more than five weeks past since israel's unpresented war on palestinians in the gaza strip, it's claimed the lives of more than 11,100 people, mostly women and children so far. now prior to the war, gaza was already called the largest open air prison on earth, given the israely years long siege against it. now it's called a graveyard for children, or the is really extermination mission is raging. aimed at forcing the palestinians to

do away with their motherland and find themselves another place to live, now where? deserts or ireland, that was a proposal put forward by israeli minister of heritage few of days ago. now welcome to the spotlight, i'm your host najafi, and these are our guests in this episode of the program. allen, writer of and analygas from beirout. also with us is tony gosling, historian and investigative journalist in bristol. good to see you gentlemen. now let's go to beirout first to uh ali, as as you know, israel is now targeting hospitals directly, you to be in the vicinity, before that it was given a warning that evacuate and we're gonna uh do this, and they did it, so what does this say about the nature of this regime? well, i think. of this regime was revealed quite a

long time ago, israel's part of israel's military doctrine i would say is to target civilians in 2006 it targeted the bridges in 1996 we had the kana mesica if you recall that one where a youon compound which was housing lebanese civilians was bombed leading to the death of women and children, so i think um the world is accustom to this, or at least the victims, the... countries that are falling fallen victim to israeli aggression have been accustomed to this, but what's happening in gaza has to be said has brought the situation to a whole new level, the escalation, the targeting of civilians, not just the targeting of hospitals by the way, what's been unique about this particular camp is the targeting of journalists, we've had tens of journalists have been killed in addition to the targeting of hospitals, so i think that um it's reveals the true nature of

what i would call right-wing zionist terrorism, which is represented by the current government, the current israeli government which is in power, and i think that you know the more israel, israeli politics shifts to the right, the more you're going to see these acts which stem from racism and stem from viewing the other individual as being subhuman or not completely human, and this is what this is what we saw in the... statements from israeli officials early on when the israeli effence minister gallant referred to palestinian palestinians as being human animals, so it just goes to show i think that the zionist supremacy if you would like, which is currently prevailent in the israeli government. okay, jonny gosling, i want your answer on the same question, i mean cuuse you can't think of any justification to hit hospitals, what's the use of hospitals and that hamas officials? said, okay, if if you

doubt, if you have claims that you can find resistance fighters, bases, whatever, okay, let the un come and have a visit. well, these are just lies, the israel right from the very start of this, for example, saying that they had no idea that this was about to happen, they've been preparing for this type of hamas attack for years and so that was a lie, right from the word go, we've just had lie after lie after lie from the israeli authorities, from the israeli defense forces and this of course has been encouraged by the british and the americans, particularly david potreus, the american general has been encouraging the israeli defense force to, in quotes destroy hamas, the only thing is uh that 95% or more of the um people being killed in this attempt have been innocent civilians, now this is a of course a war crime, collective punishment of the entire population of gaza is really the most extreme we've seen i think so far

over the years of hell that the whole israeli project has been bringing to the palestinian region we in britain here have had a quite a of sacred weekend, in fact, i myself have been to a remembrance day service in the local abby here, and uh, the the idea is that we remember the war dead, particularly from world war two, many of whom we knew, my generation, and uh, the idea, it seems to me that the government and the media, much of the media in britain is trying to do is to is to make an equality between the sacrifices made in world war ii to defeat fascism and the natz. who of course were um no strangers to genocide and that was one of the main reasons that people were so willing to go and fight them uh to put this down this poison and humanity uh is that the the there is attempt equate these lives uh lost with those

in iraq and there was no irony on the television today looking from london as people who fought in the illegal war in iraq were um being commemorated and interviewed. uh as if there was some kind of parallel with the war in in the 1930s and 1940s against hitler, so this is one of the things i think is very perverse about the way the british remembering this, because this genocide is most definitely a very british genocide, if we go, if you really want to remember, let's go back to 1917 and 1918 and look at general allenby's campaign to sweep the ottomans out of palestine uh, and it's it's very, i think interesting to know. that in the gaza campaign in 1917, the day that was finished uh, the balfer declaration was published uh in the uh times of london, and the same exact thing with the battle of magiddo when the turks were pushed out of northern palestine uh and were forced to sign surrender uh,

