if you will about sweating it out a good part of the world is experiencing a crippling heat wave is this a trend or simply freaky weather one thing is certain extreme temperatures are again fuelling the debate on climate change. and you can. discuss what's happening to the weather i'm joined by mark linus and oxford he's an environmentalist and climate change author in new york we have alexander ochs director of world watches institute climate and energy program and in los angeles we cross to phelim mcaleer he's a journalist and documentary filmmaker and another member of our cross talk team and the hunger all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want mark and i to go to you in oxford first what the hell is going on with the weather and i say that with a great deal of passion because moscow is baking this is russia it's shouldn't be

happening here at least that's what i always believed why are we having such high temperatures around the world in places which you would never expect it. well first up you've got to distinguish between weather and climate ok if we're going to look at whether we're experiencing climate change and global warming you need to bear that in mind that climate is the average of weather over a longer period so with the heat waves that we're seeing these are reflective of a broader trend towards warming so i think you can say that we're now seeing the first effects of global warming in the way that these heat waves are now coming more often and they're hitting more severely and hitting harder in the places where we're told we get local cooling already i was i. was going anywhere that i didn't think would happen so i'm sorry go ahead i had let him go ahead go ahead well yeah you can talk about the count de mar according to mark linus you can't talk about individual weather events when it's cold weather when there's cold weather no that's got nothing to do with the cloud but that's got nothing or that's just

a one off event then when it gets hot which it does somewhere in the world every so often then that's indicative of climate change they that's the thing with these climate alarmists they change their rules to suit their own argument they change the facts to suit their own argument and the people are self are working people who depend upon cheap energy for their jobs it was usually not lazy going to the basic research the slightest using point of. using your human intelligence and your computer are saying this doesn't care about the purse people of the planet. all right now i can get you to. close here where it was cold in america when it was cold and. i made a big point i was told tired one time again this is cold weather this is not climate and i want to warm you want to say oh this is climate and we need to do we need to cut in an industry we need to cut the hopes of millions of people in the developing world take away their or their hold of our fossil future and industrial future condemn hundreds of millions of people in the developing world to

a pre-industrial. existence which means. increasing child mortality and short british you made your point morris wants to reply and we want to go ahead mark go ahead and jump in. well it which it was just to make the point actually that we're talking about averaging out weather here so rather than looking at different events and saying the least reflect something or they don't you have to look at longer term changes and there's less and less cold events and there's more and more hot events and that shows that the baseline is changing and the reason for this is basic physics i mean climate deniers like problem over there may may try and go against the rules of physics but the rest would have to live by them and the fact is that if you put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere principally carbon dioxide the system the earth system the climate will heat up there's no way you can deny that it's provable in a bar or a tree the question is how much it'll heat up and by and by and by when and that's where the scientific uncertainties are but we're running a huge risk with our children's future and with our own future if we continue to

dump these pollutants into the atmosphere as if there were no tomorrow and then listen to deniers like from him who pretend it's not exist not happening presumably in order to benefit powerful industrial interests like the oil come out all right i want to hear alexander first because we haven't heard how you know that all xander in new york please go ahead thank you very much well i guess at this point i want to make two comments here one is we bring together the scientists the leading scientists in the world those who have peer reviewed journal articles in a very open and very transparent process in which governments also have some sort of an oversight in this say in it since many years starting in one thousand nine hundred two and that's of course a u.n. panel called the international panel on climate change thousands of the real scientists and not the allam is on either side maybe and these these scientists come to very clear reports and they report in two thousand and seven the most recent one states that the influence of human beings on the climate is without any

doubt and it also say just you know it's basically it's not just physical sciences and we can go back and it's recorded that the warming in the last century was warming of zero. point seven four degree celsius so this is one point i want to make i really want to move forward and talk about solutions rather than doubting the science i think the science is clear that as well as i as i like i don't like to change. yeah i mean i was that you might always agree is a low. point nine percent of climate scientists are going to do with their hundred percent in saying i want to just let me general manager and i design even if it was very very demanding and explaining. that now xander finishes point i know this is a contentious issue go ahead you can finish if you pull that is the second here's the second point so one is about the observation today and the second and there is there's going to be

