to. follow in welcome to cross talk i'm curious about sweating it out a good part of the world is experiencing a crippling heat wave is this a trend or simply freaky weather one thing is certain extreme temperatures are again fuelling the debate on climate change. and you can. discuss what's happening to the weather i'm joined by mark linus and oxford he's an environmentalist and climate change author in new york we have alexander ochs director of world watches institute climate and energy program and in los angeles we cross to phelim mcaleer he's a journalist and documentary filmmaker and another member of our cross talk team all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want mark and i to go to you in oxford first what the hell is going on with the

weather and i say that with a great deal of passion because moscow is baking this is russia it's shouldn't be happening here at least that's what i always believed why are we having such high temperatures around the world in places which you would never expect it. well first up you've got to distinguish between weather and climate ok if we're going to look at whether we're experiencing climate change and global warming you need to bear that in mind that climate is the average of weather over a longer period so with the heat waves that we're seeing these are reflective of a broader trend towards warming so i think you can say that we're now seeing the first effects of global warming in the way that these heat waves are now coming more often and they're hitting more severely and hitting harder in the places where they're telling we get local cooling already i was i. mean really i didn't think what happens i'm sorry go ahead go ahead let him go ahead go ahead well yeah you

can talk about the count de mar according to mark linus you can't talk about individual weather events when it's cold weather when there's cold weather no that's got nothing to do with the climate but that's got nothing or that's just a one off event then when it gets hot which it does somewhere in the world every so often then that's indicative of climate change they that's the thing with these climate alarmists they change the rules to suit their own argument they change the facts to suit their own argument and the people are software are working people who depend upon cheap energy for their job and i usually malaise according to the basic research the slowness of using points of mass to use and. using your human intelligence in your computer are sailors doesn't care about the curse people of the planet. all right now i can get you to shut up kind of. close here where i was called in america when i was called in america you know when i made a big point of i was told tired one time again this is cold weather this is not climate no i want to warm you want to say oh this is climate and we need to do we need to cut in an industry we need to cut the hopes of millions of people in the

developing world take away their or their hope for fossil future and in industrial future condemn hundreds of millions of people in the developing world to a pre-industrial. existence which means. increasing child mortality and short british don't you made your point mark wants to reply and we want to go ahead mark go ahead and jump in. well it was just to make the point actually that we're talking about averaging out weather here so rather than looking for different events and saying the least reflect something or they don't you have to look at longer term changes and there's less and less cold events when there's more and more hot events and that shows that the baseline is changing and the reason for this is basic physics i mean climate deniers like problem over there may and may try and go against the rules of physics but the rest would have to live by them and the fact is that if you put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere principally carbon dioxide the system the earth system the climate will heat up there's no way you can deny that it's provable in a bar or a tree the question is how much it'll heat up and by and by and by when and that's

where the scientific uncertainties are but we're running a huge risk with our children's future and with our own future if we continue to dump these pollutants into the atmosphere as if there were no tomorrow and then listen to deniers like phelim who pretend it's not exist not happening presumably in order to benefit powerful industrial interests like you will come out all right i want to hear alexander first because we haven't heard it all xander in new york please go ahead thank you very much i guess at this point i want to make two comments here one is we bring together the scientists the leading scientists in the world those who have peer reviewed journal articles in a very open and very transparent process in which governments also have some sort of an oversight in this saying it since many years starting in one thousand nine hundred two and that's of course a u.n. panel called the international panel on climate change thousands of the real scientists and not the allam is on either side maybe and these these scientists

come to very clear reports and they report in two thousand and seven the most recent one states the influence of human beings on the climate is without any doubt and it also just you know it's basically it's not just physical sciences and we can go back and it's recorded that the warming in the last century was warming of zero . point seven four degree celsius so so this is one point i want to make i really want to move forward and talk about solutions rather than doubting the science i think the science it's clear that as well as i as i like i don't i don't i like to change. things yeah i mean i was that you might always agree. ninety nine point nine percent of climate scientists are going to do with their hundred percent in saying i want to just let me general manager and i. was very very demanding and explaining. xander finishes point i know this is a contentious issue go ahead you can finish if you pull that is the second is the

