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two months into israel's ethnic cleansing of palestinians in gaza, more than 16,00 people dead, 70% of them women in children, more than half of the buildings raised, infrastructure and ruins, few hospitals with inadequate facilities hardly operating, and that means all the four internationally known crimes have been committed in gaza in the past two months, genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression. iran and some other countries are calling for. traiters to be brought to justice, welcome to the spotlight, i'm your hostruz, and these are our guests in this edition of the program. zakar, i'm a tamat atorney, activist, and polike analyst in johannesburg, daniel shaw academic and

political commentator, joining us out of new york. all right, welcome to the... so gentlemen, let me start with the zakar. zakar, you're you're a lawyer, so uh, iranian foreign minister, others also world leaders are calling for perpetaties to be brought to justice, some of them are saying that these really war criminals, of course, they have committed all crimes, they should be taken to the international criminal court, so tell us uh, what measures are necessary to be taken for this to happen? well, there needs to be a... referral by the palestinian state, the problem right now is that there are pending dockets at the icc so that the previous prosecutor had resided over whether or not palestine could in fact a logic complaint and the determination, the preliminary

determinations were that indeed palestine could move forward, however there is a duplicitous role that is been played by the palestinian authority, part of the... agreements would be that it would subject itself to the laws of israel and would abandon international law mechanisms and the palestinian authority and it's quite clear and literature that they have been reluctant to renage on the undertakings of oslo, this has become the highly problematic and controversial aspect within the international law framework. however, the the best option and this has been utilized and explored by south african legal minds and there has been an aspect of lawfaire is to apply something called universal jurisdiction, where a government can exercise its own jurisdiction and to prosecute individuals that have deemed to commit international crimes such as crimes

against humanity, war crimes, genocide, the lives that we are seeing today, and charge them in terms of local jurisdictions, that's the more practical approach, because the icc has just become ineffective, you've seen how they drag their feet with regards to the united states, with regards to israel, with regards to great britain, and they have found it extremely easy to move on issues of you. and russia, we see the double standard, and therefore it comes down to individual states to to hold israel and its support is account. okay, now danielle, in your opinion, what does it take for israel criminals and of course their american and maybe european accomplice is to be brought to justice? i have absolutely zero faith in the united nations or the international criminal court, these uh bodies have never done anything to stop. us aggressions and military interventions across the world from panama to iraq, from libya to syria to grenada and on

and on. we're trying to educate the people here in the us, i really a moral level, a personal level, a spiritual level, i don't understand, many of my colleagues, friends, neighbors, family members, uh, when have we seen uh over 70 journalists murdered so far, over 100. five un workers murdered in gaza as well, 1.5 million people displaced in a tiny ghetto that continues to be uh carpet bombed, this is not a political issue, this is human issue, but many people here are so afraid buse we are attacked and we're doxed and we're threatened and they say that we're anti-semitic and we're anti-jewish just buse we stand up against the genocide, against the holocaust of human life, 1.1 million children have they had access in the past 59 days to water, to clean water, to electricity, to to,

this is david versus genocidal goliath, i personally am a loss to explain how us society continues to allow this to happen. right, and zakar, let's get down to some uh legal details, what's the punishment for such crimes, for war crimes being committed for crimes against humanity, crime of aggression, genocide, all the four crimes. "the crimes, the crimes are are not in tandom over the punishment, the punishment is long-term imprisonment, we have seen sentences handed down between five to 20 years, i think the maximum that we've seen is approximately 30 years, but as mr shaw correctly states, we are watching a genocide taking place, we are truly witnessing the extermination of an entire population that is being live streamed, and the..." the punishment of 5, 10, 15 years for the lives that are being

extinguished is not conventional, therefore there needs to be a reconsideration of the global structure, and i think mr. show is rightly stated this, is that the world has seen that these international mechanisms have been ineffective, they have not been a buffer to the aggressions that have been meeted out by global powers and the... definitely not been a buffer to the aggressions meeted out towards the palestinian palestinians by israel, so yes, this is the legal perspective, however i believe that we are sitting a different crossroads now where the global south has in indicated that they are very uncomfortable with the current status quo. south africa has been one of the countries that has officially expressedly through our foreign minister naleypando and the african union and they have. that there needs to be a restructuring of the entire global system, the veto power has clearly

been abused to protect the genocide of israel by the united states, that has been the big brother protecting israel from all forms of condemnation and international accountability, and this cannot continue, this cannot persist. right, daniel, we had this report by amnesty international today, saying that us made weapons killed 19 kids, 14 women and 10 men attack on two homes, this is only one instance of course, it was in wadi gaza in october 13th, and this amounts clearly to uh war crimes, so where are those western leaders? top of the americans who are always braging about human rights and all that jazz, that's exactly what it is, all that jazz, all that rhetoric, all that propaganda against china, against russia, against iran, against venezuela, but who are the true murderers, who are the true genocides, who are the true human rights abusers and when we try to raise our voices

here in the west, here in the belly of the beast, we are censored, we are threatened, our twitter accounts, are are shut down, we're we're we're shadow band, we're a loss, we're in the streets every day trying to tap into what humanity is left here uh in in the united states, we wake up with anxiety, with genocidal anxiety, and the south african lawyer has laid out the legal basis to prosecute all of these war criminals from herzog to netanja, to joe biden, to loy, to austin, to anthony blincon, in the role of cnn, and the role of... snbc, never mind, the the right wing and and fox who do everything they can to cheer on this holocaust of human life, so we're up against very, very powerful uh enemy, and i think it's revealing to the world uh, just how sick, just how genocidally sick us capitalism in their bastard offspring zionism, which they have weaponized now for

