which guests would you like to see on our broadcast? what did you miss in today's top lines? know that we're always listening and we do appreciate your feedback. coming up right now, my friend and colleague, ed schultz, and "the ed show." good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> look at poverty in this country. >> the mentality of the country has shifted from self-reliance to where's mine? give me mine. i want mine. >> narcotic irks. >> entitlements are narcotics. i mean, you have food stamp junkies riding the meal nopony two, three times a day. >> everybody out of work is eating, have a big screen tv, have a car, have a cell phone. >> sometimes first thing they do in the morning is wake and bake. >> go ahead, msnbc, show the

world what you're creating. >> 28% of the american people are what i would call dependent on government. >> why don't you show what this president is doing to people? >> the obama administration is encouraging parasites to come out. >> keep familying from falling into poverty. >> if that's not putting people back into chains, i don't know what is. >> well, some folks just see the world differently. don't we? great to have you with us tonight. thanks for watching "the ed show" here on msnbc. there's some things in government, there are some things in this country, that you simply cannot separate. farmers and food. real basic stuff. you know that we have the absolute best farmers on the face of the earth? that we can produce more, our technology is so advanced as opposed to the rest of the world. we are the bread basket of the world. we can produce enough food to feed the world if we wanted to. that's how good our farmers are.

that's how good our universities are. our research, and our technology. and let's not forget the equipment that is made here in the united states. it is the bread basket. it is the key to america. it is the key to a stable society. we have seen, and history has showed us today that this is what happens when people go hungry. when you don't have agriculture at the pinnacle of society. when you don't have people producing the way they should. when you have people who are in bread lines. these are pictures from the great depression in america. and at that time, 1933, what we did as a country, we adopted a policy that we weren't going to have these lines anymore. we made sure through the farm bill that there would be an abundance of food. that we adopted a cheap food policy that what we did as a country, we made a decision that it was going to be much easier

for an american citizen to work and go to the grocery store and to be able to feed themselves. what a wonderful concept. yes, the farm bill led us to this. the cheap food policy. and the one thing that we have to remember about the cheap food policy is it's still there today. and it works. in part of the cheap food policy is the farm bill. which, of course, is nutrition. food stamps. school lunches. and food security for the country. we're not going to go hungry anymore. we can produce. and you know what happens when people get hungry? they follow extremists. that's what they do. that's what happened in germany in the 1930s. the agricultural markets collapsed. the country couldn't feed itself. and you know the rest of the story. this is important stuff. this is what the country needs

to focus on. we don't ever want these days again. but what we're seeing from republicans is nothing but a bunch of division, a bunch of distractions. we have seen it with their attack on the irs, and, of course, there's this big controversy with benghazi. anything to soak up the news cycle to throw something negative on the president. but not focusing on what is so terribly important for america. republicans don't want you to pay attention to the real scandal because it is a scandal that they created. it's called the hunger cliff. and make absolutely no -- republicans are the ones shoving folks off the edge. why? well, we're just spending too much money. in just seven hours, that's how much is set to be automatically slashed from the federal food stamp program. the s.n.a.p. program received a

temporary boost under the 2009 recovery act. that increase expires at midnight tonight. house republicans are basically nowhere to be found on this crisis. they're off until november 12th. they don't care about the poor. if republicans had their way, in fact, they would go so far as to slash another $40 billion out of the food stamp program. when these automatic cuts are impleme implemented, benefits will fall for 47 million lower income americans. that's a big number. this is going to hit a lot of kitchen tables in america. like, 14% of all u.s. households. and the worst part, republicans see these cuts as a political win against society's takers. >> you look at china, they don't have food stamps. if you look at china, they're in a very different -- they save for their own retirement security. they don't have afcc. they don't have the modern

welfare state. and china's growing. >> this bill is designed to give people a hand when they need it most. and most people don't choose to be on food stamps. most people want a job. and if others, and there may be some, that choose to abuse this system. that's not out of the realm of possibility. frankly, it's wrong for hardworking middle class americans to pay for that. >> and my motivation has only been to introduce the blessing of work to abled bodied people. >> what we have done in this country is wrong. we have -- we have failed in introducing the blessing of work to abled bodied people who have the ability, who are mentally, physically, psychologically able to work, and with have robbed them of knowing a better life that they help create for themselves and their families. >> think about that. nearly every state in america, people are getting food stamps

