what we can do with the sea is create conditions in a very small space that are like that first nano second and look at what nature was like right at the beginning of the universe that tells us more about what the universe is made of and how it's put together and in many ways we can't do that without making these experiments to recreate those conditions because mater is so cold now a thirteen billion years after the big bang so we have to do something to recreate that early early conditions to get access to see things that were there right at the creation the start of our universe evolving ok in line and also all right let's say what we just heard you know we can find out we can find out those things through these experiments so what yeah so what. well i mean first of all it's basic science and basic science has always been an imperative for human beings we always wanted to understand our own environment ourselves where we come from what might happen to us so in a sense there is it's just answering fundamental questions about our own existence

and some of some scientists will argue that you don't need more of a justification than that but saying that there are enormous benefits to understanding our environment our understanding nature around us you just have to go back to the early twentieth century when quantum physics was happening and i'm sure people would have wondered about the whole importance of trying to understand the underpinnings of matter that level and today what we're doing talking across continents using television and sophisticated electronics all of that is possible only because we understand matter at that level so you know the sort question may not be obvious when we are doing the experiments but eventually it does become very very useful and it is a basic human impulse ok i don't i'm going to you and good guard i mean is this a good idea this collider is this is a step forward are we going in the right right direction as i like to talk about the expense of it and what we get out of it later but how do you feel about these

experiments here we recreating the big bang and all this. because he didn't mention this wonderful islam is risks taking into account is something very good points it and. the problem is only to assume risk see which are not being missed in the other words the attention is nice even don't really see the big bang it's just the other g. but maybe we would find out where the being is correct but not with an experiment eventually so the experiments are important nonetheless in this case there is an internet risk which must not be taken ok. ok joe can you explain can you extract played on that what is the risk you're saying there is risk can you give us a percentage the you know the chances of something going wrong because the collider had some problems not long ago and they fixed it so it can break i suppose so what are the risks. if i could i was actually running at the moment as far as i know and

the risk is proportional to the number of collisions that are being made or have already been made. and the risk is absurd i mean. in nature you see there was some from somebody called bacon in the history of his science who said that man has to fight with nature people don't know that anymore that it's sometimes dangerous to fight with nature and sometimes nature is fighting back in my experience here is that this is such a complicated situation it has happened that several problems have been overlooked which means that this is a trillion horse this experiment everybody is happy to have it but unfortunately it might mean the end of of the planet ok jordan that's a pretty big statement coming from that's what this is this is just scaremongering

go ahead it's clearly just scaremongering i mean what we're doing is is actually doing something that happens all the time in nature and the unique thing we're doing is we're putting a collision it happens all the families are in a situation in a lot of oratory where we're going along with it comes out our journey you want to continue to be like i do know better i do know that go ahead george if i can give a few details i mean what all those worried about is that there's there's something serious i think this is one of the really might create make i'm going to stick. i'm going jordan one more time given it give it a shot where you can say we're making mistakes but yet ok so what i'm trying to say to all those worried and many people have been worried by the idea that we may have noticed many black holes in the in the collision ok i mean i can argue in essence one of the predictions is that. is that this could happen and the argument i'm making is simply that in fact what we're doing the collisions we're making in the laboratory happen all the time in nature it's not something that we would see

happening around us if if these kind of collisions made many black holes that were able to eat planets it would have happened nature is doing this concert or i mean i'd like to go to you how did you know. i don't like to go to anyone london here i mean how safe is this because in researching this program i came across country voices there was a petition before the machine was turned on to have it not turned on i do take that seriously or not i'm not a scientist but there are people concerned out there is this an exaggerated concern . i think it's an exaggerated concern i mean there was just to give you an example in two thousand there was a collider starting up in the united states called rick c. and similar concerns two hundred were raised about the rig being able to produce something called a strange little particle that will eventually devour the earth and nothing like that has happened at all there is agree with jordan completely this is a lot of scaremongering and you know it's interesting that it's just the same

people talking about this there are you can you you can go to the cern web site and for instance look up all the papers that have been written on this and have been peer reviewed by scientists so you know one thing i would like to point out that these are you know thousands of scientists are working on this project and we know the thousands of scientists are working on this project a lot of you know their careers are taken they don't want to be devoured by a black hole i mean that would be silly so you know there might be noble prices in there waiting for some people and to think that all of that will go to waste because you know if a black hole they're not foolish enough to do that themselves so you have to keep that in mind not foolish you know well kayo no go ahead go ahead oh no go ahead you know so. voiding to discussing to discuss this problem strangely and that's why i disagree i think. this is a completely tremendous amount of discussion. no no not with me i mean let me just

say that i mean i think there are certain scientists have taken very seriously the objections and actually gone through and calculated no they have not. that are against the science they have done now it's. published as a full document. ok. it's not ok theories tell us one for you ok otto i mean but we have two other gases saying that the risks have been checked very carefully i went to the website i looked at all of the objections and they gave answers to i mean why are you not satisfied with that they have not looked. selectively answered only those questions which seemed safe to do but we fusing to discuss the dangers that have not been disproved and is not science ok can you give us one example you give you could you give us one example yes. yes. what already has been said but

by gordon a few minutes ago then we did the same thing was was happening all the time and therefore this must be say this is in that in one sense it is correct in another sense it is a lie so are we to say it used that word because there's a difference between two trains hitting both in the same direct both with the same speed so we don't know how it i'm looking on this screen this is not the same thing as if you do the same thing in such a way that the two things that the whole thing is moving at a high speed this is called. momentum conservation and if if one particle is at rest and the other is hitting there a fast as it happens all the time then the producta the little black hole that might be generated would be itself very very fast and therefore it would go right through the earth ok all right all right gentlemen out there after

a short break we will continue our discussion on the large hadron collider stay with r.t. . if you. think you can. observe nature discovery. communicate with. and become free.

