as the u.s. pulls its troops out of iraq some former soldiers say they've been abandoned by the country they fought for many claim the government is failing to take care of its war heroes with volunteers stepping up to help the veterans adjust to civilian life . alleged russian arms dealer viktor boot could be just hours away from extradition to the u.s. his lawyer claims a plane is awaiting him at a bangkok airport faces a number of charges in the u.s. including terrorism and illegal weapons trading something he's always denied if convicted who faces a maximum sentence of life in prison. i just felt just some. that i don't think will at the pain itself will never ever leave me. women's rights campaigners sound the alarm over the rise in the number of female genital mutilation cases in the u.k. although the practice is illegal in the country no one's ever been convicted of a crime and thousands are considered to be at risk each year. i are up to date up next we have our interview show spotlight this time host al gore enough talk to the

founder of the world values study rodell englehart to find out if human values are changing and what he has to say about russians in particular is coming your way next here on acct. hello again and welcome to the show on r.t. i'll bring on and today my guest in the studio is ronald. he made his name in sociology back in the nineteen seventies by discovering a major cultural shift in the western society to describe the new reality here introduce the word post materialist for thirty years he has been conducting the influential world values survey and wish directions human values changing

we the people become a half ear and why all the nations so. ronald engelhard is on spotlight today to answer mine and your questions. in doha is a political scientist who developed the social theory of materialism the theory is a useful tool in understanding modern culture used in the arts research focuses on cultural change and its consequences he discovered the values of people in boston dust real countries and remarkably his other interests abbas to feel that knowledge and use words have been translated into sixty languages professor ingle heart founded and head of the global network of social scientists called the world values celebrate but only in your heart is the guest today to talk about those changers. hello professor in the heart and welcome to the show thank you very much for being

with us nice to be with you first of all you say in your research that in the west the transition from the society with material values to a post material society has happened in the sixty's one exact. plea the sixty's why are you sure it didn't happen earlier later or why do you think the sixty's it began to happen in the sixty's you got it it began to happen in sixty's because that was when the post-war generation began to surface interviewed all populations it didn't happen over the whole world much of the world is still fairly materialist most of the world but the rich countries western europe japan north america australia etc began to surface as a new kind of basic value priorities that i call post materialist in the sixty's because this was twenty years after the end of world war two the economic miracles that western europe and japan and so on experience plus the welfare state made people grow up for the first time most of the population these countries was

growing up under conditions where they took survival for granted this was unprecedented most people throughout most of history and most people still today grow up with survival being uncertain with starvation being a real possibility the germans the swedes the americans who grew up in that era. didn't they took survival for granted and that was a big big change it all went away for other things to take top priority so in the sixty's we started out with student protest this was the era when student protests from six hundred sixty four sixty eight they had pain you know you know anything only rides on us. all the world and many countries there were student protests because this was a generation that for the first time. the majority of them had pushed materialist values the older people all of the older people were had been experiencing world war two the great depression world war one starvation had been very real they had

they knew that this could happen and this was a different world in which imagination self-expression choosing your way of life personal freedom were more important than ever before and at that time interestingly there was this slogan in many countries don't trust anyone over thirty years it was this big generational divide everyone older was pre-war generations now things have changed they've moved on to the point where even the middle aged people have grown up after world war two ok i have a question for you well now nowadays many western countries well the best examples are greece greece portugal spain they are reducing their welfare programs they're cutting the programs the citizens have to obviously to tighten the belts. do you think it will have consequences on the people on the values of the people will they from now on have to think once again about survival rather than self expression

in the short run certainly the no one likes these measures are very unpopular and the government in greece as you know is extremely unpopular to the point where some of them are hiding. it's a real crisis the values are another thing the media the media reaction is we hate it but the basic values don't change that fast mostly values change during your first twenty years use get a basic personality that doesn't change very much afterwards so the basic values won't change overnight if what happens is the start of a decade or two decades of severe. severe poverty than they would tend to work in the opposite direction of the logic you're absolutely right human. long run if we are in a story great depression of the twenty first century then i would predict return back to all used to mean a full more authoritarian government all kinds of things that were characteristic

