is sustainable sessation of hostilities. hello, welcome to the spotlight. i'm the us genocidal war has passed the grim milestone of over 20,000 deaths, yet the us is postponing a un session for a possible ceasefire over semantics. this is while the israeli prime minister has threatened again that the genocidal war will not stop until hamas is eliminated. now in this edition of the spotlight we will look at where this war is heading, whether the us is worried that israel's. loss will reflect negatively

actually its own power in the face of the resistance groups in west asia such as hezbollah. first let me introduce our guests. paul rudy co-founder of the free palestine movement joins us from berkeley. also joining us is eve zangler, author and political activist from montreal. welcome to you both paul and rudy, i'll first start with. we're looking at the third time that the us has rejected this resolution uh, the last time i checked uh, thursday has started in new york, uh, i don't what time it is where you are, but i think it's where new york has to get together and for them to actually go through this. i'm looking at how every minute counts when it comes to this genocidal war. at the same time we're looking at semantics here. i think it's over cessation, uh, that is the problem for the us, they are opting for suspension uh. do you think, how do you view

and assess the way that the us is uh positioning itself here when it comes to uh the un, which could result maybe in a possible cease fire? temporary one of that? well, i'm not sure it's just about the semantics, it's also, i think uh, from what i've heard about the question of distribution and who supervises it and who controls it, and um it the uh uh the the the ones who proposed this, the the uae and the other nations that are involved in drafting it uh want the united nations to be uh responsible for this, and i suspect that israel wants more control over where the aid goes and specifically, they don't want it to to go to northern gaza ' whereas whereas the drafters

of the resolution and the palestinians are saying no, it must be open to all of gaza, so that that there may be more to it than than we know, we're not, we can't possibly be told everything about the negotiations that are happening behind happening behind the scenes. well, from the statements that are coming from israel, it may somewhat be confusing uh, because we have for example, isaac herzo has said that they are ready and prepare for another seasfire, but at the same time uh the israeli prime minister netanyao is that the war would not end while hamas controls gaza and there's no talk of reducing the intensity, at least not in the coming weeks. what is your view about first of all this uh even the notion of a cease fire given that israel last time around once it ended killed so many palestinians and this time around a... based on the way that uh we're seeing

that for for for it to have not happened already, but the way the prime minister is talking about it. yeah, well i would presume that israel is is being preparing itself or preparing to try a similar type quote unquote cease fire or humanitarian pause or whatever we want to call what happened few weeks ago, and they're under lot of pressure internally. to uh get more of the hostages uh back uh and they're also under pressure internationally to allow uh humanitarian aid in and also to to slow down in the in the killing uh so that's what i think the israelis you know are sort of preparing for and they're trying to of course get the best deal they can make with you giving up giving up as few palestinians as they've uh they've kidnapped

uh in exchange for those uh that uh hamas has in gaza uh, but i think the broader issue here is is that or what netan yahoo is speaking to is that uh the the the murderous forces in in charge of israel want to be able to keep killing palestinians, so whether whether that stops for a week and then continues for many months after or uh some or just continues on without stopping for you, even a couple days, um, that's clearly what netanyahu wants, it's all framed as you know ending hamas or or destroying hamas, um... that may be, you think they would probably like that in some sort of theoretical sense of obviously killing as many hamas officials and getting as many high high officials of hamas as possible, but really this is this is about um, this is about destroying palestinian life in in gaza, and and hamas is

is just a sort of justification for this effort at destroying palestinian life in gaza, hopefully from the zinanis perspective, ethnically cleansing palestinians and um and they know of course that this level of killing that they're doing is is just making palestinians even more um angry and hateful towards israel and so the you know even if they were to destroy hamas uh there's going to be much more hostile uh resistance that's going to develop uh over the over the coming years well i mean we we're looking at about 75 days of this uh war to have transpired so far, paul rudy, if you were to take a look at the accomplishments on the israeli side when it comes to the battlefield, i'm not too sure what they can show for it, one of the things that stands out obviously at the top of the list, which is not an accomplishment, is the fact that uh 20,00 plus palestinians have been murdered, so if it if the purpose is to

defeat hamas, it this this is going to take a long time, i mean i'm no military analyst, but is that, i think israel knows that that's not going to happen, but it's still selling... that notion, who are the buyers? um, very few people, i think buy the idea that they're fighting hamas, they're fighting the palestinian people, and they want to see the palestinian people disappear as eve has alluded to, and they are, they want to see them disappear at least from the land where they are, if they go to other countries, that's fine with with the israelis, but actually... "i think the they would prefer to see them disappear from the face of the earth, this is genocide, this is ethnic cleansing, and i think that actually the the death toll is far greater than what is commonly broadcast, it's much more than

