hello, i'm chris williamson and you're watching palestine declassified, we're only weekly tv show focusing on investigating and exposing the israeli regime's global war against solidarity with the illegally occupied people of palestine. in this week's show we're looking at the relentless and unfinching determination of the palestinian people to throw off the... of zist

depression, the sadistic brutality of zianist military goons and the savage behavior of illegal settlers have completely failed to block the will the palestine people to resist. has been looking at the first interfada when the people rose up against israel's military occupation of the west bank and the gaza. the first interfather or upriding began in december 1987 (36 years ago) it ended in september 1993 with the signing of the first oslo. records which provided a framework for so-called peace negotiations with the palestinians. the failure of that press is visible for all to see today. in the first inter, israeli brutality was abundantly demonstrated. palestines were casualties at the ratio of more than 3 to one. one new departure were the orders from the top to break the bones of protesters. was exposed in famous footage broadcast on mainstream news networks the world over. israeli colonel was tried for his part in these crimes. he blamed then defense

minister yitshat rabin who gave orders in january 1988 to break bones of protesters as punishment. rabin claimed it was only to bring them under control. either way, rabin's orders had gone out via the israeli press where he was saying will break their bones. may admitted ordering beatings, but said, "i feel like they abandoned me and threw me to the dogs." he reportedly began to cry minutes later and asked for a recess, though eventually guilty of brutality, the highest ranking. ios soldier convicted on that charge. he avoided prison and was only stripped of his rank discharged as a private. second departure was the use of uncovered descords in gazza and the west bank, codenamed shimshom and devan, officially of known as unit 367 and unit 217. operating in arab dress in the period until 1992, they executed more than 100 palestinians. unit 367 was later disbanded, but unit 217 remains.

active in the west bank, the start of the interfather is dated to 9th of december 1987, just like october 7th this year, the conflict did not begin and the proximal causes were intensified ethnic cleansing, land expropriation and settlement construction, increasing z repression, the emergence of new layer of palestinian activists who challenged the leadership of the plo. we should not forget the striking reconfiguring of october the 7th alad operation in the night of gliders in which two palestinian gorillas used handlies. to infiltrate the northern border and kill six occupation force operatives on 20th of november 1987. the gorillas were immortalized in many palestinian posters and images produced in commemoration. the hang gliding attack is held from the popular front, the liberation of palestine, which is one of the key gorilla groups engaged in the alaxa flood in gaza. key difference between then and now is today's unity of the field in which all the of major factions collaborate closely in armed actions against the occupation. as always,

we're joined by our resident expert david miller. david is academic and a former professor at briston university and is now a non-resident senior research fellow at the islam global affairs at istanbul university. he's also a cdirector of lobby and watchdog watch and the leading critic of israel. i guess today is the palestinian doctor, activist, academic and write dr. gardha karmi. gardha was born in jerusalem and forced from trained as a medical doctor and established the first british palestinian medical charity in 1972. she was also... associate fellow at the royal institute for international affairs and a books include the bestselling memoire in search of fatima. welcome to the show. let me start with you. i mean, you were forced out of palestine in 1948, weren't you, and then we the occupation of gaza and west bank from a far in 1967. i wonder whether you could just recall how you felt at the time of the first interfada. well, i had, of course, i had already become an activist following the 1967 war. because

it was the first time i remember that began to understand what israel was about, and it was very clear to me from that day on that what they were about was occupying the rest of palestine and that that's what they wanted. and the first father was so hopeful, it was wonderful moment for all of us who had felt kind of sense of despair as you know living through the 70s in britain uh israel's becoming more and more accepted and it was becoming more and more quote normalized and you know so we we started to feel a bit hopeless that you know and then comes the first in the father and you think of we didn't know it was first and anti father and which and which reasserts that there there a palestine people and they are not willing to accept what uh is has been scripted for them by israel and western b and by the way in any discussion we have we have al remember israel

would not be israel if it were not for west support absolutely well david i mean you've been involved in the propostinian activism quite. time now you were first got involved and you in the question of palestine joined that first interfoder in 1987 and think after seeing those beating wasn't it of those palestinian protesters? yes, one of the first things ever did in pro palestin think of it as that then was when we saw the breaking of the bones, famous footage of that, and then the bbc reported one of the soldiers who had been arrested for the bring of the bones, being shown home, released custody to his boots and it was welcome the gentle giant who was returning to the boosm of his family and we were just outraged at this at the time i was working at the university media group not even hd student by that stage and we went into something called video box there was several around the country uh where channel 4's right to reply program one of the key

benefits of the creation of channel 4 in terms of democratizing the media where you could go and you can make a 30 seconds about something went i think crammed into this box it's outraged should refer to horrific tortures has been gentle giant, the bbc should we have proper courage of this, so that was one of my first of education about way in which propagandas in relation to tottentially, and of course it's moved on our pace since then of course, but i mean how was the zine regimes oppressive techniques changed since the 1980s when they officially sanction the kind of bring punishment beatings and these undercover assassinations, well we've got worse, they don't bother to break people's boats. they should dead, so that is become it is amaming that the idea, a spectacle of solders, shooting palestinians, killing them, yes, right, has become so part the normal landscape, and that's so very frightening about all this is violence, which

