we have two options either the through this current somehow megas do we draw the treat our friend barack obama to some kind of european currency would be to the good of the end as i think the burger will taste best for me than for the two of you. russia and germany is set the table for greater cold gratian with the west at the summit in the euros on the menu transport and technology advances for russia followed by the billion dollar deals of the meeting present in bed it also iran to be more transparent in its nuclear program. and other headlines they do ask tons over the last iraqi prisoner under its control to local authorities america will

continue to hold two hundred detainees including eight members of the forward james says the allied invasion the us run system has a hundred more than one hundred thousand prisoners president obama's deadline for withdrawal from iraq is set for december next year. and set five years ago the us no which their first joint space mission up on a c news event marks not only the beginning of an air of space exploration but also a full day and forward. as the headline is i'll be back in under thirty minutes up next to talk about i guess discuss if obama's cuba policy has failed where should the u.s. go from here again dealing with a perino thaw in america's side that's up next here out.

keep. a low key and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle well he's back fidel castro's appearance on cuban television after four years again puts into focus of on his complicated relationship with washington obama calls u.s. policy on cuba failed what needs to be done to make it a success. story. to discuss the future of u.s. cuban relations i'm joined by cathy areu in new york she's a publisher an author and a journalist in denver we have dr michael dell authority he's a cuban refugee and a professor at the school of theology and in washington we go to frank was on he's

the executive director of the center for a free cuba and another member of our cross talk team yell in the hunger all right folks across talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and first i'd like to go to you frank am obama says u.s. policy towards cuba has failed it's a failure how would you characterize his interpretation is it a failure because the united states wasn't able to an act of forced regime change after the last sixty years in havana. well president obama has said a number a number of things one and he lifted sanctions on travel to cuba by cuban americans and he also will lift the sanctions on remittances to cuba president obama did ask the cuban government to release all political prisoners and to put in place economic and political reforms the state the primary has said that they released of

a handful of prisoners does not meet the expectations of a president ok so because humans aren't listening to the americans god after sixty years they still won't listen to and won't be told what to do kathy what do you think about that i mean this this is a this is really an abomination in foreign policy the only other foreign foreign policy the united states has that i think even gets remotely close is with iran it's just it's psychopathic it's a psychopathic obsession around one of them and it's even worse with cuba because it's just simply longer i mean this what is this embargo really achieved. nothing it hasn't achieved anything i mean it was supposed to help the human rights in cuba and the people are suffering that they haven't and so could there have me to they don't have cheese for their pizzas i mean they don't have the basics in life that make life pleasurable they can't leave the island they're just it's a disaster the government's fine for their customers brother have always had a great time they're living a beautiful life so the embargo has done nothing for me then the castro brothers

are doing great the people are suffering it is a failed policy it's not logical it's emotional and i don't know when we start running things in this country based soley on emotions it's not a logical embargo and it needs to be lifted we go with it what do you think about that i mean what is the what is the embargo in cheve should it be dropped or should it be nuanced i mean this is this a outrageously bad relationship in the neighborhood as it were i mean the rest of the world there's only three countries in the world the united states israel and the marshall islands that recognize this embargo everyone else says it's awfully wrong ok what what is it achieved except for make the united states look what it is a bully well quite frankly i think all of us on this program today will agree that we want to see democracy in cuba if that is the goal then the embargo has failed for the last sixty years there has been no change of anything it has given

the castro brothers an excuse to come down harder on its own citizens. if we continue with this failed policy right basically we're continuing with a bridge built to the past we want to build a bridge to the future and it's up to this new generations of cuban and cuban americans to start building that bridge to continue this and bargo is to continue to suffering of the people there and what's important is the people who have suffered the most the dissidents the one who have been thrown in jail for human rights violations so-called human i mean the ones who are suffering human rights violations. to put the political prisoners of conscience in cuba or agree that we need to lift the embargo not to do so is not to help the very people who are on the front lines of suffering in cuba ok kathy you want to jump in there go right ahead i do i mean he is completely right and the embargo

