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iranians fed up with the last monarch took to the streets in 1970. 9 to topple the puppet regime whose strings were being pulled by the us, the uprising had actually started over decade ago under the leadership of imam khumeini who was living in exile. listen to the stories of the protesters who brave the bullets for their cause.

resolutions have to be violated, how many more children have to be annihilated? this is not a war, it is systematic genocide, but what evidence try, palestine will never die free palestine, hello, i'm chris williamson and you're watching palestine declassified, we're the only weekly tv show that's dedicated to investigating and exposing the

israeli regime's global war against solidarity with the illegally occupied people of palestine. in this week's show we'll be focusing on the west new found commitment to the so-called two-state solution in response to the genocide being perpetrated by israel in gaza. but why don't they propose democratic solution rather than top-down imposition? after all, they're forever proclaiming their commitment to democracy, and enabling the entire adult population to vote on their future would be genuine exercice. in self-determination, this report by latif rabuchakra might have to explain their reluctance to do so. western states, especially the uk, are trying to resurrect the two states solution as they move for the first time to endorse a palestinian state. this new move signals a recognition that the axes of resistance is winning, better a palestinian state than the systematic dismantling of the zionist entity, but why do these western states, which... claim to exalt

democracy not favor democratic solution to the occupation of palestine, why not offer vote to all palestinians and all citizens of of israel about how they want to live. surely this would be an elegant solution which would of show a true commitment to democracy. as it happens, there is one state that has proposed democratic solution to the occupation, that is the islamic republic of iran. in november last year, the iranian foreign minister hussein amir'. abdullah hain emphasized again the right of the palestinian people to determine their own destiny, saying a referendum would be a complete solution to the palestinian question. the dimensions of this idea have been officially registered by the islamic republic of iran in the united nations, amir abdullah hane said. efforts to promote the idea have been made in various bilateral, regional and international fora. in at present, all those living in historic palales. including additional territories

such as the golan, amount to 7.2 million jews (48.6%) and 7.1 million palestinians (47.7%). in in addition, there are a further 7 million palestinians in the diaspora, 6.3 million in arab countries, and around 750,00 elsewhere. of this total of 21 million, therefore, some two-thirds are palestinian. these figures reveal the stark nightmare for the zionists. in any democratic process, the so-called state of israel would be voted into the dustbin of history. there is no mandate in the territory of historic palestine for a jewish state, and there never... will be, as the minister amir abdullah hain put it in november, the zionist regime, in the shadow of its inability to confront the resistance forces, took revenge on the defenseless people of ghazza and the west bank, which resulted in committing genocide and war crimes. it is plain that the blood lost

visible in the revenge on ghazza is driven by the short and certain knowledge of the zionists that they are outnumbered, and their genocidal settiler colonial ethnostate can only survive by. force of arms, the question now is, how long can that endure? as always, we're joined by our resident expert david miller, david is academic and a former professor at bristol university, and he's now a non-resident senior research fellow at the center for islam and global affairs at istanbul zayam university. he's also a co-director of the lobby and watch dog spinwatch and is a leading british scholarly critic of israel, and i'm pleased to welcome back batol sabati as our guest contributor today who joins us via skype. human rights activist and has a special interest in analyzing political and social issues. she blogs at stances to salvation, and in a professional life, she's a chemical engineer based in london. welcome to the show. david, what what do you make of the islamic republic of iran's proposal for democratic solution

that latifa referred to in her report just there? well, it's funny, isn't it, because it's the west that believes in democracy, surely, that's the whole uh, the whole um... way in which they present themselves, of course the the israelies say that the the only democracy in the middle east, but they won't of course uh engage in any kind of democratic process in relation to the territory of historic palestine because they know they would lose, and of course this is a signal feature of uh settler colonialism, and that's why in the case of northern ireland they drew the border of northern ireland so that there would always be a protestant majority in perpetuity, majority which is now a century later starting to... dissipate over the edge, so that's that's the point of this, that they they will not allow democracy, because democracy would mean that they would lose, there's no mandate for a jewish state in palestine, there's a mandate amongst the the plurality of the people of palestine, including the jews, including settlers who've come uh in recent times for a one state