that's when the world war, the first world war finished, so it's almost as if uh the whole point of world war one uh was create was clearing the space for the british to allow the... to put the zionist state in there, these are the sorts of things i'd like to have seen being remembered, not uh somebody put on tv talking about uh how sad it was that someone was uh a british soldier or airman was was killed fighting illegal war in iraq right uh now i leave back to the same question why was this request on the part of the palestinian fighters fall on deaf ears why didn't the un or anyone else in charge? uh go there and visit first hand, especially at this shifa hospital that was hit, because reports saying that israeli soldiers shoot anybody who tries to enter or to leave that hospital, well look, um, it has to be said

that the un stands up until now, from my perspective, i was quite surprised in a positive sense, un secretary general antonio gat stated that time he clearly said that operation al oxustorm sorry did not stem from vacuum and that he basically to the fact that um it was because of the israeli pressure, the israeli settlement activity etc. the sufferings of the palestinians are what led in the end to operation alostorm guteres didn't say that like in exact words but he clearly was hinting in that at that and he was subject to heavy criticism, if you recall by the israeli officials, so the un stands, i think been uncritical of israel, now as to why they haven't taken up the request or the invitation issued to go and visit or to investigate, that remains to be seen, don't

forget that the call made by the hamas officials is just days old, so you might very well see the un going in, at the same time, you know, united states of america is the major funder. the un, so obviously the un would fear of any possible repercussions if it was to go ahead and investigate you know the united states cutting off funding etc. um, that's always a risk, but uh, most importantly, i believe that the majority of the world has come out against israel, and that i think is what separates this particular conflict from previous conflicts, even the french president, emmanuel macron, for a ceasefire recently subject to heavy criticism by benjamin netanyahu, so indeed, you know, things are changing and i don't think things are changing for israel's interests. okay, tony, speaking of macron and other european leaders, are they really honest in their calls, and also we have joe

biden and security states saying that we don't want to see hospitals hit, and it's the us made weaponry, missiles that are hitting those hospitals, hell fire missiles provided made in the usa. is so are they honest in this and they're asking for the so-called humanitarian pause? do they really mean it? well, i think actually, i think they do, many these european leaders of... see themselves as now much frier to criticize the united states and britain now after brexit and yes they do and uh you know what's i think been going on with the genocide that we've seen over the last month of uh the 11 and a half thousand i think you said was the latest death toll uh mostly almost all civilians being killed uh completely unnecessarily uh because this is not achieving any kind of military uh aim uh for... the israeli defense forces um and that's i think why why this has

been allowed to continue uh they have they have also felt pressure from political pressure from within their own countries and they also don't feel wedded as much as they were to uh the anglo-zionist empire anymore uh so that's one of the main reasons i mean also of course there've been ridiculous um inflammatory statements from the well i wouldn't call them the zionists anymore because they are many zionists are actually out on the streets protesting against this new far right government and particularly against this kind of what they what they call now the the greater israel block, including which of course is hamar ben kaver, he's one the senior ministers, national security minister there, he's saying anybody who supports palestine's right to self-defense, now they have that right in international law, anyone that supports them is a terrorist, now this is insane, it's ridiculous, but it's extremely dangerous that these poisonous ideas have been allowed - to uh get to the into the heads of the those running the armed forces of israel, they're of course encouraged by uh mainly by i think

the americans, the british as well, sort of uh hanging on the american coat tails, but it's largely partryus, i think that's been talking to uh the chief of staff of the israeli defense force and encouraging them, and this is what they they use as kind of cover, which is uh calling the uh legitimate defense of of people's right of self-defense as terrorism, now actually what's going on of course by the israelis dropping bombs from the sky is itself terrorism, it's state terrorism, and it's really no difference in one person killing another, uh, the the words are don't mean anything except that uh this is attempt to actually shut down the whole of international law and say well we can just do anything we want in gaza and really i think there's a it's a kind of elaborate land grab they're trying to sweep the uh entire population out of the way so they can just steal the land, right? now ali uh, these are anti-israid really have been ongoing across

