wealthy british scientists are. sometimes right in the. markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines to name two kinds of reports on our. news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. trying to corporations or the day.

in some petersburg oh she's available in hotels a story of a little ambassador in a small speech you could tell the truth of this hotel the true story toto told you gold you know tilson to. take stone. and see if this business. crosstalk is on the way here in our team but first the headlines they shoot but

will they score free friends factors come to russell to look over the bit in that football's biggest prize hosting the world cup in twenty eight teams are to talk to those who have to play for. five years after israeli settlers were uploaded from gaza thousands of jewish people living in the west bank they're also about to be forced from their homes. and the weather crisis just might go on russia's hit by hurricanes and torrential rain in the northwest all still reeling from weeks of unprecedented heat wave burning wildfires and something small . coming up next in our t.v. robust debate guaranteed in cross talk on this edition peter lavelle asked his guests if the nature of globalization has changed because of the financial crisis and whether our process of d. globalization has in fact occur.

the united states of america is waging war within its own army. joe now advantage is our no one sign. of human losses are quite significant. is it possible to win the war against sexual assault in the u.s. armed forces sex in the army. keep. a low and welcome the cross-talk i'm peter lavelle globalization is a fact of everyday life but how is globalization changed during the financial crisis who benefits from it most and can the developed world learn something from emerging markets. and.

to discuss how globalization is changing i'm joined by rodney shakespeare in london he's one of the founders of the global justice movement also in london we have saskia sassen a professor at columbia university and in paris we cross to rest he is the co-director of the european center for international political economy and another member of our cross talk team yelena hunger if i go to you first in london. through the course of this last eighteen months of the global financial crisis in your opinion how has this concept of globalization changed has it changed with the global financial crisis well it has changed indeed it has changed in several ways one way is the notion off its vulnerability the notion that my god this is the end of globalization i think that is. correct there are many different globalization's

the second way in which it changed is a second sort of misrepresentation which is the notion aha the national state is back in force but really what has happened is that national taxpayers' money has been used by national executive branches of government to rescue a global financial system so the third item for me is will people understand including commentators that this is not a return to nationalism it's just a different type of globalization in terms of the corporate economy and finance then there are all the other transnational civil society organizations and that is a history in the making let's see how they may perhaps discover a new instruments with which to fight corporate economic globalization running if i can go to you i think it's very interesting which i'm scared to say because it seems like globalization works for the world of finance ok we have bailouts but

really they're just bailing out banks all over the world you saw him on wall street and we've seen it in greece greece is not going to get that money it's going to go to the banks that they won't get to them in the first place so is is there a de globalization in some cases in intensified globalization in other cases. is this an intensified globalization a great market of finance. has in fact become more extreme partly it's because they removed certain constraints are partly because new economic doctrines have come to say that whatever the banking system does that it creates money for every purpose including the casino economy but that is good and serves the purposes and there is a third aspect which is in fact probably which is the computerized economy and the overall effect of this is that control has moved. right into the hands of the finance groups or governments group and the rest of them at the same time the real

economy of ordinary people is actually getting worse fifty five percent of people who live under three dollars a day that remains the same twenty five thousand people who die each day from the effects of dirty water and i could go on citing fact after fact globalisation is supposed to be efficient free market economy but it's not free market most people do not have access to capital it is not fair think of the circumstances for a woman who has children she's not part of the official economy she works very hard and as for outcomes being efficient well in the united states forty million people are on food stamps so the thing is actually getting worse it's not doing what it should do and we are in fact in the second stage at the beginning of a second stage of a second downward lake of collapse which will go on for another fifteen or twenty years i said i'm going to you in paris here what is your opinion what is the state

of globalization now because there are certainly people that embrace it in other people say this is it has nothing to do with a free market economy it has nothing to do with liberty and democracy and all these other social issues here what is this need of globalization in your opinion. or well it's certainly worse than it was before the crisis but i wouldn't i wouldn't exaggerate the effect what we saw roughly from about nine hundred eighty to the onset of the crisis was the biggest globalization in economic terms and at least the world has ever seen in terms of trade foreign investment to some extent the movement of people movement of capital as well what we've seen in the wake of the crisis is a short term sharp the globalization with a contraction of trade flows of investment. shrinkage of global capital but we have seen a mild rebound since then overall. in historical terms i think we're still

in process of economic globalization i think it's delivered enormous benefits yes what we've seen in the wake of the crisis is much less confidence in the market economy and globalization overall but what we haven't seen is a significant reversal we haven't seen huge protectionism around the world we haven't seen a return to the one nine hundred thirty s. what we have seen are somewhat increased government interventions in different parts of the world but overall i'm not terribly person mystic about where we are today i think we have a blip on the screen that the chances are reasonable that we'll will return to the kind of globalization that we saw before the crisis. if i go to some changes but you know one of the one of the things i think about when i look at this financial crisis and globalization is that this is something really has to change