really is a myth you know if you go to cuba you'll find coca-cola you'll find microsoft products you'll you'll find many american brands in cuba right now where one of their biggest export exporters we give them i think we supply them with the majority of their food their imported food so it actually is a myth it's almost like a show so castro is able to say well the united states really hasn't helped us and we don't need that and we're suffering actually because of the united states which is not true they're suffering because they failed castro regime he doesn't know how to run a country he's never known how to run a country but he's able to blame us because of an embargo that actually doesn't truly exist when you really look at it it's all for show like it's not a true embargo anymore franco hands out yeah i know you're going to jump in there go right ahead. yeah i think that i like when the in the beginning kathy talk about not being emotional about it let me just get all of those back to the facts

the idea that. the cubans as their mother writer said are not listening to the united states is not really the issue the issue is that the cuban regime not the cubans is not listening to the cuban people the issue here is a little better more complex i'm sorry let me let me finish my thought the issue here is a little bit more complicated danny than it has been pointed out it is not true it's not factually accurate to say that all dissidents support one policy or the other this is this is one of those efforts to try to paint cuba in black and white their dishes to support one policy their dissident who have gone to prison for supporting a u.s. policy finally i don't know of any country in the world in the history of where we're in a political scientist who has changed policy just to deny another government

a an excuse that makes no no sense at all finally they embargo all the talk about a nuanced embargo then bargain is very new once then thirty forty years ago was one thing today american companies sand sale hundreds of millions of dollars to cuba if the cuban government were to allow their remittances that are sent from the united states to be used to do business to grow fruit that would be resole them go with what do we want we want to export or interest to cuba we want to export fish to an island bountiful sea come on let's stop blaming america and put the blame where it belongs which is and they in the fifty are all cast for the chip game again if i can go to you again the current political regime can use this word the embargo. oh the blockade i think it is in spanish i mean they are able to unite the people against the united states and reaffirm the legitimacy however they define it

because of the bar going mean it seems so nonsensical what why doesn't the united states just flood the place with dollars ok i mean just say hey forget it and then most likely there would be political change there the embargo maintains the status quo that's one interpretation anyway go ahead we go. well quite quite frankly if the embargo was lifted and people started travelling back and forth you begin to have the exchange of ideas you've been to have the plantings of seeds of democracy we saw this is stoically happen in eastern europe we saw this already happen in bringing down to talk to redeem us so wide i'm sorry i'm sorry not boggle i believe i believe i am i am i thought i let you finish your i let you finish your let me finish mine i strongly believe that the reason we maintain an embargo in this country is because it benefits certain cubans in politics and in business to

maintain this hatred towards this other government because it has helped them become quite wealthy in the united states we need to be on the politics that benefit a few and instead create a part of c. that helps the majority of the cuban people in cuba as well as in the united states there's an old adage you haven't heard. so i haven't finished i haven't finished there's an old adage. to cuba so close so close so far from god and so close to the united states i think we have as well and i like that that since we have to remember that since john adams there has been a desire go ahead for two i'm sorry i'm going to go to frank. yeah go ahead let's all anyone has a lot of credit and historical desire to capture cuba if not militant i mean he has been invaded by the united states four times in the last century and at least two

or three times the cia tried to overthrow the government how can you be a sovereign nation when you have when you're so close the united states that wants to capture you if not physically at least economically and you cannot deny history of us let me know what you're going to control on. all of its resources all right frank i had jump in front. of you first of all let's get the facts straight to quote that the professor just used about close to the united states god that's a quote about mexico let's let's get the facts straight that's number one to the killing all right thank you lord well. ok well i don't know i mean that's a quote that any historian will tell you but let me say this is. well i'm sorry i'm sorry i didn't walk around so i can i had thought ok frank ok you know i'd like to point out i'd like to point out frank that mcgill's analogy even though it is with

mexico still does apply to cuba go ahead frank go ahead and that's a that's a very famous quote about mexico and i don't know if it applies to cuba that's his view but he percent that. quote about cuba and as erroneous as mistaking as he it is mistaken to say that the way of dealing with this is to send tourist to cuba my friends think they should all know their fire speak for themselves millions of canadians millions of spaniard and many other people have gone to cuba sending tours to cuba means giving money to castro's banks and not to the cuban people the idea of blaming the victims of blame in their refugee i'm sorry oh blaming the refugees that's a line of a cuban government that calls people like me traitors cia agents warmish. the spanish word for embargo is embargo is not broke a blockade is

a military operation and that does not exist a regard to cuba all right we have to jump in here ok folks are going to jump in here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on u.s. policy towards cuba stay with our. youth. nineteen ninety the train carries away the russian empire gold reserve. to save it from the soviets. five hundred tons of gold. dozens of counted. six hundred fifty millions in. the