a war in the future and this is clear beyond any doubt in my point of view the second thing that i wanted to make is what is this great fossil fuel future that you're lining out here i mean i think you basically want to lock in people with us or you know all the usual cause of life's on a daily basis local pollution local water pollution you want to maybe lock them in with a diesel generator the fuel of which they can't afford in five or ten years anymore yeah i mean you look at our solution. in the in the in the really in the really very literal sense of the ok gentlemen looks like we've got two sides here go ahead in los angeles you want to reply to that it's not it's not my solution it's the solution that is me and marc rich it is the solution that is made alex rich it's a solution that means i can live in a rich society with all the benefits that brings it's a fossil fuel solution that marc and alex want to deny for the purpose of people on the planet alex talks about the i.p.c.c. saying it has warmed up in these public documents but i prefer i prefer when

scientists talk privately like in the claimant get emails and member that scientists who say that the truth is that house and warm the last fifteen years and it's a disgrace that we can't explain why we've gone through. this a few days it's warm you know weather changes. it always will it always has warmer weather is good for agricultural productivity at least email if she's e-mails i just missed it didn't cost millions of jobs will cost hundreds of millions of jobs across the across america across europe across russia and deny the chance of a future to hundreds of millions in the developing world i don't want to make some ridiculous conspiracy theories and i will to this or is it possible feels ok mark go ahead jump in there go ahead mark what i just i just. was like martin let's go ahead yeah this whole climate gate business i mean it does add fuel to the conspiracy theory fires that you hear from the climate change denial side but the fact is that if anyone is private emails or scouts all over the internet it will be embarrassing there are things that were said in private which i don't think showed

climate science in the greatest light but the fact is it doesn't change any of the basics of what we understand about the way the climate works in the way we understand about the effects of greenhouse gases you can pretend the risks don't exist you can pretend that they're always going to stay the same you can pretend that burning fossil fuel has no interest has no effect rather but as i say that's just sticking your head in the sand if you've got that knowledge mark you know if you think you've got to let me just finish up let me finish up if you think you've got our attention off of your other great you go do you go down the road and see somebody who's who's not an expert and ask their opinion or do you go to an oncologist if you've got a heart problem you go to a you know a cardio cardiologist don't you so you need to listen to the experts here in the experts ninety eight ninety nine percent when i do that we have a problem and we've got to start dealing with it ok alexander i'd like to go to you and i want to find i think the example of really strict guidelines only xander please ok we just heard that there's a lot of consensus within the scientific community and i'm going to take mark's word for that ok but one of the problems i have is

a bystander i'm not an expert on any of this ok i did really badly in science in high school but what has happened to the message about climate change because we keep we're told over and over and over again the scientists disagree we have these emails floating around i mean alexander his the whole message about climate change been modeled in the media partly responsible for that too because it's really blown it out of proportion sometimes. i you know you are you're actually hitting hitting a really good point here and it is that the media is playing its role and i don't think it's purpose you know on purpose reporting about anything wrong here but it always has a tendency to show both sides in this case the problem is just as mark has has said that eighty ninety eight percent ninety nine percent of the scientists maybe even more actually do agree on the basic facts they do agree that the work that the

temperature has warmed on an average scale over the last one hundred years and it's actually not true at all that it has coal cooled down in the last fifteen years it has actually what the last fifteen years on average are the hottest on record that we have experienced so so we. agree on that the thing is for the media you want to have somebody who who shows the other side so that makes these five or ten people that are out there that actually still study nine yet maybe a few more maybe of the dozen i don't really care too much about them but that makes them very prominent and they have hardly any reason to give up the world that they are playing fight frankly guess that you know i'm in los angeles i did get one minute before we got to the break is it really that much consensus in the scientific community from your perspective well i'm lucky enough to be old enough when i went to school in the seventy's to be told by my geography teacher we were renting we're entering a new i see it double to consensus back then so scientific and satellite is not

true so you know in other areas you can argue because. no no sorry i was taught in school that's not a myth i was told at school that we were and when you're just really sure you are not going to know that i'm fine i feel if you let myself get after it if you look at my documentary if you look at my documentary not evil just wrong we even go back and show all the newspapers show the cuttings from time magazine then use scientific advances are was one of them is known as i see it inside it was in all it was in the irish times the new york times it was a consensus no scientist was saying they were wrong the cia reports that the american state department reports same rancher in a new era of. a year of ice age are in gentlemen i'm going to have to jump in right here why all right gentlemen gentlemen ok we have to go to a break after a short break we'll continue our debate on climate change stay with our team. and.

the state has provided citizens with. high it's a. tough sell to put. out as a problem like. when the government sits tight. like less. likely. to be killing hundreds of.

