physics ok and when i'm told the project the great collider can reproduce the nano second after the big bang how can you explain that to me why is that important and what it what does it mean and how can it change our life. well the first few nanoseconds after the big bang the whole universe was in a very tiny place it was very hot and it was composed of many different things some of which we don't know what we can do with the sea is create conditions in a very small space that are like that first nano second and look at what nature was like right at the beginning of the universe that tells us more about what the universe is made of and how it's put together and in many ways we can't do that without making these experiments to recreate those conditions because maîtresse so cold now thirteen billion years after the big bang so we have to do something to recreate that early early conditions to get access to see things that were there right at the creation the start of our universe evolving ok and in line and also

all right let's say what we just heard you know we can find out we can find out those things with these experiments so what yeah so what. well i mean first of all it's basic science and basic science has always been an imperative for human beings we always wonder to understand our own environment ourselves where we come from what might happen to us so in a sense there is it's just answering fundamental questions about our own existence and some of some scientists will argue that you don't need more for justification than that but saying that there are enormous benefits to understanding our environment our understanding nature around us you just have to go back to the early twentieth century when quantum physics was happening and i'm sure people would have wondered about the whole importance of trying to understand the underpinnings of matter that level and today what we're doing talking across continents using television and sophisticated electronics all of that is possible

only because we understand matter at that level so you know the sort question may not be obvious when we are doing the experiments but it eventually does become very very useful and it is a basic human impulse ok i don't find very good guard i mean is this a good idea this collider is this a step forward are we going in the right dr direction when i talk about the expense of it and what we get out of it later but how do you feel about these experiments here we recreating the big bang and all this. because he didn't mention this wonderful islam is risks taking into account is something really going to oppose it and. the problem is only that there are some risks which are not being missed in the other words the attention is nice even don't really see the big bang it's just the other gee maybe we would find out what we're going to be doing is great but not with an experiment eventually so the experiments are important

nonetheless in this case there is an infinite risk which must not be taken ok. ok auto can you expand can you extract played on that what is the risk you're saying there is risk can you give us a percentage the you know the chances of something going wrong because a collider had some problems not long ago and they fixed it so it can break i suppose so what are the risks. it could i was actually running at the moment as far as i know and the risk is proportional to the number of collisions that are being made or have already been made. and the risk is absurd i mean. in nature you see there was some somebody called bacon in the history of his science who said that one has to fight with nature people don't know that anymore that it's it's sometimes dangerous to fight with nature and sometimes nature is

fighting back in my experience here is that this is such a complicated situation it has happened that several problems have been overlooked which mean that this is a true in horse this experiment everybody is happy to have it but unfortunately it might mean the end of of the planet ok jordan that's a pretty big statement coming from that to this is this is just scaremongering. it's clearly just scaremongering i mean what we're doing is is actually doing something that happens all the time in nature and the unique thing we're doing is we're putting a collision it happens all the families are in a situation a lot more and more where we're going along with it comes out our journey you want to continue to be like i do know better i do know that go ahead george if i can give a few details i mean what all those worried about is that there's there's something seriously i think this is one of the really might of creating a kind of more stick. i'm going jordan one more time given it give it a shot where you can say we're making mistakes but yet ok so what i'm trying to say

speak out is worried and many people have been worried by the idea that we may know there's many black holes in the in the collision ok i mean you can argue in essence one of the predictions is that. is that this could happen and the argument i'm making is simply that in fact what we're doing the collisions we're making in the laboratory happen all the time and nature it's not something that we wouldn't see happening around us if if these kind of collisions made many black holes that were able to eat planets it would have happened nature is doing this constantly all right i mean i'd like to go to you how do you know. i don't like to go to anyone london here i mean how safe is this because in researching this program i came across contrarian voices there was a petition before the machine was turned on to have it not turned on to take that seriously or not i'm not a scientist but there are people concerned out there is this an exaggerated concern

. i think it's an exaggerated concern i mean there was just to give you an example in two thousand there was a collator starting up in the united states called rick r h i c and similar concerns when great were raised about the rick being able to produce something called a strange little particle that will eventually devour the earth and nothing like that has happened at all there is agree with jordan completely this is a lot of scaremongering and you know it's interesting that it's just the same people talking about this there or. you can go to the cern website and for instance look up all the papers that have been written on this and have been peer reviewed by scientists so you know one thing i would like to point out that these are you know thousands of scientists are working on this project and we know the thousands of scientists are working on this project a lot of you know their careers are taken they don't want to be devoured by a black hole i mean that would be silly so you know there might be noble prices in

there waiting for some people and to think that all of that will go to waste because you know if a black hole they're not foolish enough to do that themselves so you have to keep that in mind not foolish you know ok i know i'm going to go ahead i know go ahead you know so they are avoiding to discuss to discuss this group strangely and i disagree i think. this is a completely tremendous amount of discussion. no no not with me i mean let me just say that i mean i think there are certain scientists have taken very seriously the objections and actually gone through and calculated no they have not. that are against the science they have done you know it's. going to be material you don't publish as a full document. ok. ok. hereis tell us one for you ok otto i mean but we have two other gases saying that the risks have been checked very carefully i went to the website i looked at all of

