amazing. that's not the best new thing in the world. after getting all the living presidents to participate, sitting members of congress, here is the headline about this project posted on website of abc news. look at this. this is so great. look at the headline. >> taylor swift and all five living presidents recite gettysburg address. repeating our top story -- taylor swift and all five living presidents recite the gettysburg address. nothing against taylor swift. i will let you finish. but that headline is the best new thing in the world today. abc news you win you. win, you win. now time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. [ laugher ] >> the first enrollment numbers are in for the affordable care act. washington now has to fight over what the numbers mean. >> nobody in this room. nobody in this country believes that republicans want to fix the website. >> another big hearing on capitol hill. >> congressional hearings with the health care rollout.

>> we have seen a handful of hearings. >> republicans did most of the grilling obviously. >> you have the fancy title. >> you are the chief information officer. >> that wasn't a small mistake. >> this was a monumental mistake. >> the chairman attacked obama administration's rollout. >> daryl issa wasted no time. >> let's say he hasn't been happy with the response. >> will what happens next? >> we now have breaking news. >> the long awaited enrollment numbers. >> how many peeople have enrolled. >> put some of them up on the screen for you. >> just over 106,000 signed up. >> 10,0does that mean the republicans stop? >> please don't answer yet. >> let fight begin. >> we have got to get the website up and running. >> we believe site will be working smoothly by the end of the month. >> democrats are confident. >> nobody in this room. nobody in this country.

>> this is not about politics. >> this is barbaric politics. there is a brewing revolt tonight among democrats in the house of representatives according to at least one unnamed democrat who told nbc news today -- there is a brewing revolt among house democrats, the white house never has our back on these types of things. they have no plan b, no apparent fix. they're clueless on top of that. bill clinton sure as hell didn't make it any easier for this white house with his comments. they need to figure something out by friday. fast. on friday, house republicans will introduce a bill that will allow people who have had their insurance plans canceled to keep those plans if they still exist for one year. even if the coverage is below the required minimum under the affordable care act. that will surely attract some democratic votes if president

obama and democrats don't offer an alternative plan for those democrats to the support. earlier today, health and human services secretary, kathleen sebelius told reporters since october 1, 106,185 people have enrolled. 79,000 enrolled through state exchanges. and about 27,000 enrolled through that federal exchange. that has the had so many problems. that is about 21% of what the obama administration had expected to enroll before the exchanges were open. another 975,407 people have completed applications for insurance but have not yet made the purchase. many of those people are shopping for family plans. and the administration estimates that is coverage for 1.5 million people.

an additional $396,261 people have signed up for medicaid. secretary sebelius insisted today enrollment under the affordable care act is comparable to early days of enrollment under the health care reform law that massachusetts enacted in 2006 under governor romney. >> we can reasonably expect the numbers will grow substantially over the next five months as they did in massachusetts which enrolled only .3%. or 123 people in its first month. we know from experience in the bay state that people tend to research and kid theconsider th options talk things over with their families before making a purchase. >> joining me now, from "the washington post," and professor of economics at mit who worked on the massachusetts health care reform law and -- the affordable care act. okay, professor, it is up to you to tell us how -- the affordable

care act is doing, compared to the early days of the massachusetts law. >> the big issue, it is too early to make a strong conclusion. the bottom line is people don't sign up until they have to. >> we are doing better than massachusetts. as secretary sebelius said .3% in massachusetts. 1 1/2% of the federal level. goal of 7 million. that is not a relevant comparison. relevant comparison happen in march. we need new focus on not the week to week and day-to-day, to date. >> professor, quickly, what do you make of roughly all most four times people enrolling in medicaid than -- than purchasing with or without subsidies, the approximately sees from the -- policies from exchanges.

>> we had a program that was free, got higher enrollment than the program people had to pay. people soon up for what its free first. once again as the deadline approaches for the mandate. people rush in, healthy people coming in towards the march 31st date. >> e.j.dion, democrats listening to the professor, professor gruber here tonight, democrats in the house are not staying calm about this. >> i thought finally, republicans in disarray had replaced the old democrats in disarray stories. but it looks like we're become to the old story. the president did say what the president said. and there was no, there were no kind of qualifications. he said, period, at the end of then sense t when you do health care reform. you change insurance markets. there was going to be cost shifting here. and some policies, both junk

approximately see policies that weren't worth much would go off the market. you have people with premium increases. the question now is how can you fix this, or can you fix this, without discombobulating the health care market. it would be better if democrats were calm. it would be better if they waited to see how some of the things shake out. andment worst change would be to make a quick change in panic that might wreck the whole thing. then i can say that -- because i am not on the ballot next year. and a lot, all of these guys are. and women are on the ballot next year. so they're very nervous. >> well, democrats met with administration officials today. house democrats met with officials to talk about it. reme patrick murphy, democrat, schashgtized the meeting. voices were raised. a little frustration. people focusseded on making sure we get this right. this morning's meeting was frustrating. many are upset with rollout of the affordable care act.

