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one of. those. on our. morning news today violence is once again fled up to for these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china operations are offered

a. look. top stories tonight a close call for brazil's two presidential favorites as the race the leader of the world's fastest growing economies is forced into a runoff. while britain's leading coalition party gets together to talk money troubles the conference fringe sounds the alarm over a loss of civil rights and the domineering e.u. . and accord in thailand rejects america's called drop the charges against suspected russian arms dealer victor boot which again stalls u.s. extradition to the sea. coming up next tonight it's artie's cross-talk people develop his gas lock horns over why the palestinian israeli peace talks of ground will hold just a month after restarting across talks with the less than half a minute from now.

every month we give you the future we help you understand how we'll get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world join a technology update on our jeep. and you can. follow in the welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle unsettling settlements israel is again building settlements for jews only in the occupied west bank putting any kind of peace process with the palestinians in serious doubt is this round of negotiations a dead letter if so what could be the consequences. and you can.

discuss the resumption of settlement building i'm joined by eve horo in jerusalem she's a spokesperson from the national council in tel aviv we go to get ian levy columnist and author of the recent book the punishment of gaza and in washington we crossed agave mari he is the advocacy director at the american task force on palestine and another member of our cross-talk team in the hunger all right folks cross talk rules in effect that you can jump in anytime you want i'd like to go to get in first in tel aviv gideon where is the so-called peace process that we keep hearing about stand right now that there's been the resumption of building of settlements in the west bank and the palestinians are hesitating and it looks like they may walk away from these talks so where do we go from there. we don't go anywhere unfortunately we are totally stuck it was very clear from the very

beginning the ghost talks have very different charms i guess they will find a way out of the current crisis but anyone who expects really peace coming out of this scene in this mess kerry is going to be deeply disappointed the parties and it's ready for the above all these really prime minister benjamin it and you know if he's not capable not willing even to freeze the settlements how will he go through the two state solution which he declared he's going to seoul i am really one should really be realistic enough to believe in miracles you know that will think that something can come out of it ok even if i could go to you in jerusalem and you represent the settlers in the west bank i mean a lot of people kind of ask the obvious question is what what's the second state what's the palestinian state if more and more settlers are moving to the occupied

west bank how can there be a second state but i think there's a misconception in that the that the settlements are the reason that we don't have peace the reason that we don't have peace is because abbas and the palestinians don't want peace he got tremendously generous offers both from iraq and from men who don't work like they were in office and he still turned them down and so it's clear that that the reason we're jews built their homes is not to reason that we don't have peace about us now has everything he could live he's got the israeli army chasing down the hamas terrorists who are his political rivals he doesn't want the i.d.f. to leave today in some area because he then he will lose it to come out ok as he leaves guys and i ask the question again turns into a repeat internationally and when it is the second stage going to be if if jews are living in settlements only for jews on the west bank where is the second power where is the second state where is the palestinian state fit in to all of this. it's not talk about the past and talk about the present in the future should be to

see. hundred percent but it's the prime minister who's talked about the two states between the jordan river and the mediterranean i don't ascribe to that notion ok the british mandate for palestine was already divided the country of jordan is three quarters of it most of their population are still called palestinians a palestinian state already exists and just because jordan is loath to take in their own people doesn't mean that israel should harm their own security and throw jews off their land in order to accommodate a palestinian state that will very clearly also be a tremendous threat to israel's security as we've already seen in canada you could give an go to you in washington eve says there already is a palestinian state the palestinians living in their occupied west bank and gaza probably don't believe that. not only the palestinians living in the west bank and gaza i think this is i mean i think even using old speak right now there's an international consensus including in israel itself including the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu who talks about

a two state solution ultimately we can all come up with slogans and all of these point in the sky kind of concepts that reality is there is a no no to a solution in the you know in historic palestine then what we're going to see is continuation of conflict continuation of not only localized conflict but possibly regional conflict and i would beg to differ with. eve on make your point about doesn't have what he wants then that the day if there is no palestinian state there is no realisation of that but i see the national aspirations in terms of security it's not the i.d.f. who is dealing with security in the west bank it is the new constitute by the sin and security forces and it's very interesting without the terrorist attacks that happened in hebron a few weeks ago the i.d.f. itself the i.d.f. there is no commander has actually stepped back from that region and allowed the palestinian security forces to move on ultimately we can sit here and talk about all of these ideas and all of this finger pointing all of the blame and what is

