and what it what does it mean and how can it change our life. well the first few nanoseconds after the big bang the whole universe was in a very tiny place it was very hot and it was composed of many different things some of which we don't know what we can do with the sea is create conditions in a very small space that are like that first nano second and look at what nature was like right at the beginning of the universe that tells us more about what the universe is made of and how it's put together and in many ways we can't do that without making these experiments to recreate those conditions because nature is so cold now a thirteen billion years after the big bang so we have to do something to recreate that early early conditions to get access to see things that were there right at the creation the start of our universe evolving ok in line and also all right let's say what we just heard you know we can find out we can find out those things through these experiments so what yeah so what. well i mean first of all it's basic science and basic science has always been an imperative for human beings we

always wonder to understand our own environment ourselves where we come from what might happen to us so in a sense there is it's just answering fundamental questions about our own existence and some of some scientists will argue that you don't need more of a justification than that but saying that there are enormous benefits to understanding our environment our understanding nature around us you just have to go back to the early twentieth century when quantum physics was happening and i'm sure people would have wondered about the whole importance of trying to understand the underpinnings of matter that level and today what we're doing talking across continents using television and sophisticated electronics all of that is possible only because we understand matter at that level so you know the sort question may not be obvious when we are doing the experiments but it eventually does become very very useful and it is

a basic human impulse ok i don't i'm going to guard i mean is this a good idea this collider this is a step forward we're going in the right right direction as i like to talk about the expense of it and what we get out of it later but how do you feel about these experiments here we recreating the big bang and all this. you know because he did tension is wonderful as long as we six are taking into account science is something very very positive and the question the problem is only that there are some risks here which are not being addressed enough otherwise the attention is nice and i even don't really say that the big bang is just an ideology but maybe the man would find out whether the beeping is kuwait or not with an experiment eventually there for such experiments are important nonetheless in this case there is an infinite risk which must not be taken ok ok otto can you expect can you extrapolate on that what is the risk you're saying there is risk can you give us

a percentage the you know the chances of something going wrong because the collider had some problems not long ago and they fixed it so it can break i suppose so what are the risks. you know the could i was actually running at the moment as far as i know and the risk is proportional to the number of collisions that are being made or have already been made. and the risk is absurd i mean. in nature you see there was some for somebody called bacon in the history of his science who said that man has to fight with nature people don't know that anymore that it's it's sometimes dangerous to fight with nature and sometimes nature is fighting back in my experience here is that this is such a complicated situation it has happened that several problems have been overlooked which means that this is a true in horse this experiment everybody is happy to have it but unfortunately it

might mean the end of of the planet ok jordan that's a pretty big statement coming from that's what this is this is just scaremongering go ahead it's clearly just scaremongering i mean what we're doing is is actually doing something that happens all the time in nature and the unique thing we're doing is we're putting a collision that happens all the time later in a situation a little oratory where we're going along and when it comes out our journey you want to continue to be like i do know better i do know that go ahead george if i can give a few details i mean what all those worried about is that there's there's something serious i think this is one of the really might create make i'm going to stick. i'm going jordan one more time given it give it a shot where you can say we're making mistakes but yet ok so what i'm trying to say yes to all those worried and many people have been worried by the idea that we may know the reasons many black holes in the in the collision ok i mean i can argue in

essence one of the predictions is that. is that this could happen and the argument i'm making is simply that in fact what we're doing the collisions we're making in the board very happen all the time in nature it's not something that we would see happening around us if if these kind of collisions made many black holes that were able to eat planets it would have happened nature is doing this concert or i mean i'd like to go to you how do you know. i don't like to go to anyone london here i mean how safe is this because in researching this program i came across contrarian voices there was a petition before the machine was turned on to have it not turned on i take it seriously or not i'm not a scientist but there are people concerned out there is this an exaggerated concern . i think it's an exaggerated concern i mean there was just to give you an example in two thousand there was a collator starting up in the united states called rick c. and similar concerns two hundred were raised about the rig being able to produce

something called a strange little particle that will eventually devour the earth and nothing like that has happened at all there is agree with jordan completely this is a lot of scaremongering and you know it's interesting that it's just the same people talking about this there are you can you you can go to the cern web site and for instance look up all the papers that have been written on this and have been peer reviewed by scientists so you know one thing i would like to point out that these are you know thousands of scientists are working on this project and we know the thousands of scientists are working on this project a lot of you know their careers are taken they don't want to be devoured by a black hole i mean that would be silly so you know there might be noble prices in there waiting for some people and to think that all of that will go to waste because you know if a black hole they're not foolish enough to do that themselves so you have to keep that in mind not foolish you know well ok oh no go ahead go ahead oh no go ahead

you know so they are avoiding to discuss to discuss this group strangely and that's when i disagree i think. this is a completely tremendous amount of discussion. no no not with me i mean let me just say that i mean i think there are certain scientists have taken very seriously the objections and actually gone through and calculated no they have not. that are against the science they have done you know it's. going to be material you don't publish as a full document. ok and i think. it's only. theories tell us one for you ok otto i mean what we have two other gases saying that the risks have been checked very carefully i went to the website i looked at all of the objections and they gave answers to what i mean why are you not satisfied with that they have not looked. selectively answered only those questions which seemed safe

