the capture just hours after it happened. is this just nonsense we have to listen to this and one of the reasons people don't like politicians is the b.s. factor? >> we're reminded of the pip pock si of when you have the convenience of voting against the debt ceiling increase. i think it's prerequisite for being president, being hypocritical. that said, dick cheney when he's talking about how they mishandled killing osama bin laden knows that if they had a chance, they would have loved to

have gotten bin laden during their years in office. and if they might have dragged out -- you stole my line. >> i'm sorry. >> the mission accomplished banner. they might have dragged out the old banner which at that point was toxic politically. and i think, you know, it's sour grapes to say that they took bin laden out in some kind of wrong way. if they had to get him in a shootout, they would have gotten him that way. >> let's go to the big enchilada that's bugged me. cheney talking us into the iraq war. and he also had words for the president's handling of syria. let's watch that. >> if you're a friend and ally of the united states in that part of the world tonight, you have to say what's this guy all about? can we count on anything he's told us? is the historic relationship between us and the united states worth anything? the same time our adversaries out there no longer fear us.

and i think the incompetence of this administration and the way they've handled these kind of affairs especially in the middle east is one of the worst aspects of this presidency. >> well, a tough indictment would be more convincing if it wasn't coming from the guy, him, who got the middle east so wrong in the run-up to the iraq invasion. remember these pearls of wisdom from mr. cheney. >> regime change in iraq would bring about a number of benefits to the region. when the gravest of threats are eliminated, the freedom loving of the region will have a chance to promote the values of lasting peace. >> you think the people are prepared for a long, costly, and bloody battle with significant american casualties? >> i don't think it's likely to unfold that way because i really do believe we will be greeted as liberators. >> did that turning of the head to tim the attempt to bond is a turn off. >> the power of positive thinking. >> of course we know that

bonding, we know every time he did it it was dishonest. >> there were so many strategic mistakes that that administration made. and they aren't the first. >> you're being kind. they wanted us in that war in the worst way and got us into that. they said anything to get us in there. cheney with his five deferments were pushing for it. >> it sounds like he was unhappy we didn't invade syria. >> i'm sorry, a.b. has a view. i can tell it's coming. >> you can tell in this interview and others he enjoys his view as the unapologetic. >> there's a couple guys that never are questioned about their own records. they can talk like prophets when they've always been wrong. how do they do it? >> well, i'm snnot going to characterize it generally. he's burned by the fact when obama came in and ran against

mccain and hillary, he ran on bush fatigue and how one of his characterizations was that we -- bush had ruined our alliances around the world and really made more enemies during his tenure. now republicans and conservat e conservatives are taking advantage of the fact we're having problems with the allies. >> barack was right about the war. they were wrong. that's what bugs them. thank you a.b. stoddard. but you're wonderful. and clarence page, you're wonderful. up next, the latest right wing conspiracy theory about president obama and the health care law. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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although it is impressive he put a tap on the chancellor himself. who could have gotten close enough to do something like that? oh, my god! that's what it was. he was planting the bug. unbelievable. >> wonderful. time for the sideshow. that was jon stewart. last night on the fallout in germany over new disclosures. i guess we've rubbed the chancellor of germany the wrong way again. next you might remember the woman who almost fainted in the rose garden this week during the president's speech on the affordable care act. some conspiracy theories out there on the right say they believe the whole incident was staged by the white house, a blog post on lady patriots said the woman who fainted as used as a prop. listen to this. quote, obama has to have props around him when he does one of his con-jobs in the rose garden or wherever he chooses to

deceive or receive his worshippers. the allegation was posted by the weekly standard and yesterday gained more attraction when sarah palin said, she couldn't blame someone for believing it. quote, with the obama white house's total lack of transparency, it's no wonder that some will ask whether they stanled even a fainting lady in the rose garden. what was once a major leap in logic has become a single step because president obama has lied so often and blatantly. we have no idea where sarah palin, by the way, what she reads. and we don't know where she gets her ideas. coming up, a local republican official says new voter i.d. laws are going to kick the democrats in the butt. that's not the worst of what he said. and you're going to hear it next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ because an empty pan is a blank canvas. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother.

