as the u.s. pulls its troops out of iraq some former soldiers say they've been abandoned by the country they've fought for many claim the government is failing to take care of its war heroes but volunteers step in to help the veterans adjust to civilian life. alleged russian arms dealer viktor who could be just hours away from extradition to the u.s. his lawyer claims a plane is waiting for him at a bangkok airport who faces a number of charges in the u.s. including terrorism and illegal weapons trading something he's always denied if convicted he faces a maximum life sentence in prison. just felt just some kagan that i don't think will at the pain itself will never ever leave me. women's rights campaigners sound the alarm over the rise in the number of female genital mutilation cases in the u.k. although the practice is illegal in the country no one's ever been convicted of a crime and thousands of them said to be at risk each year. now you're up to date up next we have our t.v. interview show spotlight this time host al gore and of talks to the founder of the

world values study ronald in the heart to find out if human values are changing and what he has to say about russians in particular that's coming your way in a moment here on r.t. . hungry for the full story we've got it from the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news makers. that every month we give you the future we hope you understand how to get there and want to more the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world to join us for technology update on our g.

hello again and welcome to the show on r.t. i'll bring all of my guest in the studio is wrong. he made his name in sociology back in the nineteen seventies by discovering a major cultural shift in the western society to describe the new reality here introduce the word post materialist for thirty years he has been conducting the influential world values survey and wished directions human values changing we the people become a happier and why all the nations so. ronald hart is on spotlight today to answer mine and your questions. in doha is a political scientist who developed the social theory of materialism the theories a useful tool in understanding modern culture used to research focuses on cultural

change and its consequences he discovered the values of people in boston dust will calm trees remarkably he's author of last few good knowledge and his words have been translated into sixty languages professor han founded and head of the global network of social scientists called the world values celebrate. in your heart is the guest who spoke like today to talk about those changes. hello and welcome to the show thank you very much for being with us nice to be with you right now well first of all you say in your research that in the west the transition from the society with material values to a post material society has happened in the sixty's one exact. leave the sixty's why are you sure it didn't happen earlier later or why do you think the sixty's it began to happen in the sixty's got it began to happen in sixty's because that was

when the post-war generation began to surface into the adult population it didn't happen over the whole world much of the world is still fairly materialist most of the world but the rich countries western europe japan north america australia you etc began to surface as a new kind of basic value priorities that i call post materialist in the sixty's because this was twenty years after the end of world war two the economic miracles that western europe and japan and so on experience plus the welfare state made people grow up for the first time most of the population these country was growing up under conditions where they took survival for granted this is unprecedented most people throughout most of history and most people still today grow up with survival being uncertain with starvation being a real possibility the germans the swedes the americans who grew up in that era. didn't they took survival for granted and that was a big big change it opened the way for other things to take top priority so in the

sixty's we started out with student protest this was the era when student protests from six hundred sixty four sixty eight to have pain is not anything only real drives on us. all the world or in many many countries there was student protest because this was a generation that for the first time. the majority of them had pushed materialist values the older people all of the older people were had been experiencing world war two the great depression world war one starvation had been very real they had they knew that this could happen and this was a different world in which imagination self-expression choosing your way of life personal freedom were more important than ever before and at that time interestingly there was this slogan in many countries don't trust anyone over thirty because there was this big generational divide everyone older was. pre-war

generations now things have changed to the point where even the middle aged people have grown up after world war two ok i have a question for you well now nowadays many western countries well the best examples are greece greece portugal spain they are reducing their welfare programs they're cutting the programs the citizens have to obviously to tighten the belts. do you think it will have consequences on the people in the values of the people will they from now on have to think once again about survival rather than self-expression in the short run certainly the no one likes these measures are very unpopular and the government in greece as you know is extremely unpopular to the point where some of the hiding the it's. it's a real crisis the values are another thing the media the immediate reaction is we hate it but the basic values don't change that fast mostly values change during