who are abled bodied citizens, not elderly, without children, abled bodied adults who don't have to be required to either look for work or be in a position where they're getting trained to be prepared for work. >> i looked at second thessalonians 3: 10, for even when we were with you, we gave you this rule. the one who is i'm willing to work, not eat. >> always good to throw in a little faith, isn't it? so the republicans can justify their position. because they're so concerned that the average s.n.a.p. recipient receives about $133 a month in benefits. let's break that down. it's a little more than $4 a day. break it down again. it's $1.40 per meal. in order to qualify for food stamps, an individual has to make less than $15,000 a year. and this is the focus of the republican party and all of those politicians you just saw talk?

this is their focus? this is what the conservatives are all about? they are heartless. when republican members of congress are yanking home $174,000 a year, with benefits, pension and health care, those folks, they say on food stamps are getting too much? these cuts are going to leave millions of americans hungry, and potentially do some serious damage to our economy. economists have found out that, and projected that every dollar of s.n.a.p. spending generates $1.70 in the local economy and the economic activity in america. this will hurt the revenue of 250,000 grocery stores and supermarkets across the country that accept s.n.a.p. payments. it's a domino effect. once again, house republicans don't care about small businessowners, either. there's a lot of small grocers out there that certainly work with the food stamp program.

and you know what? this is a scandal. no, it's not the irs. it's not benghazi. and it's not people losing their health care with these notices that are coming in. this is the scandal. this is the most kicking the least right in the teeth for no reason at all other than unmitigated greed. go back to ted kennedy on the senate floor in 2007. when does the greed stop? i'll answer you tonight. never. they are concerned. these people of faith are concerned about people who make less than $15,000 a year. they're the problem. they're able bodied, they're fat, sitting on the couch. they ought to get off their ass and go work. no, that is not the case. less than 1% of fraud is found in the food stamp program. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question.

do you think these food stamp cuts are cruel? or necessary? text "a" for cruel, text "b" for necessary to 67622. you can cause go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com and leave a comment. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me tonight is a man i really admire. he has been very successful in the food industry. he's a fabulous chef. he's famous. he's a food activist. tom colicio. thanks for being on "the ed show" tonight. i appreciate it. food is your life. i look at all the different things you have been involved in. you and your family are so terribly unselfish. it takes americans like you to bring attention to this story. you participated in a documentary called at a place at the table" which addresses the issue of food insecurity in america. let's take a look, please. >> meal assistance programs in

united states are very hard to qualify for. it's like either starving or don't get any help. what defines starving? if you don't eat for a day, are you starving? in their eyes, no, but in your eyes and the way you feel, of course. >> tom, it's great to you with us. >> thanks for having me, ed. >> this is a moral issue, isn't it? >> it definitely is a moral issue. the majority of people who receive food stamps have at least one member of the family working. they were working the year before they received food stamp, usually working the year after they receive food stamps. so this is a program that actually gets people on their feet. and i'm not quite sure why you just took 14 million children and 17 million seniors to go out and get a job. do we want to bring back sweat shops? i don't think that's where we want america to two. >> what fixes this? >> what fixes this is good programs. we fixed it in the '60s and early '70s. the 850 '80s came around.

when i see this much hunger, 50 million americans struggling to feed themselves, what this tells me, it's a canary in the coal mine. it shows me our democracy is failing on some level. when you have 50 million americans not able to participate in the american dream, something has gone wrong here. and so we have to stop looking at programs like snv.n.a.p. and wic as a handout. when you have children going to school hungry, they can't learn. we all know education is the way to break that cycle of poverty and you have kids going to school hungry, they can't learn. seniors who have to make decisions. this is going to happen tonight. after tonight, seniors have to make a decision whether buy medication or food. kids are going to start going to school hungrier than they are now. this is a breakdown of not just a social safety network, but a breakdown of our social fiber. >> where is the disconnect from what you can see? we have a political part that wants to cut if they could $40

