hello, i'm shawn murray and this is the... conversation where we take an alternative look at political events and current affairs through annary lens. in this show we hope to pick, probe, investigate and uncover the stories that you want to hear. we go where mainstream won't go. this week we look at ireland and its love affair with europe. in this post-brexit era, how has britain's departure from the eu affected the relationship between old blady and its closest neighbors. what is the future for the north of ireland? my next case is a former of member of the european part. a former

political prisoner and current senfian politician, but before we speak to our next guest, let's get a quick overview on this week's topic. a

as always we are joined by our resident co-presenter michelle gildini. michelle is the current np for firmana south torong. she has served in the northern ireland assembly as a former minister for agriculture and rural development and chair person. the

health committee amongst other things. michelle has been a shinfian activist since her teams and has been elected almost continuously since 1998. and today's guest is martina anderson. martina is woman well-known not to mense her words on the political stage. a straight shooter, some would say. after serving 13 years as an ira prisoner, martina joined shinfian where she went to become a member of the european parliament. martina anderson, welcome to the show. thank you, delighted to be here. so martina, could you tell me? about your childhood grown up in dary? i would describe it as a child of the battle of the boxside. i lived in the row houses which is now you got the iconic wall, you're now entering free dary. and by the age in of seven and 1969, there had been 14 union unionist bombs planted, electricity stations, rte, water installations and there was... six

people killed and i come from family of 10 and my older brothers and sisters had taken to the streets for one man one vote for civil rights, basic houses, jobs, what people were looking for, most modest demands one might say, and they were beat off the streets, as we all know, and it used to be written on the walls across there and across the north that the ira equaled iran away. "there was no defense, the community was crying out for people to protect us against the state that neither wanted or welcomed us, so i grew up knowing that there was something rotten at the core of uh of where i lived, i probably didn't have much of an understanding that it obviously was beyond, beyond derry, siny environment that is a child i grew up in, and all of that had happened before bloody sunday." and martina, you you then joined the

area yourself and you were then captured in england, can you tell me about your your your your caption on your your time and jeal? um, i've previously been arrested. in in um in derry and was in arma during the the second hunger strike when that started so i got bail and um i went on the run after 10 or 11 months i attended every funeral of the hunger strikers that had taken place in 1981 and between that period and the period of my arrest um we will remain blank i ended up i was arrested in in scotland um along with um ellere and three other comrades and we were charged, all of us were charged with conspiracy to cause explosions in england and pat mcgee was charged separately with the

brighton bombman, so the five of us um ended up in brixton prison, i was el and i were the only two women and the... hundred men, we didn't expect to be put on remond and brixton prison when when we rocked up that day and we were showing goodbye to the others them see them in court we expected to go to women's prison in halloway, but they they said it wasn't secure enough for us and we ended up in brixton prison, brixton prison was nightmare for 13 months, um, apart from the category a prisoners and i do have to differentiate because there were people that were... from other backgrounds and criminal backgrounds of were category a prisoners there um but they were they were carrying individuals in relation to two women being among 800 men for some of the other um criminal population um they was poling

behavior so that was for 13 months of that and then top of it uh we were strip searched it first of all began one or two. day and ended up with six strip searches every day, so it was very invasive sexual environment, you know, um, that you felt that you were held within, that both, and then as well as that, it didn't bother me as much as the body searches, you were body searched at every move you made, ella hated to touching her body, i think because we were used to, and it shows you how you probably do get used to go. going through checkpoints and whatever and being searched, but ella find that really offensive, how how they would search us and so between the body searches and the strip searches and the sexual abuse that we endured for 13 months, it was, it was near impossible