of the 1930's in the great depression. russia according to your survey russia is a country that really is very poor in terms of self-expression more or tends to to. clinch to material value on the other hand russia is not. a very traditional country today in all its favors it favors new values rather than traditional values well does it really make a difference for russia may be russia's valuers facilitate development towards a developed democracy. i think that there is a great emphasis on economic development that's highly desired high priority and in fact i would say depending on what state you develop what your advice is something i would give high priority to myself if i were even more so if i were governing

a low income country economic development would be top priority at a higher level development it has less payoff in terms of happiness quality of life beyond a certain point getting two cars in every garage is ok but a third car is not really doing much for you and it's adding to pollution and noise and trotting all kinds of stuff is kind of diminishing return from economic growth rushes at a stage where they have experience as you know. dreadful setbacks the. period from about the collapse of communism around ninety nine d. the breakup of the soviet union the gross national product went down to about forty percent of its former a low level life expectancy furl order all kinds of very severe things happen and the the reaction of the russian people was reemphasizing survival values and interestingly a tendency to represent traditional religious values more too so they're growing

and expanding in russia it's a trend where the logic is if security makes you have these new values in security would push in the opposite direction well a russia actually has gone through a period of radical transformation and they in the last twenty years the ideals of what a changing together with the political and economic situation spotlights are going to divvy that has more than that. ninety nine to one so russians intoxicated by the promise of democratic freedoms after more than seventy years off to tell him. no one could imagine then how hard the transition to when you society would be the shelves. shops have to reste and in still sell or is delayed the previously on sort of idea of unemployment these were the side effects of saying goodbye to a state run economy and winding had first into capitalism many felt nostalgia for

the economic stability of the old times or the collapse of the u.s.s.r. russians or to reconcile themselves to the communist ideology afterwards they literally had to learn to survive democratic values lost much of their in the show charm accumulating wealth was more important the attitude was reflected in the russian pop culture which became obsessed with the phenomenon of glamour. that the last decade saw economic stability gradually return to russia and civil society emerging after years of being quite passive politically russians are once again ready to go on to the street to defend their rights the latest example a moderates who lists over the use of flushing the rights on the cars of moscow's b.a.p. . well you know twenty hears is like like are developing like a trend of values well russia has been developing for the last twenty years we've

changing at least rapidly what can you say about these twenty years in in russia's development do you think your survey has a values really changed radically changed radically to where russia along with belarus and ukraine were among the very few countries in the world industrialized countries that were moving toward survival values and traditional religious values at a time when most of the world during the first decade after ninety nine years was moving toward self-expression secularization and so on. ron two thousand russia began to get prosperous again and so that really severe depression that had had brought russians to a feeling of happiness and dissatisfaction it was extreme the russia had added one hundred ninety five the lowest level of life satisfaction and happiness of any big country and of with

a handful of other counties way down low people much poorer countries like pakistan india nigeria this was the reaction to the world that they knew the belief system they knew would be the whole world seem to come apart more recently order has been restored the country is getting more prosperous and we see signs of recovery of happiness and i think in the long run yes that's interesting you know you know that was one of the things we measure is happiness and that has changed this was. in general in the introduction you act to ask about happiness russia was a country that had been sharply declining over the happiness initially it was already united eighty one not very happy and then by the by the mid ninety's it was at the lowest level we've ever seen russia says so c.l.a just professor ronald at the heart spotlight will be back shortly right after the break we'll continue in less than a minute so then that. disarming

saddam hussein. yes majority of iraqi citizens. this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever. thanks guys again every embassy in kabul. generous to once occupied afghanistan. now occupy sales at guantanamo bay. in a manner. that is appropriate today in accordance as much as we can with the geneva. face lab stomach slap if you can should do so that it shocks them