20,00, there may be between 5 and 10,00 that are not counted because they don't have the names, hamas, the hamas." in gaza, the the health ministry is keeping names of all all them so that they can show that the they are in fact 20 thousand of them, but there are so many for whom they don't have the names because they're buried underneath the the rubble and they they were children were trapped underneath the rebel, maybe maybe staying alive for a while, but then then dying in in terror and and pain ' and and we don't hear about those, but what about also the ones that are dying as a result of the sealing of of the borders and the lack of food and the lack of medication and the disease that's happening because of his real fax, we don't even get statistics on on

people who are dying of diseases and starvation that we we don't see, so the the the numbers are much greater than that and and uh and it it will become much greater if they don't get food and medical care. you know jake sullivan, the national security advisor of the us visited israel recently of zengler, i'm sure you're well aware of that uh one of the things that uh he um said uh is the fact that uh israel's israel needs to transition uh from high intensity to low intensity um which uh is uh quite startling given the fact that uh both entail. uh israeli i'm sorry palestinians to be killed and murdered, but another thing that he said based on an israeli official uh is that uh solomon uh said there was no pressure from solomon to end the fighting, but that he he was concerned about the displacement of palestinians and civilian casualties, so that

does really show that the us wants this war to continue uh, but why do you think the us is so keen on that? well the us is... does whether they say whatever they say to some extent doesn't matter much, considering they continue provide the weapons, you new shipments of weapons a almost sort of multi-day basis to to. so if they want to restrict uh the killing, it's pretty simple to just stop either giving or selling weapons to israel, so um, yes, us is absolutely completely complicit in in in this genocide. um, now what explains the us policy on this, i think that's a bit complicated in terms of, i mean, i think there's everything. from the us arms industry loves killing and love wars

uh that just is that's market and this has been a market for their weapons and and so that from that standpoint um i think the us obviously sees israel as geostrategic uh ally in the region that divides the region and bombs syria regularly and bombs other countries. region, i also think there's a very powerful israel lobby in within the us, there's a a christian zionist element to it, and then there's a a well organized jewish pro israel network, joe biden has long close connections to the israel lobby, so i think that that's the the you know the explanation is is that this mix of arms. industry, geostrategic thinking, and and this powerful lobby uh pushes the us government to to

basically support israel uh almost almost no matter what. uh, we need to figure out if you can help us, paulo rudy, as to what it is that will uh spell out an endgame here. now whatuh the us has said again out in the open is uh not what israel wants, the us wants what it calls a recalibrated, reformed a pa, i'm not too sure what a recalibrated or reformed pa would look like, but for that is what the option the us seems to be leaning on, um, because that's what they're envisioning, where uh the israel is saying we want to handle the security, um, what, what do you think it is that uh, either are going to, i guess agree on, because they both seem to, well, both, israel obviously has a say, and uh, a us is putting its two cents in there uh and i'm saying that uh take taking into account that hamas cannot be defeated as

we spoke earlier about that, so if you can put that into the equation for us and explain to us what's what may happen? yes, this is not about an agreement bet if if you're talking about how to end the the fighting and the resistance, it's not about an agreement between the united states and and israel or between ' israel, the united states and the rest of the world, it's about uh, the palestinians, the palestinians must must have a uh their voice, they must be satisfied, they are not going to go back to a uh, the the situation as it was before. hamas has clearly declared that, and it seems to me that they are doing very very well in pursuing their strategy, and can probably hold out for very, very long time. i'm not sure that israel can hold out for very long

time, their economy is is in the trash, and a half million israelies have already left the country, uh, a large percentage of their population is not living in the places where they used to live in the south and in the north, and they're very dissatisfied with what... the government is doing, i don't think israel can last that long, and and hamas is is uh is counting on that, so it's about hamas and they will not go back to the situation where they are living in a um an open air concentration camp and where their government, their existing government is taken away from them and and some - uh, you know, slave government is is is put in place

to control them so that the israelis have total, more control in the future than they they've had until now, that's not going to happen, so if you want looking for an end of it, the end of it coincides with the end of thesignist state, where there's one state for for for everyone with equal rights, that's it, that's that's the only peace terms that that is... going to uh end this situation, well one thing that is uh definitely, i guess propelling and increasing the chances of israel's economy uh taking a even larger hit. is uh a front perhaps that was not anticipated e zangler and that is the one with yemen of which we have seen what they have done when it comes to the maritime transit in the red sea where at this point any is really linked vessel i'm sure you're well aware of it is being targeted uh we just had in our news what was confirmed uh 80 to 85% of the port of alat uh has seized uh to

