that we see again and again that they will not give up, they will not surrender, uh, of they are, they are striving always to live their lives as best they can, under horrific conditions, but the conditions currently in the gaza strip are far wor worse than anyone would have imagined they would have been a week or so ago. and russia put a proposal before the un security council earlier uh trying to get a humanitarian corridor open. try to get relief aid into get a couple humanitarian quart doors open for civilians to get out of gaza and to have humanitarian corridors open for humanitarian aid to get in and it was uh basically shot down by and not just by the us but by a handful of countries at the security council. why robert? what they said was that because the resolution didn't specifically condemn hamas, they weren't going to vote for it. now what different? does that make, these people are

suffering horrifically, they need help, get them to help, keep the political uh, political concept out of it, we don't need to condemn hamas or even israel in order to open humanitarian corridors. now another issue though is that egypt doesn't want uh palestinian refugees coming into to egypt because the egyptian government is affraid, the united states will or israel will prevent them from returning to palestine, the same way, israel has denied the right of return for 75 years for palestinians were driven out when the united nations established israel, but so that that's an issue right there, but the fact that the united nations security council could not say, yes, we need to uh provide humanitarian aid, these people who who are running out of food, uh, drinkable water is very hard to come by in in gaza anyway, water has to be boiled and treated before it can be drunken, in most and they

don't have electricity, the the fuel in hospitals and and communities is running out, many, it's already run out, these are people who don't have food, don't have water, don't have electricity, there's nothing political about that, put that aside and get them the help they need, and yet the security council was unable to do that, palean now president says is really strike on the gaza hospital, the hideous war massacre that cannot, be tolerated, saudi arabia also strongly condem robert, what it's called this heinous crime committed by israeli forces by bombing the hospital in gaza leading to the deaths of hundreds, the kingdom's foreign ministry said in a statement on tuesday, just a couple weeks ago, if you remember they had delegation out there in occupied west bank and they also had the tourism minister from tel avi visiting the uh kingdom what in what many... people saw were initial steps toward

normalization, they've put that on pause, could you imagine if the kingdom would have gone through with that, what kind of blow-back they'd get right now from their own people there i rate that they basically backed this regime just days before they killed so many arabs in one fail soop on this air strike on this hospital robert they would be getting the kind of of pushback that the countries that signed the so-called accords are getting from their people, there have been massive demonstrations in those countries, and that's uh, saudi arabia would be having that in on steroids if that had happened uh recently. the people in the middle east do not want normalization with israel until the palestinian until a palestinian state is established in freedom and and peace until the occupation ends. uh, the government of saudi arabia knows that, the government of... these other country,

governments of these other countries know it, but they're being reminded of it by the mass rallies that are happening in their in their cities since uh, since this all began. saudi arabia, saudi arabian government is absolutely right to cancel any thought of normalization with israel, these these government leaders are only looking for the prophets that normalization would give them them personally, not not looking to... to benefit their the people in their countries, but the people in countries do not want this, they want the palestinians to be free, they want them to have a country, they want them to be free of occupation, until that happens uh palesty was betrayed by several countries during the trump administration when those countries signed uh the agreements and normalization agreements with with israel, saudi arabia hopefully will not make that mistake, but now at this point with with this in

but has happened bombing of the hospital, this should be a turning point, but what's interesting is, the this this is horrific, horrific event that has happened, but israel had told uh palestinians in the northern part the gaza strip to go to the south, take these roots of the south and then bombed those roots, so there's where is the humanity, where is the fairness, even if if one wants to say there uh, there are rules of of war that need to be followed, and war is just barbaric anyway, but the israel is violating every rule of war that exists. "these these are these are crimes against humanity, right, and you know lot of these people are displaced that were at this hospital uh, basically heating that uh evacuation order from the north and they came to seek refuge at this hospital exactly with the israel

regime bombed them into the afterlife, can you believe that? this is, i can't believe it, because they've done it before, when uh, it's 2014 i believe, when..." uh israel was carpet bombing uh ghaza and there was a un refugee center clearly marked uh there were many many palestinians there who were there for shelter and israel bombed it and killed dozens and dozens of people and the united nations objected and and said this people un workers in gaza at the time said this was clearly marked there was no question that this was a un refugee se it should have been a safe place, just like that hospital should have been a safe place, but israel knows it doesn't need to play by the rules because the united states will protect it. and uh, i mean, is there any recourse? i mean, we we we talked about this before, and you get to

point where we're always basically on default back to resistance, that you know they've tried everything, the palestinians in the international arenas, the the the courts, the... trying to help have international law, go to bat for them, help them preserve their homeland, their identity, their rights, their right to self-determination, some dignity, and uh, basically, when they exhaust all options, and and and they end up in the state that they have been in for for quite some time, they're left with nothing but resistance, and we've talked about that in the past, robert, but when you see stuff like this, when you see them victimized by atrocity such as we just saw, you think that something... may change, something uh good may result from something this horrific, but mean i hate to be pessimistic, but it almost, it almost s, it almost seems naive to think that this will actually touch the hearts and minds of people in power in the west to stop

