but i welcome back the headlines for you down here don t wildfires continue to burn in central russia moscow facing the prospect of more acrid smoke after reading also short response meanwhile the government has halted grain exports next from its supplies just enough to meet less ticked off the faas and it's destroyed many halts . ten years off the course submarine charge of the oil services all being held at naval bases throughout russia all one hundred eighteen crew were killed in the submarine sank on the promenade so the pain of those still fresh. on the courts in europe has played host to a new nazi case this time about russian and german close they tried to sue and left wing group which produce proof of. which a puppet among you know it says. the next spotlight discusses the report says they

then lives on the line in pursuit of the truth. hungry for the full story we've got it for. the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news makers on. every month we give you the future we help you understand how we'll get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world join our technology update on our g. hello again a welcome to spotlight the interview show on r.t.

. and today my guest in the studio is white twenty years ago the soviet parliament passed a law which prohibited any form of censorship and guaranteed freedom of press in russia but unfortunately no law can guarantee carefree existence to news than themselves the number of cases when journalists rights are violated isn't getting low around the world and this by no means is the reason for it and now this here is probably the worst thing quality our world media to talk about these and other issues and threats we are facing our guest today is the general secretary of the international federation of journalists. politicians in many countries don't welcome uncontrolled press making it hard for free thinking journalists do their job but the bravest do their job some fool and too many die to secure free media in the world and protect correspondents the international federation of journalists

was created today's the biggest journalist association with a membership of about six hundred thousand media professionals from over one hundred countries. it's largely due to just one man aidan white the director general of the international federation of journalists since nine hundred eighty seven so has anything changed in the last twenty odd years and what's next for the eye of j aged white is our guest on today spotlight. host of why thank you very much thank you very much for being with us on the show again just to remind viewers that we had mr wyatt here three years ago that nearly a thousand shares. i was the wife well first of all let's start with the news. and the latest scandalous news. involving journalist was this was this convoy the freedom car boy stop the by the israeli commandos well as far as

we understand around one hundred people on those birds ships or whatever. detained by israelis were journalists what about them are you dealing with this issue what about their right being of their as part of the convoy what are they doing their job properly and are you doing your job now to somehow somehow help them well first of all thanks again for bringing me back and it's a pleasure to be here look the the flotilla story was a big global news story and many media knew that it was going to be and as a result of that around one hundred journalists from i think fifteen to twenty countries were present on the ships and they were there actually to report on the story because of of this great interest in it now as a result of the of the conflict itself and the assault on the boat among the dead was one journalist and all of the journalists were detained when the

ships docked in israel many of the. equipment confiscated. some of them had the material in the film that they had taken also taken and used by israeli officials and this was quite scandalous activity now we've been working very closely with our colleagues in israel to really get to the bottom of what happened here we're supporting those journalists who are demanding that their material that was confiscated was given back and were demanding explanations from the israelis about how the journalists were treated here the fact the matter is that the journalists were doing their job they weren't there as part of a political protest but they became inevitably caught up in the conflict will follow said two words they they were not there as a pilot of a political protest but they were detained inevitably so well i mean everybody

needs what's going to happen to this for the tail when it was obvious and there do you think it was it was appropriate for a newsman to be aboard those ships as part like of the people who were political progress wasn't there it be wiser and more correct to have a special needs but no no no i'm not sure there's us right i mean look journalists when they're reporting a story need to get as close to that story as they can and of course therefore being on the ships where the action was taken place was extremely important they're on the ships they know exactly what the protesters are doing they know how they're responding and they're also able to see through i witnessing accounts of actually the astonishing as well go in our journalists don't go on the field as part of the army they go separately while actually is that sometimes they do go part as part of the army when we're a well known embed it journalism is a traditional part and always has been of journalists following armies incompetence

into conflict that has actually always been there what it truly is they are detained it is a property of course you know it's of course but it's true. that inevitably journalists and i have to understand the risks that they're taking when they join the flotilla so we're not protesting actually that the journal no to help know that the journalists will google were detained what we are protesting about is that their rymes our journalists perhaps have been violated in particular we're concerned here about the confiscation of material and the misuse of that material that seems to us to be quite outrageous and not justified at all and that's why we have set up this system of of taking case by case to the israelis asking for an explanation about what happened but this sounds like a pretty worthless position on the part of the i have well you know the thing about the misuse the israeli authorities tried very carefully to control the coverage of the whole story the three story the avatar story the vents themselves