your first twenty years use bit of basic personality that doesn't change very much afterward so the basic values won't change overnight if what happens is the start of a decade or two decades of severe. severe poverty then they would turn to work in the opposite direction to build logic you're absolutely right here in the long run if we are in our starting the great depression of the twenty first century then i would predict a turn back to all of us' and tuesday in a full more authoritarian government all kinds of things that were characteristic of the 1930's in the great depression. russia according to your survey russia is a country that really has very poor in terms of self-expression more or tends to. clench to material value on the other hand russia is not. a very traditional country today in all its favors it favors new values rather

than the traditional values well does it really make a difference for russia may be russia's values is facilitate development towards a developed democracy i think that there is a great emphasis on economic development that's highly desired high priority and in fact i would say depending on which state you develop would you rather this is something i would give high priority to myself if i were even more so if i were governing a low income country economic development would be top priority at a higher level development it has less payoff in terms of happiness quality of life beyond a certain point getting two cars in every garage is ok but a third car is not really doing much for you and it's not into pollution and noise and trotting all kinds of stuff is kind of diminishing return from economic growth

russia is at a stage where they have experience as you know. dreadful setbacks the. period from about the collapse of communism around ninety nine b. the breakup of the soviet union the gross national product went down to about forty percent of its former a low ball life expectancy furl order all kinds of very severe things happen and the the reaction of the russian people was reemphasizing survival values and interestingly they turned traditional religious values war two so they're growing and expanding in russia it's a trend where the logic is your security makes you have these new values in security would push in the opposite direction well russia actually has gone through a period of radical transformation in the last twenty years the ideals were changing together with the political and economic situation spotlighted in

a degree that has more in that. nine hundred ninety one so russians intoxicated by the promise of democratic freedoms after more than seventy years off to tell a terror no one could imagine then how hard the transition to win your society would be and the shelves in shops factories standing still cellar is delayed the previously on thought of idea of unemployment these were the side effects of saying goodbye to a state run economy and winding hand first into capitalism many felt nostalgia for the economic stability of the old times or the collapse of the u.s.s.r. russians or to reconcile themselves to the communist ideology afterwards they were truly had to learn to survive democratic values lost much of their in the shell charm accumulating wealth was more important the attitude was reflected in the russian pop culture which became obsessed with the phenomenon of grammar. at the

last decade so you can. mixed ability gradually return to russia and civil society emerging after years of being quite passive politically russians and once again ready to go onto the streets to defend their rights the latest example a moderates who lists over the use of force and the rights on the horrors of moscow's of the ip. well you mentioned twenty years as like like the world which are developing like a trend valley as well russia has been developing for the last twenty years we've changing at least rapidly so what can you say about these twenty years in in russia's development do you think your survey have the values little changed radically changed radically and into where is russia along with very loose in ukraine were among the very few countries in the world industrialized countries that were moving toward survival values and traditional religious values at

a time when most of the world during the first decade after ninety nine he was moving toward self-expression secularization and so on. ran two thousand russia began to get prosperous again and so that really severe depression that had had brought russians to a feeling of happiness and dissatisfaction it was extreme it russia had added one hundred ninety four the lowest level of life satisfaction and happiness of any big country and or with a handful of other goodies away down low people much poorer countries like pakistan india nigeria this was the reaction to the world that they knew the belief system they knew the whole world seem to come apart more recently order has been restored the country is getting more prosperous and we see signs of recovery of happiness and i think in the long run yes happens that's interesting you know you know there

was one of the things we measure is happiness and that has changed this was. in general in the introduction you actively asked about happiness russia was a country that had been sharply declining over that happiness initially it was already a nine hundred eighty one not very happy and then by the by the mid ninety's it was at the lowest level we've ever seen russia says sociologist professor ronald i go hard spotlighted will be back shortly right after the break we'll continue in less than a minute so didn't help. it . sure is the same. i mean when i say. this to the world the turn of robin should the rich be taxed more for the benefit to everyone else and what kind of.

