but seriousness how do you bring jobs back to america we'll debate the issue with derek thompson of the atlantic and mike in these times then will study stereotypes in geography turns out that every country thinks differently of each other but we're going to introduce you to one artist who's turned those generalizations into a real maps and i warn you you might find some of your own biases being exposed and almost ten thousand copies of the book operation dark heart of been burned by the pentagon because they say it contains sensitive information about the war in afghanistan but how does the author feel about this shocking move by the d.o.d. well we're going to ask him later in the show also we're going to tell you about a modern day column you hear in the us a recent poll exposed americans desires to live in a country with wealth distribution similar to that of sweden but the word socialism or communism are some of the dirtiest when it comes to america so do americans not quite know what they want or could times be changing our chief correspondent for

your sure there will join us just because that story but now let's move on today's top story. this past month has seen the cia launch twenty drone attacks in pakistan just days ago helicopter air strikes killed more than fifty people and general david petraeus has apparently issued a warning to pakistani commanders that the u.s. could launch ground operations if pakistan refuses to dismantle militant networks in north waziristan to this of course the fact the bob woodward uncovers in his new book a three thousand man paramilitary of local afghans across the border into pakistan when necessary and it's no secret that the u.s. has a presence in this country the pakistanis themselves resent the drone strikes civilian casualties that are caused by them but something seems to be changing for some reason the u.s. presence in pakistan is being more publicly acknowledged so how do we see it does this mean that we're officially at war or earlier on. with colonel lawrence

wilkerson the former chief of staff to colin powell and i asked him just that i think we war in pakistan from the moment we fired the first foreign missile of a predator drone. it's a matter of semantics perhaps but in terms of international law i think in the face of the world we are at war in pakistan and it wasn't a helicopter air strike as i understood it was a raid we put troops on the ground in but if you start claiming the right of pursuit as police. so i think right now this is more of a threat to try and entice or compel pakistan to take more dramatic actually against elements in the fall but i don't see it being something that might not possible you may be in the future in terms of more robust ground operations in there because that is sanctuary and you may recall one time before i told you like vietnam when your enemy has sanctuary there in cambodia and laos here in the fall then your enemy can rest refit we retrain and come back in whistling of course but

it feels like yes we've had operations in pakistan for a while now but it seems like now it's becoming more public perhaps whether the military officials like it or not now in bob woodward's book he says that we have a cia has a three thousand paramilitary operation of afghans that constantly cross over the border too and i'm just wondering if they sure if they're using the word i reserve they're using are they using this this pressure as an excuse perhaps to me now you have intelligence officials saying that they've been getting increasing information and threats that there might be a large scale attack in europe you know how much of this do we believe and how much of it do we just think is an excuse for these operations in pakistan to grow and to become more popular you're asking the person incidentally who went through the lies of the want to the iraq war personally close with george tenet and doctor i'm doing a lot of why and that's what i think he would be if i were. really you know

a lot of credibility in the in the on this intelligence at the same time watching what's developing there watching what's happening and understanding really that was there before in general is the place where the watch of this activity that might be directed against europe is probably taking place i don't discount it as a possibility and even might even go so far as to say a probability now you know another thing that i want to talk about is if pakistan now i mean obviously this is the safe haven what does that say about our war in afghanistan you know i mean we now have this book that's coming out that saying that our president never wanted this war in the first place i made cars i recently i was supposed to give a speech about international literacy day where he broke out into tears and front of people and he was pleading for the taliban to put down their arms he was saying that he doesn't want his son to become a refugee that he wants the violence to stop and the taliban is saying that we want to talk about laying down our arms until the foreign troops the invaders as they see them until they leave so what packer with afghanistan be better off if we did

