visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. great. this is the last thing i need.) seriously? let's take this puppy over to midas and get you some of the good 'ol midas touch. hey you know what? i'll drive! i really didn't think this through. brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling) good morning, i'm chris jansing and there is word this morning that healthcare.gov may not be fixed by the end of november. a report in "the washington post" highlights software problems, capacity issues and says the main contractor, cgi, has only fixed six of every ten defects. the administration is pushing back insisting people are working 24/7 to get things fixed. right now two different congressional committees are holding hearings to figure out what's going on and we're

expected to hear testimony from chief technology officer todd park. by some reports he's been sleeping on the floor of his office. to make matters worse, president clinton is giving president obama some unsolicited advice, to change the law in order to keep his promise. if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. >> i personally believe even if it takes a change in the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people and let them keep what they got. >> no surprise republicans are jumping on that statement and now even key democratic senator dianne feinstein has signed on to legislation to repair that broken promise. co-sponsoring a bill with senator mary landrieu, another democrat, to let people keep their insurance plans. and at that hearing right now, the house oversight committee, we just heard from the ranking democratic member, elijah cummings, who said nobody in this room, nobody in this country believes republicans want to fix this website.

i want to bring in our company, politico's senior political reporter alexander burns, usa today's washington bureau chief, susan page. good morning. >> good morning. >> let's start with the website problems, alex. republicans were adamant that todd park, the chief technology officer, testify today. they went so far as to issue a subpoena. we've seen a handful of these hearings already. darrell issa made a name for himself holding hearings on the irs, benghazi, fast and furious, is this about getting answers or is it as we just heard from e elijah cummings not anything to do with the fixing the website. >> i think it's kind of all of the above. that there clearly are legitimate questions to be asked about how this website rollout got botched so badly. at the same time it clearly is a huge political benefit to republicans in general and darrell issa personally to be asking these questions. you know, what you hear from the democratic side right now is a lot of wait and see. they do want to find out whether the white house can get

healthcare.gov working by the end of the month and if at that point suddenly people will start to find it easier to enroll in insurance via these exchanges, democrats are still pretty confident that the public can be won over to this law. if we hit that november 30th deadline. and there are still these major problems and major enrollment and accessibility issues, republicans will have even more of a field day and they won't have to try as hard as they're trying now. >> and the pointing is nobody is suggesting this is going to be 100% fixed. there will be glitches that go on for a while but let's say healthcare.gov gets largely fixed and is working well by the deadline of the does that mean the republicans stop? and what it it isn't fixed, what if it's clear there are still significant problems, then what? >> this is a real deadline, chris. the president has promised for the vast majority of users the website will be working as it's supposed to be by the end of this month. if he misses that deadline, i think the bipartisan pressure to

delay the penalties, to make other changes in the law to try to accommodate people who have had this frustrating experience, that's going to be undeniable and be impossible for him to avoid doing that even though the white house knows that the process of trying to change the law at this point is really difficult and you risk undermining the fundamentals of the law if you start to do things that, for instance, help people who have lost plans that they like. >> i want to go back and talk about bill clinton's comments, that the president should change the law, finding a way to keep his promise. let me play the reaction from jay carney yesterday. >> i think as you saw the president say in an interview with nbc last week, the answer is yes, the president has tasked his team with looking at a range of options, as he said, to make sure that nobody is put in a position where their plans have been cancelled and they can't afford a better plan, even though they'd like to have a better plan. >> yeah, and so when the white house hears comments from bill clinton and see what's going on

with senators like dianne feinstein, alex, what's the mood, what's the reaction in the white house? >> i thought it was interesting, chris, to hear the way jay carney moved the goal posts there a little bit. bill clinton saying the president has to keep his promise, if you like your plan, regardless of what it is, that you can keep your plan. what the white house is saying they want to make sure nobody has a plan cancelled and can't afford a better plan. that's the whole pointing of this law to begin with but that's not how the president communicated it to people. it was this is going to be an uninvasive procedure and now you have the president trying to explain after the fact, look, we're going to make sure you have options. that's not what we hear out of democratic senators right now. you mentioned dianne feinstein, also mary landrieu, who's up for re-election. >> john boehner jumped on this. quote, i applaud president clinton for joining the bipartisan call for president obama to keep his promise to the american people. these comments signify a growing