to prepare for your trial, because you're just trying to survive mentally, we knew that if we continue to react in the manner that we're reacting, that's where it was going to lead, so we kept having to council ourself. talk to herselves, talk each other and take it in the chin, that this was it, and uh, and we thought that was as bad as it was going to get until we were sentenced, and we moved from the fire in the firing pan, because we moved from brixton prison into jerm jail and martina, that sexual violence that you you and alla suffered in brixton, um, it was bad enough what you suffered at the hands for the prisoners, but tell us a way more about the strip searches, would that have been one or two people carrying those out, were there ever women involved in them, or how many, how many people would have been involved in a strip search and what, what was that like? you were put in the middle of a room and they

circled you, how many? six, six screws, and they they circled you, so when they circled you, they put you in the middle, um, like you were in a circus, six of them, six of them, and they would take off your clothes bit by bit, and they would make comments about your body. i remember one day, i literally come off a visit, i had that experience, put on my clothes and i got to the cell door and they put their hand up, this is, now we're just going to strip you again, because we're now going to do this as a cell search, i literally hadn't left the room, so we knew that they were. physically and mentally trying to break us um and it wasn't easy you know it wasn't an easy 13 months it was tough 13 months and when we got to der that was our first experience when we walked in the door

again was to be strip searched we were strip searched when we left brixton we're put into the back of a van we hadn't contact with nobody but grows and we came into derm and we were stripped again, so we continued were all our prisoners in derm with the other women prisoners strip searched or was that exclusive to you and generally speak. because we were what they regarded as high-risk category prisoners, they subjected us to more strip sauches than anyone uh in the jail either in duram or in brixton, even the men were not getting the same treatment as we were, so there was sexual connotation attached to it because it wasn't just something that they were going to apply to category prisoners regardless of if you were a male or female. just moving forward about and and then your your eventual uh release martina, you then joined senfian, was that

easy transition after all those years in jail? yeah, it was natural transition. uh, we um, we had followed the political process, the out, um, we were sent back here, transferred to prisons in ireland six weeks before the first ira cessation, i remember martin had telling me that this was part of what the... which were trying to do to send send the signal and we had we had historical meetings uh with the nc, the south africans came to long catch prison and we women and arma were brought there, we were regularly updated about the peace and political process and what was going on in negotiations as political prisoners, i was released under the terms of the good friday agreement, my husband to i married in jail, it's another. um he had subsequently uh been released after me and jack straw tried to prevent him and to

other men getting out because they were the only prisoners that were subjected to natural life, they were never to be released and so the natural carallery of me was to become involved in in chin fein, was it to be an elected rep? absolutely not, absolutely not. um and toiled with going back to university, well going to university, didn't have a university experience, but in prison i studied after having we had a whole battle in our hands to get be allowed to study and whatever, but i ended up getting a first class honors degree with an open university course, i went into jail with no academic qualifications and i come out with the number of levels and um o levels and then to university degree when we had no notions of going down and embarking upon that road, always had seen myself as an activist, but

very much as an unelected activist um until - mary nilis had stood down and i was to replace her and i refused uh to do so, i was at that stage, my position in the all ireland coordinator, i was working on that, i had been working in the assembly and and this to slag me and say, i think i'm she thinks she's missed all our. i loved being in that position and so i refused to go into the assembly and then michellim was moving into another constituency and they asked me four times to stand and i know i was not doing it and then mark mc guinness came and asked me and we all know we don't say no to martin and i worked with you and served alongside you in the assembly and um you were you were brilliant and and so hard working and so um across all the detail, but i thought you

really shown when you went to europe, you were a par house in europe and i've credited you with the reason that the europeans knew so much about ireland and the implications of brexit would have so tell us about your time as an mep, will you? um, barbara de bruden stood down in 2012 unexpectedly and for personal reasons and i had been a junior minister de martin magines and one of the responsibilities i had. europe so the party thought i knew a thing or two about europe and so did i, but i had no intentions of ever going to europe like to be an mep, so they asked me to take it on and again, one thing and another persuaded to do it, so i goes over to europe and i thought, how am i going to make this place relevant to back here, so the first you know, i i became involved and it's a lot of jargon like rapitour and all that there, you know, it's a lead mep that's in charge the file so the... product directive was something that i got my teeth into as one of the lead meps involved in that