billion out of this. tonight, as you said, it's going to be $5 billion. this, of course, was a supplemental part of the stimulus package from 2009. their proposal is to gut this program. you see it, you know, on the ground, with all the community work that you do. what would $40 billion do? >> well, $40 billion cut, what the house is suggesting. the senate is looking at a $4 billion cut. they just went to conference now. what i'm hearing is -- which is actually the best thing is to not have a farm bill and just to do -- >> really? >> -- a cr because the cuts won't take place. >> continuing resolution. so basically the last farm bill wasn't all that bad and commodity prices have been very good. farmers have done very well. let's just continue on. >> you asked the question why. it's an easy target. you know, they know that people of low income don't get out there and vote for whatever reason. it's starting to change. they're starting to vote. when you have people that were middle income now actually sort of struggling with poverty, they'll change. the first person who loses an

election over a vote to cut s.n.a., things will change. >> a vote to cut s.n.a.p. in gerrymandered districts were our political system is starting to get rigged. >> you showed the hypocrisy. $3.2 million from the same farm bill that includes nutrition programs. so he wants to cut nutrition programs but yet still wants farm subsidy money for his family. $3.2 million. that's hypocrisy. when people see the hypocrisy, that's when they vote them out. >> tom colicchio, great to meet you and have you on the program mind wife and i have admired your work for a long time. thanks. i appreciate it. thanks for the work you do. you're a guy who's had so much success. you could go home and eat dinner and not worry about this stuff. >> sure. >> you have taken it upon yourself to be active in this community and nationally. i commend you for it. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it very much. remember to answer tonight's question there at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter

@edshow and facebook. won't to know what you think. coming up, michele bachmann's land of make believe. plus, conservatives are protecting garbage insurance plans like a bunch of junkyard dogs. stay with us. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology. a 50,000-pound, ingeniously wired machine that optimizes raw data to help safely discover and maximize resources in extreme conditions. our current situation seems rather extreme. why can't we maximize our... ready. ♪ brilliant. let's get out of here. warp speed. ♪ as your life and career change, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust your retirement plan along the way, rethink how you're invested, and refocus

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>> three words. fab-u-lous. >> the number three trender. healthy imagination. >> what i want is the finest possible health care for america that we can have. >> michele bachmanle bachmann h fabulous fantasy. >> we had fabulous health care and i think we can again. >> a lot of people didn't have fabulous health care. there were millions of people who had no health care. >> it should be voluntary. if there are people without health insurance, we get that. >> get it, got it, good. >> the number two trender, billowing. >> what would jesus do? >> you have an interesting theory as to why he was crucified. >> some people might be thinking you're doing this as some kind of publicity stunt. >> it's absolute fact. >> bill o'reilly thinks jesus was a perfect fit for the tea party. >> he interrupted the tax money flow. tide goes in, tide goes out. in the temple, when he saw the tax collectors dragging the money out of the poor people and overturn their table. and once he did that, his fate was sealed. >> i don't know what that means.

>> and today's top trender, cheap talk. i can't use the "s" word. >> oh -- >> they have crappy insurance. we're going to be getting rid of junk insurance plans that haven't delivered anything for the american people. conservatives won't trash junk insurance. >> you can keep the plan that you have and like, but there's a but in our health care right now? there's a but in the system? >> that's a big but. >> the community is welcoming the destruction of what are called, you know, the skinny plans. >> you find something goes wrong so you pick an enemy and you demonize somebody else. in this case, it's the insurance companies. >> this just kills the market. >> we chose those policies and yet the president says you didn't choose well. >> what else would you expect from the republican party but a bunch of damn junk? ♪ too much junk ♪ too much junk >> joining us tonight, congresswoman jan schakowsky of illinois. congresswoman, great to have you with us tonight. this has really been an amazing

week the way this story has unfolded. the republicans have exposed themselves as the party that will certainly defend corporations but also defend policies and lay it on the president as a liar. totally put, casting aside the standards that have been placed to protect consumers, to elevate and upgrade insurance coverage and health care in this country. i mean, this -- it is almost amazing how they have handled this. your thoughts on do you find it amazing that republicans are defending junk insurance policies? >> well, and you heard michele bachmann say we had a fabulous health care system before insurance. you know, the number one cause of personal bankruptcies is health care. and the health care bills that people have racked up. most of those people are insured. and that's because they ended up with policies that don't have

