if you can. follow in welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle few leaders in the world polarized opinions more than venezuelan president hugo chavez he is hailed by supporters as a champion of venezuela's for community but he is also denounced by critics as a dictator what does the future hold for chavez and his revolution. can you. discuss venezuela's president and future i'm joined by thor how person in new york he is the founder of the human rights foundation in caracas we go to ever golinger she's a venezuelan american attorney and bestselling author and in washington we crossed then down in hell under he is a professor of political science at webster university and another member of our cross talk team yell on the hunger all right folks cross talk rules in effect

there's a lot of differing opinions on this subject and i've got like to first go to evan caracas in the wake of the parliamentary elections western media gleefully is predicting the demise of what they call the dictator chavez what is your take on the election result and what do you think is going to happen as we move towards the two thousand and twelve presidential election. well i mean there's really no question that the victory here was definitely for the pro chavez united socialist party of the p s u v i mean they won sixty percent of the national assembly the legislature at the same time i think we call it a bittersweet victory because certainly the opposition did regain some of the space that they did used to have in the legislative body but it's not a sufficient bloc to really try to put a brake on the chavez government's policies i mean the international media is trying to portray it as some kind of defeat against chavez or blow to his his

presidency but it's really not and it reaffirmed imagine a political party that's only been in existence for three years and he's going to be eight seats out of one hundred sixty five in the in the legislative body. so it's definitely a clear victory and the chavez bloc will be able to continue to implement the same policies as they have been over the past several years ok so why do you want to jump in there already go right ahead. yeah sure well it's important to know that maybe and all through but she works for the venezuelan government her salary is paid for with funds from the venezuelan government so i think we're going to win because i was. actually in the. first floor of the rio is far more if i could jump in here well if i could jump in here right now ok i don't want someone to change somebody's character on the panel ok i asked you for how do you respond to that you turn french i think it's not it's not

a fact it is germane to the question so what do you think of the election only what do you. really mean is way low can we what is what do you think of the electorate you know miss mary so you know we had to push. for opposition candidates and the reality is that fifty two percent were cast. poorly opposition that is not a victory for chavez it's only a bit with those who get paid to spin for child abuse so i don't work with the chinese government i don't for any other government that's the difference ok if i could go to you daniel i mean there's a there's a lot of criticism of the united states around the world of sending enormous amounts of money to get the election outcome they want in venezuela. i'm thinking of maybe. other american organizations i mean what has that had any impact because it seems like you they want to get a certain outcome and it's very visible these very easy to find this information

that's all publicly known. is you know is the united states happy make my question real sort about the election outcome you think. ok we're going to take the second part probably on the whole the u.s. probably is happy with the results i'm sure they would have hoped the opposition would have got a majority in reality there's about a small segment of the vote that went to a political party that cannot be characterized there is opposition or pro-government you subtract that from the fifty two percent or was referring to when in fact it was a narrow popular vote victory for the p.s.u. but a narrow one and i do think that in some ways that's a setback because i think it would have liked to have gotten a much more solid majority would have liked to have seen the p.s.u. of his political party have delivered a more solid block of votes in favor of his what he wants to do terms of the outcome in terms of the number of seats it's a victory for the p.s.u.

. you want to jump in there. so day in day out in the minds of the other two guests votes for parties that are not with our votes for charlie's that's absurd and with regard to your comment about united states funds going to venezuela the truth of the matter and your viewers should know this is that the government of venezuela uses state funds state funds are used to fund the party of chinese yet state funds are not used to fund any other party that is not democracy you have david and goliath situation and besides this you have to remember you have to remember besides the fact that you have in venezuela the shut down of media that opposes the government you have harassment of anyone persecution. if you stand against that you get persecuted and i think your point you got your point never go right ahead that's not true. yet you jump in here before in finding foreign funding

and there is certainly millions and millions of u.s. taxpayer dollars are funding political organizations parties and campaigns here there is clear and direct funding to the opposition campaign from u.s. agencies and other international agencies and it's a violation of the. law i mean you could say maybe the government invested some funds into their own party for this campaign but that does not justify opposition groups receiving foreign funding in violation of the law and of course u.s. agency while reading venice there is a call to interpretation. actually excuse me there is no going to be here and i want to remember. now what i was. you can finish your point and then. what i was saying. yeah i'd like to finish there are no no media outlets here shut down i live in caracas i watch the television i watch all the different stations you can get fox news here so i mean certainly there is a there is an. evil there is no this is this is huge and

