it was very hot and it was composed of many different things some of which we don't know what we can do with the o.e.c.d. is create conditions in a very small space that are like that first nano second look at what nature was like right at the beginning of the universe it tells us more about what universe is made of and how it's put together and in many ways we can't do that without making new experiments to recreate those conditions because nature is so cold now we're thirteen billion years after the big bang so we have to do something to recreate their early early conditions to get access to see things that were right at the creation the start of our universe evolving ok in london also all right let's say what we just heard you know we can find out we can find out those things through these experiments so what yeah so what. well i mean first of all it's basic science and basic science has always been an imperative for human beings we've always wanted to understand our own environment ourselves where we come from what might happen to us so in

a sense there is it's just answering fundamental questions about our own existence and some of some scientists will argue that you don't need more for justification than that but saying that there are enormous benefits to understanding our environment our understanding nature around us you just have to go back to the early twentieth century when quantum physics was happening and i'm sure people would have wondered about the whole importance of trying to understand the underpinnings of matter that level and today what we're doing talking across continents using television and sophisticated electronics all of that is possible only because we understand matter at that level so you know the so what question may not be obvious when we are doing the experiments but it eventually does become very very useful and it is a basic human impulse ok i don't find very good guard i mean is this a good idea this collider is this a step forward are we going in the right guy. my direction is i'd like to talk

about the expense of it and what we get out of it later but how do you feel about these experiments here recreating the big bang and all this. because he did tension is wonderful as long as we six are taking into account science is something very very positive and the question the problem is only that there are some risks here which are not being addressed enough otherwise the attention is nice and even don't really say that the big bang is just an ideology but maybe that when we tried our twitter to be paying is great but not with an experiment eventually there for such experiments are important nonetheless in this case there is an internet risk which must not be taken ok ok otto can you expect can you extrapolate on that what is the risk you're saying there is risk can you give us a percentage the you know the chances of something going wrong because the collider had some problems not long ago and they fixed it so it can break i suppose so what

are the risks. it was actually running at the moment as far as i know and the risk is proportional to the number of collisions that are being made or have already been made. and the risk is absurd i mean. in nature you see there was some for somebody called bacon in the history of his of science who said that man has to fight with nature people don't know that anymore that it's it's sometimes dangerous to fight with nature and sometimes nature is fighting back in my experience here is that this is such a complicated situation it has happened that several problems have been overlooked which means that this is a trillion horse this experiment everybody is happy to have it but unfortunately it might mean the end of of the planet ok jordan that's

a pretty big statement coming from that to this is this is just scaremongering. it's clearly just scaremongering i mean what we're doing is is actually doing something that happens all the time in nature and the unique thing we're doing is we're putting a collision that happens all the time later in a situation that a lot of oratory where we're going along with it comes out our journey you want to get you to be like i do know better i do know that go ahead george if i can give a few details i mean what all those worried about is that there's there's something serious i think this is one of the you can might create make i'm going to stick. i'm going jordan one more time given it give it a shot where you can say we're making mistakes but yeah ok so what i'm trying to say to all those worried and many people have been worried by the idea that we may have noticed many black holes in the in the collision ok i mean i can argue in essence one of the predictions is that. is that this could happen and the argument i'm making is simply that in fact what we're doing the collisions we're making in

the laboratory happen all the time in nature it's not something that we wouldn't see happening around us if if these kind of collisions made many black holes that were able to eat planets it would have happened nature is doing this all right i mean i'd like to go to you how do you know. i don't like to go to anyone london here i mean how safe is this because in researching this program i came across contrarian voices there was a petition before the machine was turned on to have it not turned on to take that seriously or not i'm not a scientist but there are people concerned out there is this an exaggerated concern . i think it's an exaggerated concern i mean there was just to give you an example in two thousand there was a collator starting up in the united states called rick c. and similar concerns wondred were raised about the rig being able to produce something called a strange little particle that will eventually devour the earth and nothing like that has happened at all there is agree with jordan completely this is