miles. to be so much brighter if you live. from months to. come. to say good. luck to the lucky. welcome back i'm peter lavelle tree mind you we're talking about extreme weather around the world. and you can see the plumbing. but first let's see if russians believe in global warming. some of plugging he quake what's next all over the world people experiencing extreme weather unusual for their region for the season and in general

precedent russia is experiencing the hottest summer in over fifty years coming on the heels of a loan and they're recalled went up the high temperatures have seen poorest five raids and droughts athletic rushes crop yield but has the normal heatwave convinced russian change skeptics according to a recent public opinion poll almost half of russians forty nine percent now accept the principle of global warming thirty three percent remain unconvinced however deny global warming is with us peter are a gentleman we're talking about differences within maybe the scientific community maybe there is. a large majority in a small minority but at the end of the day it's kind of turned into the climate industry because a lot of people write about it people make films about it there are scientists

involved non scientists involved there are people who go it both extremes if i go to you alexander the climate industry in a way everyone arguing everyone is kind of benefitting in their own private way but does it really help us understand where we should be going well i mean there's clearly a lot of people out there that are not. profiting from from just talking and not acting and you know there's a very clear economic case apart from an energy security case a military security case and environmentalists there's a clear economic case to make to really act on it and every day actually not acting we're losing we're losing economically we're losing people's lives the science has so greatly progress over the last years and i'm a very surprised to see the gentleman from from los angeles talking about what scientists thought in one thousand seven hundred. i mean we that was probably around the time still when we thought that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer and we had a time where very powerful people on this planet actually validate that the earth

is of all in it's not drowned it's actually flat so we're having these these i think we have to overcome this last stage it is really in our interest in our and economic interest to act and not just not just talk about it of course it's an issue that touches people very personally and you know again the gentleman from los angeles talking before about our rich lives in the cities you know we hardly feel these heat waves yes it's hot outside but you know we really experience climate actually really rather as the whether it's our tomorrow. it's raining that's way number led to where that's the kind of way we experience it but if you go outside of the cities if you talk to the farmers worldwide if you talk to the people who live closer to nature they going to tell you these stories is happening right now and actually over the last ten years and i'm really frank and honest about this i had a lot of climate deniers in my group of friends people you know who didn't believe too much into it and a lot of them have changed because they see the grass getting yellow in the summer

in places like vancouver where that has and they were marching out before and nobody remembered that this happened so they see that firsthand and i think skews i mean excuse me gentlemen as it touches people. in the more you know the good gentleman in los angeles is making films about it and that's his right and it's interesting because you sound like he's even did you not listen to them. they did not listen they did not listen to the alex they did not listen to the previous report it's the warmest summer in moscow for fifty years and you know that's a very important part think fifty years ago it was warmer. so what happened fifty years ago. that's pre this huge expansion of industrial activity pre-development. doing this so this really. was july and then you want to have the coldest summers on record in los angeles where where

where and where one of the coldest summers in los angeles on record. i haven't seen this so this is a classic that is why don't we see the same goes for sixty six degrees all of a series of the three is i mean it's six degrees colder than normal you know it was a statistic yesterday that washington is harder than spain for one hundred thirty years one hundred thirty years ago it was harder so what caused that it was and it wasn't global warming it's called weather it's a big planet there will be extreme weather all over it and i want. to tell you how it was all trying to channel. while i was. coming down to only. jam into the cloud all i would say one of the issues it is one of the issues is god is why back to the climate get e-mails ok let's let's but one of the things that people say go back to the climate these days constantly that flying if i find a more modern one that when they talk well or if they push it up mark if i could

ask you how do this how does the scientific community get around the argument that we just heard that ok it was hard fifty years ago it was cold twenty five years ago i mean it's incumbent upon folks like yourself to kind of convince people like our guest in los angeles why that is the case it's because intuitively he's right because it was quite a few years ago no more i want mark these are go ahead go ahead yeah no i completely agree with you and the problem is you do need to have some basic understanding of statistics to see the difference here if it was you know if it was a hot summer every hundred years through the last thousand yes it's been hot before and it wasn't global warming that caused it but it's now hot if we now get the same kind of heat waves every five years or every ten years or every two years perhaps becoming more frequently and so that reflects a change in the average which reflects the fact the earth is heating up now you don't you don't have to be a total mathematician but you have to some basic knowledge and i don't think the gentleman in los angeles either understands it or want to understand it because his

