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nineteen forty five don't. get out there it's time for the headlines now arundhati the presidential election in one of the world's fastest emerging powers heads for a second round brazil's ruling party candidate and people favorites in the mail to secure the fifty percent needed victory. president goes online to condemn recent anti russian rhetoric. in his latest video message the russian leader stresses that the unfounded accusations must not affect the nations between the two make. britain is becoming increasingly dissatisfied bearing influence that's according to the freedoms that largest event on the fringe of the

conservative party. brings you up to date on the debate crosstalk people discuss why the palestinian israeli peace talks of grant or course just a month after restarting that's if you let's stay with us. every month we give you the future we help you understand how we'll get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world join a technology update on our jeep. and you can. follow in welcome to cross talk i'm peter a little unsettling settlements israel is again building settlements for jews only

in the occupied west bank putting any kind of peace process with the palestinians in serious doubt is this round of negotiations a dead letter if so what could be the consequences. and you can. discuss the resumption of settlement building i'm joined by eve horo in jerusalem she's a spokesperson from the national council in tel aviv we go to get ian levy columnist and author of the recent book the punishment of gaza and in washington we crossed agave mari he is the advocate director at the american task force on palestine and another member of our cross-talk team on the hunger all right folks cross talk rules in effect that you can jump in anytime you want i'd like to go to get in first. in tel aviv gideon where is the so-called peace process that we keep hearing about stand right now that there's been the resumption of building of

settlements in the west bank the palestinians are hesitating and it looks like they may walk away from these talks so where do we go from there. we don't go anywhere unfortunately we are totally stuck it was very clear from the very beginning that those talks a very different charms i guess they will find a way out of the current crisis but anyone who expects really peace coming out of this scene in this mess kerry is going to be deeply disappointed that the parties are not ready for the void these really prime minister benjamin it's and you know if he's not capable not willing even to freeze the settlements how will he go through the two state solution which he declared he's going to so i really i think one should really be realistic enough to believe in miracles you know the thing that something can come out of it ok even if i could go to you in jerusalem and you

represent the settlers in the west bank i mean a lot of people kind of ask the obvious question is what what's the second stage what's the palestinian state if more and more settlers are moving to the occupied west bank how can there be a second state but i think there's a misconception in that the that the settlements are the reason that we don't have peace the reason that we don't have peace is because abbas and the palestinians don't want peace he got tremendously generous offers both from iraq and from men who don't work like they were in office and he still turned them down and so it's clear that that the reason we're jews built their homes is not to reason that we don't have peace abbas now has everything he could wind he's got the israeli army chasing down the hamas terrorists who are his political rivals he doesn't want the i.d.f. to leave today in some area because he then he will lose it to come out as he leaves guys and i ask the question again time to do a repeat internationally and when it is the second stage going to be if if jews are

living in settlements only for jews on the west bank where is the second part where is the second state where is the palestinian state fit in to all of this. it's not talk about the past and talk about the present in the future should be to see. hundred percent but it's the prime minister who's talked about the two states between the jordan river and the mediterranean i don't ascribe to that notion ok the british mandate for palestine was already divided the country of jordan is three quarters of it most of their population are still called palestinians a palestinian state already exists and just because jordan is loath to take in their own people doesn't mean that israel should harm their own security and throw jews off their land in order to accommodate a palestinian state that will very clearly also be a tremendous threat to israel's security as we've already seen in gaza you could get a fine go to you in washington eve says there already is a palestinian state the palestinians living in their occupied west bank and gaza probably don't believe that. not only the palestinians living in the west bank and

gaza i think this is i mean i think even using old speak right now there's an international consensus including in israel itself including the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu who talks about a two state solution ultimately we can all come up with slogans and all of these pie in the sky kind of concepts that reality is there's a no no to solution in you know in historic palestine then what we're going to see is continuation of conflict continuation of not only localized conflict but possibly regional conflict and i would beg to differ with. eve on that major point about doesn't have what he wants then that the day if there is no palestinian state there is no realisation of that but i said a national aspirations in terms of security it's not the i.d.f. who is dealing with security in the west bank it is the new to constitute but i see it in security forces and it's very interesting with after the terrorist attacks that happened in hebron a few weeks ago the i.d.f. itself the i.d.f.