to do but we fusing to discuss the dangers that have not been disproved it is not science ok can you give us one example should you give it not how could you give us one example yes. yes. what already has been said by gordon a few minutes ago when we did the same thing was was happening all the time and therefore that this must be said this is in the in one sense it is correct in another sense it is a lie so we to say used that word because there's a difference between two trains hitting both in the same direct both with the same speed so we don't know how it i'm looking on this screen but this is not the same thing as if you do the same thing in such a way that the two things that the whole thing is moving at a high speed this is called. momentum conservation and if if

one particle is at rest and the other is hitting very fast as it happens all the time then the producta the little black hole that might be generated would be itself very very fast and therefore it would go right through the earth ok all right all right gentlemen if there is after a short break we will continue our discussion on the large hadron collider stay with r.t. . if you. think you can. discover it. communicate with the want to. test yourself and become free.

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welcome back cross talk time peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about whether the large hadron collider poses a threat to humanity poor is a unique tool of discovery. but before let's see what russians think about this the large hadron collider or see is at one of the seven kilometer long particle accelerator on the swiss franc border crossing spearman's were held there in two thousand and eight and physicists hold the elysee will help answer some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of our universe color and some cold called to let collider fearing the poet unleashes could swallow their public opinion foundation poll fall thirty six

percent of russians think l.h. c. is dangerous call humankind and the other thirty one percent disagree believing that collider poses no threat by the same token russians listed the l h c a launch as one of the top three most important events of two thousand and nine back to you . ok and you know i'd like to go back to you in london you know the critics of the of this these types of experiments say that you could actually really change the world that we're maybe maybe not creating a black hole that will swallow the world up in the rest of the universe but i mean we really you guys are really on the edge here is a is what are the chances that something could go wrong that you would you would find out something that you never expected and you know in my limited knowledge of this studying for the program you guys are really out there on the edge. you mean what could happen in terms of the end it seemed functioning and something happening

that changes what i was saying this guy all the guys on a large has everything been thought about that you could discover or uncover or trigger well peter i'm a journalist so i talk to the scientists. they have been thinking about these things and as far as i can be i get that sure go ahead jordan. go ahead i mean i think one of the reasons we do scientists is to find out what's out there and in fact we have some ideas of what might be there but we don't know all the answers and by studying we find new things and you know some time later we actually understand what it all means when we discovered how the atom was put together we didn't know we'd be able to harness the energy from it when we discovered how electrons and quantum mechanics and you're brought up earlier these are things fundamental discoveries that you don't know you're going to find and that's why we go looking for things now when it comes to triggering things i just repeat what i said before we're not triggering things we're exploring we're looking into corners and finding out new things we're giving humanity more information

about the world we live in and eventually that may lead to us being able to do things we didn't think possible today but it's one of the things about voyages of discovery you don't know where you're going to go until you actually go there what do you think about that how did you get it is calling you go ahead i know this is correct as far as yes science is like this and it's a wonderful interval and want to just use the standards of safety so if if there is someone who says there is a lowly. piece of luggage on an airplane airport this is sufficient to launch an investigation with this could not be a bone and if someone has provided such evidence there's evidence must not be suppressed from the public and the world because if you do that you use violence against the world and this is what sin is doing at the moment as long as these concerns have not been disproved it's not just opinions it's proof that has been given of danger ok i know there's

a proof of danger i don't know you make it sound like this is talking too much no no no you're not there you can never talk too much on this program but you're making it sound like certain is a conspiracy is is that what you're saying yes that's correct yes there's not just conspiracy they are hiding but it's through thousands of letters this is a picture i think we have to jump in here because this this is just since you guys have been present. going to jump in anytime you want go go right ahead we have to do something and i mean this sounds like this this has been in our has been saying this over and over again i've heard him speak about this many a time and you would think that scientists are fools not to pay attention to such claims i mean you know they have looked into all these concerns and then the committees oh look there's no it's pronounced no i disagree joining will also speak to it ok jordan can you jump in there please go ahead as a conspiracy is just george go ahead please i mean the idea of the concern is that conspiracy is. absolutely madness i mean it is

a completely. one of the. scientists all throughout the world share information. how the information these are things you know your scientists can you give us why there is no hidden whatsoever can you can you give us one example where cern is lying to the scientific community and the rest of us one example yes yes. it is this example that we already heard from jordan that it was the same thing so it's doing it was nature is doing but there's a difference which we don't talk about. and this difference. i mean if you go to the website of the liberation of stray shame to pay to address exactly that point absolutely it's clearly. and exactly this objection. all right it is not true so i mean i don't buy this was really just a really seriously obviously it's something that we wouldn't want to do and have any risk it all has the. we want to have a minute to explain just