second point so one is about the observer luzhin today and the second and there is there's going to be a war in the future and this is clear beyond any doubt in my point of view the second thing that i wanted to make is what is this great fossil fuel future that you're lining out here i mean i think you basically want to lock in people with us or you know although usually they are conscious of life's on a daily basis local pollution local water pollution you want to maybe lock them in with a diesel generator the fuel of which they can't afford in five or ten years anymore yeah i mean you look at our solution these are. the really the really very little sense of the ok gentlemen looks like we've got two sides here go ahead in los angeles you want to reply to that it's not it's not my solution it's the solution that is me and marc rich it is the solution that is made alex rich it's a solution that means i can live in a rich society with all the benefits that brings it's a fossil fuel solution that marc and alex want to deny to the poorest people on the

planet and alex talks about the i.p.c.c. saying it has warmed up in these public documents but i prefer i prefer when scientists talk privately like in the claimant get emails and member that scientists who say that the truth is that house and warm the last fifteen years and it's a disgrace that we can't explain why we've gone through. this feud is warm you know weather changes. it always will it always has warmer weather is good for agricultural productivity at least a male she's e-mails have just been misinterpreted cost of millions of jobs will cost hundreds of millions of jobs across the across america across europe across russia and deny the chance of a future to hundreds of millions in the developing world i want to make some ridiculous conspiracy theories and i built a distance i thought ok mark go ahead jump in there go ahead mark what i say i just want to say that. i'm going to be in let's go ahead. yeah this whole climate gate business i mean it it does add fuel to the conspiracy theory fires that you hear

from the climate change denial side but the fact is that if anyone's private emails were scattered all over the internet it would be embarrassing there are things that were said in private which i don't think showed climate science in the greatest light but the fact is it doesn't change any of the basics of what we understand about the way the climate works in the way we understand about the effects of greenhouse gases you can pretend the risks don't exist you can pretend that they're always going to stay the same you can pretend that burning fossil fuel has no interest has no effect rather but as i say that's just sticking your head in the sand if you've got that knowledge lark you know if you think you've got to let me just finish up let me finish up if you think you've got intentionally all the other great you go do you go down the road and see somebody who's who's not an expert and ask their opinion or you go to an oncologist if you've got a heart problem you go to a you know a cardio cardiologist don't you so you need to listen to the experts here in the experts ninety eight ninety nine percent when i did that we have a problem and we've got to start dealing with it ok alexander i'd like to go to you and i want to find i don't have any strict guidelines only xander please ok we just

heard that there's a lot of consensus within the scientific community and i'm going to take mark's word for that ok but one of the problems i have is a bystander i'm not an expert on any of this ok i did really badly in science in high school but what is happening to the message about climate change because we keep we're told over and over and over again the scientists disagree we have these emails floating around i mean alexander has the whole message about climate change been modeled in the media partly responsible for that because of really blown it out of proportion sometimes. i you know you are you're actually hitting hitting a really good point here and it is that the media is playing its role and i don't think it's purpose you know on purpose reporting about anything wrong here but it always has a tendency to show both sides in this case the problem is just as mark has has said

that eighty ninety eight percent ninety nine percent of the scientists maybe even more actually do agree on the basic facts they do agree that the work that the temperature has warmed on an average scale over the last one hundred years and it's actually not true at all that it has coal cooled down in the last fifteen years it has actually what the last fifteen years on average are the hottest on record that we have experienced so so we do agree on that the thing is for the media you want to have somebody who who shows the other side so that makes these five or ten people that are out there that actually still study nine yet maybe a few more maybe of the dozen i don't really care too much about them but that makes them very prominent and they have hardly any reason to give up the world that they are playing fight frankly guess that i'm in los angeles i did get one minute before we got to the break is it really that much consensus in the scientific community from your perspective well i'm lucky enough to be old enough when

i went to school in the seventy's to be told by my geography teacher that we're renting we're entering a new ice age doubles the consensus back them so scientific consensus be not true to say that another is you can argue because. now i know so i was taught at school that's not a myth i was told at school that we were and what you enjoy the situation and i was about i don't know that i find that if you look even if you look at myself for it if you look at my documentary if you look at my documentary not evil just for all we even go back and show all the newspapers show the cuttings from time magazine the new scientific advances are well known as i saw it and said it was in all it was in the irish times the new york times it was a consensus no scientists were saying they were wrong the cia reports that the american state department reports same rant in a new era of. a year of ice age all right and gentlemen i'm going to jump in right here why you are right gentlemen gentlemen ok we have to go to a break after a short break we'll continue our debate on climate change stay with r.t.