and they succeeded to a great extent over here happy as a journalist as the digital secretary their organization by the way the coverage in general or you think it was more by as they should have been very thing i mean i think the israeli government on the israeli national institutions are some of the most skillful spinners of news and information and control of use of information anywhere in the world i think they can teach almost every public relations agency in the world a trick or two in order to get their story across and we saw this during the gaza conflict last year the fact the matter as you remember it was a scandal that the israeli authorities would not allow international journalists into gaza to report on what was going on and what they did is they corralled them outside garza and fed them and had them lots of sort of local stories which are very much suited israeli strategic interest now that sort of control i mean i am surprised by it because that the israelis should know that that sort of direct

control actually creates real resistance within journalism media don't like to be manipulated in that way but. of course the the israeli position has always been well known if they take to get the opportunity they will restrain journalistic investigation and they will get their story across no matter what and journalists have to be aware of the put possibility that they can be manipulated in such circumstances do you do did you have any tools and different regimes any tools to to to counter this and to fight this then to to try to get away with things that are rather propaganda there was one not only in this case i mean generally i mean. well actually we're not a media organization i mean what we are is an organization which which fights hard to create the conditions so the journalists can do their jobs without interference so our our job really is to say to the israelis in this particular case is to say

hands off the journalist is to say don't put restrictions or obstacles to journalists doing their work and to create the conditions for the best possible flow of information because we actually think that's what journal good journalism is about about creating a good flow of information which tells the whole story doesn't just tell one side of the story and we know that governments whether it is rome or other government will always tried to get their story across no matter what is the interesting thing you say we say no restrictions but people who want one sided story they usually trying to help a joke to say we will help you we will share with you wolf a similar table give you the transport to everything access even mini me just do it our way through that does happen in many parts of the world unfortunately we have real corruption in the relationship between vested interests and journalists and we do see brown envelopes changing hands a lot in many parts the world and that's that can be put down to in some conditions

where actually journalism exists in terribly twilight conditions of poverty and social neglect and i think vested interest take advantage of that. government or particularly powerful groups will pay journalists will sort of encourage them. to be biased now we have to campaign against that we have to say we have to say that this sort of activity is corrupt is unacceptable and what we need to have is much more respect from the government downwards and right away through society for the role that good journalism plays in building democratic society speaking about quality journalism the i have just recently stated and i'm going to going to quote that publishers of traditional news media and those systematically abandoning fundamental principles are in the best journalism and are cutting jobs stopping investigative journalism seizing training and adapting business models based on the opposite of ethical journalism. does that mean that the eye of gerry is alarmed

by the situation we call it is here isn't it is it true what i said the very beginning of the program that the quality of journalism in general is getting lower and lower unfortunately i think that's right i mean i think we are alarmed by the situation and the fact of the matter is that you know at this particular moment it's a historic period for media and for journalism because we see the dramatic changes that have taken place in technology means that traditional business models that have delivered returns for business investment in journalism no longer work the migration of the tabloids well while the the nuts not always the case but the migration of advertising to the internet and changing habits of consumers has had a really damaging effect now what how have media responded to this unfortunately they've responded by really trying to cut the cost base and what they've done is is in a way they've they're cutting their own throat that is to say they've they've started sucking journalist has been

a talent lost within journalism they've cut back on training they've cut back on investment in investigative journalism as a result of that the quality of media. isn't the quality of journalism it is in decline you mention tabloid in fact what we see is an attempt to grab or dns through sensational journalism which is often often very populist very short term and often appeals to the base instincts so we're seeing how it tends to low taste we see it we're seeing a rise in in journalism which is fomenting extremism more racism more xenophobia more alarmist media this is population it's an attempt to use headlines to grab already and grab circulation boost. the consumer range but in the process there's a great loss to quality and the loss to quality isn't just in terms of the jobs of journalists it's also in terms of the contribution journalism makes to democracy