75 years to do their bidding in the middle east, because this violence is not just against 2.3 civilians, in the ghaza strip, in this tiny ghetto, every day, whenever they want to, they strike iraq, they strike syria, they strike lebanon, zionism in the us backers, they have a card blanch to do whatever they want in the middle east, so we're we're pleading with all of humanity, how can we stop this genocidal madness? now zakar, uh, unicep also saying, of course they they're good at giving reports at least, they're not able to take any action, but they're... condemming this and they are also sometimes reflecting some facts like uniceff saying that safe zones that americans are thanking israely forces for recently because for giving a warning to move to other places to safe zones. okay, safe zones, uniceff is saying in their own words, they're not scientific, they are not rational, they're not possible. there is no place which is

safe. where should the people in gaza go? the idea of safe zone, safe corridors is a complete fantasy, there has been clear footage that has indicated that the led safe corridor along salahdin road, the main road within gazzah has been targeted numerous times by israeli snipers and tank fire, the attempt to portray safe zones or united nations facilities, anaros facilities within gazza as places of safety and security have been rubbished when we at the number of strikes, dr. matz gilbert, the norwegian doctor, was tour in south africa and provided a shocking statistic that 47% of those that were killed were killed in the south, the alleged safe zone, what is happening is a propaganda game that is played with the united states, we've noticed that very clear pattern that has developed every time anthony

blincon enters the region, you have escalation, increasing ferocity and a change in weaponry that results in the dismemberment, the death and the permanent disability of the palestinian people and skills that we have not seen before, so this is just fantasy, yes, there is no safe place in gaza, there was a old human rights report that indicated the same thing with the same title, no safe place, this is a tactic of israel, only this time israel has been given card blanch to proceed and exterminate the entire palestinian population, we have been in contact with the leader that has been visiting south africa, both hamas, hisball, jihad, and they have all said the same thing that we are heading towards the the situation of a complete eradication of the population of hazza and this will lead to a regional war and not just a regional war, but a global war. this is highly problematic and this is

exactly what it is, propaganda and it's being exposed a daily basis by media houses such as yourselves, press tv. and the alternative right? now daniel, international organizations, the rights bodies, including doctors without borders, who, they're calling for something, obvious for protection of civilians, medical staff, journalists, and of course, they are warning against force displace of the people, what could justify the king of these people, journalists, doctors, nurses, paramedics, there's absolutely no justification, all of these humanitarian organizations for 59 days straight have been warning that this is genocide that we're watching in in in slow motion and accelerated genocide. i mean, all we hear about here in the west is october 7th, hamas, now they're using all of the uh colonial, anti-arab tropes that hamas are

rapists, they presented basically very little con concrete proof, yeah we hear from the palestinians who are uh being released from israeli prisons, that they have endured uh sexual abuse, um, certainly. huge part of war is is is is is the informational war, the media war, but here in the belly of the beast in the united states, who owns cnn, who owns the new york times, who owns msnbc, who owns brightbart news, who owns the full gamet of corporate uh media outlets, so we don't have a way of reaching people, if this is not censorship, what is it, if this is not fascism, uh uh, what is it, but the whole world is watching, how could... any citizen the world, the eight billion people of the world, from nigeria to the philippines to to algeria to the middle east, to south america, who can very plainly see, this is david, who

only has slingshot in the in the bricks and stones from the rubble that is crumbled down on his head, on the heads of how many tens of thousands of children, to say that 16,00 or 17,00 palestinians are are dead, is ridiculous, there's not one hospital that's been left functioning, are standing, it's very clear to anyone who studied any amount of history that the zionist plot, the israeli plot is the extinction, it's the extermination of all life in gaza so they can expand greater israel, and why isn't, why aren't our people speaking out about this, what does it take to tap into the humanity of people in the united states? exactly, and zakar, gaza is being wiped off the map practically, so what's the? policy do you agree with what daniel said definitely, i think we are traveling in the same direction in both our thoughts and our emotions, the

principle of israel is that of ethnic superiority, and the only way that israel can establish that is to eliminate the palestinian population, the ethnic superiority principle is based on demographic control and by eliminating the ghazan population, that is why you see the graffiti that is being sprayed by israeli soldiers, we are returning to hazza, we are going to reestablish, these are the types of genocidal messages that are being shared, the attempt right now is to push the palestinian people into the sin, trying to bribe egyptian authorities and the egyptian leadership by wiping out it, i think it's a... about 160 billion, there's attempts to do the same with turkey 400 billion, and this is to buy their silence and to buy their consent, this will

not be allowed, and i think this is a problem in the analysis, this will not be allowed by islam, the resistance access, it will not be allowed by hiz allah, it will not be allowed by ansar allah, it will not be allowed from the brothers of the pmu, popular mobilization units and i highly doubt. that the islamic republic of iran will remain silent on this and remain on the sidelines, yes they haven't been on the front line of the attacks and has been pmu has done what they had to do and i i think that it will inevitably draw the entire region to a massive war and yes already we are sitting a global war scale, the united states, the uk, germany, france, everyone is part of the war at the moment, so i think that's the direction we going to. uh, that's all the time we have, thank you so much, attorney activists and political analysts in johannesburg, daniel, academic and commentator in new york, thank you for

watching this episode of the spotlight, being your hostruz, i'll see you next time.

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