. if you. want. to speak to the cascio region the wilderness of the great town it's a form of. goes to central russia where the car industry is rapidly developing where history finds a good life in its place. where american soldiers can find a new. welcome to the. show clips of.

the so. if you. still. want to. welcome our all star crime you're all about tree mind you we're talking about extreme weather around the world. and. story. but first let's see if russians believe in global warming.

some of flooding heating quaking what's next all over the world people experiencing extreme weather unusual for their region for the season and in general precedent russia is experiencing the hottest summer in over fifty years coming on the heels of a loan and they're recalled went up the high temperatures have seen forest fires raids and droughts athletic rushes crop yield but has the normal heatwave convinced russian change skeptics according to a recent public opinion poll almost half of russians forty nine percent now accept the principle of global warming percent remain unconvinced however denying global warming is with us peter all right gentlemen we're talking about differences within maybe the scientific community maybe there is. a large majority in

a small minority but at the end of the day it's kind of turned into the climate industry because a lot of people write about it people make films about it there are scientists involved non scientists involved there are people who go it both extremes if i go to you alexander the climate industry in a way everyone arguing everyone's kind of benefitting in their own private way but this is really help us understand where we should be going well i mean there's clearly a lot of people out there that are not. profiting from from just talking and not acting and you know there's a very clear economic case apart from an energy security case a military security case and environmentalists there's a clear economic case to make to really act on it and every day actually not acting we're losing we're losing economically we're losing people's lives the science has so greatly progress over the last years and i'm a very surprised to see the gentleman from from los angeles talking about what

scientists are in one thousand site. i mean we that was probably around the time still when we thought that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer and we had a time where very powerful people in on this planet actually doubted that the earth is a ball and it's not drowned it's actually flat so we're having these these i think we have to overcome this last stage it is really in our interest in our and economic interest to act and not just not just talk about it of course it's an issue that just people very personally and you know again the gentleman from los angeles talking before about our rich lives in the cities you know we hardly feel these heat waves yes it's hot outside but you know we really experience climate actually really rather as the weather it's our tomorrow. it's raining let's bring in umbrella to work that's the kind of way we experience it but if you go outside of the cities if you talk to the farmers worldwide if you talk to the people who live closer to nature they going to tell you these stories is happening right now and actually over the last ten years and i'm really frank and honest about this i

had a lot of climate deniers in my group of friends people you know who didn't believe too much into it and a lot of them have changed because they see the ground as getting yellow in the summer in places like vancouver where that has and they are marching out before and nobody remembered that this happened so they see that firsthand and i think skews i mean excuse me gentlemen as it touches people i know years and years mary germinal in the red or you know the good the gentleman in los angeles is making films about it and that's his right and it's interesting how you salaries even did you not listen to. they did not listen they did not listen to the they did or did you not listen to the previous report it's the warmest summer in moscow for fifty years and you know that's a very important part think fifty years ago it was warmer. so what happened fifty years ago that's a pre-industrial that's pre this huge expansion of industrial activity pre-development. so this really. was.

the one of the coldest summers on record in los angeles where where where and where one of the coldest summers in los angeles on record. it's i haven't seen a so this is a classic that is it was the same goes for sixty six degrees all of a serious three meals a six degrees colder than normal you know it was a mistake yesterday that washington is harder than spain for one hundred thirty years one hundred thirty years ago it was harder so what caused that it was and it wasn't global warming it's called weather it's a big planet there will be extreme weather all over it and i want. to tell you it was all trying to channel. well i was. calmed down and had only. to listen as well i would say one of the issues is one of the is going to go this is why i like the climate getting emails ok let's but one of the things that

people say go back to the climate these days constantly the flying if i say the more i learn that when there's hartwell or if they push it up mark if i could ask you how do this how does the scientific community get around the argument that we just heard that ok it was fifty years ago it was cold twenty five years ago i mean it's incumbent upon folks like yourself to kind of convince people like our guest in los angeles why that is the case it's because intuitively he's right because it was quite a few years ago no more i want marquee names or go ahead go ahead yeah no i completely agree with you and the problem is you do need to have some basic understanding of statistics to see the difference here if it was you know if it was a hot summer every hundred years through the last thousand yes it's been hot before and it wasn't global warming that caused it but it's now hot if we now get the same kind of heat waves every five years or every ten years or every two years perhaps becoming more frequently and so that reflects a change in the average which reflects the fact the earth is heating up now you