see what nature can give you. first. heard the remains.

he's available in hotels a story of. interest. hotel gold new gold and never tell center elvis you still ski lift you can see in this column if you visit.

anything. you want to. welcome back to cross talk time peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about whether the large hadron collider poses a threat to humanity or is a unique tool of discovering. anything. but before let's see what russians think about this the large hadron collider o l h c is a twenty seven kilometer long particle accelerator on the swiss franc border first experiments were held there in two thousand and eight and physicists hold the elysee will help answer some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of our universe color and some cold called to the collider fearing the poet unleashes

could swallow their public opinion foundation poll found thirty six percent of russians think l.h. c. is dangerous all humankind and the other thirty one percent disagree believing the kaleido poses no threat by the same token russians listed the l h c launch as one of the top three most important events of two thousand and nine back to you. ok and you know i'd like to go back to you in london you know the critics of the of this these types of experiments say that you could actually really change the world that we're maybe maybe not creating a black hole that will swallow the world up in the rest of the universe but i mean we really you guys are really on the edge here is a is what are the chances that something could go wrong that you would you would find out something that you never expected and you know in my limited knowledge of this studying for the program you guys are really out there on the edge. you mean what could happen in terms of the end it seemed functioning and something happening

that changes what i was saying isn't the real guy or you guys on a large has everything been thought about that you could discover or uncover or trigger well peter i'm a journalist so i talk to the scientists to find out they have been thinking about these things and as far as i can be you get that sure go ahead jordan. go ahead i mean i think one of the reasons we do scientists is to find out what's out there and in fact we have some ideas of what might be there but we don't know all the answers and by studying we find new things and you know some time later we actually understand what it all means when we discovered how the atom was put together we didn't know we'd be able to harness the energy from it when we discovered how electrons and quantum mechanics and you're brought up earlier these are things fundamental discoveries that you don't know you're going to find and that's why we go looking for things now when it comes to triggering things i just repeat what i said before we're not triggering things we're exploring we're looking

at new corners and finding out new things we're giving humanity more information about the world we live in and eventually that may lead to us being able to do things we didn't think possible today but it's one of the things about voyages of discovery you don't know where you're going to go until you actually go there what do you think about that how do you that if this could go ahead i know this is correct as far as this science is like this and it's a wonderful interview and i want to just use the standards of safety so if if there is someone who says there is a lonely. piece of luggage on an airplane airport this is sufficient to launch an investigation with this could not be a bone and if someone has provided such evidence there's evidence must not be suppressed from the public and the world because if you do that you use violence against the world and this is what sin is doing at the moment as long as these concerns have not been disproved it's not just opinions it's proof that has been

given of danger ok i know there's a proof of danger i don't know you make it sound like this is talking too much no no no you're not there you can never talk too much on this program but you're making it sound like certain is a conspiracy is that what you're saying yes that's correct yes there's not just conspiracy they are hiding but it's who's one of the players this is peter i think we have to jump in here because this this is just since you guys have been present . you get to jump in anytime you want go and we'll go right ahead we have jimmy and i mean this sounds this this has been in our has been saying this over and over again i've heard him speak about this many a time and you would think that scientists elsewhere are fools not to pay attention to such claims i mean you know they have looked into all these concerns and then the committees are like there's no return pronounced and no i disagree completely and then jordan will also speak to it ok jordan can you jump in there please go ahead as a conspiracy is just jordan go ahead jump yeah please i mean the idea that concern

is a conspiracy is. is absolutely madness i mean so it is a completely. one of those who do get least who are scientists all throughout the world share information. so i was to look at this or how the information these are to say how long are scientists can you give us why there is no examination being hidden whatsoever can you can you give us one example where cern is lying to the scientific community in the rest of us one example yes yes. it is this example that we already heard about from jordan that it was the same thing with doing it was nature is doing but there's a difference which we don't talk about and this difference. i mean if you go to the website of the liberation astray shane do they do address exactly that point absolutely it's clearly look just as i read it and exactly this objection. all right it is not true so i mean i don't buy this was really just a really seriously obviously it's something that we wouldn't want to do and have

any risk it all has the. we want them to have a minute to explain just a little bit ok very quickly i don't because i want to hear from our other guest to please go ahead. yes. now. it's not so easy you see. there are proofs of. peter just. just to shorten this a little bit i mean the concern that he's been voicing this over and over again and there is you can go to the cern web site and they address it directly so i don't think we should waste too much time and. i have been to the idea i visited the website before we did the program and as i agree with jordan i looked at all of the objections and i looked at all of the answers and i'm asking otto here if why are you not satisfied with that because i come across in the blogs fear that we could be you know geneva could disappear in a nanosecond ok and no one's explained to me why that could possibly happen but i