a lot of scaremongering and you know it's interesting that it's just the same people talking about this there or. you can go to the cern web site and for instance look up all the papers that have been written on this and have been peer reviewed by scientists so you know one thing i would like to point out that these are you know thousands of scientists are working on this project and we know the thousands of scientists are working on this project a lot of you know their careers are taken they don't want to be devoured by a black hole i mean that would be silly so you know there might be noble prices in there waiting for some people and to think that all of that will go to waste because you know of a black hole they're not foolish enough to do that themselves so you have to keep that in mind not foolish you know ok oh no go ahead go ahead oh no go ahead you know so they are avoiding to discuss to discuss this group strangely and disagree with anything. this is

a completely tremendous amount of discussion. no no not with me i mean let me just say that i mean i think there are certain scientists have taken very seriously the objections and i've actually gone through and calculated no they have not because i just saw you know some things that are against the science they have done you know it's i'm sorry you're going i wish i went in which they really wouldn't publish as a full document. when i think you something really it's not ok and i don't want our theories tell us one for you ok otto i mean but what we have to other gases saying that if the risks have been checked very carefully i went to the website i looked at all of the objections and they gave answers to i mean why are you not satisfied with that they have not looked at the picture and they have selectively answered only those questions which seem to safe to that but we fusing to discuss the dangers that have not been disproved and is not science ok can you

give us one example of your what should you give it more now could you give us one example yes. yes. what already has been said by gordon a few minutes ago when we did the same thing was happening all the time and therefore this must be say this is in the in one sense it is correct in another sense it is a lie so it was used that word because there's a difference between two trains hitting both in the same direct both with the same speed so we don't know how it i'm looking on this screen this is not the same thing as if you do the same thing in such a way that the two things that the whole thing is moving at a high speed this is called. momentum conservation and if if one particle is at rest and the other is hitting there a fast as it happens all the time then the producta the little black hole that might be generated would be itself very very fast and therefore it would go right

through the earth oh. ok all right all right gentlemen now there is after a short break we will continue our discussion on the large hadron collider stay with archie. and expect to see. in the future to. observe nature and discover its beauty. the. leaf a communicate with the wild and let's. test yourself and become free to. see what nature can give you on

the t.v. . show would be so much brighter if you knew about sloan from feinstein freshens. he's from stunts on t.v. don't come.

if you. want

to. welcome back to cross talk time peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about whether the large hadron collider poses a threat to humanity or is a unique tool of discovery. but before let's see what russians think about this the large hadron collider or l. of c. is a twenty seven kilometer long particle accelerator on the swiss franc border first experiments were held there in two thousand and eight and physicists hold the elysee will help answer some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of our universe color and some have called for a halt to the collider fearing the poet and leashes could swallow their public opinion foundation poll found thirty six percent of russians think l.h. c. is dangerous call humankind and the other thirty one percent disagree believing

that collider poses no threat by the same token russians listed the l h c a launch as one of the top three most important events of two thousand and nine back to you . ok and you know i'd like to go back to you in london you know the critics of the of this these types of experiments say that you could actually really change the world that we're maybe maybe not creating a black hole that will swallow the world up in the rest of the universe but i mean we really you guys are really on the edge here is is what are the chances that something could go wrong that you would you would find out something that you never expected and you know in my limited knowledge of this studying for the program you guys are really out there on the edge. you mean what could happen in terms of the end it seemed functioning and something happening that changes what i was saying this guy all the guys on a large has everything been thought about that you could discover or uncover or