the objections and they gave answers to what i mean why are you not satisfied with that they have not looked at. selectively answered only those questions which seemed safe to do but we fusing to discuss the dangers that have not been disproved it is not science ok can you give us one example did you give it could you give us one example yes. yes. what already has been said by gordon a few minutes ago when we did the same thing was was happening all the time and therefore that this must be say this is in the in one sense it just clicked in another sense it is a lie so we to say used that word because there's a difference between two trains hitting both in the same direct both with the same speed so we don't know how it i'm looking on this screen this is not the same thing

as if you do the same thing in such a way that the two things that the whole thing is moving at a high speed this is called. momentum conservation and if if one particle is at rest and the other is hitting very fast as it happens all the time then the producta the little black hole that might be generated would be itself very very fast and therefore it would go right through the earth ok all right all right gentlemen if there is after a short break we will continue our discussion on the large hadron collider stay with r.t. . if you. think you can.

discover it. communicate with the want to. test yourself and become free to. see what nature can give you. it.

fs. first.

welcome back cross talk time peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about whether the large hadron collider poses a threat to humanity or is a unique tool of discovery. but before let's see what russians think about this the large hadron collider or c. is a twenty seven kilometer long particle accelerator on the swiss franc border first experiments were held there in two thousand and eight and physicists hold the elysee will help answer some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of our universe color some cold cold to the collider fearing the poet unleashes

could swallow their public opinion foundation poll fall thirty six percent of russians think l.h. c. is dangerous all humankind and the other thirty one percent disagree believing that collider poses no threat by the same token russians listed the l h c launch as one of the top three most important events of two thousand and nine back to you. ok and you know i'd like to go back to you in london you know the critics of the of this these types of experiments say that you could actually really change the world that we're maybe maybe not creating a black hole that will swallow the world up in the rest of the universe but i mean we really you guys are really on the edge here is a is what are the chances that something could go wrong that you would you would find out something that you never expected and you know in my limited knowledge of this studying for the program you guys are really out there on the edge. you mean

what could happen in terms of the end it seemed functioning and something happening that changes what i was saying this guy or you guys on a large has everything been thought about that you could discover or uncover or trigger well peter i'm a journalist so i talk to the scientists to find out what they have been thinking about these things and as far as i can be i you get that sure go ahead jordan. go ahead i mean i think one of the reasons we do scientists is to find out what's out there and in fact we have some ideas of what might be there but we don't know all the answers and by studying we find new things and you know some time later we actually understand what it all means when we discovered how the atom was put together we didn't know we'd be able to harness the energy from it when we discovered how electrons and quantum mechanics and you're brought up earlier these are things fundamental discoveries that you don't know you're going to find and that's why we go looking for things now when it comes to triggering things here and i just repeat what i said before we're not triggering things we're exploring we're

looking in new corners and finding out new things we're giving humanity more information about the world we live in and eventually that may lead to us being able to do things we didn't think possible today but it's one of the things about voyages of discovery you don't know where you're going to go until you actually go there what do you think about that how do you that is correct go ahead i know this is correct as far as science is like this and it's a wonderful individual and want to just use the standards of safety so if if there is someone who says there is a lowly. piece of luggage on an airplane airport this is sufficient to launch an investigation with this could not be a bone and if someone has provided such evidence there's evidence must not be suppressed from the public and the world because if you do that you use violence against the world and this is what sin is doing at the moment as long as these concerns have not been disproved it's not just opinions it's proof that has been

given of danger ok i know there's a proof of danger i don't know you make it sound like this is talking too much no no no you're not there you can never talk too much on this program but you're making it sound like cern is a conspiracy is that what you're saying yes that's correct yes there's not just conspiracy hiding out there through thousands of letters this is a happy time i think we have to jump in here because this this is just since you guys have to present. if you jump in anytime you want go neil go right ahead we have jimmy and i mean this sounds this this is been an auto has been saying this over and over again i've heard him speak about this many a time and you would think that scientists elsewhere are fools not to pay attention to such claims i mean you know they have looked into all these concerns and then the committees oh look there's no it's pronounced no i disagree joining will also speak to it ok jordan can you jump in there please go ahead as a conspiracy is just george go ahead please i mean the idea of this concern is

a conspiracy is. absolutely madness i mean it is a completely. one of the. scientists all throughout the world share information like this or how the information these are things like i'll scientists otto can you give us why there is no hidden whatsoever can you can you give us one example where cern is lying to the scientific community and the rest of us one example yes yes. it is to see example that we already heard from jordan they did was the same thing so it's doing it was nature is doing but there's a difference which we don't talk about. and this difference. in the situation to pay to address exactly that point absolutely it's clearly today and exactly this objection. all right it is not true so i mean i don't buy this was really serious to really seriously obviously it's something that we wouldn't want