going. it's going to be this this is going to do this to more conflict and more violence there is one way to end this and one way only negotiate a two state solution between the two parties and i actually would signal with gideon here a little bit or have a different take and i would say i do have hope that this is this is going to move forward we have israeli prime minister who expressed desire towards progress we have an american president who is very willing to put us in a president with whom i worked in the past who i know is very deeply committed to this excuse me because there are already but you're also disingenious lee skip the point now you've also completely not related to my point that apparently the leadership of the palestinian authority be our fight on have many times been offered supposedly what they want and haven't accepted it and so you know where are we with that the fact that people believe the jews don't belong in judea is a result of ethnic cleansing jews were ethnically cleansed from these places in one nine hundred forty eight when jordan then occupied these places now jordan to get didn't go and create a palestinian state fascinating over the p.l.o.

charter of one nine hundred sixty four the talks about liberating land isn't when israel controls these areas so there's a really big question mark here over it with the idea is to rid these areas of jews or create a palestinian state ok. they don't want their own state they've been offered quite a few times gideon why don't we go back to what everyone should agree upon and that is international law ok everybody can say their interpretation of history where jews belong where they don't belong where they might belong you know let's go to what we should all agree on inter national law resolution two for two now that should be a reference point for everyone in these negotiations but it seems not to be the case. you know it's not only about two full two it's about basic international law but for people like eve the international law is not nothing else about anti semitism and according to the international law all the settlements but all the settlements are criminals i criminalize let me finish let me finish i didn't

disappear that is almost certainly rather not a word yet and i feel i live it eve you had your chance to speak with gideon his chance to speak gideon continue to continue if not years settlers settlers have problem settlers have problems tolerance aggressive people or is aggressive people but anyhow the settlements a criminal a violation of the international law in the start there but according to israel is and has its own international law and these old explanation you will hear all kind of explanation including we just heard about ethnic cleansing i guess that he's rarely would be there to speak about ethnic cleansing after what we have done in forty eight i mean really there are no limits for anything israelis think about ethnic cleansing kicking away six hundred sawzall palestinians who live to then to a few jury camps yeah but this settler been themselves their own world they are

totally disconnected with reality they are they came only too late to be an alps the code for any settlement and they are a hell of a success they did anything possible they we do everything possible and we us it was them we those israelis who would like who would like to leave it adjusts to society in the society we are stuck with this obstacle ok if you want to reply to that. yes i absolutely do when israel was created in one thousand nine hundred eight all the people in israel jews and arabs as well all became citizens of the state however you didn't find any jews living in what the arabs conquered because as i said and i will stand by that they act ethnically cleanse the jews out which is why people now say that we don't belong in these places i'm very sorry that you don't has this tremendous hate for hatred for settlers it's very unfortunate we are some of the most law abiding people in the state as the mother of seven nobody can tell me that i don't want there to be peace we moved into these areas because after

the one nine hundred sixty seven war that was started against israel and that israel won israel offered to exchange all the lands before any jew had moved in exchange and exchange all of it for peace and were turned down by the arab world know that he's in no to regulation and. if they don't want it then we certainly do want it and we have made these thriving areas we've given the palestinians living their jobs and as a matter of fact my own father is a palestinian because before nine hundred forty eight the jews were the ones who were known as the palestinians and then israel which created and as i said both jews and arabs within israel became israelis and those refugee camps that were mentioned every single one of them without exception was started by arabs for arabs and are maintained by arabs and they have kept their people in disgusting conditions as a p.r. project against israel and that i think it's really what i did and i think there is a very boring for celebration idea to get out there people go ahead going to washington going i mean i will make three quick points one is look i mean i

personally and i think most of them do the ship does not deny the jewish connection to the land and it's unfortunate that we have someone like eve who then i get i think connection to the not but it's not about the connection to the right now it's about connecting states and the king of the future look i mean even view of history is one that i agree with and i believe i see the more serious historians would disagree with this is a virtue and create the sense of history but ultimately it doesn't matter what the method as far as i'm concerned is. how do you move to the future we can sit and debate the history over and over there you know if it were not reach an agreement everyone has their own narrative the question is what kind of future do you want to today what we see in the occupied territories is not as if tribes to show like you know a paradise of everyone's having jobs and everyone's having a great life what we're seeing right now is an occupation and frankly i do ok patient no matter how you were going to. spin it is unsustainable i don't accept it as a state of affairs let's stop scoring points to stop looking at history and creating

our own version of history let's look at the future how can we get to a situation where everyone's going to have to make compromises and ultimate enough together all right after a short break we'll continue our discussion on israeli settlements on the west bank stay with r.t. . if you. want . for the full story we've got. the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news makers on. showbiz that entertainment value it's an insult free to present high production

success grass and so. all of this is a way to solve this people's attention by using techniques that are sensitive sensitive now during this war we had nearly military entertainment. if.