a little bit ok very quickly i don't because i want to hear from our other guest to please go ahead. yes. now. it's not so easy you see. there are proofs of. future just to it's just a short in this little bit i mean the concern that arthur has and he's been voicing this over and over again and there is you can go to the certain web site and they address said directly so i don't think we should waste too much time on something of this new law and i have been doing what i do i visited the website before we did the program and as i agree with jordan i looked at all of the objections and i looked at all of the answers and i'm asking otto here if why are you not satisfied with that because i come across in the blog sphere that we could be you know geneva could disappear in a nanosecond ok and no one's explained to me why that could possibly happen but i

do see them a lot of fear and we have two scientists on the program or a journalist who writes on science and scientists that are saying that there is really no risk involved at all. how you dress. so that block. them is there is no peer review right the blogosphere is an open place where anyone can say whatever they want what i mostly made it almost certainly science has going for it is that scientists have have a chance to actually give the arguments and refute them in a way that you can publicly defend where in the blogs where you can say what you want are a general and i'd like to kind of change the topic a little bit because i don't think we're really making much progress here neal what it is why do you care what it is scientific telling you about its application because it could be used for the military to be used for star trek you know these kind of things i mean what is the application of positive a meal if i go to you in line go ahead so peter or you have to award the first thing we have to understand is that this is basic science right now like jordan

said we are exploring nature and in order to understand what might happen in terms of applications you have to go back to look at experiments that were done earlier similar experiments which at that time were basic science and the offshoot of those experiments is all around us and you can go you can go into any cancer therapy laboratory or hospital today and you will see you will see the x. ray machines you know proton beams neutron beams all of it being used for cancer therapy so. there's a lot of why you know ok. no no no it's not one person's claim it is well known of. this beautiful example although you're the only person who goes out and speaks about this. no no no no no i have given proofs and soon is refusing to prove disprove disproved and more although it certainly is hiding facts from the public so one is hiding the fact

that there is an experiment as i said absolutely not. that so it's not completely or know what i'm going to say the least contradicts me before i had really shot answers you know you've made a statement. concerning this information i assume is hearing what you're saying i can see you don't want to hear what i say that's nice to of you to admit thank you i don't know you are like a motto you have just floors me or you make it very clear but are all you have is if you are your state can you make it very angry there may be very brief go ahead. yes it certainly is claiming that little black holes generated by nature which must exist if soon we will produce them very fast which is correct therefore they should get stuck in neutral stars and have already destroyed new twenty stars if these mini black holes hope for it soon were dangerous this argument is very good except for one thing neutron stars are super fluids inside therefore this know they are

not being stopped inside their foot neutron so stars happen to be saved by quantum mechanics and i'm saying that i'm not alone famous nobel prize winner is behind me but this can be tested by an experiment possible at cern cern knows this since july two thousand and eight but soon is claiming before the world that this was known that this is not dangerous and they are hiding the fact this this can be tested ok why not make a test to assure the planet before you act ok jordan how can you respond to that i'm not a scientist most of my viewers aren't i mean i think again again you have to read the papers carefully and although makes an objection that. if you interpret so miserable in the way. you let your reason to order you finish so you're going to go ready to accept these words i oppose so so that the way the argument certain is

answered is that ok is that. if there's a moving black hole which is what all those worried about these will also be captured by neutron stars so there it's the mass surrounding and the slow movement of the neutron star which would have again eaten all this material up so again this is the this scientific refutation didn't go forward so why didn't the moving argument doesn't work all right gentlemen we've run out of time here in and i want to say i've run out i want to thank our guests in london and in stuttgart and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules.

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a very nice meal but the forest fires in central rochelle rage on leaving only charred ruins in their path. there is still no went inside to the uphill battle against the wildfires ravaging russia as they destroy homes and lives. and the number of deaths has doubled in moscow while many people are trying to leave the capital which is still covered by giant top six small. plus survivors plea sixty five years since the u.s. dropped an atomic bomb on nagasaki those who escaped with their lives call on the world to ensure no other place suffers the same fate as their city. and india's so-called untouchables are reigniting a debate over discrimination where those of a higher caste refused to give up age old traditions despite government.

two am here in moscow thanks for being with us here on r t our top story widespread forest and peat bog fires are still raging in russia leaving many cities suffocating under a thick blanket of smog forecasters say the unprecedented he wave that's fueling the blazes is unlikely to ease this week the fires have claimed fifty lives and left thousands homeless more than one hundred fifty thousand people are battling the flames including the russian military and volunteers extra vehicles and equipment have been sent from other countries the smoke from the wildfires is making it difficult to breathe in many cities including russia's capital where you are he's your piskun of joins us with us report. the of visuals any more i mentally say that the situation in general is bad twenty four seven although it does get may

get a little bit better during daytime it is much much worse during the night and specially in the morning hours it's hard to be the and it's hard to be without gas mask i do have. my own right here but i can tell you even when wearing one the eyes start watering and authorities strongly recommend to everybody to stay inside to shut the windows to drink as much water as possible and to always wear masks but there are now reports from doctors that the number of deaths in moscow has doubled and they blame the pollution for this also organized these so-called small centers across the city where water and masks are being distributed however the already heard complaints that some of the centers are not equipped with air conditioning and there are also reports that some pharmacies in the city are sold out of medical mass well i can tell you that these medical masks are really of no use what you need is a mask.