the consumer protections. that don't have a limit on out of pocket costs. that don't protections against canceling those policies if you get sick. or cover pre-existing conditions. or have a cap on lifetime expenditures. >> congresswoman, is it possible that your colleagues over on the other side of the aisle didn't know about these standards? >> well, you know, they first went after the website. i think they figured out now that that is going to be fixed. and so they wanted to go after these plans that were -- that had been so bad. but i have to tell you, ed, it is frustrating right now, even for people who helped write and support obama care, what i'd like to tell those people when they get those letters is you can go on the website and you can find something that will be better for you. >> far better. >> that will actually provide you more coverage, better coverage. and possibly even at a lower

rate than you were paying before. and certainly limiting the out of pocket cost. about $6,500 is all that you have to spend on these new out of pocket when you get these new policies. >> i hope the republicans don't give up on obama care. i hope they keep making fools of themselves. on the other hand, are democrats prepared to focus on health care between now and the midterms and not let this go? i mean, i think this is a turning point. people get quality. americans get fairness. americans get quality. americans get a lower rate. and that is what is happening with obama care. >> well, it's estimated that about 60% of the people that sign up for obama care may be partly medicaid as well as a private plan. 60% will pay $100 or less, and if you're talking about the 18-year-old to 34-year-old, it's estimated that about 50% of them

will pay $50 or less. >> how do you -- >> there are some good buys. >> how do you think this will effect campaigns in 2014? >> i think it's going to matter how the website gets fixed and how it goes after january 1st. and so all of us are really encouraging, trying to be helpful in figuring out how to make this work. you know, and that's what we really need from the republicans. >> what's the buzz within the caucus about the way the media is spinning this? >> well, look, i have to tell you, you know, that members, democratic members are frustrated, too. partly frustrated because all the real benefits, i mean, just think of it, ed. the end of pre-existing condition exclusions. the end of gender ratings so that it's not a pre-existing condition to be a woman. you know, all of these seem to have gotten lost in all of these republican attacks. so, you know, the democrats are holding firm, of course, in

supporting obama care, but very frustrated by these attacks, and frankly, frustrated by the rocky rollout that's been there. >> it's a keep on trucking moment. there's no question about it. >> there's no question. >> i mean, i hope they keep trying to defend this and take apart this part of the bill because it really rips a scab off what the republicans are all about. they clearly favor the corporations. they are not doing and acting with the consumers in mind. and, you know, the party that always talks about freedom and competition, that's what this is about as well. >> of course, it is. the freedom -- the freedom to be able to cover yourself and your family, know that you're going to be able to get insurance for that child with a disability, for your wife who has cancer. you know about that. you know, that's freedom. that is real freedom. >> it is. >> and they want to take that -- they want to take that away. i said to them in committee, after 3 1/2 years of a concerted

campaign to defund, to derail, to repeal obama care, get over it. help us. >> they can't. congresswoman jan schakowsky. good to have you on "the ed show." appreciate your time tonight. coming up, scott walker's new book and the thin red line between fact and fiction. plus the original bad seed of the cruz -- ted's father goes on a racist rant against the president. but next, i'm taking your questions. "ask ed live" is just ahead. stay with us. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires.

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cool ones and apparently plays a hell of a lot of golf. that would be an easy dress-up. i have a lot of golf shirts. our next question is from gary raab. he wants to know "what do you believe the american dream to be?" well, i can tell you what i think the american dream should be. and that is that we leave this country a heck of a lot better off than the country we grew up in. and i think that is a pretty good goal for all of us to have as parents. stick around. "rapid response" panel is next. i'm scott cohn with your cnbc market wrap. stocks down across the board. dow lost 73. s&p fell 6. nasdaq dropped 10. number of americans filing claims for unemployment benefits fell to 340,000. average rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage hit the lowest level since june this week, slipping to 4.1%. starbucks sharing reversing a drop, edges up slightly despite