there is no persecution of anybody. there were two. actually true excuse me they were there were two prisoners. they ran. the. prisoners run one one that's not true two prisoners actually won the elections in certain districts and they ran on the opposition this is now the real unity because numbers of venezuela's parliament so i mean we're talking about i mean what country in the world allows for prisoners to be put on a legislative ballot and then to win the election and then be released from prison because now they're getting some kind of a parliamentary immunity. jumping . forward. centrally what i would i would

argue is. a good job of documenting the flow of money somewhere between thirty five forty million dollars you don't have to necessarily. you can go to the stores that are any sites to say the floor you said that before just. like the i would like daniel thank you i mean this is what you'll continue his point daniel it's not daniel go ahead anyway if you want to sort of check up on her read her book go to the sources and go to the go go and you'll see the amount of funding that's got from natural number of democracy officer transition the system so i think she's right when she points to the amount of money that the united states has funneled into what are primarily opposition organizations now also say that in many ways campaigning in venezuela the media is highly polarized listeners and viewers can check for themselves if they go to the various sites of the venezuelan media i think you'll see that there's a very vigorous debate and that there's

a tremendous amount of opposition to the opposition virtually has most of the private media state government uses the state government uses the state television network to get its point of view of gross there's a pretty vigorous and lively debate that goes on in venezuela now. and so so it's kind of an exaggeration to say the least to say that everybody should know viewpoint as well as persecuted go ahead to our jump in. ok let's begin with the fact that the person that's coming in from venezuela ever go injure states that media is free in venezuela is that the reason why channel two which included amnesty international human rights watch governments around the world the european parliament all of them saying please don't shut this down mr chavez because you're critical they shut it down below what we see on the only remaining private channel that is critical of the government the only one remaining both of

the owners have been exiled they've both been persecuted in what is it is an injustice that anyone who looks into it can see the truth the truth is that what china is does not permit does. sent he does not permit dissent which is why people who disagree with them end up in jail there have been people jailed for comments they've made on television shows just like this one so if you make a comment that mr chavez and his government does not like they will go after you they are pursuing what they have called on the record communicational gemini that's what they want because they know that if they communicate and they control the airwaves beyond which i was does daily when he grabs them for six seven or even a day very little interest is every minute no no no i want to finish ok thank you please go ahead make it to your point if it says oh you even get fox news here but this is extraordinary manipulation she has satellite television she has cable because she has the money over the venezuelan government she works for them does

not disclose worst sources come from her newspaper is i don't know what ok go are over there running out of time and she is going to be very sure of this before we go to break the respond before we go to break we were going for it before yes. first of all. everyone who takes that radical extreme position against the chavez government claims that anyone who has a different position receives funding from the chavez i'm sorry st i'm not i'm not against jerry is not. an eight excuse me i am not a paid agent of the venezuelan government i am an independent attorney from new york city has been doing it impairs your research for years on the us intervention i blame my clients for you and i enjoy my books and i write hope you excuse me for excuse me. in any case after a shortage of go after a short break we will continue our discussion on venezuela's pocket stay with our team.

hungry for the full story we've gone to. the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news maker. nineteen thirty eight england and france tried to reason with hitler's germany demands a dozen land and gets its way they all thought they had created

a safety net for themselves nineteen thirty nine the whole of europe is an adult and war efforts to establish a system of collective security in one hundred thirty eight failed and it's still on the agenda. the lesson was to be learned from the munich agreement on r t. and if you. want to. welcome back i'm carol go to remind you we're discussing venezuela's political battles. but before let's see what russians think about the venezuelan president. president of venezuela hugo chavez suffers his worst said back at the ballot box since taking office in one thousand and nine his united to socialist party lost the two thirds

majority needed to push through legislation without consulting the position however it was still a performance that any party would have been called of giving the whole for twelve years the public opinion and also russians what impression the head book charges russians will have seen in his media appearances almost five times more likely to be positively impressed the major question to do a portrait of us is the two thousand and twelve presidential election as recent results show that many of his supporters did not cos they have votes. ok to go to you maybe slightly change the subject here why in your opinion and you go back and forth between when israel and the united states what is the obsession the united states has with chavez ok i mean what threat does mr job as. opposed to the united states it's not its military obviously but it certainly has