justly if i think the direct answer to your question is yes and i've thought there for some time now i've had mixed feelings about it for about the last three years but as i've talked to more and more people in the military and in the civilian service working in afghanistan i've come to the conclusion that it is probably better if we leave and if we do so forthwith rather than staying and spending more blood and treasure and possibly exacerbating the situation even worse than it is now what do you do in the aftermath well you do in the aftermath what you do when you've strategically failed in other realms like this you construct some sort of regional understanding you do that through diplomacy and economic power you use the turks you use the indians you use the pakistanis using everyone who has a dog in this fight an interest in the game too after you've left ensure that the worst situation doesn't come about and possibly war. towards

a much better situation in terms of stability and. the u.s. has absolutely no strategic interest in afghanistan it doesn't back east on it doesn't india but in afghanistan as afghanistan affects both those other two countries of course directly or indirectly it has some impact but our presence there is not helping that impact be conducive to our interests at all so whose interests is that as in the interest of perhaps generals i keep referring to this book by bob woodward obama's wars where it seems like the president really was was stuck he wanted a way out of the war and his military advisors weren't giving him one plain and simple quite the opposite they were looking to twenty sixteen and perhaps still having a presence of several thousand has resulted in my children's lifetime exactly he said this isn't a war that you win this is something that just keeps going and going where they're for life i mean is this is this normal i mean they have these military man this is

their job why wouldn't they want this to continue you know but i mean can a president never say no last time i checked the american taxpayer the american citizen was the ultimate power in this argument although they may be apathetic at the moment i think once this economic crisis has gripped this as fully as i think it's going to go up as. david petraeus is going to have to wonder where his money's coming from and to a certain he's going to want to have people recovering from last night at women mary i debated christopher hitchens and one of the points we brought up that was on the middle east situation was he was all for. really pursuing the war as far as it goes in both theaters and then going into iran and i simply asked the audience mostly young people eighteen to twenty two years old which of you is willing to serve. not a single any i'm. sorry that is a strategic element in contemplation of military force do you have the support of the p. people behind you especially if you're

a democracy you can go to war without the support of the people but you're asking for real trouble. i don't think why can't the president say no to them why can't the commander in chief of the armed forces say no and get out of this box that they put him in i think what would reports in that book that much of it is probably specious what is probably accurate are things like the president saying i do not want a trillion dollar war i do not want a ten year war i want out he's going to have to fight the military industrial congressional complex which includes the generals and he's going to have to fight certain other people in interest in this country to do that and it's not an easy battle now he does have a lot of the military on his side because the leadership the senior leadership in the military is not just war weary they understand what it's doing especially to the army in the marine corps they understand the bill that's coming on the witness has been destroyed and so forth and so he's got some allies he's just got this

president is showing his inexperience in a very very glaring way with regard to the middle east peace arab israeli peace attempts the inexperience is glaring and as far as i'm concerned jim jones in the rest of them they bear a lot of response hillary clinton they bear a lot of responsibility for this this looks like amateur hour yeah well i think that's what a lot of people are saying as specially now this book has come out lawrence thank you so much for being here thanks for having me. still to come tonight the saintly google has once again decided what's best for us we'll tell you why they're censoring some words that you might be looking for after publicans blocks of outsourcing go through in the senate says right we're going to look at the outsourcing issue here in the u.s. and ask are sending jobs overseas that a bad thing or is it just a natural part of globalization why have a debate when we come back. the

issue is that so much. a lot of people are curious the next of kin isolated and impoverished north korea is badly needed change all of this happening in a little. while the google or has spoken again and this time it's a weigh in on dirty words now everybody was buzzing with excitement when google announced its latest edition google instant you know it shows you the evolution of your search in a real time well they were excited until they found out that instant would actually block searches for specific words so obvious question was what searches does the

google or consider inappropriate well the day it's finally arrived and our question has been answered and to be honest i'm a little surprised by what made the list so i could just tell you but i could also test you so question number one which one of these words will not be searched by google penis nipples or topless the answer is surprisingly napoles hard question number two which one of these will not be out of searched muslim extremist black power or white power well in that case white power is the answer that's blocked black powers and i mean i'm just not sure how they come up with that and we have one last what is it pamela anderson marijuana or wife beater this considered to inappropriate for google well believe it or not out of these three the former baywatch babe seems to be the most threatening and is thus blocked in the auto search option. seriously you did