in light of the vote we will have on friday, there is still some learning to do, on what exactly that entails. but the white house says that they're going to come up with some sorment t of alternative tk about and a lot of us are anxious to see that. jonathan gruber, the president said this last week in his interview, with chuck todd here on next. that he was looking at some kind of fix to the law. this was before bill clinton made the same kind of suggestion. but, democrats in the house have no idea what that its. what would you suggest to the president and the democrats as a fix for this. >> i would first of all, say there is no easy fix. because this isn't a huge problem. we are talking about a small slice of americans. a political problem more than substantive problem. the most important fix its get the website working. the administration always figured there would be some losers, they figured at this point. there would be so many winners to point to that they could make

the overwhelming case for the law. the web site glitches have take any way their best argument against their anecdotes of the losers. we don't have. ultimately, many times as many winners to point to. the best thing they can do is get the website working and get the number of winners up. so that they can have positive stories to point to. >> pre fessofessor, i agree wit. in any economics classroom. this is not a huge problem. as you know in the back room with elected democarts, politically, this its a huge problem. especially for democrats in states like florida, tennessee, others in the house, who are very worried about this. they need, they're saying they need to hear something from the president, something real, or they're going to move and vote with this, some of them vote with the republican bill friday. >> right. and as, the shame of it would be. act in pan rick. act in panic.

as a percentage of the whole. we are not talking about a large percentage. you are talking, correct me if i am wrong, professor. there could be in the end, up to 4 million people who will have some real changes in their health care. these are belter off people. than worse off people. they probably get more press attention. and the press kind of naturally gravitates to stories of things going wrong. people facing problems. you don't, you are not hearing anything at all about all of the governors who are depriving five to six million people, medicaid, by not going for the medicaid buy in, the medicaid expansion. and i think there is a little lesson here that -- all the people are signing up for medicaid. yes as professor gruber said it its free. also a lot simpler than trying to have subsidies in a complicated insurance market. >> the politics of defending come plex legislation is never seas. remember what these democrats are worried about -- is losing an election next year.

to a republican who will then replace them, and not just vote for the correction to the bill. they will be more votes to actually completely real, repeal it. so, professor -- that's the challenge. what i heard jay carney say, they seem to be thinking of something narrowly targeted so it would help some people who have lost their policies and, through some cracks in the law now, can not find something affordable where they live. to replace it. that would be -- an even smaller group than what people are generally talking about here? >> yeah, i think, look, there is no free lunch. as e.j. said. if you are going to reform insurance markets. so that everyone has to pay one fair price for insurance. which is by the way what the majority of americans want. vast majority want fair, nondiscriminatory insurance markets to. do that. that means everyone has to pay

the same price. that means some healthy people are going to have to pay more. you can't have a world where no one pays more, some people pay less. that can't happen. some people are going to have to pay more. >> that is the speech that was never made by any democart supporting the affordable care act. that little passage that you said, that you said. some people will have to pay more. >> that's right. now we are in the situation with unhelpful comments by democrats, president clinton. in that situation, the line for president obama is what's the most he can do to be responsive to this population without messing of the goals of the law. something like the upton bill would fundamentally undercut this law with allowing healthy people to stay out of the pool. you will induce insurers to raise the rates in 2015 and jud undercut the find a way, to address the people's concerns. >> e.j. dion, for those of us

there, in 1983, 1984. watching president clinton fail to get any legislation brought to a vote in either the house chamber or in the senate. managed to get some forms through committee. but in the clinton bill, none of the people in question, that we are talking about tonight would have been allowed to keep their substandard insurance. >> it didn't work out so well. because of that because there were no warnings. you really have a choice this week of bad policy versus dangerous politics. because to disrupt the markets now, would just be to throw in the towel. that's why -- the upton bill is so clever. because the it sound very reasonable. but it would actually undercut the whole structure of obama care. but you can't let the democrats in vulnerable districts go out there without the cover of some

fix that would help at least some people. >> e.j. dion, jonathan river. >> go ahead, jonathan. if i could jump in. one last point. the election is not until november. we didn't have to react. if by march things aren't working well. let's give them coverage. we are overreacting now. >> e.j., jonathan. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, senator elizabeth warren tells the senate something that they do not want to hear. just an amazing performance by elizabeth warren in the senate today. you have got to see this. in the "rewrite" tonight. it is team to welcome conservatives to the crusade against the death penalty. we are on the verge of of a big bre breakthrough in our politics with the death penalty, possible surge of libertarians and conservatives opposing is. a republican politician wants to get into a fight with the pope? with the pope? who would do that?