to make sure we don't have this happen again and again we just financial izing the global economy because it seems like banks the banking system is always going to be saved but nothing else is saved and depending on how you look at it europe the european countries of the european union are losing their sovereignty hand-over fist right now ok i mean is that a positive thing to say about globalization we're going to ask you first and we'll go to paris yeah let me first also say a comment on that make a comment on what dress sheen said he's right in saying i agree with him when he says said globalization is not about to disappear and we're talking about economic corporate globalization we're dealing with techno economic system that are de facto global they are not about to ring nationalize anytime so i agree. is that where i disagree and here i am closer to what you were saying rodney that is

the whole issue of how it affects you know questions of income distribution. advantages disadvantages who are the losers i do think that number one crisis is built into finance it's just part so we shouldn't be shocked if we see we have a financial crisis we have had since the 1980's five major crises and about seventy what are called country adjustment crises but they're all crises the question then is is there a difference in the current crisis and i see a difference and and here i divert i think from rush him and his evaluation it is the following to keep this system going at the highest levels i don't mean the poverty you know that's easy to keep that going i mean to keep the sort of the heart of this global corporate economy going and the high finance system that we

have it means more and more extract of taxes from citizens all over the seven hundred billion fund in the e.u. is another mechanism for extracting taxpayers' money secondly states increasingly indebted to beg as you said much of that greek bailout is not going anywhere near greece it is going to pay of bank loans for what so that the greek government can make more loans so the question that i see the big change is that we have really managed in thirty years to reach a point where we have on the one hand enormous technological advances enormous wealth yes have a billion people in india and china have become middle class on the other hand we have our impoverishing the citizenry of the highly developed countries or when you are in polish in this one. do that in the second part of the run you want to jump in there go ahead. yes look russian with essentially expressing one of the

fundamental assumptions of neoclassical economics which is that everything is ultimately in it pretty quickly and will return to librium but that is not what has happened something much more fundamental question is now taking place and we just take the one latest example even when greece is bailed out its deficit as a percentage of gross national product will be one hundred fifty percent and it will be on paper i'm repayable face the facts that the greek is going to have to pull out or be smashed out of the euro and they're going to be knock on effects in country after country hungary that vs the estonia lithuania portugal greece iceland the forty eight states or the united states all we're just talking governments we're not talking corporations we're not talking individuals we're not talking towns or cities we're talking national governments they're virtually all

going bankrupt now that it's not just that temporary phenomenon if you're feeling increasing phenomena are i be ready for the discussion here looking again i mean i'm just been hearing after a short break we'll continue our discussion on globalization stay with r.t. . if you. still. want. to sue in the military because i thought that it was my duty it was something that i do to help my country i believe my government that it's necessary for americans you know. there was a lot of drug abuse there was a lot of murder of american office. by american soldiers there are a lot of news stories news story out of. the war i

always thought i wanted to win a lot of medals and they have a lot of declarations but afterwards i realize that they don't mean anything they're not that important. i don't i don't i never the medal. wealthy british style.

market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my stronger for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kaiser report. and you can see. the book. welcome back to cross talk i'm peter lavelle tree mind you were talking about how the process of globalization has changed since the financial crisis. and if you. stood. before let's say how globalization affects russians. globalization refers to the blurring of borders between countries creating a global market and bringing new security challenges yet economists politicians and

sociologists are divided on the merits of globalization in russia an opinion poll last citizens how globalization effects they like twenty percent saw the process as positive saying it helps share experiences with others around the world however thirty two percent saw it as negative as it makes russia dependent on factors all side its control and other seventeen percent believe global is ation has no impact on the l.a. back to peter. ok before we went to the break romney was mentioning how the difference between the developed developing world in developed world have experienced globalization during this crisis and i'd like to continue with that thought here arresting in paris i mean it in a way it looks like first of all the emerging markets are recovering from this crisis much much faster they didn't they really took on the gospel of having good

economic solid economic policies not like western countries i mean in a way if globalisation is continuing or are they going to continue to benefit from it or is it because of globalization that they continue to benefit. or well they're contributing to it and they're benefiting from it but let me go back to some of the odd news points which i thought were complete both bunkum i would try and deconstruct his around all the facts and the assumptions that were wrong with it but let me make let me make three or four points the first thing is this the first thing is this. the effects of economic globalization particularly in the last three decades or so with the insertion of much of the developing world including china russia india brazil and so on has been historically unprecedented in terms of growth. in terms of removal of hundreds of millions of people in the developing world from poverty in terms of an overall increase of wealth although there are