was there right from the start, and you mention that i was victim of the nack in 1948, the point about that nakba as as and the same point today is the... is the violence that accompanies inism and so that violence meant that moving on from breaking bones simply shoot the people dead, no indeed, indeed, it's much more visible isn't it than been in the past with the advent social media, more more are aware of the what the ism, the reality of zionism is, but david, mean the first interfada concluded is it with the with the oslow records, many people at the time i think thought this was the beginning of viable peace process, but as it turned out that was just wish for thinking, wasn't it? yes, if you recall in that period - we had the irish peace process, the south african peace process, we had mandela released from prison, it looked like this is part of a general tendency in the world to move towards resolving political

conflicts, of course that was a mistake, we see now nothing of the sort was happening, and in fact of course what happened was the plo had recognized this entity and had also renounced effectively armed resistance. against design identity and that of course to the marginalizing of the of authority of course the authority as it is and which collaborates directly with the zionists to repress the palestinian resistance movement, but it meant that the power in in the resistance shifted away from plo and especially from faction in the plo and towards more openly islamically orienteds especially islamic jihad, but also the let's remember the the the secular. leftist faction like the dflp which are which are of course all all these factions at the center of the resistance yeah mean in your opinion what was the problem with with the low process? well well there was nothing right with it actually it is full of problems the first the first

issue is that the um palestinian side offered a recognition of israel within the borders of the borders. which meant that he kept 78% of the original land of palestine recognized their right to that, while actually getting very little in return, because what they actually got was the recognition. on the part of israel of the palestine liberation organization as movement that represents the palestinians okay, good, but it's not good enough, there was nothing, people really need to remember, there was nothing in the agreement which made it mandatory that the israel would move toward assisting in the creation of a palestine state, that was never overtated, it was something that the palestinians sort of assumed. assumed and lots of other people assumed, but had no right to assume it because it wasn't in the accords and secondly, what it really did was

to sort of give a structure to the idea of autonomy and autonomy in certain spheres, it was around for for ages, the egypt israel treaty 1979 and already was something which the israel side was willing to agree to, well that's what o did, it allowed for autonomy, but for things like health education, civil society type things, but not for defense and not for freedom of movement, so it it all it really did was give, if i think the best way to put it, it it it presented a sort of feel good, yes thing to other people, well well well just leave it there if we can't for moment because i want to come back to the discussion while after you've had a chance to

look at our next video uh the genesis of hamas. the term hamas is an acronym:ama, which translates into english simply asamic resistance movement. resistance is, in other words, literally part of its name. hamas was effectively born as a direct result of the spark that lit the flame of the first. people who created at the day after the occupation forces killed four palestinian workers by crashing into their car at the gaza checkpoint. leaflett issued on december the 14th, calling for resistance is considered their first public intervention, though the name hamas itself was not used until early 1988. like its key ally in the palestinian resistance, the islamic jihad movement in palestine, usually called palestinian islamic jihad or pij, in the west, hamas was formed. from the muslim brotherhood, though the brotherhood was politically at the time, both hamas and islamic jihad became more radical,

seeking to challenge the dominance of fatah, the secular nationalist group, then head monic amongst the palestinians. this task became all the more central ones fata accepted existence of the state of israel and renounced arm struggle. looking back, it is clear that the first interfada was a fork in the road between those who believed compromise could lead to progress and those who maintained only. distance could win. hamas was formed one month after a pl led declaration advocating coexistence with the zinanis entity early 1988. after oslo and then the gaza withdrawal in 2005, hamas entered and won the elections in gaza, became the facto government. the armed wing of hamas, the izaldin al khasim brigade has been branded as a terrorist organization more than 20 years. in late 2021, the uk moved to ban hamas in total. including a political ring. since the launch of alax flood on october 7,

there has been a propaganda war over the role of hamas in the resistance in the idea that hamas was created or supported by the zionists. this misunderstands the history by confusing the support given by the zionist to the politically quietest brother in order to undermine the more radical plo with the more militant politics associated with hamas. later when ariel sharon attempted to liquidate the pillow, hamas. did benefit, but its victory in the 2006 election marked the realization of the zionist that it had become their main enemy. since then there were periods when the various factions of resistance were at all with each other, but in the most recent years all the resistance factions have made peace and work as one. did you just say a word to will you about the muslim brotherhood in palestine? so the muslim brotherhood of course is a transnational movement if you like with independent parts and in the uk and of course it's been very much targeted in this country,

for example is investigation uh under the cameron government which is prompted by zis interesting for that investigation to try to suggest that muslim brotherhood were terrorists, of course muslim brother is not a terrorist organization and in this country it's politically active in has been active very important country, but in palestine there are two step facts. radical that to this entity because we were engaged in the struggle, whereas the muslim brotherhood were not, split from muslim brotherhood which led both to had which of course is more radical smaller of the movements today and of course hamas and once they became the radical cutting edge of resistance, that's when the the idea of using them to undermine the plo became something which designers didn't want to do, and of course that's the story was not