especially if you get a slap but you don't actually break any bones could interrogation techniques that we use in dative kuantan are approved by the senior leadership of our government. we have nothing to hide. we believe transparency. this mystery still keeps its secrets but now it's time to reveal. the soviet side

an honor to. welcome back to spotlight i'm algor naaman just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is professor ronald angle high director of the world values survey a global network of social scientists professor well i've read your surveys way you measure the level of happiness or rather the level. the measure the percentage of people who feel themselves happy and certain kinds you know first of all one of the one of the best results are in countries like venezuela will which isn't the most prosperous country in the world you know well america is very high

and there's so many well italyan fronts are lower than the middle so does it mean really the level of happiness of people who are the ability of propaganda inside the country that charlize to to to to to make people believe that they realize that what that the life they live is a happy life you know where you flatter me i would like to believe that the american government was had a campaign to make the. cores on my happiness skills come up i'm not sure that they're even aware that we're measuring happiness i think it's i think that these are realistic measures and if you do you're going to make sense there are some surprises one thing that you won't be surprised that is rich countries are happier than poor countries a strong correlation a sort of steep increase as you go from starvation you mean by rich country russia is one of the richest countries in the world with a population that it's there that is by no means one of the richest in the world

steps so when you say richard what is russia a rich country or a poor country i mean if you income of the average person of any kind of india it's the income of the average person and how secure they are and russia of course is a really interesting case here they have had severe changes that devastated happiness in russia should people should what i ask you about propaganda i want to know is that should the people be. think that they are happy is it good is it healthy for a society or should the people rather say no we don't like the way we live because we want to live better what is more healthy well i think that being dissatisfied to a certain extent is good in terms of literal in terms of healthiness people who are happy tend to be healthier it's it's linked with less stress more relaxed feeling and also having good health contributes to happiness so the two work for each other but i would say this is a real measure it correlates with

a lot of other indicators that you would expect like my satisfaction job satisfaction having a family people who get divorced tend not to be happy people who get widowed tend not to be happy and a correlates with interesting things like the political level that is correlated with democracy democratic living in a democracy is a happier experience generally than living in a torture in country russia had a very unusual transition to democracy so it went to the other way mostly the. more democratic contributes to happy as well as spotlights cuts she went out to the streets of moscow and tried to find out if money can make people happy let's have a look. hi there well as the saying goes anybody who thinks money will lick those up it doesn't have any today i'll try to put out if money really makes people happy . and i have nothing you're probably many can give you freedom but it can't make

you happy there's a saying that many can't make you happy i agree with it thank you a little governor's money is fun freedom it gives you a lot of things what else any other reasons to separate money brings you joy you can do whatever you like whenever you want and if you have no money you can do whatever you want and if you have no money you can do what you want hence the conclusion money's happens. get in the glove nerves of steel and money is not the key thing in life you can't make all the money in the world and the money spoils people you know one historical books had that money and power corrupts people that means the more money you have the more you want it you want more and more and more and i know some people who went mad because of it people just break when they go broke. or stress the money doesn't make me happy because happiness is something

else some people say it depends on how much you've got but in fact everything depends on the people that surround you and on your emotions and state of mind. yes you know it's a good question i always try to make with. my do always sixty i try to do it this week. i got daddy you got a question. was mostly with the why do happy countries have such a high suicide rate. professor that's a good question ok that's actually a myth yes it is not good but it will read it in the paper you are sweden what why have the one of the highest rate of science. has a more you know it has a surprisingly high suicide rate but hungary finland to prayers career bunch of other countries have even higher suicide rates i think there are a couple things involved sweden does have a surprisingly high suicide rate for

a country of israel happy norway denmark if you which are just as happy or happy or have low suicide rates i think that there is a historic tradition where suicide was acceptable in sweden more than in most societies the protestant countries in general. religiously religiously protestant countries except suicide and i think in the norwegian tradition people sircar's were warriors who would go into battle planning to die then in jane japan they have had a key but they had to be there yeah that's a whole culture of like honors suicide but but they do have a lower suicide rate than sweden did it's about the same but the say yes it is interesting but the. catholic countries of course stigmatize suicide you can be buried in a catholic cemetery you go to hell that's a very bad thing so suicide is under reported in those countries. that's it's a very good question but i think by and large it's misleading because