welcome back to cross talk i'm peter lavelle to remind you that we're talking about the israeli palestinian conflict. but before let's see what russians think about this issue. construction in progress after a ten month official freeze bulldozers are working again across the west bank analysts around the world this may render stillborn there with unclear revive dialog between israel and palestinians recently about a set of poll last russians which side of the israeli palestinian conflict they sympathize with sixty four percent of the respondents did not take a side fourteen percent expressed sympathy to palestinians and just nine percent to israel despite the resumption of settlement building this israel the palestinian

peace process remains just that in progress back to peter ok gideon if i can go to you considering the settlements continue to be built on the west bank and there seems to be absolutely no political will in israel to stop it it will just continue what are the possibilities in your mind of just creating de facto a one state solution i mean because it seems it's going in that direction and what rights the palestinians would have in that one state. let's face reality we have already one state solution the occupation is part and parcel of israel over forty years the fact that it's an apartheid state the fake that there are two communities one was civil rights and the other was no civil rights whatsoever doesn't make any change to show the word for say than to say we had them okra see and to keep this. this is now for the last forty two years and for

sure if it were legal to be a two state solution it would be a one state solution but then they would become very rightly so and say ok you remain in your settlements dolan's eddie said just give civil rights to the palestinians all did to say that but as things are not human beings like you and they don't deserve the same rights but to this even israel will be able to react but with the meats that either we either mow crecy and then he's for all its citizens or it is an apartheid state and then his and will be treated as an apartheid state sure ok even an apartheid state that claims to be a democracy. israel is a democracy it's nowhere near an apartheid state and what hasn't been mentioned fascinatingly so in the show up to now is the terrorism is that when israel in ninety three signed the oslo accords and we gave the palestinian police force the guns because you know as they do today they say they run around and they do their

thing what we got in return were years and years of terrorism jews being blown up jews and arabs everybody being blown up in coffee shops on buses we left gaza we threw ten thousand jews out of their homes we transfer ten thousand jews not arabs but jews and destroy their communities and what we got in return was this terrorist state just south of tel aviv there not just threatens israel but it's apparently become a base for critical al-qaeda and all the joyful people in the world and so israelis aren't stupid and israelis more than anybody want to live in peace but we also understand we've put our hand to peace and yet we see textbooks that the little palestinian children are learning from they talk about one day replacing israel with palestine they talk about terrible things that they're judaism and all kinds of incitement when streets are named after terrorists in the palestinian authority than most israelis start thinking to themselves forget it i mean we've reached out our hands we're looking for peace and these are the peace camp the leftwing camp they get unless he represents has gotten smaller and smaller over the years than

people in his own camp have told him and i hear from myself unfortunately today that he actually aids and abets are enemies and so they're getting desperate it's very sad but most israelis who do not live where i live agree with what i say because they see that all our attempts at our overtures towards peace have been met with violence because ultimately the palestinians along with most of our neighbors don't want to live here in peace they want to destroy israel and israelis are not suicidal and we're not going to let that happen. i mean i really urge eve to go and updated information and she's really talking from the language of the eighty's things i've done most up to date looks to have i'm a senator and look at how the way they have been updated and more important to important that i would say if you look at i have not interrupted you please let me continue. if you look at israeli public opinion you will see that the majority of israelis actually do want to state solution a majority of israelis accept a solution that is based on the vision of the land between two states i think what

a visitor but i think is unfortunately inaccurate even in her own read of the israeli political system ultimately look i mean if you use the you referred to the oslo agreement and terrorism of course there were terrorism there were many many mistakes in the was the period i hope that we have all learned from them i know the palestinians have learned from them by creating this new leader constituted. security forces that do that are completely by israeli security officials the admission are doing an amazing job in terms of called the terrorism at the end of the day i want to go exactly what i was before there is a chance for peace you know i was in camp david i was in all these negotiations. there was never a full deal that was put there but we got close and we're getting closer by the day we know what the solution is and again if we have an israeli right wing prime minister who is saying the only way forward is a two state solution i think that's horrible where we have to move if this collapses of who said couldn't collapse and we're not going to move into this you know lovey does the everyone's living together in peace and harmony one state