solution, a one state, palestinian state in which all would have equal rights, that's of course what should happen in palestine, that's what would come out of democratic. and that of course is why the zionists cannot contemplate democracy, that's why they must exclude the people of gaza, people of the west bank, and indeed uh, what are called the israeli arabs, palestinians living in 48 israel from any democratic process, that's why that's why they do that, that's why they have to do that, and of course that's why they're committing genocide in gaza to move the lawn as is said, it's euphinism, falling uphanism that that they use, but bet all um, why is there not? more support do you think for this idea in the west? right? um, even the un resolutions, like palestineans have the right to return or the occupation of the west bank is illegal have effectively been placed on the shelves, and the west has not enforced it, of course, despite recognizing the 1967 occupations of the ghaza and west bank as illegal, but this the question of

why? it's because there's no will to enact justice, let alone a solution for a referendum, if the west has the choice, it will simply turn a blind eye to the excess exp. ism of the israeli occupation entity, beyond in fact the borders that the west defined for them to begin with, which was 55% the land in 1948. the israeli occupation entity, at the end of the day is the project the imperial west, the entity is effectively today bound by the supreme american interests. the west at the end of the day used the zionist movement as vehicle to fulfill its functional role in a region of strategic importance. so of course the west has no interest in changing this unjust status quo on the ground. that it has founded, unless and there is one exception, unless it is forced to do that due to the shift in the balance of powers on the ground that would be uh imposed by the resistance, yeah, but how would this work then in in reality, mean would every settle get vote in

your opinion? well, first of all, of course, it's not for me to say how the people of palestine should organize their affairs that's for the people of palestine, the proposal from the uh iranian government says that all the people presumably there would be some kind of discussion about that uh one would imagine that in any such vote that those who were there by 48 or 67 probably would get vote once we came later there may be an argument about that but even if all of the settlers you including the most recent ones from new york who've said that they have to steal someone's home because if they don't do it someone else will will do it for them even if the they all got a vote and and you know some people would be skeptical about whether they should they would still lose yeah and of course that's that's the that crux of the matter, if that was a process which was happening, then many of them would

decide to leave, someone would leave, some would fight, yeah, and that others would you potentially uh get used to the idea and come to live in a a one state palestine, the question of the proportion of those is something for history to decide indeed, well batul, mean would it be fair do you think to to give all recent zionist settlers about then, the israeli occupation entity is an expression of. is in its totality uh, these settlers, all of them partook in uprooting palestinians and dispossessing their rights to a home and livelihood, so those who effectively aided and committed those crimes and who came in as fighters and actually continued within the military complex um in these 7.5 decades, of course they have no right to vote uh because they are the reason for the palestinian subjugation to the worst form of violence for over 7.5 decades, you know the hundreds of and thousands of palestinians displaced to ended up as refugees in the west bank. azza, jordan, syria, lebanon, in what we call the nakba today. in 1948, in fact azza was under

egyptian power, and the west bank was under jordanian power. you know, so even the israeli occupation entities borders in 1948 were not the land that it controls today. 80% of busans today are refugees. even the palestinian christian pop population did not remain, so in terms of who is able to remain under this new autonomous palestinian system of governance, um, you know, such as those settlers who did not in a direct sense partake in the... wars or joined the occupation forces, all of that would be subject to the palestinians themselves, that is the palestinian decision to make, but in any case accountability is key element of any process of justice. so i mean from from, from what you've both been saying then david, i mean the demographics are are pretty stark aren't there, i mean there to be huge palestinian majority, wouldn't there? there would be, and people, i guess people don't really realize that, they sort of think was about the same people. "there are roughly in the territory currently, but of course all the refugees should should have a right to vote, have the right to return, that's in