a search for wife beaters and you can't look up pamela anderson maybe she's a little trashy but definitely not deserving of google censorship babies are just a few surprisingly blocked searches most of the obvious words relating to scent of the are included as well but really google really i think your instant feature clearly has a few flaws and if i was pam anderson i definitely feel like you were doing some evil to. now in eight fifty three to forty five vote today the senate blocked a new bill that would have punished u.s. firms the export jobs are awarded those who brought them back home and titled the creating american jobs and ending offshoring act would provide payroll tax relief to companies which hire employees domestically during a three year period all beginning on september twenty second and the billion dollar cost of that tax cut all that would have been partially offset by tax increases on the companies that do continue to move their jobs overseas now most of seeing this

as a soley political issue a last ditch effort by the democrats to give the impression that they're doing something about the unemployment rate in america but whether this particular piece of legislation was helpful or not doesn't merica really need to take a serious look at outsourcing is there any other way to bring jobs back to a country where workers simply can't compete with cheaper labor abroad well joining me to discuss that in studio is derek thompson staff editor at the atlantic and michaele labor journalist and contributing editor for in these times gentlemen thank you both for being here now ok it was expected that this bill wasn't going anywhere but i still want to hear from your perspectives why didn't pass we had such a sweet name to it creating american jobs and being offshoring we also name to them that's one thing congress is very good at doing is naming their bill something that sounds very sweet to go back on the issue of outsourcing it's simply natural that a high wage high living standard country is going to outsource jobs that can be done for cheaper cost that just makes sense what this bill did was it tried to

bring some jobs back by centrally saying to employers that they would give them a six point two percent rebate which is the equivalent of the employer side of the social security tax if they brought these jobs back the problem with that eighty percent doesn't sound that bad to me it's also but it's also nothing the reason jobs are going to bangalore isn't because bangalore wages are six point two percent lower than in san jose california the reason is that the magnet orders of a. magnitude less expensive than the workers we have here because we have higher living standards and we're more educated and everything else now mike do you agree with that you disagree in the least a crappy piece of legislation that would have made any change well before i get to that i mean i think it was a bad piece of legislation but let me get to the point that andrew brings up here that's important which is that our jobs are going overseas because of cheap labor china is more competitive only about ten percent of the cost savings come from labor the other thirty to forty percent come from currency manipulation come from government investment come from the fact that they have no environmental laws and

the fact is chinese steel is not as efficient as american steel it takes twelve man hours for every ton of chinese steel produced it takes true in the us the only way the chinese are able to compete are because of the massive subsidies given them through chinese currency manipulation through you know not following environmental laws and through massive subsidies to there's still a mystery but we can't say that they do not have a much much much larger population than we do and that they work for much much much much cheaper than americans do i mean those are just facts regular basis to be fair we're not just outsourcing to china and it's not just going to the states it's outsource there's a new show called out there it's about people going to be i think exactly right i mean and a lot of the jobs even even. within europe let's say a lot of people are talking about how germany is a model for for outsourcing is germany for not outsourcing rather because germany manufactures a lot of products it has a wonderful trade surplus it's doing beautifully it outsources actually a lot of its jobs to other countries inside of europe because it can get that they can get the job done cheaper it's just what companies do but i mean ok this is my

problem is it would be one thing if we were outsourcing jobs that americans didn't meet but at the moment the unemployment rate is almost ten percent at the moment this country has a shortage of skilled workers i mean we bring in engineers from other countries because we don't have people to fill those higher positions so what do you do with all these americans now have i'll timidly just been screwed by globalization but we need to bring. back to american manufacturing in this country we have to take tough steps i think the first thing that we need to do is slap a tariff on high carbon products coming from china you know you can make eighty percent of the world's windmills are made in china yet china doesn't have many environmental laws american companies spend three times as much on environmental safety measures than chinese companies so you have these huge windmills being made in china that are coming over to the u.s. but there's no environmental laws so those are the whole effect if we're going to get serious about rebuilding our economy protect the environment that's the first thing we need to do second thing we need to slap tariffs on chinese currency