says a wide general secretary of the editor national federation of journalists spotlight will be back shortly right after a break we'll continue this interview stay with its. first three remove cold call the clear cut. second explosives are used to plans to delete the material. heard the remains are removed machinery. finally easy someone who is deposited in vallecito. on our. houses parking. cars

appliances it's only your until they come to visit you. do you think the property bought on credit really. belongs to you. on our. welcome back to spotlight i'm out here not just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is mr aden why general secretary of the international federation of journalists we're talking about journalism we're talking about the problems that we share i mean not only journalists only those who write also those who read and watch what we do and well we we've got together here because it's been exactly twenty years sense since the parliament in russia passed a law on journalism forbidding forbidding the propaganda censorship of the say the

times by the way mr white. you know probably should know that all the russian journalists are very proud of the fact that that our law of jail is that that exists today is the one of the most democratic and the most free laws in the world it gives gives gives a. great amount of freedom as a person it is a good you do is it what the we like to believe or is it true for those without a salute really i think the media law here in russia is a tremendous contribution to underpinning the important role the good journalism plays in building democracy i don't think any doubt about it i think twenty years on we can say look the year we've had the law and we've got lots of experience but many of the challenges facing journalists and media still remain that the fact of the matter is the law doesn't doesn't doesn't talk enough about the structure of media so it doesn't talk enough about problems of concentration of ownership for

example as there is with many years face of our life here the problem is not the law but the implementation there's absolutely no question at all that getting a getting a good constitutional protection for rights is vital so. freedom of expression protected in your constitution a good media law absolutely essential but in the end they are only going to be useful if there is the political will to properly implemented them to make them viable and so where there's a lack of political will to to create the conditions in which the media law can deliver to all citizens in every part of the country the sort of information that they need in order to participate in democracy then then the law is going to look good on paper but in practice it's going to be found wanting and i think this is the this is the challenge that russian journalists are looking at today we've got the law and i think russian going to be congratulated for it because actually russian journalists were part of the authorship of the law so they should go up themselves on the back because i think it's important but i think

a big question that's facing them today is why isn't the law delivering the low. pluralism that our democracy needs three years ago in this studio your main issue you talked about was the impunity of crimes against all journalists to russia has something changed in these three are i'm actually i'm pleased to say i think something has changed in the last three years when we've dealt with that question we've we've carried out a specific analysis of what's been going on with our russian colleagues we've actually prepared a very detailed database of information about the victims of violence and so on we produced an important report which was launched last year called partial justice which actually shows that the situation has begun to improve the fact of the matter is the judicial system here in russia is now investigating these crimes in a much more effective way than they did previously we're beginning to see. a change in the approach which recognises that when a journalist is

a victim of violence it needs to be very specific investigation of the case and so on now there are cases which remain emblematic and problematic the. the sky cases is it is is is one in point so there are there are cases which one has to say want that more has to be done but in general i think it's right to say that the extra scrutiny that has gone in over the past three years into the way the russian judiciary and the police and the authorities deal with the attacks on journalists gives us encouragement and i think this is this is a good thing i want to ask you a personal question well every time the russian journalist union headed by c. of our mutual friend has problems in this country with the authorities with anybody you are always all his side what i wanted to ask you is because of just to solidarity because because because you like a trade union or because you believe that this union is doing a good thing the sunni's doing

a great job you know that some unions don't actually do a great job some unions. i find it difficult to adjust to change there's a massive change taking place in our industry a lot of it's exciting and a lot of it is really challenging and some of our unions are finding it difficult to adjust to the process of change i think in russia you've got a very vibrant media community there are lots of things happening in the a lot of challenges there's a free press in russia people who say there is no free press in russia are living in a different world of course is a free press it's not as effective as it can be many journalists are suffering in conditions which are deplorable there's too much poverty there's too much corruption in some of the regions and so on there are many difficulties but the fact of the matter is real efforts being made to change the situation and i think the russian union has consistently over the years been in the forefront of pushing the authorities and pushing the media industry itself to be bringing about change in the story. what's your back to something you said earlier in this in this