goal here is to confuse the public by denying the simple physical reality of my warming that's why i attribute bad. motives to someone you disagree with markets a great attitude attribute b.s. motives to someone you disagree with me are you interested in science are you interested in debate or are you just interested in trolling b.s. insults say i'm not interested calling me a denier linking me to the denial of the holocaust all those b.s. really want to help others and you were there when this was when you join the just around this reason and it just goes on the measurability doesn't matter. walt phil jones from climate gets i've used mike's trick to hide the trying hide to the clay those are very significant words what. do you know what you are doing just fine i remember you use mike's trick the hi do you understand what about email was talking about typing that if you want to tell you what you're talking about hiding in the train on time but your phone. line intelligent i don't mean you're from stunned silence fell because requests that you stick a stick. right so tell me come on tell me the difference explain to me what was

missing in the context context context this is the mindset of so you know there's a few for me to be a small of so much to my. journalistic inquiry my journalistic inquiry where you the question being funded by oil companies because the a b a small us. yes michael mann said there's been an increase in temperature in the last hundred years aided that in the nature article phil jones says i'd make strict to hide the decline so that's actually been declining temperatures recently and they've used a trick to hide it so. let's pretend it's hard all over the world to know that this was it was really entertaining or serious crimes and you actually want to quote the climate game if you actually want to understand what it was a time and you know you just want to use it. we can't explain it and that's a disgrace. i mean i should probably just quote from it so you know you said we're not getting all the conversation because there are there are a wonderful source they're wonderful source of information about the tricks and the

deceptions that these climate alarmists to use you know you to prove you know what i don't know was true then why was this was like being here in the us. been here a little bit. bothers me so much people no i'm sorry let me jump in here with really bothers me and i'm not pointing any fingers on this program here but there is a lot of finger pointing at each other and i still it really befuddles me i mean if we really care about the planet why can't we find some kind of consensus why do we have this kind of arguing when we know i mean if it isn't global warming how do we just deal with climate change ok that's kind of a compromise here because it sounds like there are you know i guess i'm not pointing fingers on this program but each side of this debate says the other one has all teary or motives that are very very bad alexander have you to address that because it seems like the discourse is just for a. we're not getting anywhere. well i mean you know. let me let me disclose

something here i am not an atmospheric scientist i am not an atmospheric scientist that is an international panel it's the who is who of international atmosphere scientist ocean ocean scientist natural scientists and international panel it's the who is who of who has something to say ok and they come to very clear reports and i just want people who watch this program to look at these reports as very good summaries easy to understand summaries those are not all i miss though this is mainstream science ok number one and number two. in the last fifteen years there hasn't been one single. people one single article out there that that made it passed by a peer review board that's actually doubting two things either that it's the temperature is warming and that this is recorded and secondly the human cost

greenhouse gases are the main culprit for this that's not going on and. explain i want right to know who has led only me. actual scientists by the filmmaker in that loss and other things that he can change. things i don't want to call you a liar so the question should really go to me like i was only known on in law you're a liar so i have to assume that you are your mistress. and i have to assume that the dude just misinformed richard lee you see they had a saying because for example from mit yet richard richard lindzen has published many many many papers challenging that actually on science if you just call richard lindzen he's the head of a written notice the crowd on a richard lindzen he's the head of atmospheric sami's one you can instead of iraq on the next as i think i have to do with my shoes institute of technology he's the one that has the want to start a fire although i think you said to me i know you said alexander was no sign. yes

alex said there was no science that i will say my dear yours alexander was in the wings as i wanted it and i'm not going to trial i'll go through a list of the scientific papers if you like but alexander was just quote i would take you know i'll write generally to just anyone will run out of time saying with a seal sales are a very very likely article of the way thanks to my guests today in oxford new york and los angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. and you can.

from fines to. start

time t.v. dot com. forest fires ripped through central russia killing dozens and leaving thousands more homeless join me later for more. of this our emergency crews are scanning the river in china for barrels of highly explosive chemicals which could reach russia in two weeks. and living in fear germany looks forced to scrap a system that keeps some convicts behind indefinitely but many say releasing them would put the public at risk. live from our studios here in central moscow this is r t with twenty four hours

a day forest fires have killed at least twenty five people in the thousands homeless in central russia as a heat wave grips much of the country the situation has escalated following weeks of record breaking temperatures. reports now from a village ravaged by the only forty kilometers from moscow. just take a look at the damage around me here these charge remains show what can happen when record heat meets drought like conditions and this was somebody is home and look nothing here is as it once was everything has been demolished now this family made it out ok but they're heartbroken you know they worked hard to accumulate things to keep the family comfortable and together and now look at it it's all demolished and that's been the story throughout central russia where forest fires have ripped through the central area killing twenty five people and leaving two thousand homeless so now people are trying to figure out what's the next step how do they go

on.