manipulation the united states house of representatives is going to vote on this tomorrow and chinese goods are thirty to forty percent cheaper because china you legally manipulates the currency you don't love the currency to flow like every other country does in the world yeah i get we have just been so hesitant to even point that out and admit that they're doing this illegally because well we need china as an ally and you know just globally as there was always a billion dollars of our debt i mean we're talking about a country that is extremely important to the economic preservation of this country and a bit our ability to finance the programs that americans find important on the issue of specifically how do we create jobs i mean there's a thousand answers here but right now i'm right now we're congress can't seem to be able to come up with that in the measures that congress is coming up with for these measures you know that's my question though is do they come up with half measures because they know that they can just put a nice little name on it like bringing jobs back to america and they know this is a bad piece of legislation but it sounds good they can say we'll see we tried you

know or is it do they try half measures just so they can then point at the other guy and say see you didn't support this and make it all about politics not about midterm elections and no one really cares about unemployment i certainly think they do and if you look at what's happening right now we're going to pass a few little tax measures that are barely enforceable that might bring back a few jobs most of the trade experts i talked to before coming on the show today didn't think that this really is going to have much effect that. what they were talking about today but now after the lame duck session we're talking about passing the south koreans free trade agreement now soft korea is a country that has high wages as a country that could buy our goods but south korea in this free trade agreement we wouldn't be able to ship in most of our goods they'd be able to ship everything to us but to other humans we're going to produce if we really want to double our exports you know in the next five years like obama is planning on what is it the we're going to produce they can't be made cheaper somewhere else the fact is i think we need to think beyond manufacturing if you actually look it's a myth that the united states is in manufacturing a thing industrial production production index is actually doubled since the late

one nine hundred seventy s. we're producing a lot of goods but we need a lot fewer people to produce them if we want to create jobs if we want americans to have jobs in the country to flourish again one thing that i think would solve both manufacturing crisis and the employment crisis is to think about corporate taxes and the corporate income tax right now we have a very bizarre system where we have a very high corporate income tax at thirty five percent second highest in the developed world and we have a lot of carve outs to duction and tax credits to make the effective tax rate lower we need to think about a way to sort of rejigger this corporate income tax code so that our companies can be successful abroad but also incentivize to create jobs right here in the u.s. if you think that would work i think it would work but i think the other thing that we need is the president needs to start calling those companies that ship jobs overseas look at g.e. g.e. one of them so that's what they're kind of trying to do you know here in this sense but i feel like no one ever really played like we were saying these are half efforts we'll look at g.e. g.e. in the last ten years in the state of ohio alone shipped out teen lightbulb

factories to china right and we turn around and we can all kind of tax credits to open up advanced battery parts i think we need to see these companies look you're going to ship jobs overseas you know i get money from us well then you're anti-business and no one likes that no republican like that in america. i just feel like you're here like you can't win either way the problem here is that every single country out sources that has them the. every single rich country outsources it just makes business sense to pay as little as you can to get a certain kind of product what we need for that for the future is a lower corporate income tax rate and perhaps incentives to research develop experiment to create jobs more high wage high quality highly skilled jobs we can have right here in the u.s. that we don't want to ship and if we have to wrap it up again so but i mean that also includes you know just educating people so that they can actually fill those jobs because you know you can say that outsourcing every country does it but americans are going to understand when there is no more middle class left in this

country than i can say every country does it and i want to thank you both for being here coming up tonight the tea party has a new scheme and all this time it was obama to. i'll tell you about their plans later in the show and we'll speak with an artist who's created maps based on stereotypes in europe so what comes to mind when americans think of france we're going to tell you in just a moment. every month we give you the future we'll do you understand how we'll get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world join knology update on r g hungry for the full story we've got. the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news makers. how