a lot of oil is that it. i mean there are really three major issues one of course is oil venezuela has the largest oil reserves of any country in the world in one country obviously the u.s. has immense energy consumption needs so having oil in the hands are being controlled and. the government of someone like google chavez is not convenient to u.s. interests the other issue is that typically here over the twentieth century most of the governments were aligned with u.s. interests and with multinationals all of that is change under the charges government this is a government that's poking more and focusing more on national development and you know national investment and regional investment as well and integration and then looking for ways to go beyond the u.s. it's only major trading partner and reaching out. countries like russia and china and iran and a whole other diversity of different nations that have these relations with venezuela and then of course i mean there is the ideological factor although it

can't be considered the number one factor in terms of the u.s. viewing venice as a threat but certainly when you have in the twenty first century someone is talking about socialism after you know the u.s. spent the entire twentieth century trying to wipe out anything that smelled of socialism or communism you know and here it is again right and right south of the u.s. border and in this country with all this oil and with this individual has this immense influence over this region i mean the u.s. does see it as a threat and so they're trying to make all these links with venezuela to terrorism and drug trafficking and calling it a failed state in an attempt to justify the this aggression and this constant funding of movements to undermine venis well as democracy. and then we go to for researching this program i came across the fact that the french state is more socialized is far is people working for the government in g.d.p.

then venezuela is but we constantly hear this this diatribe against this is you know socialism this is marxist leninism and the number of times i looked at google this morning the marxist dictator of venezuela i mean it's not very marxist in a broader scheme of things is it. well. pronounced himself in favor what he calls socialist socialism of the twenty first century now that's rather vague and all of the fine but remember again this is an oil countries the economy the most important factor in the economy is the state oil company and the revenues that are generated by oil costs about twelve dollars a barrel of produce oil as well so when the price of oil price of oil now was about seventy dollars so even with a. few years ago so a lot of money coming into the state government so there's a question. how those two get allocated whether it's allocated democratically how much popular influence there is so we're talking about socialism in venezuela in my view socialism is about exactly you know who controls the super profits that come

from oil exports whether they're going to be used for human benefit where they're going to be where they're going to be invested whether or not corruption can be cleaned up or whether or not some people getting too wealthy so i mean that's kind of and i can tell you that i heard that about sixty percent of them as well and basically say they're in agreement with socialism and about half of them on agreement with child as in this ideal socialism of the twenty first century but the other thirty the other half of that sixty percent so about thirty percent of that is well it's kind of a kind of vague notion of socialism in which basically because sort of something like social democracy in europe ok but if i can go to you i mean the united states constantly and listen western media and even get from on high government officials to putting on the administration. using the words like dictator or strongman or certainly a disparaging term for the venezuelan president but on the other hand the united states has lots of friends in the world that really truly are dictators but they're

not demonized in western media they're just not talked about because there are the united states go ahead sure well responding. brought up the word communism with regard to talking about. and i think your viewers will well remember eighty years of communism and what they did for russia and they will remember what actually it meant in terms of political prisons in terms of the standard of living venezuela has ranks very very low on transparency international one hundred sixty to one hundred eighty with regard to corruption twelve years of chinese give us levels of corruption the same as in the congo and the same of angola if you look at inflation in venezuela inflation is highest in venezuela than in any other nation in this hemisphere in the americas so that should give you an idea with regard to the allocation of them. any now all the bluster about chavez versus the united states the truth remains that the number one client of ways with regard to oil is the

united states and what they do with the money most of it goes to his brothers his family and the cronies in his government so that's something to remember and very important to remember the levels of corruption in venezuela are stratospheric why the united i'm sorry i let you finish now you're going to let me finish there were a lot of things that you said were not true i let you finish with regard to race and why the united states and europe i may add has a problem with is because it has undeniably been financing the fark terrorist organization in colombia an organization that according to the european union is considered a terrorist organization so much so the gyrus himself has had a minute of silence for the death of the fark leaders venezuelan weaponry ends up in far can is the swedish government actually had a problem with venezuela and made this very public when venezuelan missiles when venezuela was sold missiles by sweden by saab and those ended up in the hands of the terrorists so that gives you an idea of why the united states has been trying