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new wyoming poll shows that he is running a mere 52 points ahead of liz cheney in the wyoming senate republican primary. 69% to 17. commissioned by the super pac american principals fund which has been running ads against chainy. and those ad are targeting her for appearing on a particular television network. >> msnbc, the go-to network for barack obama and washington's liberal elites. what's liz cheney doing here? >> don't think we will see liz cheney back on morning joe any time soon. jonathan, crystal are here. talk about elizabeth warren coming up.

elizabeth warren is mad as hell and will not take it anymore. senator warren has watched one too many completely qualified judicial nominees blocked in the senate by the republican minority. the most recent victim is professor cornellia pillard of georgetown, qualified to be confirmed as member of the d.c. court of appeals. in blocking her nomination. republicans did not claim that the professor is not qualified. they simply do not want to fill the judgeship. elizabeth warren then did something that freshmen senators never do. she took to the senate floor, to attack the senate itself.

>> article 2, section 2 of the constitution says that the president of the united states nominates judges with the advice and consent of the senate. there is no clause that says, except when that president is a democrat. republicans these days don't seem to like that. they keep looking for ways to keep this president from doing his job. so far they have shut down the government. they have filibustered people has nominated to fill out his administration. and they are now filibustering judges to block him from filling any of the vacancies with highly qualified people. we need to call out these filibusters for what they are. naked attempts to nullify the results of the last presidential election. to force us to govern as though president obama hadn't won the 2012 election. well, president obama did win the 2012 election. by 5 million votes. if republicans continue to

filibuster these highly qualified nominees for no reason -- other than to nullify the president's constitutional authority, then senators, not only have the right to change the filibuster rules, senators have a duty to change the filibuster rules. >> at least one republican welcomed the possible rule change suggested by senator warren. charles gasrassley said they wod turn the rule to their advantage. >> if the democrats are bent on changing the rules. then i say go ahead. there are a lot more scalias and thomases out there we'd love to put on the bench. crystal ball, there is elizabeth warren, who, herself, was effectively denied a nomination by the threat of the senate doing this filibuster stuff on her to. see her out there fighting them on this is just a perfect

revenge. >> it is fabulous to see her there. such a great, strong voice. not only because she was essentially blocked through the process. but the person they ended up wanting to go with and going with richard was block ford two years. to be head of the agency she got off the ground. once reid cut a deal, they were able to get hem throuim cuts cl her. and the thing you see with elizabeth warren, she is not there to be a senator, not enamored with power and prestige of being a senator. she has an agenda. she wants to get things done. that's why she is there. she is unafrapd to challenge the institution of the senate. she is not all about being a senator. she is all about being there working on behalf of the people and working on behalf of an effective government. >> john thnathan, i have slowly

around to the elizabeth warren position, held by some of the newer democrats in the senate. you know, i all way had that more, you know, established senate view. don't want to change this rule. when your party is in the minority. you are going to want to be able to use it. but on nominations i think they have really got to do it. we have hilt tht this unpress c road block. >> nuclear option what we are talking about here, the thing that you never want to do. you figure that reasonable people wouldn't allow a situation to get to that point, where you would just blow everything up, just to get some nominations through. as she lined, talked about in her, her, floor speech. we have been talking on, on the airways for months now. the republicans on capitol hill in the senate, when it comes to nominations. in the house when it comes to everything else. they have said no to everything. if you are elizabeth warren or any of the other senators who go to washington with the idea of

getting something done. oh, of governing which is why folks used to come to washington. well, it -- you know, using the nuclear option its the way to make that happen. so be it. threats from senator grassley. republicans threaten democrats. democrats cower in fear. >> there is a gamble to run. what are odd of being a republican president and when? >> a good point. >> then what is the composition of the senate going to be? the democrats just have off to hold on to one of those things to win this bet. on changing the filibuster rule for nominations. >> you have how to look further down the road. at some point, right, this would benefit the republicans if there was of a rule change. have to say to your point. i hear. >> democrats don't dupe tho thi republican nominees. you don't need a rule change to tame the democrats on republican nominees. >> if you win an election. you should have a chance to enact your agenda.