allowing this regime to do what it wants, when it wants to these people, western governments have been very careful to demonize muslims, and most palestinians, not all, certainly they're christians in palestine, but a large majority or muslims, and they're they've been demonized by by the west, and this is this is why uh, so many these crimes are overlooked, i i agree with you that one would think that bombing of where does, where do when does the world say this is enough, when does the world say this can't go anymore? but that doesn't seem to happen with uh the the the way things currently stand, when the the hamamas initiative happened on october 7th, the many palestinians or or passan sympathis were were

asked to condemn this action, but you'll notice that zionists are never asked to condemn uh what israel does, that's always accepted, that's always uh because the... defending themselves, how the perpetrator can be seen as defending itself from the victim is completely illogical. uh, i hope that people will finally say, this is enough, the slaughter of these innocent people has got to stop, but like you, i'm not optimistic, because that should have happened during the march of return, when peaceful, unarmed palestinians were demonstrating along the the border, and they were they were. shot, they were shot down and killed, uh, they were blinded, they were mamed, this is peaceful demonstration that went on for for several weeks of several months, but the world governments just turned, turned a blind eye to it, so i don't know what it's going to take, maybe the bombing of this hospital will

do it, we'll have to see, and uh, robert, mahmoud abbas palestiny president is uh, to hold an urgent meeting with palestinian officials, saying that the bombing. in this hospital is a war crime and massacre, why is it that many palestinians feel that abbus is more a part of the problem for palestinians rather than solution. well, i certainly agree with that. he is uh, one of the one of the tools that an occupied people have to make the occupation, to end the occupation is by making it so difficult for the occupier to to govern the the territory, because abbas works with, he has the so-called security coordination with israel, he removes from the palestinian people a very effective and non-violent tool of resistance. and he has done nothing for the palestinian people uh elections were scheduled year or so ago he cancelled them, he said it was because he

wasn't sure that israel would allow palestines in jerusalem to vote, so he therefore deprived millions of people from the right to vote, he also knew at that time that his popularity was under 20%, he would not have won the election, he would have been soundly and humiliately defeated, so he held on, but yes he is definitely part of the problem, uh, major part of the... problem, i don't know what this, what's going to come out this meeting that he's holding, because he is forever working to place israel, so i can't imagine that it's going to be very effective. right, and you mentioned uh, in your neck of the was uh, canadian uh prime minister justin trudo said that uh, this hospital attack by the israelis is horrific and absolutely unacceptable, and he uh made the remarks uh right in front of report. after they they brought the up the fact that this just took place and what the canadian

government's position is on it um he said that canada has stressed israel must abide by international law as it strikes back against hamos for the attacks under operation alaxa of flood uh back on the seventh of october so what says that canada must abide by international i mean pardon. that the israeli regime must abide uh by international law, what does that mean? does there does that have any teeth? will canada stop sending anything to israel? if it doesn't, will canada push for any kind of resolution? if it doesn't, will canada go beyond a simple condemnation if the israeli regime refuses to head the call? no, it won't. this the uh trido saying that uh israel has to abide by the rules of of war and so. international law is meaningless because as you said there's there's no teeth to it, he's not going to

sanction uh start sanctions, he's not going to uh do anything, even withdrawing the the ambassador, there will be nothing, it's just empty words and until the world community recognizes that genocide, they can't sit back and watch genocide happen, then genocide is going to happen, and canada is complicit in israeli's crimes. uh the same as the united states is, the united states has a bigger hand in it because it finances it fully and protects it at the united nations, but uh canada is no better, canada of course has an ugly history of um of colonialism, itself, setler colonialism, and genocide, and is just allowing another country to continue doing it. right, and the russia's uh, medi dev says israel's a deadly strike. on this hospital in gaza is a war crime and that's an assertion we have heard time and again from many world

leaders uh throughout the uh evening and into the early morning hours here in west asia um you know uh robert when you also oh i should mention this robert that we mentioned the saudis and that here is the uae saying that this is really attacked that's target the al ali hospital in the gaza strip is resulted in the death and injury of hundreds. of people and they they uh have the united arab emirates has strongly condemned this attack um but here's the irony and you very well know it's one of the handful of uh muslim countries that normalized with the regime how do you think that normalization is a sitting with those uh regimes now the moroccans the sudanes the bahrainis and the emirates when they see stuff like this take place to their breathring and well the people of those countries have never liked normalization and now there's going to be extreme rage because

