the universe was in a very tiny place it was very hot and it was composed of many different things some of which we don't know what we can do with the only see is create conditions in a very small space better like that first nano second look at what nature was like right at the beginning of the universe it tells us more about what you are says made of and how it's put together and in many ways we can't do that without making new experiments to recreate those conditions because mater is so cold now thirteen billion years after the big bang so we have to do something to recreate their early early conditions to get access to see things that were there right at the creation the start of our universe evolving ok in line and also all right let's say what we just heard you know we can find out we can find out those things through these experiments so what yeah so what. well i mean first of all it's basic science and basic science has always been an imperative for human beings we always wanted to understand our own environment ourselves where we come from what might

happen to us so in a sense there is it's just answering fundamental questions about our own existence and some of some scientists will argue that you don't need more for justification than that but saying that there are enormous benefits to understanding our environment our understanding nature around us you just have to go back to the early twentieth century when quantum physics was happening and i'm sure people would have wondered about the whole importance of trying to understand the underpinnings of matter level and today what we're doing talking across continents using television and sophisticated electronics all of that is possible only because we understand matter at that level so you know the so or question may not be obvious when we are doing the experiments but it eventually does become very very useful and it is a basic human impulse ok i don't find very good guard i mean is this a good idea this collider is this. a step forward are we going in the right dr

direction as i like to talk about the expense of it and what we get out of it later but how do you feel about these experiments here reka recreating the big bang and all this. because he did tension is wonderful as long as we six are taking into account science is something we are going to be positive and chris the problem is only that there are some risks here which are not being addressed enough otherwise the attention is nice and even don't really say that that big bang is just an ideology but maybe that when we tried our twitter the beeping is going to not with an experiment eventually there for such experiments are important nonetheless in this case there is an infinite risk which must not be taken ok ok otto can you expect can you extrapolate on that what is the risk you're saying there is risk can you give us a percentage the you know the chances of something going wrong because a collider had some problems not long ago and they fixed it so it can break i

suppose so what are the risks. if i could i was actually running at the moment as far as i know and the risk is proportional to the number of collisions that are being made or have already been made. and the risk is absurd i mean. nature you see there was some somebody called bacon in the history of his science who said that man has to fight with nature people don't know that anymore that it's it's sometimes dangerous to fight with nature and sometimes nature is fighting back in my experience here is that this is such a complicated situation it has happened that several problems have been overlooked which means that this is a true in horse this experiment everybody is happy to have it but unfortunately it might mean the end of the of the planet ok jordan that's

a pretty big statement coming from that of this is this is just scaremongering go ahead it's clearly just scaremongering i mean what we're doing is is actually doing something that happens all the time in nature and the unique thing we're doing is we're putting a collision that happens all the time later in the situation in a lot of oratory where we're going along about it comes out our journey you want to continue to be like i do know better i do know that go ahead george if i can give a few details i mean what all those worried about is that there's there's something serious i think this is one of the really might create make i'm going to stick. i'm going jordan one more time given it give it a shot where you can say we're making mistakes but yet ok so what i'm trying to say yes to all those worried and many people have been worried by the idea that we may have noticed many black holes in the in the collision ok i mean i can argue in essence one of the predictions is that. is that this could happen and the argument i'm making is simply that in fact what we're doing the collisions we're making in

the laboratory happen all the time and nature it's not something that we wouldn't see happening around us if if these kind of collisions made many black holes that were able to eat planets it would have happened nature is doing this call to our i mean i'd like to go to you how do you know. i don't like to go to anyone london here i mean how safe is this because in researching this program i came across contrarian voices there was a petition before the machine was turned on to have it not turned on to take that seriously or not i'm not a scientist but there are people concerned out there is this an exaggerated concern . i think it's an exaggerated concern i mean there was just to give you an example in two thousand there was a collator starting up in the united states called rick c. and similar concerns wondred were raised about the rig being able to produce something called a strange little particle that would eventually devour the earth and nothing like

that has happened at all there is agree with jordan completely this is a lot of scaremongering and you know it's interesting that it's just the same people talking about this there or. you can go to the cern web site and for instance look up all the papers that have been written on this and have been peer reviewed by scientists so you know one thing i would like to point out that these are you know thousands of scientists who are working on this project and we know the thousands of scientists are working on this project a lot of you know their careers are taken they don't want to be devoured by a black hole i mean that would be silly so you know there might be noble prices in there waiting for some people and to think that all of that will go to waste because you know of a black hole they're not foolish enough to do that themselves so you have to keep that in mind not foolish you know ok oh no go ahead go ahead oh no go ahead you know so they are avoiding to discuss to discuss this group strangely and

really think. this is a completely tremendous amount of discussion. no no not with me i mean let me just say that i mean i think there are certain scientists have taken very seriously the objections and actually gone through and calculated no they have not. that are against the science they have done you know it's. published as a full document. ok. ok. here is tell us one for you ok otto i mean but we have two other gases saying that the risks have been checked very carefully i went to the website i looked at all of the objections and they gave answers to what i mean why are you not satisfied with that they have not looked. selectively answered only those questions which seemed safe to do but we fusing to discuss the dangers that have not been disproved is not