inequalities here and there now proportionately it's the developing world that has benefited the most and we see that particularly in china and other parts of east asia but we shouldn't forget that both consumers and producers in the west in europe and in north america have also benefited to a very very large extent second point blow belies ation is much more than just about finance and finance is not a busy embodied part of globalization it is about trade it's about investment it's about the movement of people as well not just rich people but also poor people in search of better lives financial globalization is very much at the heart of that process and i think it's facile not just bad economics but bad everything else to think of financial globalization is something isolated and something that one can one can constrict in

a little box while other parts of globalization go on yes we have seen massive excesses in global finance which the crisis has shown much of that by the way is due to big failures in government policy in monetary policy i think all right right now if you want to respond to those points there. very shortly that was a complacent statement and one of the facts that i put forward was addressed i don't wish to say there is no case last year i can go to you i mean what is the difference here i mean the way the developing world in the developed world did have experience globalization because it seems to be as easy you pointed out earlier i mean. i didn't use the word i was not the first person to throw in these very complacent but i mean the living in a culture of debt of borrowing and in the developed. always told the developing world you better be careful with your finances and you know in fact they have been it was the developed world really didn't listen to its own its own scripture as it

were. well i mean if i wanted to use a grant. the powerful tend to abuse their own power and sort of nail themselves against the cross so to speak i hope i don't offend any christians here by invoking the cross but you know i think that takes time to like brazil brazil has an economy of manufacturing of mining you know all kinds of of things that are real. just a fact eighty percent of the people who live in sao paolo which is the global city and the global south really. own their homes they all bought it in cash so to speak now eighty percent means quite a bit of the middle class in other words the level of financial lies of the brazilian economy is not lower than the u.s. than the u.k. so by the way is the german economy german economies and the french economy there

are less financial than the u.k. and the united states so it is quite possible that when we look at national economies as rodney was doing that the u.s. has really damaged its own people in its own state in a very serious sense but secondly also in brazil to take an example that is much admired there is enormous inequality in china central committee of the communist party i am an honorary advisor to the national academy of planners etc so i get involved in china. they have declared that inequality is one of the big issues there and last year there were nineteen thousand revolts in china it was not the norm rich middle classes you know so we are dealing with a system that is producing enormous inequality and i would agree with one point that was. me. which is the failure of national governments in

governing finance but also in governing the larger market effects that this kind of capitalism you know where if you go to you i mean this financial ization of economies is this something that the developed countries have to slowly work away from i mean it's going to be in europe it's going to be a very long i'm certainly not a state is going to be a very long time to pay off this dead the debts that are being accumulated right now in the eurozone are huge as well in the timelines a lot shorter how can they move away from the financial ization process in the economy because it certainly benefits a small group of people that have every interest in keeping it going. i disagree with the premise yes we have seen a considerable overextension of the financial sector in handful of economies notably in the united states and in the u.k. that had a lot to do with government policy by the way because monetary policy was deliberately loose and that allowed

a lot of this bubble like effect to take place but let me go back to my main point and this is where i think i would disagree somewhat with the. finance including global finance is very important and it's contributed to the broadly beneficial effects we've seen from from globalization so i don't want to see. taming or a reversal of of global finance and i think that would be that would be very counterproductive saskia talked of some economy is that had emphasized manufacturing and so-called real things. over services again i think that's that's somewhat. somewhat distorted way of looking at it if you look at all honestly like i. say it's not always everything started distorted according to you if i may come out of this i mean you've got everything which is coming. yes everything which is coming from paris ultimately seems that things are going fine that's

a bit of trouble but they will get back into balance it's a very smart it's very complaisant and it does not affect the facts which i put forward early on in this program if i may move forward on this do what has would you attack. go ahead run me keep going and we will have what has to happen that has to be an attack on global finance which is a narrow thing and devoted purely to the interests of financial corporations and their supporters people like obama are completely controlled by those institutions instead the banking system we speak stopped from creating money let it lend its own money and let it lend that money obviously positive with permission and then open up a new money supply from the national banks ministers by the banking system for the purposes of developing and spreading a really productive economy to every single individual in the population nothing in present free market capitalism tries to do that ok what i'm proposing this is

a gentle process and it can spread productive capacity and get that balance which is required in the economy regardless of the present system about. rodney wants to take us back to the dark ages we've had national control of finance before it's been highly destructive not only colonies all i saw into what i said well that's that's what i listened very carefully that's one that's what you certainly implied. two things about about finance and global finance i am not in favor of governments providing artificial crutches for big banks particularly not allowing larry very sorry you know there is fascinating conversation we've run out of time many thanks to our guest today rodney shakespeare in rason sally in. thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. promise to come.

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