welcome back to pay on censor live from new york city with british iraki rapper and pope palestine activist karim dennis better known as low key has been a powerful and influential pro-palestinian voice before and during this conflict. the official version of his track terrorist was taken off youtube after the hamas attacks on october the 7th, 14 years after its initial release, he's been highly critical, what he says is media bias and accused me of taking a pro israel slant on this show, well i'm joined now by loke who's at our london studio, lucky, thank you very very much indeed for joining me, i appreciate it, thank you for having me peace, um, i, i mean, on the issue whether i'm pro israel, i i don't have a horse in this race or this war, i try and be balanced, i try and

have all kinds of views, i think we've had more pro-palestinian people on the show in the last two weeks than any other new show in the world, they be getting huge audiences, so i would take issue with that charge that somehow, i'm slanted one way or another, i think this whole thing is a complete tragedy, i know that you've been committed to the plide of the palestinians for a long time, going back at least 15 years from what i can see in terms of you traveling to gaza, um, what was your reaction when you first heard about these attacks on october the 7th, well let's be clear, reading the testimony of survivors of october 7th from kiboot's bittery like yasmin porat was extremely harrowing. what she alleges is not only that her husband was killed in the initial takeover, but also she then says that the israeli military tanks fired on the room where the hostages were. killing 12 israeli

civilian captives. we have also seen fantastic work in the heretz newspaper by amos haril where he speaks at length about brigadier general rosenfeld who was in charge of the arets crossing. now when this military base was taken over, what he says, atmosel in haaretz, the well-known israeli newspaper, he says that rosenfeld, when he realized that the base was overtaken, called in an air strike. this is in haret, these are not my words, these are the words of amos haril. what we then saw is since october the 7th, 22 israeli civilian detainees killed in gaza by israeli air strikes. the israeli military has something called the hannibal directive. the hannibal directive was developed in lebanon in the 80s by the israelis with the clear understanding that they do not... want the

other side to take hostages, so for example, you have the case of hada galding, golding in 2014, what israel called operation protective edge, which killed over 2,200 palestinians, but when this israeli soldier was taken captive by the palestinians, israel then proceeded to kill everyone, including the civilians in the area around where he was. in and the soldier himself, so what israel has, unfortunately is a policy of killing captives, if you look at the case of gilad shalit, this was an is, allow me to finish, allow me to finish, keep talking, you can't keep talking, i have one last point to make, and hope that you'll allow me to make it, in the case of gilad shalit, what happened was one israeli soldier led to a thousand palestinian prisoners being released, there was a clear understanding within the israeli

military and political elite that they do not want people to be kidnapped, so therefore they unfortunately, as history has shown us and as the directive within the israeli military shows, they take action to kill their own captives that have been taken by the other side. right, let me, let me respond to you, you tweeted on october the 7th, the arregance to believe you could keep two million trapped in open air prison indefinitely, dot dot dot, that's to been your only comment about what happened, so just for the record, do you condemn what hamas did that day? i condemn the genocidal conditions which have created this violence, every heartbeat, every human heartbeat is sacred to me, and that is what has compelled me to work as i have for the last 15 years to save lives, to save liv and stop people dying, but that wasn't my question. clear

picture of what happened on october 7th, because unfortunately, too much of the media has relied on the israeli military talking points which are given directly to them until... so just until 7th, i will not, i will not allow the talking points of the israeli military to become dominant of what happened on that day, palestinians are subject to a genus war, collective punishment in gazza is real, let me respond, you are the only pro-palestinian person i've had on the show in two weeks who has tried to make out that this just didn't happen on october. what i am saying? do you do you, well i've got two questions, they're very straight forward, do you believe that 1500 people were slaughted including 260 people a music festival, you're a musician, and secondly, do you condemn the people who did it, they're not, i would like to quote something that you just said to the

former spokesperson for the idf, this was your exact sentence not long ago, you said it's difficult to tell between combatents and non combatants, so you the implication of what you said was somehow, it was understandable that israel has killed a palestinian child every 15 minutes in gazza for the last, but somehow they couldn't tell that those children were not combatents according to you, it's understanding, didn't say that, and i have said it is absolutely appalling the number of children who are dying in gaza, it's appalling and it will get words, i make no bones about that at all, and i have to say and i have to say, but you have to start, you have to start sure. from humanity point of view, i can absolutely express my horror at the deaths of palestinian innocent civilians, as i have done many times over the years, i think it's horrifying, and i think this is why i i have serious problem with the proposed ground invasion, because i think it will create

unbelievably large numbers of civilian casualties, and i'm not sure what the strategy will work, um, but i'm just curious why you who is, i know you care about people, i know you care passion'. about the palestinian civilians, but you're the only pro- palestine voice i've had who's even tried to suggest that what hamas did on october the 7th was not as bad as we think, so is that what you think, what do we think, but what do we think, peers, the information is not clear, as i've said to you, all human life is even tried sacred, i'm not trying to hide anything, you're trying to hide something, respect, you are trying to, you are definitely trying to dissemble here, and i'll explain why. i've given you an opportunity to simply say whether you condemn what hamas did, which by the way, they have brazenly boasted about, they posted videos celebrating what they did, there is no doubt about what hamas did, they want you to know

what they did, they want me to know that, they want the world to know, they killed jewish people in the main and in israel with impunity, 260 people in a music. festival, babies, grandmothers, they kidnapped 200 people, god knows what's happened to them. now you can shake your head, but what you can't do is deny that that happened, because hammas have admitted it brazenly and with great, and if they if they've omitted it, do you condemn what they did? i absolutely morn the loss of all human life in this conflict, and i have struggled for 15 years of my life a way. that pears to be honest, you haven't, okay, and i take you as empathetic person with a high level of emotional intelligence. okay, i have struggled for 15 years of my life to stop the killing, for a ceasefire now, to stop deaths, but i have to say,