science ok can you give us one example would you give it could you give us one example yes. yes. what already has been said by gordon a few minutes ago when we did the same thing was happening all the time and therefore this must be say this is in the in one sense it is correct in another sense it is a lie so are we to say used that word because there's a difference between two trains hitting both in the same direct both with the same speed so we don't know how it i'm looking on this screen this is not the same thing as if you do the same thing in such a way that the two things that the whole thing is moving at a high speed this is called. momentum conservation and if if one particle is at rest and the other is hitting very fast as it happens all the time then the poor doctor the little black hole that might be generated would be

itself very very fast and therefore it would go right through the earth ok all right all right gentlemen out there after a short break we will continue our discussion on the large hadron collider stay with r.t. . if you. think you can. discover it. communicate with the want to. test yourself and become free to. see what nature can give you.

if. russia would be soon which brightened. about someone from finest impressions. his friend starts on t.v. dot com.

welcome back cross talk time peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about whether the large hadron collider poses a threat to humanity or is a unique tool of discovery. if you.

were before let's see what russians think about this the large hadron collider or belive c. is a twenty seven kilometer long particle accelerator on the swiss franc border first experiments were held there in two thousand and eight and physicists hold the l h c will help answer some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of our universe color and something called pro hauled to the collider fearing the poet unleashes could swallow their public opinion foundation poll found thirty six percent of russians think l.h. c. is dangerous for humankind and the other thirty one percent disagree believing that collider poses no threat by the same token russians listed the l h c a launch as one of the top three most important events of two thousand and nine back to you. ok

and you know i'd like to go back to you in london you know the critics of the of this these types of experiments say that you could actually really change the world that we're maybe maybe not creating a black hole that will swallow the world up in the rest of the universe but i mean we really you guys are really on the edge here is is what are the chances that something could go wrong that you would you would find out something that you never expected and you know in my limited knowledge of this studying for the program you guys are really out there on the edge. you mean what could happen in terms of the end it seemed functioning and something happening that changes what i was saying isn't all the guy all the guys on a large has everything been thought about that you could discover or uncover or trigger well peter i'm a journalist so i talk to the scientists to find out what they have been thinking about these things and as far as i can be i get that sure go ahead jordan.

go ahead i mean i think one of the reasons we do scientists is to find out what's out there and in fact we have some ideas of what might be there but we don't know all the answers and by studying we find new things and you know some time later we actually understand what it all means when we discovered how the atom was put together we didn't know we'd be able to harness the energy from it when we discovered how electrons and quantum mechanics and you're brought up earlier these are things fundamental discoveries that you don't know you're going to find and that's why we go looking for things now when it comes to triggering things here or i just repeat what i said before we're not triggering things we're exploring we're looking in new corners and finding out new things we're giving humanity more information about the world we live in and eventually that may lead to us being able to do things we didn't think possible today but it's one of the things about voyages of discovery you don't know where you're going to go until you actually go there what do you think about that i don't you that this is clearly you go ahead i know this is correct as far as yes science is like this and it's

a wonderful interview and went to just use the standards of safety so if if there is someone who says there is a lowly. piece of luggage on an airplane airport this is sufficient to launch an investigation with this could not be a bone and if someone has provided such evidence there's evidence must not be suppressed from the public and the world because if you do that you use violence against the world and this is what sin is doing at the moment as long as these concerns have not been disproved it's not just opinions it's proof that has been given of danger ok i know there's a proof of danger i don't know you make it sound like this is talking too much no no no you're not there you can never talk too much on this program but you're making it sound like certain is a conspiracy is that what you're saying yes that's correct yes there's not just conspiracy hiding but this through thousands of letters this is peter i think we have to jump in here because there's this sense you guys have to present. if you

jump in anytime you want go neil go right ahead well you have to come to me and i mean this sounds this this has been in order has been saying this over and over again i've heard him speak about this many a time and you would think that scientists elsewhere are fools not to pay attention to such claims i mean you know they have looked into all these concerns and then the committees are like there's no it's pronounced no i disagree completely and then jordan will also speak to it ok jordan can you jump in there please go ahead as a conspiracy is just jordan go ahead please i mean the idea that concern is a conspiracy is. is absolutely madness i mean so it is a completely what i. want to do but it leads to our scientists all throughout the world share information. and i just thought i did so how the information these are things like how long are scientists can you give us why there is no examining hidden whatsoever can you can you give us one example where cern is lying to the scientific community and the rest of us one example yes yes. it is this example

that we already heard from jordan that it was the same thing so it's doing it was interesting but there's a difference which they don't talk about and this difference. i mean if you go to their website today we're going to stray shame to pay to address exactly that point absolutely it's completely ludicrous to say today and exactly this objection. all right it is not true so i mean i don't buy this so much earlier seriously just really seriously obviously it's something that we wouldn't want to do and have any risk it all has the. we want them to have a minute to explain just a little bit ok very quickly i don't because i want to hear from our other guest to please go ahead. yes. now. it's not so easy you see. there are proofs of danger