interview you mentioned engineer journalism when they were talking about problems is it in their journalism killing print journalism traditional journalism look i don't think internet journalism is killing print journalism at all but i mean i think one of the things you have to we have to understand is the internet is doing a great thing it's actually opening up the global conversation for everybody in a way that it is allowing freedom of expression in a way which we could never have imagined twenty years ago and that's a great thing it's a great thing for democracy it's great for journalism but the fact the matter is that when a blogger is writing a piece that's not journalism necessarily mean because the internet allows us to say what we want when we want how we want that free expression we love that journalism isn't the same sort of thing when we journalists work we have to work in the framework of a set of values we have to tell the truth we have to be accountable this will balance and well we have to be responsible and accountable for what we do we have to be transparent so we actually have restricted freedom of expression that's what

makes journalism different from internet parties. like bloggers and others and so on and it's that quality of journalism the cohesiveness the more influential at the same time it makes it more influential because people trust it more people trust journalism because it is organized in a framework of values now i think that's that's the biggest challenge and here in russia there's a campaign called the formular of trust which is seeking to build a new bridge of dialogue between journalism and society to try to get society to understand and appreciate the really specific value of ethical journalism in building democracy and pluralism but anyway the internet has been growing ever more popular as a source of news and spotlights you learn that the media has more and that right now. it's no longer necessary to wait for a news block on t.v.

to pay for a news paper you can go online in a minute and discover everything you wanted to know for free traditional journalism is being challenged by the rip the development of digital technologies with new portable devices information is no even more accessible moreover anyone can become a source of news blogs have become a popular alternative to traditional mass media lack of restraint on the web results in greater freedom for bloggers their hands are not tied by editorial policy and they're often and not only must and names been replaced with online leak names. governments around the world are trying to regulate the web protection terms of time with the public discontent and accusations of sounds this year newspapers and t.v. channels are trying to get charged with the trend and have their own online versions and their own staff google groups according to a recent survey by the pew research center in the west online news has already

become more popular with americans then we didn't use the words. well. that. isn't really destroying traditional journalism but is blogging and twittering and etc is it replacing is it an alternative to traditional journalism look i don't think it is an alternative the fact the matter is there's an enormous amount of change which is going on in journalism in the media industry we've seen over the last five to ten years thousands and thousands of people have been thrown out of work every month a major metropolitan daily has closed in the united states over the last year or so we've got massive changes taking place in the media market but and the big changes as well through the internet because it's that of the changing habits in which people receive information and give information and communicate with one of the all of which i think is extremely positive news for but the fact of the matter is the essential need for quality of information remains the same and the fact is is that

people will only trust information if they believe that it's credible if it's transparent and if it's accountable and journalism provides transparency credibility and accountability that's what makes it different that's what makes it important so i don't think the internet and i don't think blogging blogging and twittering whatever it is actually doing journalism down but i think it's asking it is raising a serious question and that serious question is is a straightforward one if information pluralism is vital for democracy and that information pluralism can no longer be provided by the private sector in media then the question is. who will provide it and who will pay for it and that is actually at the heart of a very big debate that's now taking place inside journalism and inside the media industry about the future because one of the big questions is if we're going to have journalism in the future that will serve democracy and serve citizens in the way that it has in the past and we need it how is it going to be financed will this

this really is a big question but it's if we talk about this crisis of credibility call me so from your personal point of view who would you like you personally is who would you like to help. fight overcome this crisis the state of big business look i mean i'd. question caller a it's a very very difficult sort of choice to make i cheated i think there's a third partner here and you haven't referred to and that's the problem such that consumers it's the public and that's one of the reasons why i'm very pleased about the way that the russian journalists have built their campaign to try and build a new bridge of dialogue with civil society it seems to me that relying on big business enough will not deliver relying on the state can compromise independence so we have to find a mix that will always be big big business and always be the state involved but we have to look for new models in the united states at the moment in many parts of europe there's a big discussion about whether or not there can be foundations or new ways of

raising public levies or subscriptions in order to fund media because in order to fund journalism as well because we need investigative journalism the only way you can scrutinize power if you've got people who are investigating asking certain questions and producing the reports that tell people what's going on thank you thank you very much for being with us and just a reminder that say you've been listening to aid why didn't the secretary of the international federation of journalists and that's it for the hour from all of us here if you're there yourself spotlight just drop me a line will be back with more for the comment on the world. going on in and outside russia until then stay in r.t. and take care thank you.

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