there is no command there has actually stepped back from region and a lot of the palestinian security forces to move on ultimately we can sit here and talk about all of these ideas and all of this finger pointing all of the blame and what is going. it's going to be this this is going to do this to more conflict and more violence there is one way to end this and one way only negotiate a two state solution between the two parties and i actually would signal with gideon here a little bit or have a different take and i would say i do have hope that this is this is going to move forward we have israeli prime minister who expressed desire towards progress we have an american president who is very willing to put us in a president with whom i worked in the past who i know is very deeply committed to this excuse me because you're going to be but you're also disingenious lee skipped the point now you've also completely not related to my point that apparently the leadership of the palestinian authority be our fight on have many times been offered supposedly what they want and haven't accepted it and so you know where are we with that the fact that people believe the jews don't belong in judea is the

result of ethnic cleansing jews were ethnically cleansed from these places in one nine hundred forty eight when jordan then occupied these places now jordan to get didn't go and create a palestinian state fascinating ok the p.l.o. charter of one nine hundred sixty four the talks about liberating land isn't when israel controls these areas so there's a really big question mark here over it with the idea is to rid these areas of jews or create a palestinian state ok if you don't want your own state they've been offered a quite a few times well get in when we go back to what everyone should agree upon and that is international law ok everybody can say their interpretation of history where jews belong where they don't belong where they might belong you know let's go to what we should all agree on into our national law our resolution two for two now that should be a reference point for everyone in these negotiations but it seems not to be the case. you know it's not only about two full two it's about basic international law

but for people like eve the international law is looks nothing else about anti semitism and according to the international law all the settlements but all the settlements are criminals i criminalize let me finish let me finish i didn't disappear that is only a center of gravity not a word yet even i live it eve you had your chance to speak with gideon his chance to speak gideon continue to continue if not years settlers settlers have problem settlers have problems tolerance aggressive people or is aggressive people but anyhow the settlements a criminal a violation of the international law in the start there but according to israel israel has its own international law and these all explanation you will hear all kinds of explanation including we just heard about ethnic cleansing i guess that he's rarely would be there to speak about ethnic cleansing after what we have done in forty eight i mean really there are no limits for anything israelis think about

ethnic cleansing kicking away six hundred thousand palestinians who live to then to a few jury camps yeah but this settler beneath them serve their own world they are totally disconnected was reality they are they came only too late to be an alps the code for any settlement and i held office success they did anything possible they we do everything possible and we us it was them we dose israelis who would like who would like to live in a just cause a society in the society we are stuck with this obstacle ok if you want to reply to that. yes i absolutely do when israel was created in one nine hundred forty eight all the people in israel jews and arabs as well all became citizens of the state however you didn't find any jews living in what the arabs conquered because as i said and i will stand by that they had ethnically cleanse the jews out which is why

people now say that we don't belong in these places i'm very sorry that you don't has this tremendous hate for hatred for settlers it's very unfortunate we are some of the most law abiding people in the state as the mother of seven nobody can tell me that i don't want there to be peace we moved into these areas because after the one nine hundred sixty seven war that was started against israel and that israel won israel offered to exchange all the lands before any jew had moved in exchange all of it for peace and were turned down by the arab world's notice he said no to regulation and. if they don't want it then we certainly do want it and we have made these thriving areas we've given the palestinians living their jobs and as a matter of fact my own father is a palestinian because before nine hundred forty eight the jews were the ones who were known as the palestinians and then israel which created and as i said both jews and arabs within israel became israelis and those refugee camps that were mentioned every single one of them without exception was started by arabs for arabs and are maintained by arabs and they have kept their people in disgusting

conditions as a p.r. project against israel and that i think it's really what i did and i forgot to say they're going to change course i break i'm going to get out there people go ahead going to washington going i mean i will make three quick points one is look i mean i personally i think most of them if they knew the ship does not deny the jewish connection to the land and it's unfortunate that we have someone like evil then i get busted in connection to the land but it's not about the connection to the land right now it's about connecting states and looking at the future look i mean even view of history is one that i agree with and i believe actually more serious historians would disagree with this is a virtue and create the history but ultimately it doesn't matter what the matter as far as i'm concerned is. how do you move to the future we can sit and debate the history over and over there you know if it were not reach an agreement everyone has their own narrative the question is what can the future do want to today what we see in the occupied territories is not as if tribes to show like you know a paradise of everyone's having jobs and everyone's having

a great life what we're seeing right now is an occupation and frankly any ok patient no matter how you are going to. you know a spinet is unsustainable i don't accept it as a set of affairs let's stop scoring points to stop looking at history and creating our own version of history let's look at the future how can we get to a situation where everyone's going to have to make compromises and ultimate enough together all right after a short break we'll continue our discussion on israeli settlements on the west bank stay with r.t. . if you. want to. show biz that entertainment value of insult trade to present high production

success grassing see. all of this is a way of trying to solve this people's attention by using techniques that are sensitive to come out during this war we had nearly military entertainment. weekly. more news today. flared up look. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. operations are. plenty.