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i'm milissa rehberger. seven people were hurt when a crowd tried to rush through a gate in washington, d.c. they were trying to get into a homecoming concert. jpmorgan will pay $5.1 billion to settle claims about risky investments up to the financial crisis. and dna tests have linked a blond girl to a bulgarian couple. not sure if she'll be returned to them. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." sooner or later i'm going to talk about a friend and personal lawyer of johnny carson. he's written a book about the tonight show. wait until you hear the stories of johnny's drinking, divorces, being beat up by the mob. incredible stories we never knew about. now the latest return to limit voting especially by minorities and young people. in both north carolina and texas, restrictive voter i.d. laws are being unmasked now as

the voter disenfranchisement mechanisms they are. a republican precinct chairman from -- you won't believe what this guy says on the record. >> the law is going to kick the democrats in the butt. if it hurts a bunch of college kids who are too lazy to get up and get a photo i.d., so be it. >> right, right. >> if it hurts the whys, so be it. if it hurts a bunch of lazy blacks, so be it. >> it just so happens that a lot of those people vote democrat. >> gee. >> there he is being sarcastic about it. that was not an actor. that's a good reason to think he might be. he was asked to resign as county chairman. he described his fellow republicans as gutless. a texas district court judge who

has been voting for 50 years now has one problem. thanks to voter i.d.s in texas, they are enforceable since the gutting o the voting rights act. sandra watts driver's license has her last name as her middle name. she was forced to fill out a provisional ballot that may not get counted and she was not pleased. >> what i have used for voter registration and for identification for the last 52 years was not sufficient yesterday when i went to vote. this is the first time i've ever had a problem voting. i don't think most women know that this is going to create a problem. that their maiden name is on their driver's license which was mandated in 1964 when i got married. and this. and so why would i want to use a provisional ballot when i've been voting regular ballot for

the last 49 years? >> codirector of the advancement project and a texas state representative. let me start with you, judith. this -- you know, my wife is classic. she went from having her middle name she was born with to cunningham, her maiden name as middle name. same first name on the ballot. same last name. kathleen matthews. but for this judge, she couldn't vote. in the same exact situation. with it which a lot of married women do. it's still the first and last name the same. what's the problem with these court officials and why would a law interfere with the way married people get married and move on. >> i'm judith brown dianes so i have this problem. this is crafted to hit those in record numbers -- >> this is aimed at women? >> it was aimed at women. this law was aimed at women.

this law was aimed at minorities and young people. >> was it a general set of hurdles set up under the theory that republicans are better at dealing with hurdles. or just pointed directly at women and minorities? >> it's pointed directly at women and minorities because of the fact there's an agenda that they want to pass in the state of texas and in the state of north carolina. >> let's check this out with representative dukes. do you have any reason to believe there was a markup in texas where a bunch of right wingers sat together and say how could we make it hard for women to vote? how about this? if they're married and took their husband's name which is traditional. it'd be hard for them to vote. >> absolutely. it was orchestrated during the vote on voter i.d. we democrats brought up actual instances in which women would be disenfranchised or minorities or even some elderly persons who didn't have birth certificates on records. and it was brushed off totally and completely.

and in the dark of the night during appropriations process and conference committee, language was added to the appropriations bill to put in additional hurdles for even acquiring a driver's license or an i.d. just in case voter i.d. didn't pass. so they were looking at every angle they could in order to eliminate the ability and disenfranchise many from the right to vote. >> you know, it reminds me of what i've been saying awhile. if a right wing right guy in this country, you want african-americans to behave a certain way. they're right about this except for the attitude about this. obey the laws, raise your family, be a good husband, go to school, finish school, do well in school, get as. be a good father. don't break the law. be ethical. that's obama. they may not like his politics, but he's exactly the man they want all african-americans to be. they also say it's patriotic to vote. get out there and vote.

i don't care what the weather's like, don't care whether they're not that interested. vote like a republican. show up every time like we do. when the minorities a enthe democrats or both show up and try to be good voters, they say got ya. got ya. what can you do about it down there? you're a lawmaker. >> well, absolutely. and in washington, d.c., and the united states district court, i testified concerning the turnout of minorities as it related to our redistricting battles which is connected to voter i.d. because the whole purpose is to be -- is their reasoning for wanting to elect more people in their party so they can then control redistricting. and what we saw was that there was a higher turnout of african-americans in 2012 and in 2008 because african-americans were proud that there was an individual who graduated from harvard with a law degree, who

was articulate, that happened to be african-american to vote for. so the turnout nationally was six to eight points higher for african-americans. the courts, the u.s. supreme court used a higher turnout of african-americans as a reason to throw out section four of the voting rights act. which is ridiculous. because of having the ability to challenge the measures that republicans were putting in place, more african-americans, more hispanics, more women, more young people felt comfortable in going to the polls and knowing that they were not going to have to recite the preamble to the constitution or some poll tax. >> in greek. >> yes. >> why are they so open about it? why do they do interviews about it. they're actually doing it now. >> this guy was actually refresh thing. and guess what, he had to resign under force. right? because they don't want people to know that that's what this is about. it's about suppressing the vote. >> we had the guy in

pennsylvania that came out and said -- >> about mitt romney. i wish they'd be honest about it. >> it just shows where you can live in little communities and get away with this stuff because no one's actually listening. but everything is viral now. thank you. thank you for joining us. up next, if you're a public figure you find yourself in trouble when you're the butt of the late night jokes. for that we can thank the great johnny carson. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ as your life and career change,

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well, this weekend bill clinton hits the campaign trail in virginia for terry mcauliffe. he's in good shape in the governor's race. let's check the "hardball" score board. mcauliffe is maintaining his lead over cuccinelli. and the libertarian in the race at seven. we'll be right back. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely.