recognition that americans were misled when they were promised that they could keep their coverage under president obama's health care law. are the odds moving against the white house? it did seem like at least a lot of democrats felt pretty confident a month ago, susan, even with all the problems that were happening that they could get this fixed. is that sort of feeling changing now? >> i think so. i think that one of the big advantages the white house has had for a long time on the affordable care act is pretty much democratic unity standing behind it. that has definitely eroded, especially among those senators who are up for re-election next year. we had that letter that the senator from new hampshire authored to sebelius urging for some delays in the implementation. that makes this a much harder path for the white house to navigate, because democrats are starting to look out for their own interests in next year's midterms, not necessarily the interests for barack obama and the white house. >> i want to bring in eleanor holmes norton, she just stepped out of that oversight and government reform committee hearing to talk to us.

good morning. >> good morning. >> i'm sure you've been listening to the conversation. is it your sense that democratic unity on obama care is weakening? >> not really and not yet. and that's because we know, for example, that in the first couple of months in massachusetts, and that's really the only precedent we had, there were only a couple of thousand people who signed up. we also know about the very troubled rollout of the prescription drug site. we do know that fixes could be made. one thing we also know is that if you put a bill on the floor, and that's what i challenge speaker boehner to do, put a bill on the floor to fix it and see if that doesn't devolve into another appeal. remember where they began. first they undermined it. then they tried to repeal it.

now they're trying to sabotage it. one of the problems we're having now is that they're having to take money from other parts of hhs because the appropriators have not in fact funded what needed to be done with this site. one of the changes i think that's going to have to happen is that the public is not going to action i believe, be forced to pay a fine if the website isn't up and if the whole thing isn't running more smoothly. i don't think anybody wants to put this over on the public. but nobody for one second believes that my committee, which is now hearing this led by my good friend darrell issa wants to fix anything. otherwise they would not have snatched the i.t. people off of this 24/7 ritual they have been in, which is equivalent to fixing a plane while it's flying

and insisted and indeed subpoenaed them to come and testify before us. >> even if, congresswoman, the reason for this hearing is not to fix it, if that's not what darrell issa is talking about, is there a problem that the president made a deadline that now it seems he may not be able to keep, and that's different from what you're saying, for example, about the massachusetts rollout. because he did draw a line in the sand himself and say this is going to be up and working. here's the date. and now it looks like they're not going to be able to make that date. >> yeah, and he's apologized for that and he should have himself read the fine print and warned people that, look, this is, after all, i.t. we're talking about and you've seen the problems that we always have on even the best of them, so expect some glitches. the problem that the administration made is it did not warn people that because of the absence of the funding that was necessary, because i.t.

particularly involving so important and large an undertaking always have problems, because they didn't talk about massachusetts and the problems they had in the beginning, because they didn't talk about the massive problems that we had with the prescription drug rollout. everybody expected perfection and they didn't do anything to quell that expectation. >> you know where we found ourselves now, so now we've seen these bills proposed to allow people to keep the insurance they have or delay the health care penalty fee or to extend open enrollment. ideas that in several cases are coming from the democratic side, as we've said. where do you stand on those proposals? >> let me tell you what i think the problem is and i can understand and we can pick pieces of this, if you fix x, y and z then wouldn't it be fine. this is a knee bone connected to the thigh bone connected to the foot bone problem. that is to say this thing is all of a piece. and if you unwind it by picking out a piece, then the whole

thing could collapse right in your lap. for example, the insurers will surely be -- will surely be on the hook if they take out this piece or that piece because they have laid out a lot of funds and the expectations that people will be on. people are going to have to find a way to fix this thing while it's running. nobody has had to do that with a site of this size and this dimension. they're finding it, the impatience would be there even if the president hadn't promised because that's always from the public and that's what makes people fix them and make them better. >> eleanor holmes norton, thank you for stepping out of the hearing and being on with us. >> of course. >> susan, she sounds confident, even though we know some democrats are getting nervous and now republicans in the hill are suggesting that bill clinton's comments in fact are a way to distance his wife from what's going on. were they that calculated? >> well, first of all, let's not