to with regard to your comment peter about i'm sorry with regard to your comment peter peter and i don't want to comment about being a dictator and i'm sorry ever i let you finish a bit and i gave. you was a time let's keep it a portion if. you want to. three of you seem to have peter peter i just think how a sense is about as a three of you have a very strong one so i'd like to finish ok one more job this is undeniably a man who acts like a strongman he has an electoral dictator that means he allows elections meanwhile he puts a stranglehold on freedom of speech puts in prisons those who disagree with him and with regard to the next elections the number one candidate in that has outpolled him over and over again. a former mayor actually is disqualified. with four hundred other people from running for the next election so one has to put that into context and think i just act like a dictator if you look at how he refers to the media how you were first of those

who oppose him as the stakes as reward for your stairs using you send this message are you sure you really are so over go ahead because we're running. again because all three of you. i mean sure would you please let someone else have a word. go ahead please go. i'm not it's really. unfortunate that you cared so much space to such an individual who really has absolutely zero credibility and nevertheless i think it's important to point out that many of the state his allegations like the person just speaking are based on nothing and nothing factual whatsoever hence the personal attacks constantly and in an area where we're listening session we are listening to everything at this moment in time go ahead. yes the allegations in general against charges and in terms of him being

a dictator and and that there is some kind of situation going on here in the country that merits or could be considered as a threat is used as a justification i mean again i think we have to go back to the base of the matter here which is which is the oil i mean there's there's really no question about it and then of course i mean who chavez as a person has a very strong personality and that comes across in international media as being a strong man but i can tell you as someone who's lived here on and off for over seventeen years this is one of the most thriving democracies i've ever seen the level of participation and it was proven in these last elections where the over sixty seven percent of voters came out to participate in legislative elections which was a historic amount of voter participation in venezuela it was also around the world are going to be really were. you know. we haven't had a lot from daniel here. my dad daniel about the nature of democracy in venezuela ok

latin america and america one of the changing one of the americas i enjoyed going to some to some extent to go child as is an outspoken person against this kind of wave of neo liberalism pro market democracy i'll put that in quotes almost around the world and that's one reason that the united states doesn't like him but you know we can put too much emphasis on who go child as latin america is changing itself countries are trading with different parts of the world the latin americans are forming their own security organizations apart from the united states who go charges is as much a product of these kinds of changes as he is as a leader of those kinds of changes now in regard to things like the fark i was down in venezuela few months ago i talk to opposition figures i talk to opposition newspapers talk to people i tell you a little petkoff most people don't really believe in that as well even in the opposition i think that the government is directly into funding it or should now it's a very simple as this interpol and i read these articles not already interviewers

are being misled peter says this is. being misled into any way i want. to welcome to the end of the program that we've come to the end of the program i knew this was going to be a polarized debate many thanks to my guests today in new york caracas and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk.

the. if you move. from phones to.

stocks on t.v. don't. afghanistan's opium harvest to falls by around a half due to a poppy blight disease devastating the crop but the shortage sends drug prices soaring. pakistan has blocked a vital supply route for u.s. led coalition forces into afghanistan after a cross border nato air strike is blamed for the deaths of three pakistani soldiers . chaos in ecuador where a state of emergency has been declared after protests by police and soldiers over budget cuts sparked widespread violence and unrest president rafael correa earlier in a gas attack has been freed under a hail of gunfire from a hospital where he was trapped by rebel police. next the alyona show looking at america's latest iranian blacklist.

well convey a lot of show we'll get the real headlines with none of the mersey are coming live to washington d.c. now today we're going to discuss new sanctions that the u.s. has imposed on iran these sanctions go after eight aronian officials for human rights violations but why is the us concentrating on just these eight do we pick and choose which human right offenders to condemn while turning a blind eye to those who we have vested business interests with jager from the young turks as fired up about this issue and he'll join us to talk about it that the u.s. is also looking to create trade sanctions with china or manipulation of currency lawmakers have tied the currency problems to a serious unemployment problem right here in the u.s. and as you can imagine china isn't too happy about what discussed the potential currency war with biz.