of the in. the lead up to. the. welcome back to talk time peter lavelle remind you we're talking about the israeli palestinian conflict. mum and. sister sledge but before let's see what russians think about this issue. construction in progress after a ten month official freeze bulldozers are working again across the west bank analysts around the world this may render stillborn their wish simply revive dialog between israel and palestinians recently about a set of poll last russians which side of the israeli palestinian conflict they sympathize with sixty four percent of the respondents did not take

a side fourteen percent expressed sympathy to palestinians and just nine percent to israel despite the resumption of settlement building there israel the palestinian peace process remains just that in progress back to peter ok getting there if i can go to you considering the settlements continue to be built in the west bank and there seems to be absolutely no political will in israel to stop it it will just continue what are the possibilities in your mind of just creating de facto a one state solution i mean because it seems it's going in that direction and what rights the palestinians would have in that one state. let's face reality we have already one state solution the occupation is part and parcel of israel over forty years the fact that it's an apartheid state the fake that

there are two communities one was civil rights and the other one was no civil rights whatsoever does not make any change to show the word for say than to say we had them okra see and to keep this. this is now for the last forty two years and for sure if it were legal to be a two state solution it would be a one state solution but then there would become very rightly so and say ok you remain in your settlements don't say it any said just give civil rights to the palestinians all did to say that the palestinians are not human beings like you and they don't deserve the same rights but to this even is that we'll be able to react but with the meats that either we either mow crecy and then he spoke all its citizens or it is an apartheid state and then his eye will be treated as an apartheid state sure ok even an apartheid state that claims to be a democracy. israel is a democracy it's nowhere near an apartheid state and what hasn't been mentioned

fascinatingly so in the show up to now is the terrorism is that when israel in ninety three signed the oslo accords and we gave the palestinian police force the guns because you know as they do today they say they run around and they do their thing what we got in return were years and years of terrorism jews being blown up jews and arabs everybody being blown up in coffee shops on buses we left gaza we threw ten thousand jews out of their homes we transferred ten thousand jews not arabs but jews and destroyed their communities and what we got in return was this terrorist state just south of tel aviv there not just threatens israel but it's apparently become a base for chris paul al-qaeda and all the joyful people in the world and so israelis aren't stupid and israelis more than anybody want to live in peace but we also understand we've put our hand to peace and yet we see textbooks that the little palestinian children are learning from they talk about one day replacing israel with palestine they talk about terrible things that their judaism and all kinds of incitement when streets are named after terrorists in the palestinian

authority than most israelis start thinking to themselves forget it i mean we have reached out our hands we're looking for peace and these are the peace camp the left wing camp they get a levy represents has gotten smaller and smaller over the years than people in his own camp have told him and i hear for myself unfortunately today that he actually aids and abets are enemies and so they're getting desperate it's very sad but most israelis who do not live where i live agree with what i say because they see that all our attempts at our overtures towards peace have been met with violence because ultimately the palestinians along with most of our neighbors don't want to live here in peace they want to destroy israel and israelis are not suicidal and we're not going to let that happen. i mean i really urge eve to go and updated information and she's really talking from the language of the eighty's things i've done most up to date looks i have i'm a senator and there's a way they have been updated and more importantly no important thing i would say if you look at i have not interrupted you please let me continue. if you look at

israeli public opinion you will see that the majority of israelis actually do want to state solution a majority of israelis accept a solution that is based on the vision of the land between two states i think what a visitor but i think is unfortunately inaccurate even in her own read of the israeli political system ultimately look i mean if you use the you referred to the oslo agreement and terrorism of course there were terrorism there were many many mistakes in the was the period i hope that we have learned from them i know the palestinians have learned and them by creating this new leader constituted. the security forces that do that are completely by israeli security officials the admission are doing an amazing job in terms of called terrorism at the end of the day i want to go exactly what i was before there is a chance for peace you know i was in camp david i was in all these negotiations. there was never a full deal that was put there but we got close and we're getting closer by the day we know what the solution is and again if we have an israeli right wing prime