miss the news that you got from eleanor holmes norton. no one has been more supportive of the administration on this than she has been, and yet she said there is no appetite to impose those penalties on americans for not having insurance if the website doesn't get fixed fast. you know, that is one of those key provisions that if there's not a willingness to impose those penalties, then why will young healthy people sign up? if they don't sign up, how does the system then become financially feasible? so i thought that was a significant point that she made in your interview. as to the clinton calculation, any time john boehner is praising bill clinton for what he said about barack obama, you know that is bad news for barack obama. and it's hard for me -- that doesn't seem like a mischievous interview to me, it sounded like he got asked a question and answered it the way he thought. the interview was a whole was quite supportive of president obama and the affordable care act. >> susan makes a good pointing picking up on what eleanor

holmes norton had to say that in the end this is an economic issue. for this to work there have to be enough young people enrolled. >> that's right. and i think the congresswoman made -- the other point that she made goes to the difficulty for democrats of just delaying the politically unpopular or problematic parts of this law. if you start saying to people, okay, we won't do the individual mandate this year. okay, you can keep your plans for 2013. for this whole machine to function it does require a certain volume of people to sound up for new plans under a new set of regulations. if just the scale of this thing is going to drive down costs in the way it's supposed to. if democrats can't clear that threshold, then they're going to have a hard time finding the kind of case studies that they want for 2014, 2016 and beyond of people who say, look, i got better insurance, i got the same insurance for less money, that kind of thing, chris. >> alex burns, susan page, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and we'll be right back. my customers can shop around--

see who does good work and compare costs. it doesn't usually work that way with health care. but with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and estimates for how much i'll pay. that helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. i don't like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

another punch for the people in the philippines. much-needed help is now delayed by another storm. weather has the uss george washington four to five days from arriving now. there is some access to filtered water, but not nearly enough for 600,000 people without homes. we're also learning that among the dead are at least two americans. the official death toll is now 2,344. the philippine president says the death toll could be much lower than the 10,000 first thought. nbc's ian williams is in manila with the latest for us. ian, what can you tell us? >> reporter: good morning, chris. well, a hungry and desperate group of survivors today stormed the government rice warehouse. a local official describing it

more as an act of self preservation than looting. this is near a town which has been devastated by the typhoon. if you look at satellite images, chilling satellite images, they show the town of 220,000 people before the typhoon and afterwards with not a great deal remaining. interestingly the mayor of that town says that the number of people who died was probably magnified because many had come into town from outlying areas because they thought it would be safer, because they thought they'd find shelter. he said they frequently do this during storms. but unfortunately, this wasn't just a storm, it was a tsunami. and most of the deaths happened when that water, that wall of water swept in and took out so many of the houses. now, today, still promise of much aid, but the aid still trickling into these areas. even basic supplies of drinking water, food, shelter, medicine, remains scarce. the government is on the

defensive, saying that in fact they are doing their best, that they are trying to get aid in, but they face huge obstacles still with debris and devastation, chris. >> ian williams live for us in manila. thank you. wrap your head around this. each of the two nominees for president in 2016 may need to raise $2 billion each. a few strategists and bundlers are using that number. and even before any candidates have even declared, the ads of begun. >> one day launch a woman into the white house. although we weren't able to shatter that higher, hardest glass ceiling last time, this time to you, it's got about 18 million cracks in it. >> that's from the ready for hill taary super pac which met its first finance strategy session. don democratic thinkers were on

hand for an all-day session. i want to bring in two people inside those meetings. former clinton adviser tracy supple. mitch stewart was also a senior adviser and first director of the obama for america campaign. good to see both of you, thank you. >> good morning. >> thank you, chris. >> take us inside that room, tracy, as much as you can. what are the big takeaways. >> the takeaways are there is significant momentum with new donors, old donors, familiar faces, new faces. 1.1 million people have already participated in the facebook effort at ready for hillary.com and those numbers are going up very dramatically every day. so what happened yesterday was a group of people coming together to talk about what to do, how to get more people, how to continue this momentum and really seize this moment early on as a significant foundation to create this movement of people who are in fact, quite simply, ready for hillary. >> we're going to get back to this conversation but we need to