trigger. well peter i'm a journalist so i talk to the scientists to find out what they have been thinking about these things and as far as i can be i get that sure go ahead jordan. go ahead i mean i think one of the reasons we do science is to is to find out what's out there and in fact we have some ideas of what might be there but we don't know all the answers and by studying we find new things and you know some time later we actually understand what it all means when we discovered how the atom was put together we didn't know we'd be able to harness the energy from it when we discovered how electrons and quantum mechanics and you're brought up earlier these are things fundamental discoveries that you don't know you're going to find and that's why we go looking for things now when it comes to triggering things i just repeat what i said before we're not triggering things we're exploring we're looking in new corners and finding out new things we're giving humanity more information about the world we live in and eventually that may lead to us being able to do

things we didn't think possible today but it's one of the things about voyages of discovery you don't know where you're going to go until you actually go there what do you think about that i do that is clearly go ahead i know this is correct as far as science is like this and it's a wonderful interview and want to just use the standards of safety so if if there is someone who says there is a lowly. piece of luggage on an airplane airport this is sufficient to launch an investigation with this could not be a bone and if someone has who i did such evidence this evidence must not be suppressed from the public and the world because if you do that you use violence against the world and this is what sin is doing at the moment as long as these concerns have not been disproved it's not just opinions it's proofs that has been given of danger ok i know there's a proof of danger i don't know you make it sound like this is talking too much you know no you're not there you can never talk too much on this program but you're

making it sound like certain is a conspiracy is that what you're saying yes that's correct yes there's not just conspiracy they are hiding out there through thousands of letters this is a happy time i think we have to jump in here because this this is just since you guys have details. we're going to jump in anytime you want go and we'll go right ahead where you have been to me and i mean this sounds like this this has been in our has been saying this over and over again i've heard him speak about this many a time and you would think that scientists elsewhere are fools not to pay attention to such claims i mean you know they have looked into all these concerns and then the committees oh look there's no attorney pronounced no i disagree completely and jordan will also speak to it ok jordan can you jump in there please go ahead as a conspiracy is just jordan go ahead please i mean the idea that concern is a conspiracy is. is absolutely madness i mean as a completely. one of those who do get leads to our scientists all throughout the world share information. like this or how the information these are you know your

scientists can you give us want to there's no way. whatsoever can you can you give us one example where cern is lying to the scientific community and the rest of us one example yes yes. it is this example that we already heard from jordan they did was the same thing so it's doing it was nature is doing but there's a difference which they don't talk about. and this difference. if you go to the web site of the liberation of stray shame to pay to address exactly that point absolutely it's clearly today and exactly this objection. all right it is not true so i mean i don't buy this was really serious business to really seriously obviously it's something that we wouldn't want to do and have any risk it all has to. do i have a minute to explain just a little bit ok very quickly i don't because i want to hear from our other guest to

please go ahead. yes. now. it's not so easy you see. the proofs of. peter just to it's just a short in this little bit i mean the concern that author has and he's been voicing this over and over again and there is you can go to the cern website and they address head directly so i don't think we should waste too much time on something of this new law and i have been to do what i did i visited the website before we did the program and as i agree with jordan i looked at all of the objections and i looked at all of the answers and i'm asking otto here if why are you not satisfied with that because i come across in the blogs fear that we could be you know geneva could disappear in a nanosecond ok and no one's explained to me why that could possibly happen but i do see them a lot of spirit and we have two scientists on the program or a journalist who writes on science and scientists that are saying that there is

really no risk involved at all. how used. them is there is no peer review right the blogosphere is an open place where anyone can say whatever they want what i mostly made it almost certain pre-science has going for it is that scientists have have a chance to actually give the arguments and refute them in a way that you can publicly defend where in the blogs where you can say what you want are a gentle and i'd like to kind of change the topic a little bit because i don't think we're really making much progress here neal what it is like to see what the scientists telling you about it. because it could be used for the military to be used for star trek you know these kind of things i mean what is the application of positive obligation and we'll if i go to you in line go ahead so peter you have to award the first thing we have to understand is that this is basic science right now like jordan said we are exploring nature and in order to understand what might happen in terms of applications you have to go back to look