created by by the idea that it's a cat's power west. interest is a is fantasy and people in the palestine movement should abandonn any such beliefs and understand the resistance in palestine is is serious resistance against not just design sentity but against west interest and imperialism in the whole region yeah you might just say something about the evolution of of your thinking on resistance well look it was always very clear to me from the very from the suppose from the very beginning of my activism or my awareness that that we'd have to fight to get our country back, it was always very clear to me that whatever name you wanted to give it, the the the end result had to be the reclamation of palestine and all of it for the palestinians and that those palestinians like myself, the millions living in un registered refugee camps, all those

people had the right to go back and claim their homeland, it was always very clearly. that that was the aim, so the next question was, how do we get that? and i was really willing to support anything um that al anything that would look as if it might get us that. yeah, that different, i never had a sort of a and i think many palestins are like didn't sort of think, oh we only support this if it's religiously motivated or if it's this kind of thing or that kind of not really. "i think it's much simpler than that for palestinians, they just want to get the country back and they'll back whatever it is that looks likely get us there, now having said that, i i can't guys the fact that i was never keen on religious type resistance movements, because i always felt that they

missed the point. the point about palestine is not religion, it's sept of land, it's very simple." so really you have to get hold of the see and out and get r back, so you don't need religion as motivating factor. however, i have to say that over time and observing the way that not only hamas, but hezballah in lebanon has fought uh their resistance wars so not only bravely but so cleverly is very impressive and if and in the end i ended up by saying and not only me, but many others like me, by saying, well, if it takes religion to get you to function like this, indeed. david, i think one of the important takeaways from the video that we just watched is that it controdicts it those who claim that hamas was created by zionists? i mean, i

think this is a mistake that you saw in the film there clip for the intercept making that kind of argument, but there been many other. kinds of arguments like that and and you you see i've seen lots of people tweeting little cuttings from hets with yahoo talking about supporting us, it's a mistake, it's a misunderstanding, of course what what we see is the the attempt on parts of the left i think to to misunderstand the resistance in palestine and and to think because of because the horror that we currently are seeing because of the dead children, the bombing of the buildings, the raising of gas, people think... that means that the palestinians can do nothing, their only choice is to is to stay in the homes and die or to leave into this, which of course is design strategy indeed, but actually what what we see if we pay close enough attention is there has been really very significant resistance in gaza and of course in in bank of course also on the northern b from hisb very very serious resistance which has had really significant effects on the the occupation forces and

we're not seeing much of the western media, but if you're paying attention to social media to tell a lot. stuff and that that is it's the mistakes to think that that isn't happening actor in in this whole period, it is very significant actor, we would never have had changes for the the palestinian hostages in israeli jails if it wasn't for that, of course, of course, what do you say to those who insist that we condemn hamas, mean morgan is a guess on and talking about this issue, first as will you can hamas, what should the response be to, it's good to bring this up because it's really infuriating, you you are being asked a very important question, and before you out to answer, you have first to make this declaration, i condemn hamas, well no, the the the the... really the pr answer to that is, this is not a question of condemnation, it's a question of trying to understand why people behave like this, what makes them do that? that's

what really that it has to uh face this issue of this word condemn, you know, and the other way to deal with it, which is not original to me, but it's it's it's perfectly correct is to ask the the person asking one this question, "when did you last condemn an israeli spokespon or representative for the actions of israeli army? there's a good response i saw on social media where somebody was asked about an administration, what about october the 7th? said, well, what about october the 8th, what about oc the ninth, what about october 11? try to walk away, so answering the question yet going on and then he was what about you every day back to 1948, so yeah, i think you're absolutely right, we do need to to push back back against, but we are out of time." so that's it for another show. i'd like to thank our guest, dr. garder comy and of course our resident expert professor david miller. classified, we'll be back next week with more forensic investigations analysis and in time you can

follow the show on facebook, twitter and telegram where we post regular clips and remember to share today's program on your social media platforms. so until next time, this is chris williamson saying bye. we live in a densely populated. area and suffered from severe shirt of portable water, one element of it was leaving the israeli water company in charge of all the water

resources the israeli national water company that's responsible for stealing water in palestine. وافق صدام على كل قرارات الامم المتحده وعلى كل ما تريده الولايات المتحده لكان قد اطيح به كان المفروض عندما يسقطون النظام يسلمون الدوله المعارضه هم اسقطوا النظام والدوله معا وسلموا المعارضه صراع على السلطه اول من وجه ضربه للامريكان في العراق هي

news in brief for this hour in its latest attacks on gaza strip military talking to the home and jabalya refugee camp in the north of the besieg territory killing at least 39 people, nearly 18,00 people have been killed and over two months of israely attack on gaza. palestinian resistance fighters say they are inflicting heavy losses on invading israely occupation. troops in the besieg gaza strip the military wing of hamas says it's ambushed israel forces in the jabalia refugee camp in the northern gaza strip number ofs were killed injured there the un secretary

general deployed