the world and africa, and europe, and the western world, and asia, almost everywhere, and uh, londoners and their hundreds of thousands yesterday, they marched on the us embassy, not the israel embassy this time, calling for a halt to the israel genocide, so looks like that londoners have realized that the washington's complicity and role in all of this, so i want to ask you, what's in this war for washington? actually, i don't think there's much in this war for washington, i think that the problem with us policies in the middle east is that there isn't a us policy, there's basically a support israel policy, the united states practices policies which don't serve american interests, they practice policies which serve first and foremost israeli interests, um, joe biden, quickly, there was an automatic reflexive. support for israel, he went to tel aviv. i don't think any of this was actually part of a grand plan or scheme. i think there's what

i would call a american addiction to supporting israel for various reasons, one of which is the strength of the pro israeli lobby in the us. the other is the ideological viewpoint. you know, there is an ideological mindset, which i think is prevalent in washington, which basically views rightly or wrongly. israel as being the good guy, the natural allie, and it's washington's moral duty to defend israel, even if that costs american interests, i think indeed that mindset is at play and i think it's a psychological defect if you would like which washington continues to suffer from, but there again there are changes, there is a progressive camp within the democratic party, people like rashied, even more of some of the more mainstream democrats, for for a reason, an important reason here is that the

demographics in america are changing, the democratic party represents the minorities, meaning latinos, african americans, arab americans, all of these minorities traditionally support the democratic party, and because of these minorities, because of their spred, the getting a larger presence, that puts more pressure on the democratic party to adjust its policies now, "we haven't seen that play out just yet, because joe biden belongs to the older generation, but i think that the more the democratic party continues maybe to shift towards the left with the israeli gov'. and shifting more towards the right, that is going to create a divergence, i think between the united states and israel, and you're starting to see it slightly, slightly now with these voices in congress who are more and more daring and brave in challenging the pro israelly lobby in washington, right? now uh, tony, there is this division among the israeli officials

regarding this law with former israeli prime minister barak, warning, just five six days ago. that tel aviv's image you know is changing the world public opinion is turning against uh israel, especially in the us, would nanyahu be a type of person to head any such warning? no, i think he the man is nihalilist, i don't think he will use any kind of cover uh in order to stay out of jail effectively, but i mean it's a really good question you ask, what's in it for america, what's in it for britain to support this kind of war crime - mass war crime genocide uh you know and and as i said it is i like to to call it very british genocide because it was most you know mostly the british that created this situation in the first place uh you know by uh by the british mandate in between the two main world wars uh you know so i think also though another reason of course is the arms arms industry they they stand to make a

tremendous amount of money out of this also inside the dealing when a war takes place enormous great take place in stock markets, people can make lot of money uh on the derivatives market gambling on those big stock changes, i wouldn't put that past uh some of the uh bank banksters uh to to be betting a war um and oil prices of course fluctuate massively, if you know you're about to do something and change the price you can make lot of money on that, but then there's also this uh encouragement which has been going on now uh since i think the designers project started really. of of having a religious war in the middle east with - kind of fake version of judaism which is essentially a peace loving religion uh fake version very much like the salafists uh occupied the space of uh islam and tried to um really just take that and weaponize it so this is what really has been going on i think with the israelis they're weaponizing judaism

they've been weaponizing it in britain to get rid of the pro-palestinian support within the conservative and "the labor parties for example, accusing them of antisemitism, and so this religios and one thing that absolutely illustrates why i'm saying is the way that jews have been out on the streets of london protesting against the uh genocide in gaza, this is the namod group, i'm sure if your correspondents have come across and also of course the neturi carter, the orthodox jews and even if you go back to the bible, you'll find in the new testament a discussion about the..." synagogue of satan, so this is something which i think is is there in the literature, it's just it's a bit too hot to handle, it has been in the past anyway, and now we're starting to see the weaponization of judaism against gaza, right, which is of course zinanism, which is nothing to do with semities and all that, yeah, okay, we don't have time to discuss that, we'll leave it for another time, now ali, what's what's the plan, the million dollar question, is tel