shrined in un uh decision making, and of course it's a fundamental uh demand of the palestinian liberation movement, so that that would have to happen, and and of course the whole question about the the theft of land and the the settlements and who would live where that would all have to be sorted out as well, that's of course not not not an easy thing to do, but that would that would have to be and could be sorted out, but look, i think the question here is what what" you do with with those that have been uh in in the front line of stealing land, of assassinating, killing, murdering, ethnically cleansing the palestinian people. now of course there is a model for this, and you can see the the uh suspectuh netanyahu here, which is that the the key criminals would have to be uh dealt with in the justice system just like you would do in any other society where there is a genocide, so that that's that this deals with some of the question, but what? means is how you move to something called disionization, i think we might talk about a bit more in the program,

yeah, yeah, no do. well, but all, mean, this would lead wouldn't it to the the collapse of the zinis entity? right, so is our objective settler colonial a partide remaining or the restoration of justice is the question, so whatever justice demands should happen, this is the only solution to putting things straight, with without this referendum, the massacres will continue, israel expansionism without limits will continue, because as long as the occupation entity is able to expand, it will. its slogan is from the niile to the euphraties, you know, this is the least price paid for the crimes of 7.5 decades of palestinian subjugation, that is unlike anything that humanity has witnessed, and no one, no one has the right to decide for palestinians, how much portion of the land they get, the security arrangement, giving up arms, right? america simply gives orders as the police state of the world, this should happen, that should happen. "the solution is for every palestinian who was before the nakfa and still on the land of palestine and

all of their descendants across the diaspora to decide by a free referendum the form of their state, their system of governance. this is the correction, this is the reversal of this biggest shame and sin that occurred in 1948. this sin needs to be acknowledged, corrected, accounted for and compensated. well, well we'll come back to the discussion a moment. i'd like to get your views and..." david's obviously on our next report about why a process of designization is urgently required. the only just and workable. solution to the problem of the occupation of palestine is to end the zinanis colony, but how could the palestinians be expected or in practice accomplish living in peace with millions of genocidal zinanists? dezionization is clearly necessary, but what would it involve? after the end of the 1939-1945 war, it was clear that the entirety

of german society would need to be cleansed of nazi influences and effects and that the germans need to be reeducated. a key problem was what to do with the millions of germans who had belonged to one or another nazi organization. how to de-nazify them? judges from britain, america, russia and france assembled in nurenburg's courthouse. empowered to impose sentence of death, or such punishment as it may consider just, the tribunal sits in judgment upon 20 leaders of the nazi party. perhaps the most iconic part the process was the nurenburg tribunals. at which leading nazis were arrained. the tribunals also had key lasting effect on international humanitarian law, which we can see in today's icj judgment that israel is plausibly committing genocide in gaza. in relation to palestine, a large number of war criminals would need to be tried and sanctioned. the idea that they could ever commit genocide in palestine must be firmly

smashed. once the material support for racist ideas is... moved, then the ideas themselves are starved of sustenance. once the british left most of ireland in 1920, there were unionists in the irish free state who were bitterly and obstinately committed to ireland remaining a colony of britain, but after the declaration of a republic in 1948 and the fact of irish independence, most unionists gave up. within a generation, they had come to think of themselves as irish. the lesson for palestine is that material. circumstances supporting zinanis ideology must change, and then it will be possible to dismantle zionism. designization means, first of all, dismantling zionist organizations. this can be done by disbanding key organizations such that they cease to exist. most obviously, this would include the world ziness

organization and all of its affiliates all over the world, but there are zionist organizations which can have. legitimate functions in society, should they be effectively designized? today, there are many jewish groups that could be encouraged to disaffiliate from the genocidal ideology of zinanism. there's no reason to close schools, synagogues, student groups, which can and should be encouraged to disavow zionism and to provide places of learning, worship or representation for all, but make no mistake. formally zionist groups would have to cease to exist. wherever they are found. david, the report there just talked about the denastification of germany after world war ii, and just explain that process a little bit more, will you? so, at the end of the war in 1945, the allies, soviets, british, the americans, decided at yalter that they would

