in more than five weeks past since israel's unprecedented war on palestinians in the gaza strip. it's claimed the lives of more than 11,100 people, mostly women and children so far. now prior to the war, gaza was already called the largest open air prison on earth, given the israely years long siege against it. now it's called a graveyard for children or the israely extermination mission is raging, aimed at force. the palestinians to

do away with their motherland and find themselves another place to live. now where desert or ireland, that was a proposal put forward by israeli minister of heritage few of days ago. now welcome to the spotlight, i'm your host, and these are our guests in this episode of the program, writer and political analying as from beirout. also with us is tony gosling, historian and investigative journalist in bristol. good to see you gentlemen, now let's go to beirout first to uh ali, as as you know, israel is now targeting hospitals directly, used to be in the vicinity, before that it was given a warning that evacuate and we're going to uh do this, and they did it, so what does this say about the nature of this regime? well, i think the nature of this. was revealed quite

a long time ago, israel's part of israel's military doctrine, i would say is to target civilians in 2006 it targeted the bridges in 1996, we had the kanaca if you recall that one where a you on compound which was housing lebanese civilians was bombed leading to the death of women and children, so i think the world is accustomed to this, or at least the victims, the countries that are fallen victim to israeli aggression have been accustomed to this, but what's happening in gaza has to be said has brought the situation whole new level, the escalation, the targeting of civilians, not just the targeting of hospitals by the way, what's been unique about this particular camp is the targeting of journalists, we've had tens of journalists have been killed in addition to the targeting of hospitals, so i think that um it reveals the true name of what i would call right-wing

zionist terrorism which is represented by the current government, the current israeli government which is in power, and i think that you know the more israeli politics shifts to the right, the more you're going to see these acts which stem from racism and stem from viewing the other individual as being subhuman or not completely human, and this is what this is what we saw in the statements from israeli officials early on when the israeli effence minister gallant referred to palestinian palestinians as being human animals, so it just goes to show i think that the zionist supremacy if you would like, which is currently prevailent in the israeli government. okay, tony gasling, i want your answer on the same question, i mean cuz you can't think of any justification to hit hospitals, what's the use of hospitals and that hamas officials also said, okay, if

you doubt, if you have claims that you can find resistance fighters, bases, whatever, okay, let the un come and have a visit. well, these are just lies, the israel right from the very start of this, for example, saying that they had no idea that this was about to happen, they've been preparing for this type of hamas attack for years and so that was a lie, right from the word go, we've just had lie after lie after lie from the israeli authorities, particularly from the... israeli defense forces and this of course has been encouraged by the british and the americans, particularly david purtrayaus, the american general, has been encouraging the israeli defense force to uh, in quotes destroy hamas, the only thing is uh that 95% or more of the um people being killed in this attempt have been innocent civilians, now this is a of course a war crime, collective punishment of the entire population of gaza, is really the most extreme with... seen i think so far over

the years of hell that the whole israeli project has been bringing to the palestinian region we in britain here have had a quite a of sacred weekend. in fact, i myself have been to a remembrance day service in the local abby here, and uh, the the idea is that we remember the war dead, particularly from world war two, many of whom we knew, my generation, and uh, the idea, it seems to me that the government and the media, much of the media in britain is trying to do is to is to make equality between the sacrifices made in world war ii to defeat fascism and the nazis who... of course were um no strangers to genocide and that was one of the main reasons that people were so willing to go and fight them uh to put this down this poison and humanity uh is that the the there is attempt equate these lives uh lost with those in iraq and there was no irony on the

television today looking from london as uh people who fought in the illegal war in iraq were um being commemorated and interviewed uh as if there was some kind of parallel with the war in in the 1930s and 1940s against hitler, so this is one of the things i think is very perverse about the way the british remembering this, because this genocide is most definitely a very british genocide, if we go, if you really want to remember, let's go back to 1917 and 1918 and look at general allenby's campaign to sweep the ottomans out of palestine uh, and it's it's very, i think interesting to note that in the... gaza campaign in 1917, the day that was finished, the balfer declaration was published uh in the uh times of london, and the same exact thing with the battle of magiddo when the turks were pushed out of northern palestine, and were forced to sign a surrender, that's