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welcome back to "the ed sho show". the government shutdown obviously has got the nation upset, on edge and it's really showing up in some polling in middle of the country like wisconsin. republican senator ron johnson, one of the most critical of president obama, his approval ratings have dropped to just 28% following his obstruction in washington. wisconsin fed up with johnson. but evidence in the polls hasn't stopped their governor from aiming for the white house. scott walker is grasping at straws for a presidential bid with a rewrite of his governing history in the state. walker's book titled "unintimidated" won't be released for weeks but the reports of inaccuracies between

between the pages are already flooding in and making the rounds. walker's signature campaign pledge was to create 250,000 jobs in 4 years is notably absent from the story because walker's goal has fallen miserably short. walker leaves out his aide's criminal conviction in the john doe trial and shamelessly twists the outcome of his ongoing legal battle with the union-busting law. and walker's most glaring cover-up is his most serious. he chronicles the protests against his union-busting policies claiming he never considered infiltrating troublemakers amongst the peaceful demonstrators in madison. this tape tells a very different story. >> what we were thinking about the crowds was planting some troublemakers. >> you know, the only problem with -- because we thought about

that. my only fear would be if there was a ruckus caused is that that could scare the public into thinking maybe the governor's got to settle to avoid all these problems. >> well, in the interview, walker thought he was speaking to david koch and revealed his true feelings about causing a dangerous situation for protestsers. scott walker isn't surprising anyone with the cover-ups in his book. the wisconsin governor is just starting his campaign of denial a little bit early. joining me on our "rapid response" panel, ruth coniff, political editor of the "progressive" magazine and john ni kprr nichols of the "nation" magazine. ruth, johnson just got elected. he's at 28%. what's going on here? >> well, johnson was elected in that landslide year. you know, 2010, and it was a backlash against obama. and he defeated russ feingold, our senator from wisconsin who, you know, may not be done being

senator from wisconsin. we'll see what happens. but ron johnson has been virtually invisible since he got to washington, d.c. he's done basically nothing. he's an ayn rand fan. he ran on a pro-business flat form. he stirred up the tea party base. i don't think many people are expecting him to be a leader in wisconsin politics for very long. >> john nichols, how does johnson recover? he's been critical, out on the talking heads about benghazi, about the irs, about obama care. how is he going to recover? i mean, it took him all of 34 months to get to 28%. >> i'm not sure he can recover, ed. if you look at polls from states across the country, he has one of the lowest approval ratings of any senator, democrat or republican. and the important thing to understand in this is that they also polled on the new senator from wisconsin, tammy baldwin. now, they have taken almost opposite positions, virtually opposite positions on every major issue, and while ron johnson is at 28%, tammy baldwin

is at 47%. so i think the takeaway from this is if ron johnson wants to recover, he should change his positions on the issues. >> so johnson has been anti-obama, scott walker also has been anti-obama care, big-time. he's up for re-election in 2014 and holds just a two-point lead against his democratic challenger, mary burke. now, i know a little bit about your state. i've spent a little bit of time in wisconsin, but i don't know mary burke. how does she get within two points in the first polling? ruth? >> i know mary burke. i've spent a lot of time about her. a lot of wisconsinites don't know her. i think what the poll numbers show not so much the strength of mary burke who has yet to get her campaign under way but just that the state is not particularly pleased with scott walker. really it's not going to get a whole lot better from here if people get to know and like her. so, you know, this is really, this is scott walker versus anybody is really what this poll is showing. >> john, what does this mean?

i mean, you've got a senator and a governor not polling very well. i mean, walker should be up, an incumbent. i mean, if he's the media darling of the state, and he, of course, is the media, also the darling of the republican party the way he's been going all over the country. is this shutdown politics having an impact in the heartland? >> there's no question the shutdown has had an impact, ed. in fact, only about 19% of wisconsinites, ruffly 1 in 5 thought it was a good idea according to the recent polling. that is a factor. i think you also have take in some of the reality is scott walker has now been governor for quite a while. he's had a relatively tame period of time after the recall election to show his stuff. and instead of creating a lot of job, instead of achieving a lot in wisconsin, he's ended upd heading all over the country. he'll be in virginia this weekend campaigning for ken cuccinelli -- >> perfect. >> -- a very right wing republican candidate for governor. >> perfect. >> i think his problem is the