the republican agenda is very bad for america. bad for americans. if they see it in action they will kick them out and go in another direction. that's why i think we have to change the rule. we have gotten to the point where the senate doesn't work, government doesn't work at all. of a jae agencies like the d.c. district court, critical court for the country are unable to function because of senators. >> john than, grassley saying we'll get another scalia. of course you will. democrats did not filibuster scalia. that's how you got scalia. >> well, real, well right. his threat, i found actually laughable. you raise a good point. unless you have the white house, house, senate. that threat means nothing. especially since we, what we all know, the likelihood of there being a republican president is very, very. >> yeah. >> very, very slim. given what republicans are doing now.

angering, missing off so many constituents they will need to win the white house. the idea of a republican president, nominating another thomas or scalia is, what's the word i am looking for, next to nothing. >> yeah. >> the older, you know, establishment playing democrats in the senate are also drifting in this direction. >> start to. >> not hearing them anymore kind of privately giving those warnings, about, oh, boy, when we are in the minority. it takes a lot. you know, to snap that, that -- that incredible pull of tradition in the senate. i think the republicans have crossed the line. don't think there is anything worth to holding on toen the current rule. >> harry reid, the limited deal with mitch mcconnell. that was a big deal he opened the door to changing filibuster rules at all. previously had been opposed. he cam oe out and said i changey mind. that was a big signal. patrick leahy in the same direction. we may see movement on this. >> crystal ball. and jonathan.

thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> see senator warren's speech on the website, thelastwor thelastword.msnbc.com. >> coming up the latest, we hope the last, performance by the most entertaining mayor in north america. tore ron tomorrow's rob ford is in the spotlight tonight. and american conservatives, some of them any way, think the pope is abandoning them. and one republican is actually getting in a fight with the pope. wheat in vi we invited the pope on the show tonight. he has sent instead, father james martin, will join us. [ female announcer ] arms were made for hugging.

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in the spotlight tonight, north america's most colorful mayor, possibly ever. rob ford, mayor ford finally confronted by toronto city council after a series of revelations starting with this, of course. >> yes, i have smoked crack cocaine. >> when, sir? >> do i? am i an addict? no. have i tried it? probably in one of my drunken stupors, approximately a year ago. >> that performance was followed by the release of a nonmusical rap video starring mayor ford.

>> the release of that video led to another star burn before the cameras at an impromptu news conference. >> it's extremely embarrassing. and i don't know what to say. i -- >> when you are in that state! >> rob ford for prime minister! >> it was extremely -- >> a new poll -- a, should the mayor resign, get treatment and get out of politics for good? b, should he take a leave of absence, get treatment and return triumphantly to his job after three to four months?

c, should the mayor just keep doing what he is doing? only 41% think the mayor should go away for good. 41% say the may your should resign and get treatment and disappear. 35% of toronto residents are preparred to forgive and forget if mait yothe mayor takes a lea absence and get treatment, happy to see him return to business as usual at city hall. then there are the 24% who just love having the most entertaining mayor in the world at the moment. and want him to just keep doing what heap is doing include i gs crack. those 24% were not well represented in the city council hearing in which the mayor was politely confronted by the city council. >> it is very, very humiliating and embarrassing and degrading to sit in front of the world and admit what i admitted. i wasn't forced to admit what i

admitted. but i did. >> have you purchased illegal drugs in the last two years? >> yes, i have. >> it has been reported that you attended a residence in the city of toronto, and at that residence it has been deemed or suggested it is a -- a crack house. >> it know it a crack house. >> sorry? >> that its ns not a crack hous. >> you are not being truthful? >> i am not being truthful. have you been into the house? >> i have no interest being in that house. i am not a crack user. >> mr. mayor, do you think you have a an addiction problem with alcohol? >> absolutely not. >> mr. mayor, do you think you have a an addiction problem with substance abuse in illicit drugs? >> absolutely not. >> every episode that occurred caused commotion in the city has

been because you indicate that you have inebriated, you fail to appreciate that perhaps there is a problem there? >> counselor, i have admitted to my mistakes the i said it would not happen. again. it has never happened again at the air canada center. >> joining me now is rick salutin, columnist for "the toronto star." rick, i want to play for the audience what the mayor said in the city council hearing, about how he is definitely going to keep his job. let's listen to that. >> i am most definite leave keeping this job. on october 27th, the people have the right to decide do they want a may your that watches every dime and saves millions and millions of dollars or want some one else. that's their decision. i am not leaving here. going to sit, attend every meeting every executive meeting, i have not miss a day done here