when the world war, the first world war finished, so it's almost as if the whole point of world war one uh was create was clearing the space for the british to allow the zionists to put... the zionist state in there, these are the sorts of things i'd like to have seen being remembered, not uh somebody put on tv talking about uh, how sad it was that someone was uh, a british soldier or airman was was killed, fighting an illegal war in iraq. right, now i leave back to the same question, why was this uh request on the part of the palestinian fighters fall on deaf ears, why didn't the un or anyone else in charge of? go there and visit first hand, especially at this shif hospital that was hit, because reports saying that israeli soldiers shoot anybody who tries to enter or to leave that hospital, well look, it has to

be said that the un stands up until now from my perspective, i was quite surprised in a positive sense, un secretary general antonio guterres state that time he clearly said that operation sorry did not stem from vacuum and that he basically to the fact that it was because of the israeli pressure the israeli settlement activity etc. the sufferings of the palestinians are what led in the end to operation alostormres didn't say that like in exact words but he clearly was hinting in that at that and he was subject to criticism if you recall by the israeli officials, so the un stands, i think been uncritical of israel, now as to why they haven't taken up the request or the invitation issued to go and visit or to investigate, that remains to be seen, don't forget that the call made by

the hamas officials is just days old, so you might very well see the un going in, at the same time, you know, united states of america is the major funder of the... so obviously the un would fear of any possible repercussions if it was to go ahead and investigate you know the united states cutting off funding etc. um that's always a risk but uh most importantly i believe that the majority of the world has come out against israel and that i think is what separates this particular conflict from pre-previous conflicts even the french president emmanuel macron called for se recently criticism by benjamin netanyahu, so indeed, you know, things are changing, and i don't think things are changing for israel's interests. okay, tony, speaking of macron and other european leaders, are they really honest in their calls, and also we have joe

biden and security states saying that we don't want to see hospitals hit, and it's the us made weaponry, missiles that are hitting those hospitals, hell fire missiles provided made in the usa, is so.... "are they honest in this, and they're asking for the so-called humanitarian pause, do they really mean it? well, i think actually, i think they do, many these european leaders, see themselves is now much frier to criticize the united states and britain now after brexit and yes they do and uh you know what's i think been going on with the genocide that we've seen over the last month of uh the 11 and a half thousand i think you said was the latest death toll uh mostly almost all civilians being killed uh completely unnecessarily because this is not achieving any kind of military aim for the uh defense forces um and that's i think why why this has been allowed to continue uh they

they have also felt pressure from political pressure from within their own countries and they also don't feel wedded as much as they were to uh the anglo-zionist empire anymore uh so that's one of the main reasons i mean also of course there've been ridiculous um inflammatory statements from the well i wouldn't call them the zionists anymore because they are many zionists are actually out on the streets protesting against this new far right government and particularly against this kind of what they what they call now the the greater israel block, including which of course is hamar ben gaver, he's one the senior ministers, national security minister there, he's saying anybody who supports palestine's right to self-defense, now they have that right in international law, anyone that supports them is a terrorist, now this is insane, it's ridiculous, but it's extremely dangerous that these poisonous ideas have been allowed to uh get to the into the heads of the those running the armed forces of israel, they're of course encouraged by uh mainly by i think

the americans, the british as well, sort of uh hanging on the american coat tails, but it's largely portrayus, i think that's been talking to the chief of staff of the israeli defense force and encouraging them, and this is what they they use as kind of cover, which is uh calling the legitimate defense of of people's right of self-defense as terrorism. actually what's going on of course by the israelis dropping bombs from the sky is itself terrorism, it's is state terrorism, and there's really no difference in one person killing another, uh, the the words are don't mean anything except that uh this is attempt to actually shut down the whole of international law and say uh, well we can just do anything we want in gaza, and really i think there's a it's a kind of elaborate land grab, they're trying to sweep the uh entire population out of the way so they can just steal. land all right now ali uh these uh antis have been ongoing across the world