peers, that actually this line of questioning, unfortunately, a personal level is somewhat hypocritical, and i'll explain why. on april 18th, 2022. you said the exact phrase, that you feel like nelson mandela walking out of prison on the long road to freedom of speech. today there is a statue for nelson mandela outside parliament. now human rights watch, amnesty international, bate salim, and even the harvard law school, have said that israel practices apartide against the palestinian people. do you know what the anc struggle against apartide entailed? are you aware that the anc are believed to have very unfortunately, horrifically and terribly taken the live lives of children and civilians in their struggle against apartide, so you seem

absolutely content to not only compare yourself to nelson mandela, who served 27 years in jail for what they described as terrorism at the time. but yet you cannot see what the vast majority of human rights organizations in the world see when they look at the palestinians when you look at un resolution 194. paragraph 11. the palestinians have the right to return home, almost a million of them were displaced in 1948 with the foundation of the state of israel, and what we are now on the brink of is palestinians, million of millions of them being driven into the sionide desert with help of the us delta force, but with the british, this is a manufactured. let me say

something, i completely agree with you about the appl to the palestinian people, i've tweeted about this for the last two weeks, no, no, to be fair, you haven't peers and this is not journalism, was journalism, was journalism, that's journalism, palestinians are reaching out from the cage that israel has put them in and they'... trying to speak to the world, and they are being met, they are being met with cold indifference, and i would say to you pears, i would say to you, that that gentleman that you've just had on the show, mark, mark regev, he belongs in the hague, david potreus, peer, you made your reputation as opposing the invasion of iraq, well i would ask you, journalist to journalist, how could you justify the interview you just gave to the head of us forces in that illegal occupation of iraq that david portraus. led, he was then the head of the cia. both of the individuals that you have just had on this show, deserve to be

in the hague, tried for war crimes. i am not anything like them, i have not hurt a fly. those two men have. why are they given the respectability that you gave them with your interview, and why am i interrogated as if i am somehow someone that could hurt human being? well, certainly in mark regev's case, i pushed him hard on all the positions. adopting, that was hard, let me explain, because i did a tweet today and i meant every word of this, i said, i have great respect for anybody who in the immediate aftermath of this appalling terror attack said it was outrageous and appalling, there are 1,500 palestinians still under the rouble in gazza, exactly, you've had your say, they're still under the rubbles, they're still under the rouble, i said those, i said those whose instinctive reaction was not to feel that. and i think you're one of them because your reaction was to say the arrogance to think you could keep two million people trapped in

open air prison indefinitely, as if somehow that justify what happened that day, it didn't justify exactly what you're doing, the point the point when that tweet was sent, the point when that tweet was sent, you had not seen anything, you have had your you've had your criticism of me and that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to it, like i said to you, i or you said about me, i believe in free speech, you're entitled to your opinion of me, of david petraiers, of mark reget, but i'm also entitled to judge you as somebody who did not find it in themselves to express anything involving any just expressed it, i've just expressed it, and and this is not journalism, the idea of us comparing our moral compasses, and somehow i have deficient moral compass, somehow i a moral monster. what's true, you know what's true, is not the people that have shown a cold indifference to the ethnically cleansed palestinians, dispossessed, in three every refugee in the world is palestinian, they are the largest refugee population, those who have turned a

blind eye to their suffering are those that need to be seriously interrogated about their moral compass, and i would ask you, i would ask you before we end the show, no i would ask you that i able to read out the names of the 20 palestinian journalists that have been because i have two more guests 20 journalists so i'm being sensored now and i'll tell you something else. this badge, this badge, this badge, zoom in on this badge, this badge was given to me by an employee of this building who said they were told they could not wear this badge because it was the palestinian flag, you talk about uncensored, this is censored, this badge, in this build wear a badge, so that's a ridiculous thing to say, i'm in new york, uh, but good to see you lokey, i appreciate you coming on the program.

we must not become part of south africa's problem, we must remain part of their solution, we must not aim to emplo ourselves our solutions, our favorites in south africa, damn it, we have favorites in south africa, the favorites in south africa are the people who are being repressed by that ugly white regime, we have favorites. i also want to say a word about the situation in israel, the more we learn about the attack, the more horrifying it becomes, more than 1,000, 1,0

innocent lives lost, including at least 27 americans, these guys make they make al-qaeda look pure, they're pure, they're pure evil, but i said from the beginning, the united states, make no mistake about it, stands with israel, united states stands with israel. a talk with remarkable people revealing the secrets of a complicated puzzle of an occupation who caused the occupation of

palestine, how was the land of... palestine gradually occupied by zionists, here the truth about the colonization from lane c hagopian and noam chamski. watch the documentary on press tv.

the oslo accords broke down the interfather. arafat practically agreed with everything, but he didn't get anything in return. palestinians had acquired very little out of the slow accords and if anything it had simply further entrenched. the realities on the ground are such that uh, we are we have accepted, we have signed on the dotted line to something that effectively guarantees the israeli occupation for the forceable future. what is really makes palestine central is that it is the last color. i was a professor

at university so i tried to talk about the rights of my nation and the israeli oppression of palestinians by writing books, articles or giving speaches and participating in debates. why has the islamic republic of iran pursued unwavoringly pro-palestinian policies for more than four decades? what is the rational behind iran's attitude towards palestine? and how does iran view the palestinian question? these and more on this episode. episode of iran today.

israel presses ahead with its deadly war on gaza with. most of the massicers being committed in areas the regime claimed to be safe. an international charity says israel is using starvation as a weapon of war against gaza civilians, as the un says hospitals in the enclave are running low on fuel. and students in several american.