i have one of the best attendance records ever. >> is there some way that you can explain to us why you don't want to take a leave? >> there is no need to take a leave of absence. return might calls. going to committees. watching every single dime being spent here. i have done it for 13 years. i am going to do it five more years. one now, and four more october 27th. >> is that possible? can he hang in there and keep this job? >> you know, i think, americans, am can politics has provided so much. so many laughs and such a sense of sa peer y sue peer -- superi the years. it's only fair we return you something like this. >> we appreciate that. >> fair play. i think. you can see how overmatched he is, in the, in the role.

his concept of being a mayor is penny pinching, basically. that's not what big city mayors do. i think he is in a way, he has been overwhelmed. one of the nice things up here is actually the level of scum passion that people extend to him. instead of just being miffed and pissed off. he is trouble. he needs help. he should take some time off. kind of a niceness. >> you could feel that. what i was struck by in the city council today was just how polite everyone was. >> some of that is. >> asking the tough questions. he did have one defender in the city council today. that's his brother. city counselor, doug ford. let's just listen to him for a minute. >> have you ever smoked marijua marijuana? a question, a yes or a no? have you smoked marijuana? >> point of privilege.

>> the answer, i guess is yes. the answer is yes, i guess. >> counselor ford. >> i would like everyone else to stand up, who has smoked marijuana. the whole council will stand up. don't come across. don't come across that you're holier than thou. >> so, rick there is a certain style that runs in the ford family. >> yeah. doug is believe it or not, doug is the closest thing rob has to a brain. his own hasn't functioned for a long time. >> how did he get elected may your? what was his base of support? what got him there? i think he was a good kouns sill m -- council member. he liked sitting and taking, liked taking phone calls. making sure people's water got turned back on. but i think also, it was this kind of bim-bam reaction.

prior to him we had a game who looked like a big city mayor. he was sort of, sort of leftish. it was what alexander coburn used to call a progressive. what he and the people he worked with exuded was a sense of moral superiority, and nobless oblige. and they didn't do much. and people peck up on that sense of disrespect. and -- peck up on thick of on t disrespect. they weren't voting for fiscal conservatism. they didn't want to be talked done to. it's hard to image in rob ford talking down to any body. >> not being talked down to now. rick salutin. thank you for joining us. kepi i keeping us up to date. thank you, rick. >> coming up. the conservative case against the death penalty. this is a very important development in the anti-death

penalty crusade. in the rewrite. and, a republican goes after the pope? she loves a lot of the same things you do.

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his re-election campaign which -- wasn't quite enough to win. that's how much public opinion can change in this country. and that's how quickly it can change. and public opinion is changing in the right direction on the death penalty. support for the death penalty in this country is at 60%. with 35% opposed. 60% may sound high. it is actually the lowest support level that the death penalty has had in 40 years. we now have very good reason to expect support for the death penalty to continue to drop, thanks to conservatives, concerned about the death penalty. that is a new group. that has emerged this year in opposition to the death penalty. the conservative "the washington times," ran an article monday head lined the conservative case against the death penalty. quoting mark hyden of conservatives concerned about the death penalty. conservatives believe that the government should exercise fiscal responsibility and restraint and the waste of the

death penalty process is in direct conflict with fiscal conservatism. "the washington times" reported a study of prosecution costs in maryland revealed that the average case in which the death penalty was pursued cost $1.9 million more than a case without the death penalty. they consume taxpayers' money, many argue the money could be better spent on schools and infrastructure. in california, donald heller who wrote the death penalty law in 1978 now says it has been a class sal fa failure, the cost of our cyst temperature of punishment, any benefit that could be obtained from it. now i think there is very little or zero benefit is so dollar wasteful it serves no effective purpose. ron briggs, a republican who supported the death penalty law in 1978, in california, now says -- i tell my republican

friend, close your eyes for a moment. if there was a state program that was costing $185 million a year and only gave the money to lawyers and criminals, what would you do with it? conservatisms raining intellectual george will has said, capital punishment like the rest of the criminal justice system is a government program. skepticism is an order. arch conservative, richard viggery has the said, conservatives have every reason to believe the death penalty system its no different from any bureaucratic government run operation which we conservatives know are rife with injustice. end result is the end of someone's life. a government system that kills people. conservatives concerned about the death penalty should be welcomed into the space previously occupied only by liberal groups. death penalty focus has been