do people around the world think of each other what stereotypes come into play between the different western and eastern european countries while there is one bold gehring artist living in london who's decided to visualise it by creating a series of maps looking at europe from the perspective of different nationalities of americans italians posh italians the french germans the english vogue ariens and even game that now they've become such an internet sensation and all we have first to admit they are really funny but why would you create maps of stereotypes in the first place or joining me from london to discuss it is graphic designer and illustrator. thanks so much for joining us now you know i guess the start of the basic question mean why did you create these actual maps is it for fun are you trying to make a point or are you trying to be mean to somebody. first of all thanks for inviting me. i am very pleased to be on your show and yes i made.

friends. as a joke. then several blow all over the internet and several newspapers. discovered them and this is so i phoned the people who were interested in such a project so i decided to. make. several more maps and. started why i want to show one of them to the to the audience especially one where you have europe from the point of view of the u.s. and i'm wondering did you speak to any american to help you make the map or do you come up with it on your own you know you have all of eastern europe here is a buffer zone for the commies in russia i mean spain and portugal are just mini versions of mexico and brazil france are all smelly people germany is known for dirty porn and turkey is just

a big thanksgiving meal. that's really funny how is germany dirty porn and why aren't they nazis if the russians are commies. first of all about germany i think i got the idea from south park. which i love and obviously i can't claim the. classic american view but i think it's. germany famous for. their igor and. also i haven't done serious research. i mean i haven't interviewed people i haven't talked with people specifically about. oh all of the labels are my impressions from informal communication with. my friends from all over the world world i have friends in the u.s.

although i never been. to america and also my dear tides the. something the reference from. wealthy or culture. movies. whatever information i can get now i have i have one more question for you you had a number of countries there but then you also made an entire map of you know the way that gay men perceive your eyes so. i had to i had to get some help to get some of these references here today but i guess you know there's live in spain we have a tweak right we have. in switzerland so how come again men get their own entire match what about the way women see year over. one of these movies famous for. the gay culture and also i thought it was

a little bit refreshing to shift from the national and get into another type of dive so i also enter into it many different maps about for example how blonde women. see europe and different european countries so i don't think that become more money and also not that serious because if i focused only on nationals there are people going to take it more seriously when they see the i'm trying to make jokes with the difference other. than they take it. on now i guess you know sometimes the best way to bring people together is to help them laugh with each other at each other. they're definitely definitely very funny maps and everyone can check them out online thank you so much for joining us thank you thank

you. all right still ahead tonight our tool time winner involves a state's nearly bankrupt and it's happy cows war and that we come back and the pentagon has confirmed that they destroyed nearly ten thousand copies of operation dark heart a book they claim and contains sensitive information inside but did the military go overboard in their reaction here i'm going to speak with retired lieutenant colonel anthony shaffer the author of the book to discuss these you in just a few minutes. how

again this is old to the headlong. down russian president flies mosco may you really wish gold telling him to hit the road up to eighteen sometimes when people show yeah they both of europe's largest. form of subsidies are let's talk to turkish a few to let me know i goes about vessel kerry international jewish onto it has been forced to abandon its mission by israeli warships. the local group has visions of the future and show a day shanghai expo twenty turned by the country's most of its the bishop of india and has opened it was written by president dmitry medvedev along with chinese ones president bush and the mounted to be next meeting.

and north korean leader kim jung il has appointed his youngest son and other family members to see their posts in the ring polsky a speculation about the invention of following him intensifies the movie seen as a poet of the one takes that they came to this to into a generation of running a reclusive communist state. of the headlines from all t. and now let's go back to their notice. hungry for the. we've got. the biggest issues get the invoice face to face with the news makers. it's time for tonight's tool time award that we're going to give it to a group of lawmakers from my home state you probably heard the california is in a serious financial crisis the state can't pay its bills lawmakers can't agree on a budget and some state agencies part.