function in terms of uh the little amount that they did at the same time uh some of... reporting that there's really no chance of any type of vessel going there, and there are other countries that are suffering as a result of this, and the militarization of this red sea area by the us and its so-called coalition is adding more worry economically, do you think that this angle or part of this us genicidal us israely genocidal war may lead to the end of the war where israel? needs to put up the white flag? oh, there's no doubt that this puts pressure on israel, the the that the houthis definitely uh, they have they have uh ramped up the pressure, obviously there's also some pressure with regards to hezbolah, um, but yes, i think that is the case, i think that's this, it's it's clearly scared lot of the global uh

capitalist uh world uh, there's major um shipping companies that have said they don't they won't be taking israeli products, there's others that have decided to take different routes, which cost lot more. the us is clearly very scared, my government, the canadian government has has formally joined this coalition, that's basically countries that are not from the region militarily intervening, guess they have bahrain as a little bit of cover ' but uh but this is this is definitely one of the things the us was trying to avoid uh when it when it you know green lit the uh the just genocidal policies in gaza back in mid-october uh that's why the us was sending more naval vessels was trying to uh pressure any other forces in the region

to not um to not to you know defend uh defend palestinians um where this all could go, obviously this has the possibility of of escalating even further and drawing in other other other countries and and and a wider war. um, but this is it's it's the the demand that the general assembly made of the vast majority of general assembly for a cease fire, mean that's the way to go uh to israel has to stop its killing and uh and then and um that will lead to uh less problems with regards to shipping. um, but of course the us is going to do everything it can to uh make sure that there's um not there isn't that type of pressure on israel both um both economically within israel and kind of more broadly uh that flows from the uh disruption

of uh of shipping. so when we talk about other fronts there's one that has been uh escalating up yet a controlled manner, but it's still increasing in its uh intensity, and that is the one with lebanon. what is going on there, do you think, what will happen, paula rudy? we know um, well here again, we're looking at two different scenarios that's put out there, uh, one uh, israel saying no, we don't want this to uh expand with the hizbollah, but then you have other officials saying no, we need to go after hesbollah, we need to purge that area out, the u.s. says it does not want to uh also have this to elevate into that phase, what is the deal there, what do you think uh they want from that? well, hezball has also said that they um don't want escalate it in any further, but both sides are saying that they're willing escalate it. i think escalation would be a bigger problem for for

israel than it would be for hizballah. hezballah will f some internal problems in lebanon as a result of escalation, but they can do it, and with the proper provocation from israel, which israel seems willing to give them, then they can justify it to the to the rest of lebanon, so nobody really knows, the israelis don't know the the... lebanese don't know where where this is leading, but it could definitely lead to an expansion, and we don't know how big an expansion, even beyond the borders of lebanon and... israel and uh my final question goes to you um here, we're taking a look at the uh way that israel's standing has uh pretty much been decimated uh not to mention the us uh that

has uh israel has brought the us down with it in this uh genocidal war uh has israel lost legitimacy on the world stage when it comes to the way that countries are going to be dealing with israel whether it's through trade or through diplomatic means? certainly in terms of popular opinion, popular opinion around the world, it's pretty clear, is it's very hostile to what what israel is doing, even in a country like canada, that's the case, um, but uh, whether it leads to long-term ramifications on trade and stuff like that, um, the us is still very powerful, nato is still very powerful, they back israel, it's going to, this is clear. really been very damaging for uh us uh standing within the middle east and uh and i think more generally i mean you keep the statements

coming from south african leader about this being a genocide uh so probably large swats of africa as well uh to a certain extent in latin america uh but whether this leads to uh long-term effects on um trade and things like that i think that comes back to you know whether there are um the the forces that you know care about human beings and oppose genocide uh in the in europe, in the middle east, in north america, whether those forces keep mobilizing and keep denouncing uh what israel's done, you know even months after the the worst of the killing ends, um so you israel's powerful country, let's not let's be clear about that, it is powerful country, it has own internal uh divisions and i think when all is said and done those divisions in the current phase of killing, i think those divisions are going to be worse, they're going to be further exacerbated within within

israel, um, but uh, how that plays out in the uh kind of medium term, um, i don't know, it's clear that that israel has lost, um, here in north america in the belly of the beast, israel has lost, uh the younger generation, that's absolutely clear, public opinion has turned overwhelmingly, and public opinion in the middle east was always hostile to israel, and it's just become much more hostile, it's going to be harder for the different governments to normalize, but how you know the longer term ramifications, i i don't know at this point. all right, we'll leave it there. thank you, eve zengler, author and political activist from montreal. paulo rud a pleasure, co-founder of free palestine movement from berkeley. with that we come to an end for this edition of the spotlight fromway and... team, let's goodbye,

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top stories here on press tv, more palestinians are killed in israel's air campaign in gaza where the death full has surpass a 20,000 threshold the human. situation is getting worse by the minute in gaza with international bodies now warning of looming famin. the iraki resistance groups target major is really reported in their latest retaliatory operations over the reaching crimes in gaza.