go live to this hearing. todd park, chief u.s. technology officer, talking about his role in the rollout of obama care. >> the power of technology can be harnessed to improve health care, aid disaster relief, fight human trafficking and more. in this work i try to bring the sensibilities of the private sector tech entrepreneur that i've been for most of my professional life. as you know, october 1st was the launch of the new healthcare.gov and the health insurance marketplace where people without health insurance, including those who cannot afford health insurance and those who are not part of a group plan can go to get affordable coverage. unfortunately, the experience on healthcare.gov has been highly frustrating for many americans. these problems are unacceptable. we know there is real interest from the american public in having easy access to the new, affordable choices in the health insurance marketplace. i believe that as public serv t servants we have a shared goal, to deliver to americans the

service they deserve and expect. and sense the beginning of october, i have shifted into working full-time on the team that is working around the clock to fix healthcare.gov and bring it to the place it should be. the team is making progress. the website is getting better each week as we work to improve its performance, its stability and its functionality. as a result, more and more individuals are successfully creating accounts, logging in and moving on to apply for coverage and shop for plans. we have much work still to do but are making progress at a growing rate. i'll be happy to try to answer any questions you may have about healthcare.gov and the progress the team is making, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> there was a fight over getting todd park in front of this committee. the republicans wanted him there. the white house had argued that frankly he played little role in developing healthcare.gov and his time was better spent trying to fix it. we've already talk about the fact that he's been known to

sleep on the floor in his office, he's been working so hard to get that fixed. we'll continue to listen in but let's get back to our folks from ready for hillary. we have been talking to tracy and mitch, both who were part of that big meeting. we just heard tracy say, mitch, about how much enthusiasm you folks are saying. you helped lead president obama's wildly successful grassroots ground game in 2008. how do you turn what you see as enthusiasm into that, into this grassroots support? >> sure. and, you know, one of the things that we did learn during the last campaign, frankly both in 2008 and 2012 is if you want to win a winning, maurd eaodern, 2 century campaign, you have to have the grassroots infrastructure to do that. the most important thing is time. we've been given this incredible gift, the enthusiasm that tracy was referring to earlier that we're seeing across the country allows us to before any other

potential candidate to go out there and build that foundation, to build that infrastructure so that if secretary clinton were to decide to run, there would be the organization there to support that national candidacy. >> but you could make the argument, tracy, that time can be both your friend and your enemy and obviously you've got time to prepare, time to lay that groundwork. time can also mean enthusiasm can turn to fatigue and there have already been questions about whether a fresh face on the republican side, maybe even a fresh face within the democratic party could look better in the way that it did when hillary clinton ran against barack obama. are you convinced that time is your friend? >> i am. and especially after yesterday's events where we heard from so many people who talked about that really head on, that there's no illusions that this isn't november of 2013, but what that means is that there's a way to create a tempo that's appropriate for where we are right now, to have that tempo be accelerating at the right times. >> well, part of that is the

fund-raising. do you agree with that $2 billion per candidate number? >> i can only imagine what the future holds, thanks to the rulings citizens united and what this new world brings us, but hearing you talk about that, it does make me think that it's a pretty good argument to not have a primary challenge for the democrats. maybe we'll be that lucky. >> maybe that will be the argument we hear from the folks from ready for hillary. there's obviously money involved in this, mitch. on the other hand rand paul, also considered a possible 2016 candidate, has been awfully critical of hillary clinton, especially over benghazi. and i want to play something he said just yesterday at the citadel. >> her failure to provide our ambassador and his mission with adequate security should be preclude hillary clinton from ever holding high office again. >> one of the things about this time and one of the things about being hillary clinton so exposed is that everyone knows where the gop sees her weaknesses are.