peter just. just to shorten this a little bit i mean the concern that he's been voicing this over and over again and there is you can go to the cern web site and they address it directly so i don't think we should waste too much time on. the line and i have been to the idea i visited the website before we did the program and as i agree with jordan i looked at all of the objections and i looked at all of the answers and i'm asking otto here if why are you not satisfied with that because i come across in the blog sphere that we could be you know geneva could disappear in a nanosecond ok and no one's explained to me why that could possibly happen but i do see the limbaugh experience and we have two scientists on the program or a journalist who writes on science and scientists that are saying that there is really no risk involved at all. how used. them is there is no peer review right the blogosphere is an open place where anyone can say whatever they want what i mostly made in this thirty three science has

going for it is that scientists have have a chance to actually give the arguments and refute them in a way that you can publicly defend where in the blogs where you can say what you want are a gentleman i'd like to kind of change the topic a little bit because i don't think we're really making much progress here neal what it is i do is one of the scientists telling you about it. because it could be used for the military to be used for star trek you know these kind of things i mean what is the application of positive. if i go to you in line go ahead so peter or you have to award the first thing we have to understand is that this is basic science right now like jordan said we are exploring nature and in order to understand what might happen in terms of applications you have to go back to look at experiments that were done earlier similar experiments which at that time were basic science and the offshoot of those experiments is all around us and you can go you can go into any cancer therapy laboratory or hospital today and you will see you will see

the extra machines you know proton beams neutron beams all of it being used for cancer therapy so why use them there's a lot of why you know. ok. no no no it's not one person's claim it is well known of. this beautiful example although you're the only person who goes out and speaks about this. no no no no no i have given proofs and soon is refusing to prove disprove disproved and more although it certainly is hiding facts from the public so one is hiding the fact that there is an experiment i said absolutely not. so it's not completely gone or what i'm going to say the least contradicts me before i had with initial answers you know you've made a statement. concerning this information and i certainly is hearing what you're saying why you don't want to hear what i say that's nice to of you to admit thank

you i don't you have like a motto you have just floors me when you make it very clear but auto you have to think you are your state can you make it very angry or maybe very brief go ahead. yes it certainly is claiming that little black holes generated by nature which must exist if soon we will produce them very fast which is correct therefore they should get stuck in neutral stars and have already destroyed newton stars if these mini black holes hope for it soon were dangerous this argument is very good except for one thing neutron stars are super fluids inside therefore this no they are not being stopped inside their foot neutron so stars happen to be saved by quantum mechanics and i'm saying that i'm not alone famous nobel prize winner is behind me but this can be tested by an experiment possible at cern cern knows this since july

two thousand and eight but soon is claiming before the world that this was known that this is not dangerous and they are hiding the fact this is can be tested ok not make a test to assure the planet before you act ok jordan now can you respond to that i'm not a scientist most of my viewers aren't i mean i think again again you have to read the papers carefully and auto makes an objection that. if you interpret somebody in the way he said it was an easy way for your reason jordie finished so you're going to go ready to accept these words i apologize so so that the way the argument certain is answered is that ok i'll is that. if there's a moving black hole which is what all those worried about these will also be captured by neutron stars so there it's the mass surrounding and the slow movement of the neutron star which would have again eaten all this material up so again this is the scientific refutation we can go forward so why the the moving argument

doesn't work all right gentlemen we've run out of time here in and i want to say i've run out i want to thank our guests in london and in stuttgart and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t.e. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. first tree removal call clear cut. explosives are used to blast you beat in the. remains in the street. sign it easy for someone who is.

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this used to be somebody's car and this was once a very nice meal there and. just bear with us for a second of this the crisis sparked by wildfires raging across russia shows little sign of easing and authorities say the effects are causing the average death rate to rise dramatically. sorry for the technical problem there this is one of our top stories now on to another one no nukes sixty five years after the u.s. dropped a second atomic bomb on the japanese city of nagasaki survivors call for complete global nuclear disarmament. still untouchable although officially illegal can.

discrimination in india goes on r t looks at ways of bridging age old social divisions. you're watching r t coming to live from moscow apologies for some technical problems there but we begin with the top story a wind of change that's what millions of russians living under a suffocating blanket of smog are praying for for days the fake layer of haze caused by forest and pea fires has been hanging over a man he sees in moscow the death rate is double the average for this time of year and hundreds of blazes are still burning nationwide with other countries stepping in to help battle of the fires are just countrymen as are reports from the mosque

a region where one at one of the so-called country of villages just outside moscow where people have their summer homes evidently used to be a really nice area there was a forest and people had their homes looking out into that forest it used to be obviously quite a nice place to be right now it looks like an inferno there is no more forest is just charred land and felled trees and here this is actually this used to be someone's home what's left of it is pretty unrecognizable because it's been charred to a cinder this is somebody's bathtub this is probably where the bathroom used to be all of this house as you can see most of it is just charred remains and from where the firefighters were fighting the blaze and so everything is just strewn around this is part of a car there is a completely burned out car in the garage but this is obviously a part of it.