to do and have any risk it all has to. do have a minute to explain just a little bit ok very quickly i don't because i want to hear from our other guest to please go ahead. yes. now. it's not so easy you see. there are proofs of danger peter just to it's just a short thing this little bit i mean the concern that auto has and he's been voicing this over and over again and there is you can go to the certain web site and they address said directly so i don't think we should waste too much time on talking about this new law and i have been to the idea i visited the website before we did the program and as i agree with jordan i looked at all of the objections and i looked at all of the answers and i'm asking otto here if why are you not satisfied with that because i come across in the blog sphere that we could be you know geneva could disappear in a nanosecond ok and no one's explained to me why that could possibly happen but i

do see them a lot of spirit and we have two scientists on the program or a journalist who writes on science and scientists that are saying that there is really no risk involved at all. how used. them is there is no peer review right the blogosphere is an open place where anyone can say whatever they want what i mostly made in a certain place science has going for it is that scientists have have a chance to actually give the arguments and refute them in a way that you can publicly defend where in the blogs where you can say what you want are a general and i'd like to kind of change the topic a little bit because i don't think we're really making much progress here neal what it is i do see what the scientists telling you about it. because it could be used for the military to be used for star trek you know these kind of things i mean what is the application of positive obligation and we'll if i go to you in line go ahead

so peter you have to award the first thing we have to understand is that this is basic science right now like jordan said we are exploring nature and in order to understand what might happen in terms of applications you have to go back to look at experiments that were done earlier similar experiments which at that time were basic science and the offshoot of those experiments is all around us and you can go you can go into any cancer therapy laboratory or hospital today and you will see you will see the x. ray machines you know proton beams neutron beams all of it being used for cancer therapy so why use them there's a lot of why you know ok. no no no it's not one person's claim it is well known of. this beautiful example although you're the only person who goes out and speaks about this. no no no no no i have given proofs and soon is refusing to prove disprove disproved and more over

. certain is hiding facts when the public so on is hiding the fact that there is an experiment absolutely not. so it's not completely or know what i'm going to say the least does not contradict me if i had really short answers you know you've made a statement. concerning this information and i soon what you're saying why you don't want to hear what i say that's nice to of you to admit thank you i don't you have like a motto you have just floors me or you make it very clear but are all you have to say if you are your state can you make it very angry or maybe very brief go ahead. yes it certainly is claiming that the little black holes generated by nature which must exist soon will reproduce them very fast which is correct therefore they should get stuck in neutral stars and have already destroyed newton stars if these mini black holes hope for it soon were dangerous this argument is very good except

for one thing neutron stars are super fluids inside therefore there is no there and they are not being stopped inside their foot neutron star stars happen to be saved by quantum mechanics and i'm saying that i'm not alone famous nobel prize winner is behind me but this can be tested by an experiment possible at cern cern knows this since july two thousand and eight but syrian is claiming before the world that this was known that this is not dangerous and they are hiding the fact this is can be tested ok not make a test to assure the planet before you act ok joining out can you respond to that i'm not a scientist most of my viewers aren't i mean i think again again you have to read the papers carefully and auto makes an objection that. if you interpret somebody in the way he said this was an easy way to join please ensure you finish so you're

going to go ready to do so so i oppose us so so that the way the argument certain is answered is that ok i'll is that. if there's a moving black hole which is what all those worried about these will also be captured by neutron stars so there it's the mass its surrounding and the slow movement of the neutron star which would have again eaten all this material up so again this is the this scientific refutation didn't go forward so why the moving argument doesn't work all right gentlemen we've run out of time here in the i want to say i've run out i want to thank our guests in london and in stuttgart and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. and.

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fires have been ravaging central russia for over a month the devastation continues for the updates joining us in a few moments. now a new sixty five years after the u.s. dropped a second atomic bomb on the japanese city of nagasaki survivors call for complete global nuclear disarmament. still untouchable although officially illegal faced discrimination in india goes on party also ways of bridging and built social divisions. it is eight am in the russian capital you're watching r.t.l. marina joshua welcome to the program i wende of change that's what millions of

russians living under a suffocating blanket of smog are praying for for days the sick layer of haze caused by forest impede fires has been hanging over manning cities including the capital moscow hundreds of blazes are still burning nationwide with other countries stepping in to help battle the fires or we now talk to countrymen to get the latest on the situation in the moscow region good morning to you in a so tell us how bad is just the situation where you are at the moment. marina we're outside of moscow in one of the villages that has been damaged and devastated by the recent forest and peat fires that russia has been suffering for for over a month being here is almost apocalyptic because on the one hand you have huge ira that we used to be a forest and is now just charred land and felled trees on the other hand where we're standing right now this this used to be someone's home what's left of it is

just charred remains you can just about barely make out outlines of furniture there's a bathtub there are some kitchen utensils lying around on the ground but everything else is unrecognizable burned to beyond recognition and of course this is just one of hundreds of homes that were turned to dust and ashes in a matter of hours leaving people homeless in this situation across the country is dire because thousands of homes have burned down leaving even more people homeless and without everything that they've spent their lives accumulating all their belongings everything that they had to went up in smoke literally and they now know they now have nothing to do nowhere to go and they have no idea how to begin rebuilding their lives and dealing with everything that they've had being taken away from them in just a matter of hours over fifty people have died over.