aviv held bent on exterminating all palestinians in gaza, be it resistance fighters or? civilians, or is it going to push them out of their land, which is burning to ashes and grab that land or maybe both? before i answer that question, just quickly about the religious factor, that's a very important point, because indeed, there are many american members of the elite why into this narrative of a jeudo christian alliance against muslims, even read one american military commander speaking about the... american military aspousing judo christian values, so that ideological factor, ideological, religious factor is strongly present when you want to talk about american uh support for the israeli side, as to the plan, is it to expel the palestinians or um, i'm not sure the israelis have a clear plan

in that regard, they talk about netanyahu has been making remarks all over the place, sometimes he's saying that we want to. expell, sometimes he saying that a prisoner swap will lead to eventually to a ceasefire, so i think the israelis are a bit in a you know kind of a mess as to what their actual goals are, but it seems to be the case that they are not yet ready uh to end this war, and that the mindset of revenge is still playing the major role, that's still what is steering this current conflict, be it from netanyahu or gallant or other. senior israeli official, that mindset of revenge is still center stage, and that's why i think the war is going to take some time, and even american pressures, if you can notice, i'm not sure we can call them. pressures, i'm not sure, i think they half-hearted american attempts, maybe, but um, you know, the situation as it is, doesn't look promising as to seeing an imminent end towards this war, i think we

have some time to go, okay, let's see what tony thinks about this, what's the plan, tony, this is a scorched earth policy, what do they want, that's land in ashes for, well they do want the land, they most definitely do, but there are other ways of doing this, and the idea of just simply killing all the... civilians uh seems to me be very very very extreme, maybe they are just in a bit of a hurry to grab the land, of course this has been going on ever since the creation of the israeli state and before it in fact in 1948 uh more and more land being stolen by uh the the um israeli state and the israeli defense forces of course they're not defending hard at all are they they they are in fact when they were called to defend in on october the 7th they didn't seem to be around they disappeared for about seven hours uh allowing much many things to go on uh which i'm sure will be looked into including this thing the hannibal doctrine where uh the israeli defense forces would even turn on their own people rather than allow them to be taken

hostage so i mean the end game seems to me to be just simply to sweep uh palestinians out the entire gaza strip and into egypt and uh then to take the land to steal the land actually along the coast there is very beautiful and very very good real estate uh and uh so this is the sort of... thing that the un has really got to uh come down hard on uh and i'm just amazed really that the arab states have been so restrained in not intervening further you know in a military fashion because uh you know of course the israelis are likely to take that as an excuse to to kill even more palestinians at an even faster rate uh so we we really do need i think that two one of two things to happen either the us or britain to uh call for a ceasefire and then i think we see the guns fall. the aircraft from the air and maybe even taking some more extreme measures like a no fly zone uh brought in by the united nations by uh states around there uh if at

all possible to stop these uh israeli aircraft and drones uh dropping dropping bombs on this area we've seen day after day no let up in this and there has to be letup the prayer from all over the world are calling for this and there should be political and military demands to back that up. okay, maybe it should start with actually the defunding the israel regime and also stopping sending arms to them in the first place. thank you so much for that alisk writer and public analysts in beirout. tony gustling, historian investigative journalists in bristol. and thank you for watching this episode of the spotlight. i've been your host, i'll see you next time.

اطلع يا عم اطلع اطلع اطلع.

marine, navy, air force. make no mistake, this is not just another episode of violence between israelis and palestinians i was deeply sad and outraged by

the uh forming moment, can i begin by saying that wars are bad for economies, full stop, when governments start spending money on wars, they have less money for people, calls for seasfire are calls for israel to surrender to hamas. if you look at the history of the israeli entity, especially the economic history. israel is a child which been fed and bad by united states. october 7th marked new chapter. in israel's

history, they were stunned by the unexpected turn of events. now the big question is, can israel restore its shuttered image, after the seismic shift in its narrative.

your headlines on press the v 38 days of unabated israeli bommings claim more than 11,100 palestinian lives in gaza, mostly women and children. the garsan doctor says the situation of the territories hospitals is dire and they will turn into mass graves if fuel runs out and generators are shut down. anamas says israel's attacks on gaza hospitals are deplorable vowing to respond to the regime's crimes.