it's not like she's a fresh face. are the story boards already made for the ads to counter these gop attacks? >> our focus right now and our mission is solely on the grassroots and building that infrastructure that i referred to earlier. but i think you are going to see republicans bring out tired and old lines of attack on hillary clinton. and, you know, i don't think we should view that as a sign of weakness on a potential candidacy. i actually think that's a sign of tremendous strength. the fact that three years before the election you have republicans across the country petrified of a potential candidacy that they're taking as many shots as that potential candidacy right now as they can. and i think the american public will see through that, as they have either with senator rand paul or some of the other critiques that we've heard from other republicans, you know, using age potentially as a negative. i i think they're just tired attack lines that won't resonate

with the american public. >> mitch, tracy, thanks so much. it's good to have both of you on the program. >> thank you, chris. >> we'll be right back. time for the "your business" entrepreneurs of the week. rob navarino and brook redpath own stores in great barrington, massachusetts. they and other small business owners in town ar transacting customers for small business saturday with factory rep demos, food tastings and discounts. for more on getting customers to shop small, watch "your business" sunday morning at 7:30 on msnbc. there are cameras,, police, guards...ds us. but who looks after us online, where we spend more than 200 billion dollars a year. american express can help protect you. with intelligent security that learns your spending patterns, and can alert you instantly to an unusual charge. so you can be a member of a more secure world. this is what membership is.

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we're keeping a close eye on this house hearing looking into the rocky rollout of the obama care website. darrell issa with some tough questions for white house chief technology officer todd park. he acknowledged that the problems welcome back unacceptable but also said that the website is getting better every day. we've seen the partisan battle lines drawn here already. issa blasting the rollout, calling it a monumental mistake to go live. also from the ranking member, elijah cummings, saying republicans have done nothing but try to derail obama care from the start. we're keeping our ear to this hearing and will keep you posted. seldom if ever have politicians faced a more dramatically changing social and demographic landscape. the electorate is quickly getting more diverse. more hispanics, more unmarried

voters, more support for issues like gay marriage. all of it posing a particular challenge for republicans. so yesterday rnc chairman reince priebus met with african-american business and community leaders in detroit. he announced the new michigan director of african-american engagement as well as creating the michigan black advisory council. some party leaders have been encouraged by chris christie's landslide re-election in new jersey last week. it included 51% of the latino vote. i want to bring in democratic strategist basil snickel and susan del percio. good to see both of you. one of the things that reince priebus said before he went into the closed door hearing was this, you have to be in the community for a long period of time in order to understand and know who you want to turn out to vote. chris christie said something essentially similar in his victory speech saying republicans need to show up. they need to talk to not the people who are already in their choir, but to preach to the people who aren't.

is he smart about that? >> he is actually. if you go back to election night, one of the biggest takeaways was barbara buono blasting members of her own party for cutting these deals with chris christie. chris christie is a candidate that did go into those communities, that did cut those deals, that did work it out with minority leaders throughout the state. that's what you have to do, you have to show up. >> but that was new jersey and there was some controversy in the richard cohen column that he argued the tea party could make it for him not getting out of iowa. people with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of new york. a white man married to a black woman and with two biracial children. this represents the cultural changes that have enveloped parts but not all of america, to cultural conservatives this doesn't look like their country at all. which raises the question if you accept that, susan, is it possible to reproduce on a national scale what chris

christie did in new jersey? >> well, i don't accept what he said in that column at all. i don't believe in that gag reflex comment. >> you don't think that exists in america? >> that was the wrong thing to say the way he did it. now, what chris christie did and what the republicans nationally need to learn is that he did in fact show up. reince priebus was in new york and brooklyn in march of this year to do his reflection tour, to speak to republicans, to speak to people in the community of color, minorities. and you know what they have done since then? nothing. you cannot just stop by in october and say we're here for you. you have to consistently show up, and that's the difference between what chris christie is doing and a lot of other committees, whether at the national level or state level are doing, whether it be in new york, california, throughout this country. you have to show up. >> well, reince priebus has argued that he sort of relooking at the way the rnc in particular spends its money. one of the things he's done is hired hispanic field directors in seven states, california,