wisconsinites are really getting on to him. it's notable if that poll you mentioned mary burke, the announced candidate, a democrat, got 45%. kathleen vinhaut, a state senator who hasn't said she's going to run for governor, might get into the primary, got 44%. what you see is wisconsinites are clearly looking for an alternative, and my sense is that if scott walker keeps running around the country, campaigning for president, somebody might be able to spend some time in wisconsin and beat him. >> he clearly wants to be president of the united states. wants the nomination. in his book, walker made a point of trashing romney's campaign strategy. he says that romney did a lousy job of presenting a positive vision of free-market solutions to our nation's problem in a way that is relevant to people's lives." ruth, what do you think? do you think walker has laid out solutions? >> well, maybe he presents them with a smile on his face and it sounds positive, but the reality

in wisconsin is, we lag all of our neighboring states in job creation. our economy is suffering while the economies around us are recovering. you know, we -- he's made this promise that he hasn't made good on. and he's been the most divisive governor in state history by attacking schoolteachers and public employees who are popular with the public and really stirring up a lot of anger and resentme resentment, and his promise to people has not been come with me and let me show you how i'm going to do things so things are better for you. instead what he has said is look at these public employees, they have health care benefits, they have a pension fund, and yet the strapped private sector workers who don't have this, you don't have that, so why should they have it? it's a race to the bottom. it says nobody should have good benefits. he's contracted health insurance, contracted badger care which is the low-income health care program here that our republican governor tommy thompson was very proud of. he turned away federal money for big train, high-speed rail that would have connected us to other urban centers. he refused like other republican governors to expand medicaid.

we have more people who are struggli struggling. fewer people with jobs. we have less health care. >> john, what are the numbers? and we'll give them the recall. okay? because he was saying that, you know, the economy in wisconsin was stagnant because of the recall. and then after the recall, he said things were going to pick up. have they? i don't know the numbers. what are they? >> they have not picked up particularly much. the numbers are varying, of course. wisconsin, as ruth mentioned, continues to lag behind neighboring states. that's really your test. >> yeah. >> how does wisconsin compare to a state like minnesota? >> what did he do to badger care? what did he do to -- what did he do to badger care? >> well, badger care is a really significant issue. the governor refused to buy into the expansion of medicare, and he's also been tinkering with these things in a way that actually throws tens of thousands of people off programs that are working and forces them to go find insurance in other places. this is a hugely problematic thing in wisconsin because the

governor hasn't created jobs. yet he is making access to health care harder. if you understand rural wisconsin, especially, that's a very, very tough circumstance. and i think that's one of the reasons why when people get to talk about the governor, it's not just these pairings for a gubernatorial race in 2014. the polling that's come out is also looked at him as a potential presidential candidate. and that's where you bring the federal issues in. things like obama care. things like health care. what's notable on that is that roughly 60% of wisconsinites in a pairing with walker versus hillary clinton say they would not be inclined to back scott walker for president. he gets beat very, very badly. >> it's going to be interesting. you have kasich in ohio. you have snyder in michigan. you've got scott down in until physical. all of these governors including walker have been awfully tough on wage earners and labor. it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out in the midterm if it has any effect at all in november.

the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows the public's view of the republican party has reached another all-time low in the survey with 22% seeing the gop in a positive light. 53% viewing it negatively. and then if you look inside the numbers in wisconsin, it's got to be having an effect. ruth, how else do you read it? >> i think you're absolutely right. i think another issue that you might want to bring in is walker's visit to virginia which john mentioned trying to shore up cuccinelli. remember, he was the republican governor who brought us the transv trans-vaginal ultrasound. not a popular program with women voters. walker here in wisconsin has done the same thing. closed planned parenthood clinics, rolled back accurate sex ed. very extreme anti-women's health agenda. and i think as you're looking at these female candidates who are looking at running against walker for governor, that's going to play into this election in a big way. >> well, health care, shutdown politics, and polling by the

republicans. i thought i'd check in with the middle of the country to see how things are going in wisconsin. ruth conniff, john nichols. great to have you with us tonight. still ahead, the "s" word. why republicans cling to their superstitions on spending. are you flo? yes. is this the thing you gave my husband? well, yeah, yes. the "name your price" tool. you tell us the price you want to pay, and we give you a range of options to choose from. careful, though -- that kind of power can go to your head. that explains a lot. yo, buddy! i got this. gimme one, gimme one, gimme one! the power of the "name your price" tool. only from progressive.