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if you. want to. welcome back across computable to remind you we're talking about who will benefit from better relations between cuba and the u.s. . but before let's see what russians think about the cuban leader cuba and the united states have been at loggerheads since fidel castro came to power in nine hundred fifty nine since one thousand six to one u.s. policy towards cuba has focused on a trade embargo and diplomatic isolation and administration travel restrictions was strengthened in two thousand and four though there was a u.s.

mission and how on there was little communication with the cuban government how about with barack obama in office when expect changes and the removal of travel restrictions the russian public opinion foundation asked russians if they consider fidel castro to be an outstanding twentieth century politician sixty three percent said he definitely is since his actions benefit cuba only nine percent disagreed. ok kathy i started out with talking about forced regime change over the last sixty years in cuba on the part of the united states i'd like to ask you is the cuban elite the anti castro the are they afraid of regime change actually in miami and their influence on congress the. cuba that is no threat to the united states not now the cold war is over they're not sending troops to angola i mean come on i mean it's regime change in miami that is really on the table right now they don't want

to lose their grip on power and their wealth by the way. well the well as you said because it's very can be such an ill and the. well let me let me say that the reason right now that we still have this embargo in cuba the reason the united states has done this and continue this failed policy is because of the diaz balart brothers in congress and because of ileana ross layton and when they want to get reelected they talk about being cubans and what fastow in power and outcast in power mean to them and how we took away our houses and he took away our money and he took away our island and took away our land so it's very emotional and we're going to keep voting them in because they are cubans talking and singing our song however it is a failed policy and over sixty percent of the cuban americans actually in miami right now do not want the embargo and they want a regime change in cuba we all want to redeem change in cuba but they don't want the embargo they say let's stop fighting this old fight let's do something new because it is failed so we are oscillating on the d.s.

ball our brothers are actually singing the tune that their constituents are no longer singing i think they're getting reelected because they are cuban americans that they can relate to but i think their story with the embargo doesn't work anymore and i think the problem is that obama and the other politicians in d.c. think that they're right on the embargo when the majority their constituents now do not believe in the embargo the majority of cuban americans in the united states do not believe in the embargo ok so i think that people really talk about i don't i do . why do you want a friend because i like to point out a lot of these foreign policy issues are really not foreign policy they're domestic issues ok there's a number of kind of like i like bill like you like is like israel is like that too it's or or you can find the war in afghanistan is like nobody wants to lose it domestically ok it's not no one cares about afghans and washington so you know is it really the last use you know which is they demand they stay with cuba sorry i went off track is it really remains to be politics good frankly yeah well you know yeah first of all i mean this is

a very interesting program. in the sense that there's no new and says about a disloyal a black and white nobody cares about afghanistan and you know that's not quite true only on the case of the congressman that is the view of the cuban government ladies and gentlemen if you want to know how who what where can you be ok. if you know it's not true and let me tell you why that's not true is to have is factually incorrect to say that cuban americans do not support the current policy because if you want to know how they how they help you they would have my own way let me finish yeah yeah well in miami they all kind of all go let me tell you they important ball is that one that happens every two years and as when they are going to go to vote and they vote their elected officials that their way works in america as far as the russians i think up for all of that feel cassar and great either i

assume the same. the same people who believe that styling was a great leader. castro you know these you know right you know i think it's very funny i think it's very funny what you say because you spent the world before excuse me frank you made an accusation i'm going to react to it ok you know i mean you know you're living in a bubble most of the world miners fidel castro for good reasons are. wrong reasons and you know i'm that's not a debate that we're going to have going the right point is well. i was in jail castro was very positive in the world ok you know you don't like that not in cuba head and maybe not in london but you would find you know it nice actually if i ask you about how i live it well for your daughter fact is daughter fact you are manipulating the facts feel cows are over your in the facts repeats the fact that it was an obvious i don't feel you well look i'm a short your science as you could call something as many times as you want but is