division we're going to move into chaos we're going to move into violence we're going to move into a region of destabilisation so i really urge all of us who have a kid who care about the future of our kids and our kids' kids to look at how can we create a sustainable future for them and not keep on living the old enmities that we suffered from this is all of our live yours and maybe our politicians ok getting if i can go to you i'm netanyahu says he believes in a two state solution. second state the palestinian state would have to be demilitarized but that doesn't sound like what lieberman is saying what kind of future he's looking for i mean here's a man a foreign minister in the government that is says it's a negotiation serious negotiations and he goes to the united nations and just says it's a farce that we're these talks are going to go nowhere i mean what kind of message is that sending to the world i mean it's it really is a farce isn't it it's just creating creating facts on the ground running out the clock creating facts on the ground. it is

a farce and i must tell you i appreciate much more of a goalie of a man who say this rules rather than binge i mean it and yeah will try to fool the whole world himself and. there is no connection between what the ten yo say and what that does and we should judge him only about his deeds and what about his the career he's the only to please washington on to make peace between israel and washington but this is not the usual he's only way to be judged cheik what are the bulldozers doing on the ground and the bulldozers had started again to build new settlements which means that he didn't mean for a second but even though for a second to go for the two state solution he meant to continue to for the woods he meant to continue to fool the united states and finally the bluff was called by by

his foreign minister will just say the truce we are right to link a nation a list of a mystic government we have no intentions to do any peace was the palestinians ok eve you want to reply to that because that's what a great deal of the pain was forgetting go ahead go ahead but is anyone forgetting that there were there was a ten month free were not a thing moved and abbas didn't come forward until about two weeks before it expired and only when obama twisted his arm so you know i think i think b.b. has shown and i'm not thrilled with everything that he does but i think he has shown he definitely a willingness and it didn't happen so well you know what are we supposed to do with that you can't keep saying that it's about the settlements and it's about the settlements and ignoring all the issues that i have various now about the terrorism have just been completely ignored they did hills of duty in some area overlook tel aviv and easily if that becomes a base for a palestinian state alan gaza out of the promise that we have now in lebanon where we virtually have iran in our northern border via the crucible. israel cannot

afford to have another terrorist state and our narrow waist the whole business is like forty miles of white ok but nobody everyone just giving is platitudes about look towards tomorrow how the palestinians change do they want to live with israel in peace because no israeli is seeing that and i think given the track record of the last twenty years the burden of proof is now on them or we don't want to live through that period again where some of us didn't live through it and i've been to more funerals than i ever should have been in my entire life over what went on during those years and continues to go on would still go on if the i.d.f. wasn't stopping it and so you know and actually there isn't even an occupation anymore by the way all right ninety percent over ninety percent of the arabs in judea and samaria live under the palestinian authority rule gaye said it himself that there's a palestinian authority policeman running around so what is it you know everyone dances about these words on the one hand they say we commit genocide on the other hand they say there's a tremendous demographic problem and we have to give up land otherwise the arabs

will overwhelm us and we won't be democratic well for committing genocide then how come there's so many arabs and we have to give up land and i think it really it's you know the world audience is not that stupid and if things are pointed out that they will understand they will get it one lie is just bandied about after the other and it's really just a shame but israelis as i said israelis choose life israelis are creative who are doing wonderful things and we we will continue to do so and keep reaching out our hand for peace but with the proviso ok ok. only be a peace that israel defines again if i go to you in washington they hold a lot of the carnage just. who the israelis you know what their american friends stars yeah look i mean first of all just just to complete the fact that. most of the kind of things that on the palestinian authority but in a very very small amount of law and order in the urban areas that they cannot leave without this raid permission so let's not give towards the security concern. is

that even mentioned and they are ones that have to be dealt with in an agreement and we all know they're going to be no peace the unless security is dealt with but frankly i druther on the security issues believe israeli generals and i would even any other civilian on this matter and they say that there has been amazing strides in terms of security performance at the end of the day if he's doing is going to be difficult for everyone and that's why we need a third party the u.s. that will come cajole sometimes pressure sometimes award but push the sides towards what everyone knows is in their interest ultimately the no one can force a bass or netanyahu to give up their basic national rights and their basic positions but we do need a third party that i think states and there have been mistakes committed in the way that the u.s. has approached things but ultimately we see a real push from the americans we see cooperation from netanyahu and i don't care what the neighbors intentions are all right and i wasn't going to have you gentlemen you know we have run out of time i'm afraid i don't think the americans

are a good third party in all of this after the last thirty years many thanks my guest today in jerusalem tel aviv in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching a few darkie see you next time and remember prostitute. if. you want. to be soon which bright. sun from studio pressure inside.