file and it was how did i make? i always try to develop a model you know how do i make europe relevant so i bring you to europe and europe to you and it was about the amount of people that was staying from and the and took on big tobacco the big tobacco industry they hated me um i was literally i went after them and everything that they had said and the lies that they had told about the product if it was put in the market now it wouldn't come on it cuuse 50% of the people so i did that and i got an experience with um going to palestine for the first time in 2013 and i suppose. um, i would describe myself as nationalist and a and an internationalist, and you know, i, i don't think internationalism should be in any way like um, buzz word or you, a book token, you know, i do believe it's the, it's it's the fire that sort of connects community struggling,

um, for for something better, you know, across the world every day and every way, coming from our experience of conflict. in ireland and going into palestine to the partide wall, demolitions, all that was taking place and the definint silence of the international community appalled me, and i had an opportunity in 2013 to in ramala to be at there was a trunch of prisoners being released, there was 26 prisoners being released and i stood to right into the middle the morning waiting on the prisoners to come out, i remember crying. you know just watching their families and everybody just you know just the emotion of it. so that's children as i call them the tory party was engaging in a conversation um publicly about referendum and palinoid of the eu. we knew that this was bigger than them claiming to just take back control. we knew that this was

about our rights our entitlements and this was going to dismantle the good friday agreement. and elements of the good friday agreement um if this went ahead so the referendum there was the remain and the leave and it was two sides the same cone because it was the conservatives fighting among themselves and we didn't officially take part as you know in any of the official campaigns but we had our own remain campaign and we fought that here to explain to people why it was important that we be in the eu, we couldn't have some kind of hoky cokey arrangement the part of herland was in the eu part of ireland would be out of the eu, that the good friday agreement strand to the good friday agreement, the all ireland element of it about alignment across this island, the the whole issue of the economy, the all ireland economy could not operate as it had been designed to do in the good fraid agreement if we were out of the eu, and thankfully in in constituencies after

constituency we won the referendum in terms of not weak fameing the people uh that was involved everyone in romania. but we know that in britain, in britland they decided in england that they wanted to leave and scotland wanted to remain, so in europe after the referendum, the first thing happened was the first week, there was the european council and ende kanny went over to the european council and he wax ligal about scotland, how scotland had had a referendum and how the british government had told them if they leave the uk that they wouldn't have a place in europe and how europe had said that, but he was brave heart about scotland and faint heart about ireland, he never mentioned us, now he was teashock going into a council meeting, and mep after mep would

come up to us and they asked us time out of number, will it be another referendum in scotland? nobody was taking us on, they didn't give a fleet glance the british to this and neither did europe because europe didn't understand the good friday agreement any of its parts, so i was the chair, i was the head of the chimpan delegation and one night uh we knew we had to do something to try to be heard, and one night to empty chamber, nobody in billy, no mates, myself and matt carthy sitting there, nobody else in the... all and i get up and used language that wasn't parliamentarian as they would say in terms of it should be used, but told she is a man that what she could do with her border and she could stick it with a sun doesn't chain that she wasn't putting it here and told the eu that what armor cars and tanks and guns couldn't do here that the eu wasn't going to be able to do to the border

in ireland because there are 310 crosens here and if they thought that they were going to be able to put up what the irish establishment started to present which was a swiss border type arrangement so they were saying bring the border down south more into the southmore but that's where the checks would be done so they were proposing all of these other kind of arrangements and we had develop the special status for the north to remain within the eu. i went to me that night that was it and woke the next day to shin fein telling me. don't answer your calls to any of the media, the phone, so i was had speaking time the next morning again and again it was about brexit, so i'm done and i remember my sister, she was scrubbing the floor, she says: the house and she says nolen was going besser about what i had said the night before i didn't know this and she says the next thing nolen said oh she's on she's on her feet again let's go live and she says