florida, new jersey, new mexico, pennsylvania, texas and virginia. george w. bush got 44% of the vote in his second run for office. is that potentially trouble for democrats if the republicans can find someone who can work the community the way he did. >> it's potentially troublesome but i don't know if it's going to happen any time soon. as long as we can point to republicans, as long as minority communities can point to republicans and talk about the abrogating of voting rights, of ballot access, of being able to not just go to college and have access to college but also complete college, there is so much discussion now that the republican party or the blame put on republicans for abrogating those opportunities for communities of color that there has to be a trust built in the relationship, and that takes time. i don't know if that's the groundwork really being laid for that right now. >> and you can't just do it with a press release and nice photo op with seven leaders, hispanic leaders going into these states.

that's 2345not going to do the . they can make end runs on immigration, education. there's a lot of common ground where they could really show the communities that they are there with them, they share a common value. but until republicans start waking up to the fact that they need to do it at a broad level and make the time commitment, not just a financial commitment in september and october, we will always be behind the eight ball when it comes to that. >> and i think it's worth just mentioning that when we did the hypothetical matchup in our nbc poll between hillary clinton and chris christie, she's ahead by 79 points with african-americans, 11 points with latinos. so that shows you some of the problems that exist nationally that he did not have in new jersey. thanks to both of you, great conversation. we'll talk again. checking the news feed this morning, hawaii's governor expected to sign a bill just hours from now to legalize same-sex marriage as we talk about some of these changes.

the state senate passing that bill by a vote of 19-4 last night. the law will allow same-sex couples living in hawaii and tourists to marry there, starting on december 2nd. new guidelines on preventing heart attacks and strokes could double the number of adults who have to take cholesterol-lowering drugs known as statins. that includes lipitor, crestor. doctors prescribe them to a wider range of paktients to drie down their odds of a heart attack or stroke. a missouri man who spent ten years in prison for a crime he didn't commit is a free man this morning. he was accused of murdering a newspaper editor but got out yesterday after his accuser recanted. he was just 17 years old when he went to prison and today says his focus is on restarting his life. >> i'm just going to continue to work hard an take advantage of every opportunity that comes my way. if there's not a whole lot of opportunities, i'm going to make

a few. i've got an amazing support system, amazing family. >> and ryan ferguson said his first meal he wanted to be from dairy queen. he was 17 when he went in. seven superrich bidders propelled a set of paintings to record highs. they went for an astonishing 142.4 million dollars at christey's. that makes them the most expensive artwork ever sold at auction. a gallery in new york city bought them after six minutes of what was described as fierce bidding. it's now up to a judge to clear the way for an airline mega merger. cnbc's mandy drury is here with what's moving your money, talking about american airlines and u.s. airways. they have reached a deal to create the world's biggest airline. >> there's still some questions about what it means for us, the air traveler. we don't know whether it's going to be a huge cost to us, but what we do know is that there is some question over what happens to small towns that could lose service. the two airlines did agree to give up dozens of gates in new

york and washington to make this merger happen. that does allow for a bigger foot hold for low cost acarrier at key u.s. airports could could be good. it could mean more competition on routes. we always think more competition, cheaper fares, but apparently that's not going to necessarily be the case. the industry was under a lot of financial strain for some time, is doing much better now, and you know what, they're probably not willing to give that up. so the hope is at least with the improved finances of the new merged airline, we're hoping at the very least if not cheaper flights, at least maybe better customer service. >> all right. next question, and i apologize for the wording of it. the bean counters at starbucks have to be reeling this morning. >> good pun, good pun, chris. >> i didn't write it. >> starbucks has to pay kraft foods. >> i'm not even taking credit for it. >> come on, take credit. yes, starbucks does have to pay kraft foods $2.23 billion in damages plus $527 million in

interest and legal fees after an early termination by starbucks of those two companies' grocery deal. it's an early termination by at least three years. as a little background here, chris, they spun off kraft foods as an independent company back in 2012 so under an agreement between those two companies, they will receive all those proceeds from the starbucks/kraft dispute and i believe starbucks cannot appeal. the payment was larger than what wall street was expecting but roughly in line with the nearly $3 billion kraft had sought. "time" magazine out with its list of the 16 most influential teens of 2013. part of it. 16-year-old pakistani education activist malala youseffsai. missy franklin, here she is at