have to denatify germany, that didn't mean that they'd have to arrest and try war criminals as we see. here herman goring at the nurenburg tribunal, it meant that the the whole society had to be changed and to be cleansed of nazi ideology, that meant for for example that the millions of people who have been active members of nazi organizations would have to be constrained or have to be questioned, have to go through reeducation process and that that's of course something you you certainly would have to do with the isimus, it's not just that we'd have to have netanyahu. in the dock following gering or or yof galant uh following ribbentrop or or isaac hertsog following rudolph hess you would have to have that but you would also have to have all those who'd been key to key zinest organizations like of course the so-called israel defense forces uh like the police and like some of the key ideological signs the jewish national fund for example

the world science organization all these people would have to go through reeducation the the rest would not necessarily have to go through. that process and that of course was a process which didn't go very well in the end, it wasn't very thorough going, the americans did better with it than did the british and the french didn't care, and of course they they they rehabilitated some of the nazis to become nato officers etc. the soviets did um better that than the british and the french too as you might expect, but that wasn't was a process which in the end uh was was curtailed by the move to the cold war and so they so effectively what happened in the case example, in the uk, there thousands and thousands of ukrainian nazis who were brought to the uk in 1947, they were kept in camps for year, and then they just let them go, there was no denatification process at all, and those nazis, the descendants. remain some of them in the uk supporting the nazis and ukraine to this day, so there there's a problem with denacification in the sense it wasn't properly carried out in my opinion, so

you think the the kind of number trials um offer some sort of a blueprint, but it it needs to be a bit more rigorously much wider process of of designization, that's right, right, right, right, okay, well matil - mean the neurb trials were touchtone weren't they for the creation of international humanitarian law, is there a danger do you think? of moving away from those principles at the international courts of justice, right? so the same entities that effectively establish these humanitarian laws are committing the same crimes these laws are designed to prevent, according to the icj's verdict of plausible genocide. so what we can effectively conclude from this is that the laws did not come out for the sake of justice, but for western political interests, to establish the israeli occupation entity and to enable the settlers to occupy palestine. you know the holocaust we all now was just the pretext. for the creation of the wrong state in 1948, because we know the balper declaration is the baseline. the neka was systemically planned the jewish immigration from around the world to palestine went on since the beginning of the

last century under the colonial british mandate. the first entities to recognize the wrong israeli occupation entity was the us and the soviet union. so even if we want to go with the argument that you know there were humanitarian motives but establishing this uh jewish homeland. the reality for 7.5 decades has been mass expulsion and mass. i mean even the palestinians within 1948 are stripped of their rights and relegated to low-class citizenship. i mean the entity even treats eastern jews as lower class then um western jews. that's how inherent the racism is. yes indeed. well, maybe i mean which zinist groups and do you think should be dismanded in your opinion? well, i think again you you you use the nazi example, but what do we what do we think about the end sdap and and the hitler youth and obviously those organizations have to be sorted out? in the case of the the world zionist organization, that's an organization which is at the forefront of ethnic lensing through its various agencies, through the jewish agency and through the jewish national f which steals palestinian land, so those

organizations have to be disbanded in every country there's a signist movement, there is federation, it's one in the uk, one in the us, many other countries, and they have multiple members, most of those organizations would have to go, but there are some of the organizations that are currently part of the world zinest organization who who you plausibly could disaffiliate, and there's been discussions for example in the union. jewish students zianist organization about whether it should be a sionist or a non-zionist organization currently is a zionist organization, but there is very small minority within the ujs pushing for a post or a non-saionist position, that's the way that that these organizations would have to go, otherwise they have to to be be removed, otherwise they continue to be genocidal and racist, other organizations like for example the conservative friends of israel and the labor friends of israel, not formally part of the zionist movement, but absolutely to the core about promoting the idea of... 'genocidal jewish state and so they would have to go of course we have a proper uh friends of palestine group in the labor party and the conservative party, we don't currently have proper groups like that, but