in africa and europe and the western world and asia almost everywhere and uh londoners and their hundreds of thousands yesterday they marched on the us embassy not the israel this time calling for a hal to the israeli genocide so looks like that londoners have realized that the washington's complicity and role in all of this so i want to ask you what's in this war for washington. actually, i don't think there's much in this war for washington, i think that the problem with us policies in the middle east is that there isn't a us policy, there's basically a support israel policy, the united states practices policies which don't serve american interests, they practice policies which serve first and foremost israeli interests, um, joe biden, quickly there was an automatic reflexive support for. israel, he went to tel aviv, i don't think any of this was actually part of a grand plan or scheme, i think

there's what i would call a american addiction to supporting israel for various reasons, one of which is the strength of the pro israeli lobby in the us, the other is the ideological viewpoint, you know there is an ideological mindset, which i think is prevalent in washington, which basically views rightly or wrongly. israel as being the good guy, the natural allie, and it's washington's moral duty to defend israel, even at that costs american interests, i think indeed that mindset is at play and i think it's a psychological defect if you would like, which washington continues to suffer from, but you know there again, there are changes, there is a progressive camp within the democratic party, people like rashed, and even more of... some of the more mainstream democrats, for for a reason, an important reason here is that the

demographics in america are changing, the democratic party represents the minorities, meaning latinos, african americans, arab americans, all of these minorities traditionally support the democratic party, and because of these minorities, because of this spread the getting a larger presence, that puts more pressure on the democratic party to adjust its policies, now we haven't... that play out just yet, because joe biden belongs to the older generation, but i think that the more the democratic party continues, maybe to shift towards the left with the israeli government shifting more. towards the right, that is going to create a divergence, i think between the united states and israel, and you're starting to see it slightly slightly now with these voices in congress who are more and more daring and brave in challenging the pro israeli lobby in washington, right? now uh, tony, there is this division among the israeli officials regarding this war, we have

former israeli prime minister barak warning, just five, six days ago, that tell of... image, you know, is changing the world, public opinion, is turning against uh, israel, especially in the us, would netan be a type of person to head any such warning? no, i think he the man is nihalilist, i don't think he will use any kind of cover, in order to stay out of jail, effectively, but i mean it's a really good question you ask, what's in it for america, what's in it for britain to support this kind of war crime, mass war crime. genocide uh, you know, and and as i said, it is, i like to to call it very british genocide, because it was most, you know, mostly the british that created this situation in the first place, uh, you know, by uh, by the british mandate in between the two main world wars, uh, you know, so i think also though, another reason of course is the arms, arms industry, they they stand to make

a tremendous amount of money out of this, also inside the dealing, when a war takes place, enormous great shifts take. in stock markets, people can make lot of money uh on the derivatives market gambling on those big stock changes, i wouldn't put that past uh some of the uh bank banksters uh to to be betting a war um and oil prices of course fluctuate massively, if you know you're about to do something and change the price you can make lot of money on that, but then there's also this uh encouragement which has been going on now uh since i think the designers project started really of... having a religious war in the middle east with kind of fake version of judaism, which is essentially a peace-loving religion, uh, fake version, very much like the salafists uh occupied the space of islam and tried to um really just take that and weaponize it, so this is what really has been going on, i think with the israelis, they're weaponizing judaism,

they've been weaponnizing it in britain to get rid of the pro-palestinian support within the conservative and the labor party. for example, accusing them of antisemitism, and so uh, you, this religious, and one of the thing that absolutely illustrates what i'm saying, is the way that jews have been out on the streets of london protesting against the uh genocide in gaza, this is the namod group, i'm sure if you correspondents have come across, and also the neturi carter, the orthodox jews and even if you go back to the bible, you will find in the new testament, a discussion about the synagoge of... satan, so this is something which i think is is there in the literature, it's just it's a bit too hot to handle, it has been in the past anyway, and now we starting to see the weaponization of judaism against gaza, right, which is of course zinanism, which has nothing to do with semitism and all that, yeah, okay, we don't have time to discuss that, we'll leave it for another time, now ali, what's what's the plan, the million