minister who is saying the only way forward is a two state solution i think that's horrible where we have to move if this collapses of who says collapses we're not going to move into this you know love. everyone's living together in peace and harmony one state division we're going to move into chaos we're going to move into violence we're going to move into a region of destabilisation so i really urge all of us who have a kid who care about the future of our kids and our kids' kids to look at how can we create a sustainable future for them and not keep on living the old enmities that we suffered from this is all of our lives viewers and maybe our politicians ok getting if i can go to you i'm netanyahu says he believes in a two state solution. though that second stage the palestinian state would have to be demilitarized but that doesn't sound like what lieberman is saying what kind of future he's looking for i mean here's a man a foreign minister in the government that is says it's a negotiation serious negotiations and he goes to the united nations and just says it's a farce that we're these talks are going to go nowhere i mean what kind of message

is that sending to the world i mean it's it really is a farce isn't it it's just creating creating facts on the ground running out the clock creating facts on the ground. it is a farce and i must tell you i appreciate much more of a goalie of a man who say this rules rather than because i mean it and yeah will try to fool the whole world himself and. there is no connection between what the tonio say and what they thought i would does and we should judge him only about his deeds and what about his the career he's the only to please washington to make peace between israel and washington but this is not the issue he's only way to be judged is to shake the bulldozers the ego in the ground and the bulldozers had started again to build new settlements which means that he didn't mean for a second but even though for

a second to go for the two state solution he meant to continue to for the woods he meant to continue to fool the united states and finally the bluff was called by by his foreign minister will just say the troops we are right to link the nation a list of a mystic government we have no intentions to do any peace was the palestinians ok eve you want to reply to that because that's what a great deal of the pain was forgetting go ahead go ahead but is anyone forgetting that there were there was a ten month free were not a thing moved and our boss didn't come forward until about two weeks before it expired and only when obama twisted his arm so you know i think i think b.b. has shown and i'm not thrilled with everything that he does but i think he has shown he definitely a willingness and it didn't happen so well you know what are we supposed to do with that you can't keep saying that it's about the settlements and it's about the settlements and ignoring all the issues that i have various now about the terrorism

have just been completely ignored they did hills of duty in some area overlook tel aviv and easily if that becomes a base for a palestinian state alan gaza all of the promise that we have now in lebanon where we virtually have iran in our northern border via the crucible. israel cannot afford to have another terrorist state and our narrow waist the whole business is like forty miles of white ok but nobody everyone just giving is platitudes about look towards tomorrow have the palestinians change to they want to live with israel in peace because no israeli is seeing that and i think given the track record of the last twenty years the burden of proof is now on them or we don't want to live through that period again where some of us didn't live through it and i've been to more funerals than i ever should have been in my entire life over what went on during those years and continues to go on would still go on if the i.d.f. wasn't stopping it and so you know and actually there isn't even an occupation anymore by the way all right ninety percent over ninety percent of the arabs in judea and samaria live under the palestinian authority rule gay said it himself

that there's a palestinian authority policeman running around so what is it that you know everyone dances about these words on the one hand they say we commit genocide on the other hand they say there's a tremendous demographic problem and we have to give up land otherwise the arabs will overwhelm us and we won't be democratic well for committing genocide then how come there's so many arabs and we have to give up land and i think it really it's you know the world audience is not that stupid and if things are pointed out that they will understand they will get it one lie is just bandied about after the other and it's really just a shame but israelis as i said israelis choose life israelis are creative we're doing wonderful things and we we will continue to do so and keep reaching out our hand for peace but with the proviso ok ok. we're not going to only be a peace that israel defines again if i go to you in washington they hold a lot of the karma just. who do the israeli guys with their american friends the course here have a look i mean first of all just just to complete the fact that he said most of the

palestinians live on the palestinian authority but in a very very small amount of land only in the urban areas that they cannot enter and leave without israeli permission so let's not give half truths look this is community concerns that even mentioned and they are ones that have to be dealt with in an agreement and we all know they're going to be no peace the unless security is dealt with but frankly i druther on the security issues believe israeli generals and i would any other civilian on this matter and they say that there has been amazing strides in terms of security performance at the end of the day if he's doing is going to be difficult for everyone and that's why we need a third party the u.s. that will come to george sometimes pressure sometimes award but push the size towards what everyone knows is in there in their interest ultimately no one can force a bass or netanyahu to give up their basic national rights and their basic positions but we do need a third party that i could states and that have been mistakes committed in the way

that the u.s. has approached things but ultimately we see a real push from the americans we see cooperation from netanyahu and i don't care what the neighbors intentions are and i wasn't going to have a job anyway of running out of time i'm afraid i don't think the americans are a good third party in all of this after the last thirty years many thanks my guest today in jerusalem tel aviv in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching a few darkie see you next time and remember ross talking.