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welcome back to "the ed show." this is the story for the folks who take a shower after work. for the first time in five years, mark it up, folks. u.s. government has a budget deficit below $1 trillion. that's good news. republicans refuse to admit president obama was able to cut the deficit in half and he's not the big spender, so-called conservatives have accused him of being. >> president obama called out for being a big spender. >> the budget of bush, they were both big spenders but obama was way more of a bigger spender. >> who was the bigger spender under president george bush? >> hang on. he's a big spender. and that to me is the heart and soul the argument against obama. >> new numbers show there was a

comedy nation of more revenue and less spending leading to a gap of $680 billion. that's billion with a "b." it's the lowest level since the recession. now a bipartisan group of house and senate negotiators are working on writing the first overall budget blueprint since 2009. it all comes down to how they decide to generate revenue. and we know the republicans have said no new taxes and the democrats have said no, you're not getting the big three. let's sort it out. i'm joined by richard wolffe executive editor of msnbc.com and also tax special and pulitzer prize winner david johnson. what does this mean, these numbers on the heels of a huge stimulus package? what does it say? >> well, the president has cut the deficit spending more than a half which puts the lie to what you're hearing republicans say. and in 2017, his last budget

should be down to 2% of the economy from 10% that he inherited. we would, however, be better off if we had more deficit spending right now because we're short 9 million jobs and jobs reduce demand for government services and increase revenues. >> unless you have corporations invest a bunch of things -- a bunch of investment in human capital and create jobs to expand business, which is not their character. it's cut to the bottom line. richard wolffe, what does this mean to the politics of all of this? this is a great number on the heels of the president having his lowest approval rating as we've seen in one poll as of late. but this is good. this is what the republicans have been crying about all along. >> right. which makes it harder for them to accept this reality. they're saying it was the obama sequester and he caused this pain. but the sequester is what brought down this budget. the hard thing for them is

they've repeated lies so often that admitting to reality, it's like election night itself, becomes very painful. they want to say this is a budget crisis and maybe longer term when you're looking at two texas down the road, you're going to say this whole system breaks. but if you've got a president who's willing to talk about some of the changes to calculations of social security, you've got a president saying we need to make smarter cuts but also need to have some stimulus spending to get those jobs back, then you've got to have someone o on the other side that's willing to face up to what the real numbers are. right now the republican party don't. >> federal employees are going to get their first raise in three years coming up in january. of course the gop play makers, they want them to pay more toward their benefits. why don't republicans realize what a bad idea that actually is. that these federal workers who president obama was praising after the shutdown, you know,

they've really bit the bullet pretty hard here. and is it imperative that they contribute more to their retirement? >> well, first of all the only source of money for the retirement is from the workers. what they're really talking about here, ed, is reducing the cash wages that federal workers get and converting more of their total compensation into pension money. and that's a reasonable issue to discuss, but for three years to have no pay raises, to slash the staffs tremendously. i've been talking to irs lawyer who is tell me they are being required now to put in 60 and 80-hour work weeks because of the demands that are placed on them by the system, and that's not going to be sustainable. that's really at the core problem. government is essential to a well-running economy. and the big businesses in america and many small businesses know that and so starving the government is a dumb policy. >> and quickly, the word is no

grand bargain in these budget talks. what are your expectations? >> we're going to go through one crisis after another because we have a group of people who speak as authoritatively about economics but clearly have no idea what they're talking about. >> richard wolfe, how can that not hurt the republicans? every poll shows the americans want the big three protected. we're not going to get more revenue, it sounds like. >> everything that reminds voters of the shutdown and that whole mess is bad for republicans. they've set this up. we're going to be talking about these same issues for many months. i think it is a bad prospect for republicans every time we talk about the budget right now. >> is he going to do more on health care? >> he needs to do much more. he needs to explain what he's done on the budget, on health care. sell that still today. >> richard wolffe and david johnston, thank you so much. that's "the ed show." "politicsnation" with