thanks. thanks. i was looking around the. house. just.

welcome back to spotlight i'm algor naaman just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is professor ronald angle hard director of the world values survey a global network of social scientists professor well i've read your surveys way you measure the level of happiness or rather the level. the measure the percentage of people who feel themselves happy and certain kind of your first of all one of the one of the best results are in countries like venezuela will which isn't the most prosperous country in the world well america is very high on this survey while italy and france are lower than that of the middle so does it mean really of the level of happiness of people who are the ability of propaganda

inside the country that charice to to to to to make people believe that they realize that what that the life they live is a happy life you know where you flatter me i would like to believe that the american government was had a campaign to make the scores on my happiness skills come up i'm not sure that they're even aware that we're measuring happiness i think it's. i think that these are realistic mergers and if you do you're going to make sense there are some surprises one thing that you won't be surprised is rich countries are happier in poor countries a strong correlation a sort of steep increase as you go from starvation mean by rich country russia is one of the richest countries in the world with a population that it's there that is by no means one of the richest in the world so when you say richest what is russia a rich country or a poor country many of the income of the every dollar of the income of india it's the intimacy of resource and how secure they are and russia of course is

a really interesting case here they have severe changes that devastated have. listen russia should people when i ask you about propaganda i wanted to know is that should the people be. think that they are happy is it good is it healthy for society or should the people rather say no we don't like the way we live because we want to live better which is more healthy well i think that being dissatisfied to a certain extent is good in terms of literal in terms of healthiness people who are happy tend to be healthier it's like reverse more relaxed feeling and also having good health contributes to happiness so the two work for each other but i would say this is a real measure it correlates with a lot of other indicators that you would expect like my satisfaction job satisfaction having a family people who get divorced tend not to be happy people who get widowed tend not to be happy and a correlates with interesting things like the political level. is correlated with

democracy democratic living in a democracy is a happier experience generally they're living in a country russia had a very unusual transition to democracy so it what are the other way of mostly becoming more democratic contributes to happiness well spotlights card so she went out to the streets of moscow and tried to find out if money can make people happy let's have a look. hi there well let's go see anybody that thinks money. doesn't help me today i'll try to find out if it really makes people. think you are probably money can give you freedom but it can't make you happy there's a saying that many can't make you happy i agree with it being a. money is fun freedom it gives you a lot of things what else any of the reasons. simplicity money brings you

joy you can do whatever you like you whatever you want. if you have no money you can do whatever you want and if you have no money you can do what you want hence the conclusion money's happens. getting it love. money is not the key thing in life you can't make all the money in the world and the money spoils people you know one historical books had that money and power corrupts people that means the more money you have the more you want it you want more and more and more and i know some people who went mad because of it people just break when they go broke. or stress the money doesn't make me happy because happiness is something else some people say it depends on how much you've got but in fact everything depends on the people that surround you and on your emotions and state of mind. yes but i think

it's a good question i always try to make myself happy without it by i don't always succeed i try to do it this way. how i've got to tell you you're you've got a question par get. to sleep with the idea happy countries have such a high suicide rate. professor that's a good question ok that's actually a mess yes it is a bit by bit we read it in the paper here so we don't know what what why are they one of the highest rate of suicides. has more you has a surprisingly high suicide rate but hungary finland japan korea a bunch of other countries have even higher suicide rates i think there are a couple things involved sweden does have a surprisingly high suicide rate for a country there are a happy norway denmark if you which are just as happy or happy or have low suicide rates i think that there is a historic tradition where suicide was acceptable in sweden more than in most