that of course could could replace those organizations, so there's a variety of things on off here, mean i think the key thing is that that you you can't go about dissolving almost all the synagogues in the uk, almost all of these the synagogues are parts of synagogue movements which are formally zionist jews have to have somewhere to worship, you couldn't possibly attack their rights and in that kind of way, but they don't have to be zionist synagogues, they didn't used to be zionist synagogues before the zionist movement took over the whole of the organized jewish community, yeah, well, but i mean, why do you think these ideas about designization are only just getting significant attention now? absolutely, um, it's all down to the blood of ghazza, the blood of ghazza has effectively awakened the mass conscious of the world, the scale of atrocities and the genocide just can't be ignored, and these masks are falling, the nations are waking up, compare this to few years. go though when the situation was entirely different when trump you broke at the abraham accords, the israeli occupation entity effectively then had the upper hand and there was worldwide silence uh which would have in fact continued had the

palestinians who are victims not resisted and in fact rather accepted the humiliation of their occupiers, so really only the blood of ghazza has forced the west to seriously consider this two state solution such that it sees other way out, because to continue besieging ghazah is really shooting the west in the foot and the israel occupation entity security is existentially threatened post october the 7th, nothing can take that away, so whilts the west is you know apprehensive to admit the genocide effectively, it wants solutions because the region is too important for it and it cannot remain unstable this region for western interests, so the west is looking for some form of minimum stability, but ultimately the magnitude of the cumulative aggressive policies against the palestinians in the region is what has inevitably led to the instability of of western interest. in the in the first place and it's pushing this whole rhetoric behind designization. yeah, just to explain your thinking as well, just expand a little bit more willier about why you feel then that

some zinist organiz organizations should be allowed to continue but in in a different form. well, if we're going to talk talk about ending the racist ideology zinism, we have to end the the circumstances which produce it and that that of course is the organizations and the money which goes to support those organizations, so it's perfectly possible for, mean let's take the board of deputies for example, the board of deputies of british jews used to be a non-zionist or anti- antit organization until it was it was captured through a process in in 1940s before the creation of the so-called state of israel. "it could go back to being a non or anti-sionist organization, there's no reason why that couldn't be the case, and the same would be the case with with the synagog movements, most of the synagog movements in the uk representing the overwhelming majority of of synagogues, reform, uh, liberal uh, the the united synagogue, uh, they are all zionists, now the only major one which is not zionist is the the union of orthodox hebrew congregations, which is the ultra orthodox

representative, now amongst" the the different sorts of groups that are represented in those the synagoges that are part of that organization are anti-zionist yeah synagoges. now that is is a potential model for how these things could happen, that that organization is notice and that's how all of them should be in order that we can get rid of the racism of scinism. yes, yes indeed. well, well thank you for that, but unfortunately we are out of time again. so let me thank our guest batul sabati and of course our residence expert professor david miller. palestiny classified, we'll be back next week with more forensic investigations. an analysis and in the meantime, please share today's program on your social media platforms to help us continue growing our audience, and remember you can follow the show on facebook, twitter and telegram where we post regular clips and updates, so until next time, this is chris williamson saying bye for now.

аллаху акбар! 27 четвёртая! kita tidak menginginkan negara yang pelit dengan rakyatnya.

first of the headlines: the us is really genocidal war in gaza keeps taking innocent palestinian lives as the death b tops 28,00 mark. you once more minister says the israely regime and his supporters have failed to achieve any of their goals after four months of genocide against the people of gaza and the senior hamas official has survived assassination attempt by the israeli regime in lebanon.