daughter fact they ain't cuba that cuban government has been in power for fifteen years they can't was wanting change they key will show on the stand that where you are saying about sending dollars into q well then where i am if their french well you are wrong if i me that kind a.v.'s if i'm playing that kind they let me finish so you finish your point frank with me down let me finish go ahead he was able to manage their friend yeah well i mean let me finish their french that the navy and their russian said that paris club sent a lot of dollars to cuba that also work because cuba misusers that money you know for the benefit of the cuban people ok go ahead yeah he is one thing where i will agree with frank believe it or not i do not at my feet ok astral i have as much problem with the tater ships of the left than i do of the ships of the right. i believe that people do want change i believe that cuban americans also want

change the difference is that i believe change will happen when you have people exchanging ideas when you have people seeing democracy in action the problem with frank is that he believes that change will occur by maintaining a fifty plus policy that has been has narrowed actually to cuba if anything it made things worse i mean people are still not having what i believe assess the needs of life but that's. not always the ninety miles maybe i'll make you know telling me that we're going to go to bed well you know well i'll tell you one thing that's not what i believe and you don't know me you know of my problem is what i would like to see is to people you know you know this question well but i don't talk about your problems so you seem to talk about my frank make a point to be frank make a point go ahead please make a point that point is wait is that for example let me let me say this you talk

about a number of things you said about israel for example for you know cows for a rope broke relations with israel feel castree shame today that the israelis want to send it back into gas chambers that is not the kind of government that is willing to negotiate what we need is just this kind of discussion that we're having here tonight in cuba let the cuban stark and let make it was think to resolve a problem which is not washington is not moscow it's not people who up all died for that all over again want to move forward cathy i want to go to you ok let's say for example there is regime change quietly and change night no one ever wants violence what do you think the possibility is that when the current political regime comes to an end let's say she's a political regime of one family which looks that way anyway is there a fear that the u.s. what is the police i'm asking kathy a question now do you feel that there is that the. worry that this could be just eaten up by mean an invasion of money where we would go right back to right before

the revolution where would be the playground of rich americans because the cubans are pretty poor right now ok taking advantage of them buying up their land their all of their all their you know what they have i mean at least what health care they have they have their is better than the united states they would lose that you know so they would the last thing they need is american healthcare in cuba ok we need the we need their system kathy what's the what's the what's the danger i'm asking kathy go ahead. yeah it'll probably be the american playground like it was with but these stuff but they still had free education they still had free health care when it wasn't under a communist regime so i don't think that's going to change i just do believe that they're going to see mcdonald's on every corner i think they're going to see starbucks on every corner i think they're going to see kellogg's in their grocery stores and i don't think things could actually get worse so if there's a regime change and there is an influx of money i think the people will benefit i think you'll have more tourism from the united states and things cannot get worse in that country you know go back to the way it was with but these that which wasn't

fantastic but slowly and surely maybe things will get better and i believe that it will help and also i was disagreeing with frank before i think he has to understand that gusto is loved around the world because the united states is often seen so much as a big bully examinations little tiny desirable island with eleven million people with this guy who is willing to stand up to the united states who doesn't love the little guy who stands up to that big old bully it doesn't say that he's a good leader it just has a lot of people like to get behind him and kind of kind of you know tell off the united states while they stand behind him i think. and that's why they should and that's why this report the dictator dead and i used to cue in people every human rights be i don't care whether people who are in the world think about castro i care about the cuban people and let me tell you what's going to happen in cuba that's going to take you about right away to is that that cubans in cuba not the

cubans in miami not the professor no me. here in washington the cubans in cuba was decide their own destiny that's what we all want exactly but you know i'm going to give you the last time. ok. i told i told you what frank says the self-determination of a people can only be determined by the people themselves which i'd then find ironic that frank is in washington d.c. trying to pass policies in the us congress that will deny true people of cuba to determine their own destiny but only want the embargo lifted i know the people of cuba want the embargo lifted i've been to the island i've talked to people i've read what the dissidents have been saying i'm going to end this i mean at least. with the quota he will make out we'll make our wine out of plantings and even if it is sour it is still our wine it is up to the cuban people to make their own wine

and i'm talking about the cuban people on the island those of us here in the united states human to united states came to go we're going to i'm going to jump in at this point we enter on a point that i think we all agree on many thanks to my guests today can feel lou miguel dilatory and frank house on and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r t c n x time and remember cross talk rules. in last go o.t. is available in some areas grand hotel ritz carlton royal marriage the ruins renaissance could go on mary lou.