your first words out of your mouth that morning was we didn't start the war the war came to us and she said oh no she's going to be in real baller now um so the next thing across europe they all wanted to understand you know in france and italy and spain and in germany, why was this irish mep standing up in the european parliament, saying that to a pretty prime minister? no, that's not what you saw to do, so we couldn't, we couldn't cope with fire, i couldn't for the volume of bids that was coming at myself, and matt and i shared the and we got to explain the peace process, got to explain the good friday agreement, got to explain the fact that you couldn't have this swiss style border, that the irish was you, in people's brains on that this might work that you can have something similar here and that we are we are in ireland and ireland economy with the goodfraid agreement strant to the good fraid

agreement and bengal they just went to and we have a problem. this week we take a look at brexit, a concept presented with great hope for the british public, but what went wrong? was this major miscalculation on the part of patriotic politicians or a more sinister? attempt by few to enrich themselves while making economic sleeves of the working class for many years to come. in 2016, the uk voted to leave the eu, its closest and biggest trading partner, before officially leaving the trading block on the 31st of january 2020. during the referendum campaign, vote lave made series of pledges about what would happen if britain voted to quit the eu and negotiated new relationship. after the brexit process claimed two prime ministers, foate. ended up running the uk government, its figure head, boris johnson and his top advisor dominic commons, leading the charge for change, but what was promised and what was gained? if we look at some of the key

promises, including trade deals, the ni border with ireland, indian supremacy of eu law, taking control of the immigration issue and the 350 million promise to the nhs, we are only led to one conclusion, the british public have been had, recent study by the london school of economics found that brexit was responsible for about a third of uk food price inflation since 2019, adding nearly 7 billion to britain's grocery bill. post brexit and the persistent poverty rate for the uk was 7.8% the eight lowest in the european union and 3.5% points lower than the eu 28 average rate of 11.3%. all this while the wealth of the uk's billionaires has skyrocketed by over 1,00% between 1990 and 2022, ballouning by around 600 billion. the number of billionaires exploded from 15 in

1990 to 177 this year. between 2020 and 2022 alone, billionair wealth increased by almost 150 billion. why the working class pick up the pieces yet again, it seems that some have never had it better. you're still tuned into the conversation, your weekly alternative probe of political. and current affairs through anoric lens. i'm joined by my co-host michelley alongside our special guest, senfian politician, martina and martina, it's difficult not to mention the current inpass at stormment, um, some parties have have blamed brexit and the disagreements around the protocol, but how do you see that stealmate and how do you think brexit has changed the political landscape here? well, whilst brexit has been an unmitigated disaster. um, the dup's handling of it, i think for their own constituency and from where they're coming at this from, um, in

terms of wanting to maintain the union, um, i think that they will go down in history as being the people that has successfully broke it up from inside out. well, martina, it's always good seeing you, we want to thank you for coming on the show uh, and we look forward to seeing you again. thank you, thank you, and that does it for. another week, we'd love for you to join the conversation by sharing the link to today's program to help us grow our audience across all our social media platforms. i'd like to thank our special guest, martina anderson and our resident co-host michelle gildernew. in the meantime, the conversation will be back next week with more investigations and analysis. i'm sean murray, bye for now. on november 16th, the commander of the islamic revolutionary guard course quads force brigadier general ismail khahani. sent

a public letter to hamas. the letter took the headlines right away. but what was the letter all about? what is its significance? why was it published at this time? and how should it be read without missing point? these and more on this edition of iran today. you see, it's not just about islam, it's not just about muslim leaders, it's about humanity, it's about the right to live, we cannot be panafricanist if we can't.

associate with the oppressed nation, issuing immediate arrest warrant for key decision makers, including mr. netanyahu, who is responsible for violations of international criminal law.

the headlines: fatari foren minister as a mediator in the war in gaza, says the truths in the besieged territory will take effect at 5 gmt on friday. israel presses ahead with the steady air strikes on the gaza strip despite agreeing to a temporary truth. and people have held rallies around the world to express their support for palestinians in the gaza strip and the occupied west bank.