do see limbaugh this fear and we have two scientists on the program or a journalist who writes on science and scientists that are saying that there is really no risk involved at all. how you. problem is there is no peer review right the blogosphere is an open place where anyone can say whatever they want what i mostly made in this thirty three science has going for it is that scientists have have a chance to actually give the arguments and refute them in a way that you can publicly defend where in the blogs where you can say what you want or agenda and i'd like to kind of change the topic a little bit because i don't think we're really making much progress here neal what it is i do see what the scientists telling you about its location because it could be used for the military ok to be used for star trek you know these kind of things i mean what is the application of positive a meal if i go to you in line go ahead so peter or you have to award the first

thing we have to understand is that this is basic science right now like jordan said we are exploring nature and in order to understand what might happen in terms of applications you have to go back to look at experiments that were done earlier similar experiments which at that time were basic science and the offshoot of those experiments is all around us and you can go you can go into any cancer therapy laboratory or hospital today and you will see you will see the x. ray machines you know proton beams neutron beams all of it being used for cancer therapy so why use them there's a lot of why you know. ok. this is really. no no no it's not one person's claim it is well known of. this beautiful example you're the only person who goes out and speaks about this. no no no no no i have given proofs and soon is refusing to prove disprove disproved and more although it

certainly is hiding facts from the public so one is hiding the fact that there is an experiment. so it's not completely or know what i'm going to say the least contradicts me before i had really short answers you know you've made a statement. concerning this information and i certainly scaring and what you're saying why. you don't want to hear what i say that's nice to of you to admit thank you i don't you have like a motto you have just learned me or you make it very clear but oddo you have to say if you are your state can you make it very angry very lazy very brief go ahead. yes it certainly is claiming that little black holes and generated by nature which must exist if soon we will produce them very fast which is correct therefore they should get stuck in neutral stars and have already destroyed new twenty stars if these mini black holes hope for it soon were dangerous this argument is very good except

for one thing neutron stars are super fluids inside therefore this no they are not being stopped inside their foot neutron so stars happen to be saved by quantum mechanics and i'm saying that i'm not alone famous nobel prize winner is behind me but this can be tested by an experiment possible at cern cern knows this since july two thousand and eight but syrian is claiming before the world that this was known that this is not dangerous and they are hiding the fact this is can be tested ok i'm not make a test to assure the planet before you act ok jordan now can you respond to that i'm not a scientist most of my viewers are i mean i think again again you have to read the papers carefully and also makes an objection that. if you interpret some results high in the way he said this was an easy way to join these ensured you finish so

you're going to go ready to do so so i oppose that so the way the argument certain is answered is that ok i'll is that. if there's a moving black hole which is what all those worried about these will also be captured by neutron stars so there it's the mass that surrounding and the slow movement of the neutron star which would have again eaten all this material up so again this is the scientific refutation we can go through and so why don't the moving argument doesn't work all right gentlemen we've run out of time here and i want to say i've run out i want to thank our guests in london and in stuttgart and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our teeth see you next time and remember cross talk rules. and.

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so you see this is not a road you should look. and you should see several you should see the pretty trees street so they have no idea about the hardships that we face. this is. going to loosen the river the army the life of the use of the enemy is the most precious thing in the world. and it was the goal to understand fully that you have to live a. real life stories from would need. nineteen forty five gold.

four thirty am here in moscow thanks for being with us here on our t.v.'s your headlights hundreds of wildfires are still burning across central russia situation is stable and contained according to authorities but they warn that could change at any moment fifty two people have died around two thousand have lost their homes several countries have said equipment and specialists to help battle the flames. meanwhile the death rate in the russian capital has doubled the season compared to the monthly average that's according to moscow's department of health dr blame the concentration of harmful particles in the air in the forest and peat fires advise everyone in the area to wear a mask outside and drink plenty of water emergencies ministry plans to assisting with all the fires in the moscow region in the next few days. and japan calls for a nuclear free world on the sixtieth anniversary of the atom bomb being dropped on nagasaki representatives from more than thirty countries gathered with survivors to

remember the more than two hundred thousand who lost their lives the u.s. did not send a representative from nagasaki as it did for the ceremony earlier in hiroshima up next we travel to the caucasus to explore the beauty of the north. that's coming your way in our special report stay with us. among the snowy peaks gorges rocks of the greater caucasian mountain range the republic of north. high in the mountains where ventura. lives on untouched. habitat. and other animals is guarding closely here. from the top of the mountains the rivers rushing to hundreds of streams which turn into endless waterfalls.

this fanciful landscape attracts many rock climbers they can make their own route among the rocks canyons and mountain tops up to four thousand meters. in spring time the weather here can change several times and it. is slowly coming to life. the first flowers to welcome the warmth of spring. lurk in last year's grass. the alligator gorge river is the reserves main waterway water is only just beginning to flood its wide bed.