don't you don't have to be a total mathematician but you have to have some basic knowledge and i don't think the gentleman in los angeles either understands it or wants to understand it because his goal here is to confuse the public by denying the simple physical realities by warming that's why attributed by to. motives to someone you disagree with markets a great attitude attribute b.s. motives to someone you disagree with me are you interested in science are you interested in debate or are you just interested in b.s. insults say i'm not interested calling me a denier linking me to the denial of the holocaust all those basically want to help you listen to the issues when you join the others around this reason and it's just just a natural if you listen to call the televisual the old phil jones from the climate gets i've used mike's trick to hide the flying hide to the clay those are very significant words what. do you know what you are doing just fine i remember you use mike's trick the hi do you understand what about email was talking about typing that line to tell you what you're talking about hiding in the train on time but

your phone. line in temperature of the time it's only when you're from science and because our story of course that you can stick with it actually stick. right so tell me come on tell me the difference explain to me what was missing in the context context context this is the mindset of so you know that i think you need to be a small of so much of my. journalistic inquiry my journalistic inquiry where you are you the question being funded by oil companies if it is the a b a small us. yes michael mann said there's been an increase in temperature in the last hundred years did that in the nature article phil jones says i've used makes trick to hide the decline so that's actually been declining temperatures recently and they've used a trick to hide it so. let's pretend it's hot all over the world to know that this was really into the internet for serious crimes and you actually want to quote the climate game if you actually want to understand what was a crime and you know i'm just one of us is that. we can't explain it and that's

a disgrace. i mean i should probably just quote from it so you know you said we're not get involved conversation because they're for their wonderful source they're wonderful source of information about the tricks and the deceptions that these climate alarmists to use you know you to prove you know what i don't know what are you doing to me and this was this was like you know you're in the you have. been here a little bit putting plenty of it where it bothers me so much people know i'm sorry let me jump in here with really bothers me and i'm not pointing any fingers on this program here but there is a lot of finger pointing at each other and i still it really befuddles me i mean if we really care about the planet why can't we find some kind of consensus why do we have this kind of arguing when we know i mean if it isn't global warming how do we just deal with climate change ok that's kind of a compromise here because it sounds like there are i guess i'm not pointing fingers on this program but each side of this debate says the other one has all teary or

motives that are very very bad alexander have you to address that because it seems like the discourse is just fraying and we're not getting anywhere. well i mean you know. let me let me disclose something here i am not an atmospheric scientist i am not an atmospheric scientist that is an international panel it's the who is who of international atmosphere scientists ocean ocean scientist natural scientists and international panel it's the who is who of who has something to say ok and they come to very clear reports and i just want people who watch this program to look at these reports as very good summaries easy to understand summaries those are not all amiss though this is mainstream science of a number one number two. in the last fifteen years there hasn't been one single let me read pete this one single article out there that that made it passed by

a peer review board that's actually dolling two things either that it's the temperature is warming and that this is recorded and secondly that human cost greenhouse gases are the main culprit for this that's not going on and i'll explain i want right to know about the lives like i mean like like me like actual scientists by the filmmaker and that allows and other things that he can change. things i don't want to call you a liar so the question should really go to me it's like i was only known in law you're a liar so i have to assume that you are your miss. and i have to assume that the dude just misinformed richard let you see that you had a saying because for example from mit yet richard richard lindzen has published many many many papers challenging that actually on science if you just call richard lindsey's the head of a written notice these about i don't know richard lindzen he's the head of atmospheric sami's one you can instead of i'm out on this race as i think i have to

do with my shoes institute of technology he's the one that has the want to solidify although i have to make a centimeter no use an example still science said there was no sign. now we also know you know as alexander was in the lenses i want it and i'm not going to go through it i'll go through a list of the scientific papers if you like but alexander was i just quoted take you know you all right john i'm going to say out of germany and we just run out of time saying if you like there is a very very lively article of the way thanks to my guests today in oxford new york and los angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rule. if you. want.

to be so much brighter if you live. from silence to question. these flames totty dot com.

but i guess this is all see coming to you live from moscow a quick check of the headlines. a russian investigation into the sinking of a south korean warship in march and counting as the u.s. and investigation of blames the communist north that's according to a south korean newspaper. the sun thousands of bottles of dangerous chemicals could reach the russian border within a week also been pushed into

a river by the laws of north eastern china. also the governor of the u.s. state of arizona is set to appeal against a federal court ruling that revokes possibly new immigration or a section in the controversial bill gave police the right to question suspects about their immigration status. to take small then scorching temperatures great ball skirts the mercury reaches a second record high in a week and the relief is expected over the weekend with a brain. that's the headline is up next also used to call a job date delves into the world of three d. and how it could soon be in or living dreams coming your way just about.