at experiments that were done earlier similar experiments which at that time were basic science and the offshoot of those experiments is all around us and you can go you can go into any cancer therapy laboratory or hospital today and you will see you will see the x. or machines you know proton beams neutron beams all of it being used for cancer therapy so why use them there's a lot of why you know ok. no no no it's not one person's claim it is well known. if this beautiful example you're the only person who goes out and speaks about this. no no no no no i have given proofs and soon is refusing to prove disprove this proves and more although it certainly is hiding facts when the public so on is hiding the fact that there is an experiment absolutely certain that so it's not completely or know what i'm going

to say the least contradicts me before i had really shot answers your you've made a statement. concerning this information i assume is hearing what you're saying why you don't want to hear what i say that's nice to of you to admit thank you i don't know you are like a motto you have just floors me clear make it very clear but are all you have to say if you are your state can you make it very angry very lady very brief go ahead . yes it certainly is claiming that little black holes generated by nature which must exist if soon we will produce them very fast which is correct therefore they should get stuck in neutral stars and have already destroyed new twenty stars if these mini black holes hope for it soon were dangerous this argument is very good except for one thing neutron stars are super fluids inside therefore this no they are not being stopped inside their foot neutron so stars happen to be saved by

quantum mechanics and i'm saying that i'm not alone famous nobel prize winner is behind me but this can be tested by an experiment possible at cern cern knows this since july two thousand and eight but soon is claiming before the world that this was known that this is not dangerous and they are hiding the fact this is can be tested ok i'm not make a test to assure the planet before you act ok jordan how can you respond to that i'm not a scientist most of my viewers aren't i mean i think again again you have to read the papers carefully and although makes an objection that it. if you interpret some results in the way he said it was an easy way to join the fray these ensured you finish so you're going to go ready since that is what i oppose that's so so the way the argument certain is answered is that ok is that. if there's

a moving black hole which is what all those worried about these will also be captured by neutron stars so there it's the mass surrounding and the slow movement of the neutron star which would have again eaten all this material up so again this is the scientific refutation we can go through and so why the moving argument doesn't work all right gentlemen we've run out of time here and i want to say i've run out i want to thank our guests in london and in stuttgart and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember cross talk rules.

in the czech republic he's available in a hotel and science central. will stop.

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to be somebody's car and this was once a very nice course rochelle rage on the charred ruins. there's no end in sight to be uphill battle against the wall. as they destroy lives and homes. and the number of deaths has doubled in moscow well many people are trying to leave the city which is still covered by a giant quelled a small. plus the. sixty five years since the u.s. dropped the ball and. those who. know the place has the same fights as the. from a studios here in central moscow this is the widespread forest and peat bogs follows

a still raging in russia leaving many cities suffocating under a thick blanket of smog forecasters say the president and heat wave that's fueling the blazes is unlikely to ease this week the followers of playing fifty lives and left spells homeless more than one hundred fifty thousand people are battling the flames including the russian military extra vehicles and equipment have been sent from of the countries. in the region where villages were destroyed by fire. where one at one of the so-called country of villages just outside moscow where people have their summer homes evidently used to be a really nice area there was a forest and people had their homes looking out into that forest it used to be obviously quite a nice place to be right now it looks like an inferno there is no more forest is just charred land and felled trees and here this is actually this used to be someone's home what's left of it is pretty on recognizable because it's been

charred to a cinder this is somebody's bath this is probably where the bathroom used to be all of this house as you can see most of it is just charred remains and from where the firefighters were fighting the blaze and so everything is just strewn around this is part of a car there is a completely burned out car in the garage but this is obviously a part of it we don't quite know how it got there and why just a little bit over there that was probably the bedroom because we can see the charred remains of bed lying down there and this was evidently the kitchen there is the remains of us and some other kitchen paraphernalia like kitchen utensils and various other things so this was somebody's home people live there people accumulated their possessions and they lost all of it in a matter of hours one of the local residents here didn't want to go on camera but he showed us mobile phone footage of when the fire started and it was literally just a wall.