crusading against the death penalty year in, year out. actor mike farrel, from "m.a. "m.a.s.h." became president of the organization when the death penalty peaked at 80%. mike farrel, continues to tirelessly soldier on, exposing abuses of the death penalty and making the practical, financial and moral case against it. death penalty focus as led by mike farrel has always been able to get some attention. at least once a year when they raise money hollywood style at a gala dinner, that honors people who have been helpful to the cause. people like ted kennedy, new york's, mario cuomo, reverend jesse jackson. of course a long list of hollywood liberals over the years including james cromwell, danny glover, harry belafante,

hillary swank, sean penn, aleck walled been. organizations like death penalty focus might now want to focus on what turn out to be the fastest growing group of opponents of the death penalty. new conservative, libertarian opponents to the death penalty. ron paul has said, there was a time i simply stated that i supported the death penalty. but now, ron paul has the endorsed conservatives, concerned abut the deaout the d penalty. ron paul said this, i believe support for the death penalty is inconsistent with libertarianism and fiscal conservatism. i am pleased with conservatives concerned about the death penalty's efforts to form a coalition of libertarians and conservatives to work to end capital punishment. well how about a coalition of lb

ral -- liberals, libertarians, conservatives to work to end the death penalty. how about death penalty focus? honoring ron paul for this position against the death penalty at their next big hollywood gala. i would buy a table for that one. and yes, i would still disagree with ron paul and everything that we disagree on. but on that night, in that ballroom, i would happily give ron paul a standing ovation for leading libertarians in opposition to the death penalty. [ imitating car engine ] that's mine. ♪ that's mine. that's mine. ♪ come on, kyle. ♪ [ horn honks ] that's mine...kyle. [ male announcer ] revenge is best served with 272 horses.

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>> secretary of state john kerry will be a morning joe exclusive tomorrow to discuss the latest negotiations. that means john kerry will not be able to run for senate in wyoming where liz cheney is being attacked for having appeared on msnbc's "morning

joe." up next, a republican who decided to pick a fight with the pope for his kind of liberal views. the pope's defender, and "last word" chaplain is here. the fight is on. if t it's coming up. [ woman 3 ] to come together even when we're apart. [ male announcer ] in stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy and more, swanson makes holiday dishes delicious. geothe last thing i want iswho doesnto feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, gravy and more, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today.

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she takes on the pope. >> what do you make up pope francis? >> i am trying to follow what his agenda is. i am surprise heed cad he came a couple things in the media. i am not one to trust the media interpretation of somebody's message. having read through media outlets that, he has had some statements that to me sound kind of liberal has take enemy aback. kind of surprised me. but there again, unless i dig deep into what his messaging is and do my home work i will not just trust what i hear in the media. >> joining me last word chaplain, father james martin. father martin, sarah palin thinks the pope is kind of lb rlb -- liberal. >> the pope's agenda is the gospel. neither liberal or conservative. love, compassion, tolerance. >> yeah, yeah, that sounded very liberal.

okay, love, compassion, tolerance. tolerance? come on. come on. >> i think there are a lot of conservatives that are loving, compassionate and tolerant. i don't think it is a political situation. i think it is something that people might interpret as liberal or conservative. but of it is its own category. >> is this pope a liberal? >> no. he is not a conservative. he is christian. i think the political labels don't work. >> you are very good at these word games. you are very good. >> listen, the popes are frequently more liberal than the most liberal democrat and more conservative than the most conservative republican. it depend on the issue. >> they're all against the death penalty for example. >> absolutely. >> yes, they're against the death penalty. they're pro-life across the board. as you, know, catholic teaching asks us to be. they are also for the poor. those categories of liberal, conservative, democrat,

republican are nonsensical. so when i hear some one say he is liberal. i think they're kind of missing the message. >> what, i mean, sarah palin is not catholic. she is not educated in the katrina le catholic church. what is it you think she sees when the pope speaks that makes her react that way? >> i can't look into her soul. but i think she is probably looking at something like you, know his emphasis on the poor. the very first thing he said in his press conference with -- journalists. >> that is a jesus christ emphasis. he he is not inventing this. sarah palin cliaims to follow. >> people equate that with liberali liberalism. which is unfortunate. that is christianity. t i equate it to liberalism to liberalism's credit that it is in sync. >> i would say liberals are not the only one whose care about the poor. a particular way of looking at