of it uh not only the the the bombing of the hospitals possibly the last the last straw that uh the the killing of of palestinians in gaza uh for this last week, the continued uh killing in the west bank, things are are terrible there, not the degree that they are a gaza certainly, but people are dying there every day, innocent palestinians are dying there every day, the people in these other countries that have these other middle east countries that have normalized relations with uh israel are... going to are going to make their dissatisfaction, and that's a very very mild word, make their anger uh known to the governments. these governments need to recognize that they need to sever those ties uh in order to keep peace in their own country, and in order to satisfy the demands of justice and international law. and for our

viewers, these are live images out of aman, jordan, you can see and yemeny capital, sanat. protest and protesters condemning israeli and uh condemning the atrocities the of this uh israeli um bombing of hospital in the besieg gaza strip that is resulted in hundreds of deaths, we know that in the jordanian capital am on the left side of your screen there, they were encroaching upon the um israeli embassy, i believe asking for everyone. there to be expelled, but they're pushed back by um security forces that fire tier gas to push them back, but you can see they have not dispersed, they are still on the scene in the early hours of the morning, very passionate about getting their point across this condemnation, this uh outrage at the regime's relentless bombing over the last 10 days of civilians and civilian infrastructure in the besieg gaza strip and

particularly this bombing of hospital where uh healthcare workers the sick families uh thousands of people displaced there by uh the indiscriminate israeli bombings of the besieg gaza strip have perished at least 500 we believe or more have died as a result of this attack a hospital this is not the only civilian infrastructure that has been targeted uh robert the list goes on and on do we have uh do we have do we have mr don debar too with us yes i'm here. okay uh let me put robert fantin robert if you could stand by let me uh welcome don to the program here don debar welcome uh activists and commentator joining us from osening uh new york dawn uh this is beyond many of us is israelis carrying out something this blatant i mean we thought leveling high-riseed buildings and people's homes un shelters schools and

hospitals uh but this is an unprecedented. this hospital, this particular hospital with this many displaced people in it and sick uh, over 500, we know the five uh conflict, conflicts, the the wars between gaza and the regime in tel aviv, this has been an unprecedented catastrophe, we have seen nothing on this scale, your initial thoughts, well, one of the things i've been trying to get people who are supporting is. israel here in the united states to answer um because they think that the history of this conflict began on the seventh with the uh the attack by the hamas military wing uh on on the israelis um to to look back to their own history particularly uh jewish europeans and

americans to the warsaw ghetto uprising and look at the rather extensive record, even at the reaso center's website, and at the various us government archives, among other places, at the testimony of the people participated, number one, what drove them to do it, and number two, what did they do, and their situation was similar, they were walled in 400,000 people okay, of what's walled in in gaza, walled in into a getto that was organized by the nazis, um, that was, there was biathnicity, the same way the palestinians are being treated in apartide israel and in their own remaining lands, um, and uh, the people that were in there were in this condition for life, and their lives were

under constant threat, and that became intolerable for these polish jews. 4000 of them who rose up after year and change of the nazis coming in and grabbing them and taking people off to trablinka where they were being killed saying we have nothing left to lose we are going to fight and maybe we can break this thing but we're going to die on our feet and this this their situation the very worst that happened was the the germans came into poland in 1939 and this is in 1940. gaza has been under the sie, i heard president putin make reference to the siege of leningrad that lasted two and a half three years during world war ii, horrible as it was, hundreds of thousands of people. uh died, horrible deaths, but that was for two and a half years. gaza has been in that state since 2007. i don't think people really have a

their mind wrapped around that, people, there are people who are 15 years old who were born in that siege, in a prison camp, with no hope and no path out of ever getting out. this produces anger, some people don't take. they stand up and they strike out, and unless you're going to solve this problem, world, you're going to deal with this repeatedly, and it only gets more vicious, the more desperate people are, and i don't understand how people loses the collective memory of exactly that condition less than 80 years after experiencing it, well well don, you know, they they made movies about it, those those pockets uh, of jews that that form those small resistance groups to try to fight back against the uh the the nazi the nazis and and they portray them as heroes and freedom fighters even if maybe some of them

their efforts didn't materialize into anything other than just getting slaughtered by the nazis they uh you know basically refer to them as martyrs and heroes but the palestinians are doing the same exact thing repeating history and getting labeled as terrorists how does that sit with you this is what? human beings do when confronted with that situation. what it does, the irony of it is that every time a group, whether it's the nazis then or the zionists now, when you do that to another person and and you you treat them as untermension or as animals, as as netanyahu and his friends are calling the palestinians. when you do that, you actually prove their humanity, because you they responded the... only way human beings have ever responded to that, they rebell, they do not lay down for it, slaves revolt, that's our that's in our nature as human beings,