dollar question, is telv held bent on exterminating all palestinians in gaza, be it resistance fighters or... civilians or is it going to push them out of their land, which is burning to ashes and grab that land or maybe both? before i answer that question, just quickly about the religious factor, that's a very important point because indeed, there are many american members of the elite why into this narrative of a jeudo christian alliance against muslims, even read one american military commander speaking about the american christian values, so that ideological factor, ideological, religious factor is strongly present when you want to talk about american uh support for the israeli side. as to the plan, is it to expel the palestinians or um, i'm not sure the israelis have a clear plan in that regard,

they talk about natanyahu has been making remarks all over the place, sometimes he's saying that we want to expel sometimes is saying that a prisoner swap will lead to eventually to a ceasefire, so i think the israelis are a bit in a you, kind of a mess as to what their actual goals are, but it seems to be the case that they are not yet ready uh to end this war, and that the mindset of revenge is still playing the major role, that's still what is steering this current conflict, be it from netanyahu or gallant or other senior is. official, that mindset of revenge is still center stage, and that's why i think the war is going to take some time, and even american pressures, if you can notice, i'm not sure we can call them pressures, i'm not sure. i think they half-hearted american attempts maybe, but the situation as it is doesn't look promising as to seeing an imminent end towards this war, i

think we have some time to go. okay, let's see what tony thinks about this, what's the plan? tony, this is a scorched earth policy, what do they want uh, that's land in ashes for? well, they do want the land, they most definitely do, but there are other ways of doing this, and the idea of just simply killing all the civilians. seems to me be very very very extreme, maybe they are just a bit of a hurry to grab the land, of course this has been going on ever since the creation of the israeli state and before it in fact in 1948 uh more and more land being stolen by uh the the um israeli state and the israeli defense forces of course they're not defending hard at all are they they they are in fact when they were called to defend in uh on october the 7th they didn't seem to be around they disappeared for about seven hours uh allowing much many things to go on uh which i'm sure will be looked into including this thing the hannibal doctrine where uh the israeli defense forces would even turn on their own people rather than allow them to be

taken hostage so i mean the end game seems to me to be just simply to sweep uh palestinians out of the entire gaza strip and into egypt and uh then to take the land to steal the land actually along the coast there is very beautiful and very very uh good real estate uh and uh so this is the sort of thing that the un has really got to uh come down hard on uh and i'm just amazed really that the arab states have been so restrained in not intervening further you know in a military fashion because uh you know of course the israelis are likely to take that as an excuse to to kill even more palestinians at an even faster rate uh so we we really do need uh i think that two one of two things to happen either the us or britain to uh call for a ceasefire and then i think we see the guns fall silent the... craft from the air and maybe even taking some more extreme measures like a no fly zone uh brought in by the united nations by uh states around there uh

if at all possible to stop these uh israeli aircraft and drones uh dropping dropping bombs on this area we're seeing day after day no let up in this and there has to be letup the prayers from all over the world are calling for this and there should be political and military demands to back that up okay maybe to start with actually the defunding the israel regime and also stopping sending arms to them in the first place. thank you so much for that elliesk writer and politic analysts in beirout tony gustling, historian investigative journalists in bristol and thank you for watching this episode of the spotlight, i've been your host by, i'll see you next time.

اطلع يا عم اطلع اطلع اطلع.

marine, navy, air force. make no mistake, this is not just another episode of violence between israelis and palestinians, i was deeply saden and outraged by the uh explosion at the hospital.

can i begin by saying that wars are bad for economies full stop, when government start spending money on wars, they have less money for people, calls for sease fire are calls for israel to surve. if you look at the history of the israeli entity, especially the economic history, israel is a child which been fed and bad by united states. october 7th marked new chapter in israel's.

history, they were stunned by the unexpected turn of events. now the big question is, can israel restore its shuttered image after the seismic shift in its narrative.