a tiny tiny tiny percentage of people people commit suicide we're measuring said representative samples the population and the swedes and the danes are the norwegians. a liability in survey after survey by b. or by other people a rank high in happy let's talk about russia once again you you mentioned that russia russia is a weird it is a strange situation i mean even in your survey we just heard it and this and this low poll in the streets of moscow which is one of the most expensive cities in the world and most of the people and we try to be objective when we do the survey say that money is is not what you really need to be happy even in a city like moscow now if you move out like a hundred miles out of moscow i mean it will be all of the sites so why is that happening because money is an illusion is if you think more money will buy bring more happy lately has been the only ideology in russia for the last twenty years

that you've been talking now what ideology is it make twenty well it'll make you happy and people down there don't buy it i wouldn't buy it either i would say it's part of happiness when you're starving getting enough money to survive on does contribute to happiness there's this very steep increase if you go forward really desperately poor country to portugal or south korea there's a big increase in happiness above that a kind of levels off it brings you less and less and even no matter where you go it's not as important as having a happy family having good friends things like that it contributes i would not dismiss money as it's easier to be happy with money than without it but he's bill gates the happiest man in the world by no means i very much doubt it he is i have no idea how happy he is but i would not expect him to be wildly happy either he's probably fairly satisfied with his life but. there's this diminishing returns and russia clearly is at this point where it's probably an illusion the reason why

there's a solution is in the short run if you suddenly go from if you double your income suddenly you feel terrific in the short run and in six months or a year you get used to it and it does nothing for you so. there's this illusion getting more big you happy and lonely doesn't much how does your rankings differ from other social logical surveys and isn't meant to be different from from the very beginning no we were interned we use the same measures and they're very reliable for example i can show you a graph the gallup world paula studied ninety seven of the same countries as we have studied and he's a pervert rankings and i said as i do those are almost identical it's a reliable thing these these are measures that other organizations using similar measures get similar results so i think it's very something real something we're not accustomed to measuring. it's a very complicated think we're going to happiness is a lot of different things different people value different things i would say

having a happy family and. being in love with somebody who loves you is probably the biggest single thing i would recommend but you know money is something you can you can set out to be sure of getting so that's a goal many people have ok you were the one that introduced the term post in their materialism right so now can we if we put it simple make it simple a post materialistic society is a society that would not ever never ever compromise freedom democracy to material values is that right that's a little extreme people are flexible and everyone likes money it's not the folks who push the serialist don't like but your goods they like them like everyone else they'd be eat like everyone else too they need them they like them but they're not the top priority they give higher priority to freedom of speech of course if it was a question of living in desperate poverty they wouldn't like that listen in russia

it's obvious that in russia today. money wealth personal wealth is a high priority. in the speech freedom of president is not what you write here but like in america after nine eleven the whole nation was ready and even eager to compromise these values to security to feel more secure which is which is again at material things rather than like. i mean the security is a material thing and there was a huge sense initially there was a huge overreaction today because he's recovered from it but there was a huge reaction in one day washington d.c. and new york were attacked by kind of what's coming next week and next week and next week because feeling so this is what you mean by saying people are flexible yes people respond to their basic values in the long run but they also respond what

happens today they're not robots the values persist a long time but what happens today also shapes you and you're absolutely right this is exactly the kind of reaction that you would get when security is certainly threatened there was a feeling to clamp down on civil rights and do anything to be safe again but it was a short term thing that can contribute to the rising popularity of george w. bush thank you thank you very much professor was a pleasure to have you with us just a reminder that my guest in the studio today was famous sociologist professor ronald and behind director of the world values survey and that's it for now from all of us here will be back tomorrow with more until then stay and hearty take care thank you you thank

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