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go long. it is commonly assumed in washington that once somebody reaches the point where you use them in your monologue, they're through. >> president ford is considering an income tax cut for people in lower tax brackets. that's the good news.

now, the bad news is he still hasn't figured how they can get an income. good political news. bill clinton has laryngitis, lost lost his voice. >> and i have a late breaking news bulletin. world war 3 was just declared. i'm just kidding of course, not really. i just wanted to get a ring out of bed to watch the monologue. >> we're back. to many, there was no bigger star than johnny carson. one of the most famous and recognizable people in america. his long-term attorney described by carson as his best friend. henry bushkin has written a new memoir about the king of late night. he was a funny, charming, generous guy to his guests and welcome in our homes. he reveals the darker side of carson that america never knew. and struggle that led him down a

painful path of four broken marriages, estrangement from his sons, a battle with alcohol and even violence. henry, thank you so much for joining us. i was against the idea of the book but i'm glad i read it, so you win the argument. let me talk about the, i have to tell you one bit of news you may not know. when i was with president carter, the chief of the speech writers would have the army signal corps keep track of all the carson monologues because we knew once he turned on somebody, you were gone. i want you to give me an answer because you knew the guy. i thought he was the best company in the world. if i wasn't doing anything, i'd get my peanut butter and crackers and coke and couldn't wait to sit there with johnny carson. the best company in the world, yet you portray a guy in

miserable condition, drinking himself to waste every night. >> the drinking stopped when he moved to california in 1972. the drinking i described was really in the early days in new york. i described a complex and complicated guy. one the public never knew. i think it's great we're talking about it and he's due for a renaissance revival. he had no memorial. there was no funeral. he faded away after he retired. we're talking about him again. this is a good thing. >> i used to drink a lot and i quit drinking because of this problem. you can't lead two lives. how was he able to physically get up in that new york studio at 30 rock and be debonair, sweatless, positive, having been up all night drinking? >> he didn't have to be in the studio until 3:00 in the afternoon, so if he went to bed

in the 3:00 morning he could get up at 2:00. so it wasn't a long stretch to walk when he lived in new york, but those were the days behind him when he moved to california. >> do you think he feared his death when he got the mob hit contract on him? did he fear he was going to get killed? >> i think he fears he was going to get hurt. i don't know about killed. but he did the safer thing. he stayed home. nbc solved the problem for him by broadcasting the columbus day parade back then, which was merely an ode to the five families and nbc covered it. no one else would. that ended the problem. >> what do you think about his news judgment? >> his what? >> what do you think of the news judgment of covering something you didn't think was news worthy to save the head of your top comedy show? >> as i wrote it, i hope the reader would see it as a great

deal of fun. it was no fun then. but you take tragedy and add a lot of years and it comes out to comedy. i didn't write it as a bit. >> there's a sad bit of business, everybody finds out his wife has been cheating on him. one of these beautiful women he married. they all were beautiful. he found out one was cheat wg a famous football star. they go over to the apartment in new york city and with you, you took the opportunity to say he paid for the apartment, it's his right to go into it. >> it was not a good thing. it was a horrible thing. he was sobbing. we all wished we weren't there. you could imagine it happening to any of us. it's just a bad thing. but again, it was horrible then. i wrote it 43 years later essentially. >> yes or no, were he and ed

mcmahonfrie friends? >> yes, social friends, yes. but it waned over the yearses in california. johnny was at one strata and ed was at another. >> thank you so much. i do recommend you read it. thank you. fame on television. we'll be right back after this. people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions-- it matters. ♪

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the best thing about traveling around the country on behalf of my new book is meeting the people who watch "hardball." again and again, i wish i could record the wonderfully nice things people say. the one on jack kennedy to his beloved wife before she died, reading it to her. i treasure all the times how a husband watched me right to the end. there's nothing that means more to me than hearing i've been good company to someone. that they figured me out and just liked spending time with me talking about our country. the print library in baltimore and later tonight at 10:00, i'll be a guest on alec baldwin and tomorrow at 1:00 p.m., i'll be up in barington, rhode island. i've had exciting times in and covering politics in those early years with