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dolphins offensive lineman jonathan martin and team owner stephen ross has been called off. they were expected to talk privately about martin's taking a break and allegations that he was being bullied. but ted wells, who was appointed to investigate, say they want to talk to martin first, before he huddles with ross. we're also waiting for a video from martin himself, expected sometime this week. meanwhile, suspended player ritchie ychie incognito returne south florida but had no comment as he headed out of the miami airport. while the story drags out, so do the secrets from inside nfl locker rooms everywhere. joining me is retired nfl linebackerer and nfl analyst for cbs, bart scott. nate jackson is a former nfl player and author of "slow getting up, a story of nfl survival from the bottom of the pile." good to see both of you, good morning. as we wait to see what the nfl finds out from its investigation, i know you've had your own dealings with richie incognito, in fact you called him a fake tough guy, one of the

dirtiest if not the dirtiest players around. what were your encounters with him like? >> well, it was tough, you know, because out there it's a brotherhood. we were out there competing against each other but at the end of the day we're all part of the same elite fraternity and there's certain things that are not allowed when playing against each other. eventually with free agency, eventually those guys can become your teammates. some of the things that he did i felt like wasn't in the best interests of the game or the fraternity of being a professional football player. >> we only know what we've heard so far. we haven't really heard both sides of the story fully, although we have incognito saying that basically he's a good guy, he's not a racist. but what's your take on what happened here? >> i think we have a lack of communication. you know, there's so many great things about the locker room and experiences, and the things i take from the game is the locker room experiences that i've had. you remember some of your best games, but it's a place of fellowship, of brotherhood. >> and is part of that

brotherhood bullying? >> no, not bullying at all. we always have this thing, break you down to build you up. it seems like jonathan martin was broken down but never built back up. it's supposed to be a family atmosphere. when the locker room is at its best, it's about fellowship, brotherhood, experiences. the great thing about a locker room is it immediately breaks away all stereotype that say we may or may not have about each other. you know, you come in and there's guys from different ethnic backgrounds, social classes, all coming together for one common goal of the and we learn so much about each other, about how we grow up, the areas in which we live in. and i think that's the part of the locker room that i want people to realize. >> now, you spent seven years of your life inside an nfl locker room. i know you've said you're not surprised by the hazing that's described in martin's case, but as a journalist who sees attitudes evolve story by story, i have to wonder is this one of

those cases where years ago, it was okay to be the bully on the playground and somebody would say toughen up and then there were anti-bullying campaigns. it wasn't okay in grade school, it wasn't okay in college. do we need to get to that point inside an nfl locker room? >> well, i think we have to establish what bullying is, what hazing is. it's a different world in there. it's a different bubble. like bart was saying, it doesn't matter what background you're from, ethnicity, political views, religious views, socioeconomic backgrounds, you ending up in the same locker room. it's an all male environment. you're doing hand-to-hand environment on a daily basis out on the field so some crude ways of communicating take place. when we look at it from the outside -- >> and that's okay because you're a bunch of guys and one man's -- but isn't one man's brotherhood another man's bullying? >> possibly, but i know jonathan martin is not the first half black man to play in the nfl, he's not the first guy from stanford or the first guy with

ivy league parents. he is the first guy to go to the media and the media is up in arms but i think it's a case of the reality seeping into the fairy tale story of what football is or how it's sold. all these men in the locker room tease each other on a daily basis. it's not malicious, it's a joke. obviously it went too far with jonathan martin. but i think it's dangerous when we drag these guys' names through the mud and paint this as an anomaly when the reality is that the locker room is a crude place. >> well, i've had other folks on about this and some of them say it depends on what locker room it is. and i'm curious about your take on that, bart, but also what you've said on espn radio this week, which was that other veterans in the dolphins bench should have stepped up and realized that this had gotten maybe out of control. >> the locker room is a self-governing environment. you know, you have to have strong veteran leadership. it's the only place of sanctuary for the players. whenever a coach came into there, we would always sound the alarm, scream, tell them to get out because it was the only