societies the protestant counties in general i mean a real. legislate religiously protestant countries except suicide and i think you know region tradition the berserkers or the warriors who would go into battle planning to die or get in jail in japan they have had a key by that they had a bible that here that's how culture often looked as if honor's suicide but but they do have a lower suicide rate than sweden did and it's about the same but the say yes it is interesting but the. catholic countries of course stigmatize suicide you can be buried in a catholic cemetery you go to hell that's a very bad thing so suicide is under reported in those countries. that's it's a very good question but i think by and large it's misleading because a tiny tiny tiny percent of the people people commit suicide we're measuring said representative samples the population and the swedes in the days of the norwegians

reliably in survey after survey by b. or by other people a rank high in happy let's talk about russia once again you you mentioned that russia russia is a weird it is a strange situation i mean even in your survey we just heard it and this and this little pole in the streets of moscow which is one of the most expensive cities in the world and most of the people and we try to be objective when we do the service say that money is is not what you really need to be happy even in a city like moscow now if you move that like a hundred miles out of moscow i mean it will be all of the sites so why is that happening because money is an illusion it is if you think more money will buy bring more happy lately has been the only ideology in russia for the last twenty years that you've been talking now what ideology is a make twenty well it'll make you happy and people down there don't buy it i wouldn't buy it either i would say it's part of happiness when you're starving

getting enough money to survive on does contribute out because there's this very steep increase if you go forward real. the desperately poor country to portugal or south korea there's a big increase in happiness above that a kind of levels off it brings you less and less and even no matter where you go it's not as important as having a happy family having good friends things like that it contributes i would not dismiss money as it's easier to be happy with money than without it but he's bill gates the happiest man in the world by no means i very much doubt it he is i have no idea how happy he is but i would not expect him to be wildly happy either he's probably fairly satisfied with his life but. there's this to diminishing returns and russia clearly is at this point where it's partly an illusion the reason why there's a solution is in the short run if you suddenly go from if you double your income suddenly you feel terrific in the short run and in six months or a year you get used to it and it does nothing for you so there's this illusion

getting more big you happy and only doesn't much how does your rankings differ from other social logical surveys and isn't meant to be different from the very beginning no we were intended we use the same measures and they're very reliable for example i can show you a graph the gallup world pool has studied ninety seven of the same countries as we have studied and if you compare their rankings unless that is are those are almost identical it's a reliable thing these are measures that other organizations using similar measures get similar results i think it's better something real it's something we're not accustomed to measuring and it's a very complicated think what goes into happiness is a lot of different things different people value different things i would say having a happy family and. being in love with somebody who loves you is probably the biggest single thing i would recommend but you know money is something you can you can set out to be sure of getting so that's

a goal many people have ok you know with the one that introduced the term. post and their material is right so that can we if we put it simple make it simple a post materialistic society is a society that would not ever never ever compromise freedom democracy to material values is that right now it's a little extreme people are flexible and everyone likes money it's not the bush who pushes the list don't like but your goods would like them like everyone else they'd be eat like everyone else too they need them they like them but they're not the top priority they give higher priority to freedom of speech of course if it was a question of living in desperate poverty they wouldn't like not listen in russia it's obvious that in russia today. money wealth personal wealth is a high priority that even

a speech freedom of president is that what you write here but like in america after nine eleven the whole nation was ready and even eager to compromise these values to security to feel more secure which is which is again and there have been serial thing rather than like. i mean the security is a material thing and there was a huge chance initially there was a huge overreaction today because he's recovered from it but there was a huge reaction in one day washington d.c. and new york were attacked by kind of what's coming next week and next week and next week this feeling so this is what you mean by saying people are flexible yet people respond to their basic values in the long run but they also respond to what happens today they're not real but the values persist a long time but what happens today also shapes you and you're absolutely right this

is exactly the kind of reaction that you would get when security is certainly threatened there was a few. going to clamp down on civil rights and do anything to be safe again but it was a short term thing that can contribute to the rising popularity of george w. bush thank you thank you very much professor was a pleasure to have you with us just a reminder that my guest in the studio today was famous sociologist professor ronald and blind director of the world values survey and that's it for now from all of us here will be back tomorrow with more until then stay and hearty take care thank you you thank .

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