there was a man um who was a polish uh union organizer and he was socialist politician and he went into exile when the nazis took over poland and he went back in and he was in warsaw ghetto for a while and then he left. went to america, he went to the uk, he went to france, all the places that the palestinians have gone seeking relief, and he got the same thing that the palestinians are getting, nothing, and they watched as the jews were slaughtered, and he went back to london and he committed suicide, and he wrote a suicide note that essentially said, i cannot live with the shame of belonging to a species that would sit by and watch this done to one of their own. and we are now all this man whose name is name was uh simul ziggleborn h we are all zimil ziggleborn

right now someone has to step in and do something about this and the situation the configuration of forces it it's like the armagedden waiting to happen we understand that the united states is that they have 2,000 troops on the ground 400 marines ready to land two carrier groups off off the coast there, you have the israelis bombing syria where the russians have control of the air, you have americans on the ground there, and they're basically daring to go into gaza and slaughter two million people or however many are left, knowing that lebanon is not going to allow that hez is not going to allow that, iran's not going to allow that, the saudies may not even be may not even allow that because 'the people of saudi arabia, no matter what their government does, aren't going to stand by and watch it, and if they have to throw their government over to help the palestinians, that will happen fast, and

and let me put that to to to robert fantina to, robert, i want to wait, like you to win on that, when when uh holocaust uh members or you, the jews of the time, when they fought back against their oppression, against the apartide, when they fought against ' their ethnic cleansing and genocide, they're portrayed as heroes, but we see the west a daily basis persevered to justify what is happening, what the israeli uh regime is doing to palestinians there and beseeged gaza strip and in the occupied west bank and in occupied territories and at the same time demonizing palestinians when uh according to don, just few decades ago, that was the hip thing to do. is to rebel and fight back that oppression and that apartide, that genocide, that ethnic cleansing? yes, it's it's complete hypocrisy, because the uh the people

resisted the... nazis were seen as heroes or or the at least there today they're seen as as great heroes and people should look at their example and see that what was happening then is exactly what is happening today it is uh this there are vulnerable people who are rising up and resisting the the oppression of a more powerful nation and that is heroic thing to do under any circumstances and that is what the people of palestine have been doing for decades and they are criticized for it constantly when they have uh when they are using violent means of uh resistance which is is acceptable under international law uh just just to mention that an occupied people has the right to resist the occupation in any way at the disposed including armed armed rebellion when they but when they do that they're criticized when they do something peaceful like the uh march of return the great march of return or the bds movement for

example those are are condemned and criticized, so they can do nothing right in the eyes of the many of the western governments, the united states, especially, because whatever they do, whether it's peaceful resistance or non-peaceful resistance, they're going to be criticized, the uh us and and israel want them to just uh, just roll over and die, and if they won't, they will kill them, so and that's what that's what we're seeing happening now, this is there is is no sense of fairness or justice in this, no matter how you look at it, it can't be rationalized away in any way, shape or form, it is what is israel is doing is repeated war crimes, continual war crimes and crimes against humanity against the people of palestine, don debar um let me just first catch our viewers up to speed, these are live images from aman and sana, yemen, aman, jordan, earlier, we were had images out

of uh tehran, baghdad, istanbul, bayrut, these are protesters out in the early morning hours condemning israely bombing of hospital in the besieg gaza strip that has resulted in possibly over 500 civilian casualties including healthcare workers that includes doctors and nurses, many palestinians displaced by indiscriminate bombing on civilian targets throughout other parts of gaza that were sheltering at that hospital as well as the sick and the relatives at that hospital joining us are robert fantina a and don debar joining us from the states upper uh the upper north east uh new york uh mr. debar after this attack we know lot of attitudes really should change in the west really have to change in the west with respect to this regime but do they in your perspective and why or why not? well the short answer why not is impunity we saw an example of this at the

united nations security council. yesterday, russia introduced a resolution to the security council, which by the way uh is the legal avenue for addressing the issues that are on the table between uh hamas, the palestinians generally, the israel and whatever legal construct uh they might bring to the table also, and the united states and all the other parties, the security. under the un charter which is adopted among other places by the united states and other uh almost every nation on the planet, that is the the uh primary uh uh international law of respected disputes. the security council as jurisdiction over the use of military force um and absent a uh and there there are treaties of geneva and and others that deal with how to conduct a war, who you can

conduct war. with and against and under what conditions and all of that, completely blown out of the water. the entire thing is a perse violation of of international law of the un charter, and so russia brings a resolution in essence that calls for a cease fire, no fingerpointing, no negotiation points, stop shooting, stop killing, let's sit down and talk. the united states would not endorse that, they said that unless it condemns samas. and they they started adding conditions to it, they refuse to endorse it, in other words, they want the killing to go on, they instructed their own diplomatic core not to discuss with anyone, including their own staffs, anything relating to deescalation, deconfliction, uh, peace talks or whatever, this is to go on unimpeded and

with