place we had in which we can be ourself, let our hair down, venting out about the coaches, where we are in our situations. we gamble in there, we play, we have fun, we create games. we spend so much time with each other. i spend more time with my teammates than i ever did with my family members. and you take on a family-type environment but everybody is not going to get along with each other. you don't have to get along with everybody. i'm sure here at msnbc, some people that you hang out -- >> kumbaya, we love each other. >> exactly. well, in the nfl locker room, that's not what it's about. but you have to respect the man next to you because at the end of the day your day, his job are intertwined. >> listening to both of you and i think there may be a little disconnect but i understand that you're talking about a culture that's different. i guess when i hear the nfl and the steps that they're trying to take and the leadership of the dolphins and the steps they're trying to take and those who have been critical of this, i guess i really do have to wonder if, nate, there is some element

of public relations in this. is the nfl really worried about what's going on in the locker room? are they worried that some fans, women in particular, mothers in particular are not going to like this? >> yeah, i think there is some public relations involved in everything the nfl does these days. there's a lot of things coming out, not only about the locker room stuff, but about the health of the players, about former players' struggles, about the head injuries. and the nfl is scrambling to improve their image on all fronts. and so when a negative story comes out, the nfl is on top of it with press releases and things of that nature. and i think we should take it all with a grain of salt and understand that they have a bottom line that they're protecting and they're worried about negative press. >> nate jackson, bart scott, we're waiting for that video to come out from yincognito. again, thanks for taking the time to talk to us. we'll be right back. [ laughter ]

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to politics now. senator rand paul gave his first big speech since his plagiarism scandal speaking at the citadel and the remarks appeared to be original but his staff added 33 footnotes to the version they released to the public. sarah palin is on all the networks plugging her book with christmas and apparently taking shots at the pope. >> he's had some statements that to me sound kind of liberal has taken me aback, has kind of surprised me. >> the united states may no longer be able to clean tina turner as one of its own. the singer relinquishing her u.s. citizenship in july. the 74-year-old married her long-time boyfriend and has taken the oath of swiss nationality. "proud mary" has no plans to live in the u.s. either. she has lived in switzerland for decades. former president george w. bush will be a guest on "the tonight show" next week. apparently he wanted to chat with jay leno before leno retires. and toronto mayor rob ford,

unseemingly fazed about the fact the city council is voting to oust him spent time autographing his own bobblehead dolls. the limited edition quickly sold at $20 apiece, proceeds for charity, but already they're fetching hundreds on ebay. one has a buy it now price of $600. bids topping $300 for a doll in the likeness of the mayor who admitted he smoked crack. that wraps up this hour of "jansing & co." i'm chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next. >> you come to me on that? >> bobblehead. i want a thomas roberts -- >> you want a tommy robbie bobblehead doll. >> a what? >> tommy robbie. get it? >> got it. >> anyway, that bobblehead, it's missing some girth. it's a skinny bobblehead doll, don't you think? >> you know what, you make a good point. >> crack is whack, chris. crack is whack. >> so the agenda next hour,

house republicans holding hearings on the troubled rollout of healthcare.gov. democrats ask if republicans want to fix this site, why are they hauling the people in charge of just that to capitol hill for hearings. and remember those brosurance ads? now the creators are out with new girlsurance ads that are fetching some eyeballs. plus rand paul's new footnotes fail. the senator sticking his foot in his mouth again. our agenda panel will weigh in on that. stick around. i'm meteorologist bill karins. after a very frigid morning, temperatures are slow to rise. an arctic blast that made it all the way to the deep south encompasses much of the eastern half of the country. enjoy your afternoon.

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such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back, with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. the idea that the federal government should come in and create a one size fits all for the entire country never was going to work, and we talked about it during the debate on obama care and before the vote ever even happened. >> house speaker john boehner turning the knife, but he's not the one who put it there. we lead off with this developing news from the hill. hi, everybody, good morning. i'm thomas roberts.